On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 07:26 PM, Bob Bolch wrote:

VM/370 does not have EXEC2.

Some day, I will remember that.

?... Mark S.

--

On 10/27/22 19:51, Mark A. Stevens via groups.io wrote:

I am willing to host it here, gratis. I'd prefer it not be MediaWiki
(the "Wikipedia software" in particular, but I'll do that if that's
what people want.
groups.io, also has wiki space on groups.io, per Dave Wade.
/g/h390-vm/wiki

Suit yourself; I was just seeking to avoid further vendor lock-in.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 01:36 PM, Martin Scheffler wrote:

CMS HELP was based on XEDIT since VM/SP 1.
FILELIST arrived with VM/SP 2, EXEC 2 was used ( still EXEC 2 on LCM+L's VM/SP 5 but (compiled) REXX on z/VM 6.4).

REXX arrived with VM/SP 3, XEDIT received EXTRACT, Prefix Macro Support, Selective Line Editing (see ).

I think as a minimum we should approach VM/SP 3 XEDIT compatibility.

Martin

I think SP3 compatibility would be a good start. BREXX still has a problem with parsing its command line, so that will be a challenge, in and of itself. Would support of EXEC2 be present, until BREXX is fixed?

I don't know where XEDIT lives in memory, when invoked. Does putting it, or part of it in a DisContiguous Saved Segment (DCSS) hurt or help? Was it in the CMS DCSS since SP 1?

?... Mark S.

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 05:26 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:

I am willing to host it here, gratis. I'd prefer it not be MediaWiki (the "Wikipedia software" in particular, but I'll do that if that's what people want.

groups.io, also has wiki space on groups.io, per Dave Wade.

/g/h390-vm/wiki

I just tweaked the settings so its visible to non-members, members can edit.

Dave

I have recently added to the FAQ, the question about IPL with CKPT, just as another example. We could start there, and look for something else, if it doesn't suit our needs.

?... Mark S.

On 10/26/22 16:18, Bertram Moshier wrote:

I love the idea of a WIKI for VM/CE.
I guess we need to find a place to host our own VM/CE Wikipedia.? I found:
<>? and
<>
We just need three things:
1) Wikipedia software
2) Hosting place
3) People to run, maintain, and update the VM/CE Wiki

I am willing to host it here, gratis. I'd prefer it not be MediaWiki (the "Wikipedia software" in particular, but I'll do that if that's what people want.

-Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 10:36 PM, Bob Bolch wrote:

I am trying to figure out if the EE implementation has (or can be made to have) the execution characteristics necessary to implement REXX macro support.

see ?

The ALL command is implemented in a macro style as proof of concept.
Note that ? extern int execCmd(...)?? calls itself through the ALL command.


https://github.com/SanLorenzo59/mecaff/blob/690eae7bd8233f72b03f2c48d971f81f5ba365b4/cms/eecmds.c#L918

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 06:02 PM, Mark A. Stevens wrote:

I for one would rather see/use the code than look at a screen shot. The difference between Looking at the candy behind the glass, rather than actually having some. :-)

Prepare for a rough ride ... EE$DRISK V1.3.0_221027-0259

This is a construction site full of pot holes:
File: PROFILE? EE?????? A1??????? RECFM: V LRECL: 125(125) Lines:?? 100 Current:???? 6?
?====>??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
???? 5 FileName FileType FM Format?? Size? Line Col???????? 5 file(s) in ring???????? ?
====> PROFILE? EE?????? A1 V? 125??? 100???? 6?? 0?? Unchanged??????????????????????? ?
??? 1 TABS???? EE$INTRN A0 F?? 80????? 0???? 0?? 0?? *INTERNAL*, Unchanged??????????? ?
??? 2 DEFAULTS EE$INTRN A0 F?? 24????? 0???? 0?? 0?? *INTERNAL*, Unchanged??????????? ?
??? 3 HISTORY? EE$INTRN A0 V? 122????? 2???? 0?? 0?? *INTERNAL*, * * * Modified * * * ?
??? 4 MACROS?? EE$INTRN A0 V? 255????? 0???? 0?? 0?? *INTERNAL*, Unchanged??????????? ?
????? ....+....1....+....2....+....3....+....4....+....5....+....6....+....7....+....8.
??? 1 set case m i??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 2 number on?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 3 scale top?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 4 cmdline top???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 5 pf 12 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 6 pf 11 ?+??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 7???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 8 set color * green none nohigh ps0?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
??? 9 set color arrow turq blink????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 10 set color cmd pink????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 11 set color curline red underline???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 12 set color prefix blue?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 13 set color cprefix white???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 14???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 15 set color highlight yellow none???????????????????????????????????????????????? ?
?? 16 set color chighlight yellow underline?????????????????????????????????????????? ?
02=RingNext 03=Quit 06=SpltJ 07=PgUp 08=PgDw 10=PI 11=ClrCmd 12=Recall??????????????? ?
Unchanged????????????????????????????????????? EE$DRISK V1.3.0_221027-0259,? 5 File(s)?
????????????????????
For development purposes, the editor has 4 internal files in the ring.
Use the?? CANCEL?? command to close the editor.

New feature? Ringlist:? R RR RINGlist
R 3? would switch to ? HISTORY? EE$INTRN A0

SYSPROF EE A exists, but is empty.
PROFILE EE A is listed below:

set case m i????????????????????????? ?
number on???????????????????????????? ?
scale top???????????????????????????? ?
cmdline top?????????????????????????? ?
pf 12 ??????????????????????????????? ?
pf 11 ?+????????????????????????????? ?
set color * green none nohigh ps0???? ?
set color arrow turq blink??????????? ?
set color cmd pink??????????????????? ?
set color curline red underline?????? ?
set color prefix blue???????????????? ?
set color cprefix white?????????????? ?
set color highlight yellow none?????? ?
set color chighlight yellow underline ?
set color shadow pink???????????????? ?
set color scale blue????????????????? ?
set color id??? blue????????????????? ?
set color stata blue????????????????? ?
set color info? pink????????????????? ?
set color tof?? pink????????????????? ?
set color ctof?? red revvideo???????? ?
colour msgline red none?????????????? ?

Play with the colors, current z/VM doc might help a little.

The ALL command works (Warning: poor performance), but the resulting SET SCOPE DISPLAY is not obeyed yet.
You can enter SET DISPLAY manually.

Remember: Use the?? CANCEL?? command to close the editor, SAVE or QQUIT modified files if necessary.

The following files and folders have been uploaded to the Files area of the [email protected] group.

• /MECAFF tools: fixes and features/EE$RISKY.VMARC

By: Martin Scheffler <San-Lorenzo@...>

Description:
use at your own risk !!! *** pre-alpha preview *** EE$DRISK V1.3.0_221027-0259

On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 06:37 PM, rvjansen@... wrote:

ability to make fullscreen apps

CMS HELP was based on XEDIT since VM/SP 1.
FILELIST arrived with VM/SP 2, EXEC 2 was used ( still EXEC 2 on LCM+L's VM/SP 5 but (compiled) REXX on z/VM 6.4).

REXX arrived with VM/SP 3, XEDIT received EXTRACT, Prefix Macro Support, Selective Line Editing (see ).

I think as a minimum we should approach VM/SP 3 XEDIT compatibility.

Martin

开云体育

Nothing really modern in the usual sense but I think about the ability to make fullscreen apps with it - don’t know how modern that exactly is, and driven by the fact that getting IOS3270 to work and integrate with the Rexx variable pool without the source would be hard . I probably meant things looking and feeling the same as VM/ESA or z/VM. Where the FILEL command probably already could be done in Rexx.

Dave Wade wrote:

Fish wrote:

Joe Monk wrote:

[...]

But here's the real question ... why is hercules
seeing/reporting it?

Huh?! Why WOULDN'T it?!

Because the real hardware wouldn't. Pretty sure I never
saw anything like this on any 43xx or 9370 machine I used,
and for a great percentage of the time I was the only user
and I was sat at the system console...

I believe Harold Grovesteen explained this quite satisfactorily so I won't bother to. I'd just be repeating myself and him too.

(And would only end up using WAY too many words to do it with too! BOY I can sure ramble on at times, can't I?! Sorry folks! It's a personal failing of mine that's hard to control!)

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

开云体育

I quite like??

Harold Grovesteen wrote:

Real hardware has no mechanism to report to an operator any
interruption. REAL hardware only reports interruptions to
the running program, an OS in this case. So, no, real
hardware will not report anything.

However, the Hercules "hardware" DOES have the ability to
report to an operator some interruptions. Hence the whole
discussion around the OSTAILOR configuration option.

That is why you did not see it with your real hardware of
the past.

EXACTLY!

Thank you, Harold!

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...

Dave Wade wrote:

[...]

So its pointless looking at the PSW Hercules reports to
see the Machine State that MVS believes it has created.
What is reported is the fake VM has created…

Correct. Due to the way VM works its magic, the PSWs that the real hardware (i.e. Hercules) uses (dispatches?) -- which is always what VM itself uses (dispatches, since its ultimately in control of (what it thinks is) the real hardware) -- is never what the VM guest (i.e. MVS in this case) thinks is (or sees as) ITS "real" PSW. What MVS always "sees" is what it THINKS is a "real" PSW, but it's actually a virtualized PSW that VM fakes (emulates) for it.

The PSWs that VM *itself* uses however (and thus what Hercules reports on the HMC), are the actual real hardware PSW that VM used to dispatch its VM guest with.

So in the context of our original discussion, the PSWs that Hercules was reporting were the REAL hardware PSWs that VM itself dispatched its MVS guest with.

Which, as explained, were causing REAL (bona-fide) Protection Exception program interrupts.

MVS might not have been "seeing" any Protection Exception program interrupts, I don't know (I'm guessing it probably wasn't; I'm guessing that VM was intercepting them and dealing with them itself), but the Protection Exception program interrupts WERE actually occurring on the real hardware.

On real hardware (i.e. on real IBM machines), these Protection Exceptions were actually occurring, but were not being "reported" (displayed) anywhere that the machine operator/user could see. But they were certainly happening!

On Hercules however, as a courtesy (i.e. in order to be helpful), whenever certain "unexpected" program interrupts occur, it DOES report them. It DOES display them.

And Hercules was reporting all of these many Protection Exception program interrupts that were occurring because its OSTAILOR setting (or more technically, its "pgmtrace" setting(*)) was telling Hercules that they SHOULD be reported (displayed).

You won't "see" them on real IBM hardware (because IBM hardware doesn't bother to "report" them), but you *WILL* see them on Hercules!

As long as your OSTAILOR (i.e. pgmtrace(*)) says to do so of course.

I hope that all makes sense now.


---------------------
(*) The "OSTAILOR" configuration file statement is just a more convenient (more compact) way of specifying a long series of "PGMTRACE" commands that define WHICH program interrupts should be reported and which ones SHOULDN'T be reported. Code 11 program interrupts for example (Page Faults) occur all the time and are thus largely uninteresting to the Hercules user, so they're typically marked to not be reported. (All of our predefined OSTAILOR setting specify a pgmtrace value with code 11 marked as "don't report".)

OTHER program interrupts however (such as Protection Exceptions, Addressing Exceptions, Specification Exceptions, OPERATION EXCEPTIONS(!), etc) are marked as "DON'T filter!" (i.e. "Please report!"), since they almost always indicative of a serious programming error.

And USUALLY (not always, but *usually*) the Hercules user who is running Hercules wants to know whether their software is operating correctly or messing up. So Hercules helpfully reports such occurrences -- according to what it was told to report (which is controlled via its PGMTRACE setting of which the OSTAILOR statement is simply a more convenient way of specifying).

Hope that helps!

--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
Software Development Laboratories

mail: fish@...