The first post is moderated by default for all groups.io groups.? Spammers will generally be caught at the first post. ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Andrew VK1DA
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2019 7:31 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ft817] Group Settings ? The settings fro the group still include the one that allows anyone to join, without moderator approval. ?This is generally not a good idea as it means spammers can join the group and get their messages out to all group members freely. ?
Mark, this is worth changing. ?
73 Andrew VK1DA/VK2UH?
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The settings for the group still include the one that allows anyone to join, without moderator approval. ?This is generally not a good idea as it means spammers can join the group and get their messages out to all group members freely. ?
Mark, this is worth changing. ?
73 Andrew VK1DA/VK2UH
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Re: Elecraft XV144 Transverter with optional oven for trade
I have the a transverter to trade sorry for the confusion?
Joe n7qpp
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Re: Elecraft XV144 Transverter with optional oven for trade
Ummmmmm – you have an FT-817 to trade for a VX-144?? Of you have a VX-144 to trade for an FT-817? ? I am guessing you have the elecraft and want the Yaesu, but it isn’t 100% clear! ? Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC. El Paso, Texas - DM61rt. SOTA W5T-Texas Association Manager. NA-SOTA info is at:? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of joe camilli
Sent: Sunday, November 10, 2019 16:53 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ft817] Elecraft XV144 Transverter with optional oven for trade ? I was wondering if anyone in the group was interested in trading 817 for?Elecraft XV144 Transverter with optional oven. If interested contact me n7qppatnfarldotorg
Thanks Joe n7qpp
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Elecraft XV144 Transverter with optional oven for trade
I was wondering if anyone in the group was interested in trading 817 for?Elecraft XV144 Transverter with optional oven. If interested contact me n7qppatnfarldotorg
Thanks Joe n7qpp
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
Just a reminder that the "official" Yaesu TXCO-9 is included in the new FT-818.
Ken, N2VIP
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On Nov 8, 2019, at 19:26, Greg <greg_winters@...> wrote:
The cost-effective choice is to lock the transverter. But since I will already have the GPS reference for the transverters I can either 1) keep the stock crystal at around 4ppm, 2) spend $100 on a true TCXO-9 at around 0.5ppm, or 3) GPS lock the rig at unknown but perhaps not prohibitive cost. For most ops, #2 is more of a nice-to-have.
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
Heh heh heh – as usual, the real answer is – IT DEPENDS. ? There are a few manufacturers of various transverters.? Price-wise, they can go from below $100 to several $-hundred.? And in most cases, you get what you pay for.? Good designs and good components are not cheap. ? Truth, FT-817 frequency accuracy with the stock OSC is less of a problem than frequency drift.? The TCXO-9 will be more stable.? Perhaps more accurate, but the stock OSC can be close enough.? Temperature and voltage changes would be my main worry. ? You’re never going to be portable with the accuracy and stability of a home station.? So many other factors must be considered, as in temperature rise or fall throughout the day, equipment temperature fluctuations due to heavy or light use, voltage fluctuations during TX/RX transients, and as the battery decays, and a host of other minor points that all add up. ? And of course if you are talking EME or SAT, Doppler will also be a consideration.? And Doppler shift is greater with higher frequencies. ? No matter what the cost, the equipment you actually have is better than the best gear that you can’t afford.? Use what you have, and good luck. ? Mike – KD5KC -- El Paso -- Texas. ? The canyons are calling, colorful and deep.? But I have promises to keep. And miles to go still in my Jeep...?? And miles to go still in my Jeep... ? 
? ADVENTURE:? The respectful pursuit of trouble. ? ? ? ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of nz8r@...
Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 17:24 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ft817] GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter ? Pardon the inquiry.
I am interested in learning a bit more about upper microwave transverters and their operation.? ?
Do these typically mix the radio (say at 144mhz) as an IF to a multiplied oscillator??
If this is true, the errors would be? something like below:
FT-817 error? ? ? ? ? ? ?=? Ferror
Base oscillator error = Oerror
MultError? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= Oerror * N
Total Error? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =Terr
Osc's can self start pretty reliably up to about 100mhz....
Therefore N needs to be 100 to 150,? such a large N means Oerror needs to be really small--probably as good as technology will permit.
In the end this is Terr =? Ferror + MultError
It seems the Ferror is really tiny and MultError is huge.? ?
In other words, it seems to me the FT-817 errors are not relevant.
What am I missing as to spending money on fixing the FT817 error,? when 100 times the impact is in the Oscillator errors on the Transverter?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
nz8r
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
True, locking the transverter has mathematically more impact on the stability of the whole system, rather than locking just the 817. For most ops, locking the rig isn't necessary at all.?
The cost-effective choice is to lock the transverter. But since I will already have the GPS reference for the transverters I can either 1) keep the stock crystal at around 4ppm, 2) spend $100 on a true TCXO-9 at around 0.5ppm,
or 3) GPS lock the rig at unknown but perhaps not prohibitive cost. For most ops, #2 is more of a nice-to-have.
However, many transverters do not have an option for GPS/10MHz locking, and its way overkill for most use. My old DEMI 222 (28Mhz IF) unit is one of them.?
Its primarily in digital modes and things like EME on these upper, upper bands where it gets more critical. It may also be possible to get significant phase noise improvement over
the TCXO-9 by running an external reference.?
Since I will lock most of transverters with a GPS reference anyway, its tempting to lock the rig as well. Those who have report accuracy down to 1Hz and stability is often? better than 0.5 ppb.?
I plan on some SOTA microwave activity as well as VUCC chasing on microwave bands. The temperature environments won't be shack-ideal, so being very close on frequency and eliminating as much drift as I can is key, especially above 10GHz.?
de Greg, K3RW
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Pardon the inquiry.
I am interested in learning a bit more about upper microwave transverters and their operation.? ?
Do these typically mix the radio (say at 144mhz) as an IF to a multiplied oscillator??
If this is true, the errors would be? something like below:
FT-817 error? ? ? ? ? ? ?=? Ferror
Base oscillator error = Oerror
MultError? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= Oerror * N
Total Error? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? = Terr
Osc's can self start pretty reliably up to about 100mhz....
Therefore N needs to be 100 to 150,? such a large N means Oerror needs to be really small--probably as good as technology will permit.
In the end this is Terr =? Ferror + MultError
It seems the Ferror is really tiny and MultError is huge.? ?
In other words, it seems to me the FT-817 errors are not relevant.
What am I missing as to spending money on fixing the FT817 error,? when 100 times the impact is in the Oscillator errors on the Transverter?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
nz8r
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
You need something like the below?
Those are no longer made. But other versions may exist.?
Maybe see if mini kits will make you one?
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On 9 Nov 2019, at 11:54 am, bob curry via Groups.Io <kc3vo@...> wrote:
? A little guidance is in order here, because the BIGGEST frequency errors are likely a result of the TRANSVERTERS LOCAL OSCILLATOR, when operating microwave transverters into a TCXO equipped FT-817. If the bare FT-817 is stable ns accurte enough for whatever you are trying to do, but with the transverters you have drift and instability or accuracy problems, you need a more curtesy ns table L.O. in the transverters, NOT an improved FT-817 or other I.F. Radio! (Lock the TRANSVERTERS oscillator!) 73, KC3VO.
On Nov 8, 2019, at 7:23 PM, nz8r@... wrote: Pardon the inquiry.
I am interested in learning a bit more about upper microwave transverters and their operation.? ?
Do these typically mix the radio (say at 144mhz) as an IF to a multiplied oscillator??
If this is true, the errors would be? something like below:
FT-817 error? ? ? ? ? ? ?=? Ferror
Base oscillator error = Oerror
MultError? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= Oerror * N
Total Error? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =Terr
Osc's can self start pretty reliably up to about 100mhz....
Therefore N needs to be 100 to 150,? such a large N means Oerror needs to be really small--probably as good as technology will permit.
In the end this is Terr =? Ferror + MultError
It seems the Ferror is really tiny and MultError is huge.? ?
In other words, it seems to me the FT-817 errors are not relevant.
What am I missing as to spending money on fixing the FT817 error,? when 100 times the impact is in the Oscillator errors on the Transverter?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
nz8r
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
I operate 10.368 Ghz. Using a DB6NT transverter and my FT-817 with factory TCXO, and practically ALL frequency error and drift comes NOT from the radio, but the L.O. In my transverter, instead!-Don't go on a "Wild Goose Chase" and waste you money, fixing a RADIO problem that doe not exist, in most cases!-73, kc3vo.
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On Nov 8, 2019, at 7:38 PM, Greg < greg_winters@...> wrote:
I don't have the TCXO-9 yet, but only would get the genuine one for sure.
But if I GPS-locked the 817, then I wouldn't need the high-stability crystal, unless I could not lock to GPS for some reason.
Greg
Do you have the real Yaesu TCXO-9, or the Chinese copy?? If you have the chinese copy, please toss it, don’t subject the HF band to any more noise.? If you have the real Yaesu TCXO-9, put it in and try it.? It might be close enough.?
I gave mine a very careful tweak on 70cm-SSB, and all my transverters are very close.
?
Mike – KD5KC -- El Paso -- Texas.
?
The canyons are calling, colorful and deep.? But I have promises to keep.
And miles to go still in my Jeep...?? And miles to go still in my Jeep...
?
<image003.jpg>
?
ADVENTURE:? The respectful pursuit of trouble.
?
?
?
?
?
I have the stock oscillaror now. If I put in the TCXO-9, do I need to calibrate it, or is it just plug and play?
Hello Greg,
My xverters are not GPS locked, but I do have the TCXO in my 817. ?My guess is if you lock your PLL on your xverter the 817 will be close enough for what you need to do. ?I would ?think for even JT-65 it would be close enough. ?I just picked up a Kuhne PLL
for my 76 GHz xverter, and I plan on using a 10 MHz OCXO on that.
Good luck and 73,
Mark ?WB8TGY?
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
A little guidance is in order here, because the BIGGEST frequency errors are likely a result of the TRANSVERTERS LOCAL OSCILLATOR, when operating microwave transverters into a TCXO equipped FT-817. If the bare FT-817 is stable ns accurte enough for whatever you are trying to do, but with the transverters you have drift and instability or accuracy problems, you need a more curtesy ns table L.O. in the transverters, NOT an improved FT-817 or other I.F. Radio! (Lock the TRANSVERTERS oscillator!) 73, KC3VO.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Nov 8, 2019, at 7:23 PM, nz8r@... wrote: Pardon the inquiry.
I am interested in learning a bit more about upper microwave transverters and their operation.? ?
Do these typically mix the radio (say at 144mhz) as an IF to a multiplied oscillator??
If this is true, the errors would be? something like below:
FT-817 error? ? ? ? ? ? ?=? Ferror
Base oscillator error = Oerror
MultError? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= Oerror * N
Total Error? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =Terr
Osc's can self start pretty reliably up to about 100mhz....
Therefore N needs to be 100 to 150,? such a large N means Oerror needs to be really small--probably as good as technology will permit.
In the end this is Terr =? Ferror + MultError
It seems the Ferror is really tiny and MultError is huge.? ?
In other words, it seems to me the FT-817 errors are not relevant.
What am I missing as to spending money on fixing the FT817 error,? when 100 times the impact is in the Oscillator errors on the Transverter?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
nz8r
|
Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
I don't have the TCXO-9 yet, but only would get the genuine one for sure.
But if I GPS-locked the 817, then I wouldn't need the high-stability crystal, unless I could not lock to GPS for some reason.
Greg
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Do you have the real Yaesu TCXO-9, or the Chinese copy?? If you have the chinese copy, please toss it, don’t subject the HF band to any more noise.? If you have the real Yaesu TCXO-9, put it in and try it.? It might be close enough.?
I gave mine a very careful tweak on 70cm-SSB, and all my transverters are very close.
?
Mike – KD5KC -- El Paso -- Texas.
?
The canyons are calling, colorful and deep.? But I have promises to keep.
And miles to go still in my Jeep...?? And miles to go still in my Jeep...
?
?
ADVENTURE:? The respectful pursuit of trouble.
?
?
?
?
?
I have the stock oscillaror now. If I put in the TCXO-9, do I need to calibrate it, or is it just plug and play?
Hello Greg,
My xverters are not GPS locked, but I do have the TCXO in my 817. ?My guess is if you lock your PLL on your xverter the 817 will be close enough for what you need to do. ?I would ?think for even JT-65 it would be close enough. ?I just picked up a Kuhne PLL
for my 76 GHz xverter, and I plan on using a 10 MHz OCXO on that.
Good luck and 73,
Mark ?WB8TGY?
|
Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
Pardon the inquiry.
I am interested in learning a bit more about upper microwave transverters and their operation.? ?
Do these typically mix the radio (say at 144mhz) as an IF to a multiplied oscillator??
If this is true, the errors would be? something like below:
FT-817 error? ? ? ? ? ? ?=? Ferror
Base oscillator error = Oerror
MultError? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?= Oerror * N
Total Error? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? =Terr
Osc's can self start pretty reliably up to about 100mhz....
Therefore N needs to be 100 to 150,? such a large N means Oerror needs to be really small--probably as good as technology will permit.
In the end this is Terr =? Ferror + MultError
It seems the Ferror is really tiny and MultError is huge.? ?
In other words, it seems to me the FT-817 errors are not relevant.
What am I missing as to spending money on fixing the FT817 error,? when 100 times the impact is in the Oscillator errors on the Transverter?
Thanks in advance,
Greg
nz8r
|
Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
Do you have the real Yaesu TCXO-9, or the Chinese copy?? If you have the chinese copy, please toss it, don’t subject the HF band to any more noise.? If you have the real Yaesu TCXO-9, put it in and try it.? It might be close enough.? I gave mine a very careful tweak on 70cm-SSB, and all my transverters are very close. ? Mike – KD5KC -- El Paso -- Texas. ? The canyons are calling, colorful and deep.? But I have promises to keep. And miles to go still in my Jeep...?? And miles to go still in my Jeep... ? 
? ADVENTURE:? The respectful pursuit of trouble. ? ? ? ?
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Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of Greg Sent: Friday, November 8, 2019 12:20 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [ft817] GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter ? I have the stock oscillaror now. If I put in the TCXO-9, do I need to calibrate it, or is it just plug and play?
Hello Greg,
My xverters are not GPS locked, but I do have the TCXO in my 817. ?My guess is if you lock your PLL on your xverter the 817 will be close enough for what you need to do. ?I would ?think for even JT-65 it would be close enough. ?I just picked up a Kuhne PLL for my 76 GHz xverter, and I plan on using a 10 MHz OCXO on that.
Good luck and 73,
Mark ?WB8TGY?
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Re: GPS lock the FT-817 for transverter
Thanks for the reply.
I have the stock oscillaror now. If I put in the TCXO-9, do I need to calibrate it, or is it just plug and play?
Greg, K3RW
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Show quoted text
Hello Greg,
My xverters are not GPS locked, but I do have the TCXO in my 817. ?My guess is if you lock your PLL on your xverter the 817 will be close enough for what you need to do. ?I would ?think for even JT-65 it would be close enough. ?I just picked up a Kuhne PLL
for my 76 GHz xverter, and I plan on using a 10 MHz OCXO on that.
Good luck and 73,
Mark ?WB8TGY?
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Greetings FT 817 group.
LU2IP - Sergio
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Thank you very much for the summary! Just what the doctor ordered.
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 1:06 PM Mike Olbrisch < mike-2020@...> wrote: Yes - sir.? For the past few years some of us knew Yahoo was "changing" and Yahoo Groups would be going away.? Some of us urged group owners to make the move to here ().? some did, and some didn't.? Back then, there was a FREE option. A couple of weeks ago it was announced that within several weeks Yahoo Groups would be shut down.? So now it is a major scramble for owners still in Yahoo Groups to make the move.? And Groups.IO is swamped with requests.? I understand that now there is a "FEE" of something around $100 to make the move. This group made it under the wire.? For the FEE I guess. From this day forward, you'll be sending E-mail to this group as [email protected].? NOT at yahoo groups anymore. Vy73 -- Mike -- KD5KC.
----------------------------------------- From: "Manny Rodriguez" To: [email protected]Cc: Sent: Thursday November 7 2019 9:27:40AM Subject: Re: [ft817] Group Settings Excuse?my ignorance, but did this group move away from yahoo into some other service? Apologies in advance, just gathering my bearings now...
_N4JOO
Manny? I just had a quick glance at the Group settings and noticed the following :
?Subscriptions to this group do not require approval from the moderators.
I suspect that the group owner will want to change this to require that new subscribers to the group do require approval, in the interest of keeping out spammers ??
Cheers
Michael VE3WMB?
-- Manny Rodriguez
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-- Manny Rodriguez
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Re: good to see the move - longtime ft817 user
Bill, the 818 was a big nothing burger.? It was mostly because some of the parts in the 817 became unobtanium.? The specs are pretty much the same.? They did include a better battery, but still not as good as the after-market batteries available.? They now include the TCXO-9, but increased the price to reflect that addition.? Unless you are running transverters at micro-wave freqs. the TCXO-9 really isn't necessary. All the hype preceding the actual release was amusing.? I imagine some were totally let down after the release? I didn't let myself get carried away, "wait and see" was my thought.
In my opinion, the 818 is worse than the 817.? They added a 6-watt high power.? Do the math and you'll see the difference between 5 and 6 watts is very little on the air.? But it is a 20% increase in battery consumption.? WHY? Furthermore, to make room for the 6-watt level, they removed the 0.5 watt setting.? This 1/2-watt setting was wonderful for those of us who run transverters.? WHY again? There are many many many WX radios that will run for days on two AAA-batteries, the 817/818 would be a waste in that respect as the RX consumption was not improved.? My vote is for tighter passbands on 2m and 70cm, better for those of us who do weak-signal V/UNF from noisy mountaintops.? There is no award for worked all pagers. The more recent news about the pending new ICOM may actually do what the KX3 failed to do, that is to compete with the FT-817 across the board.? Many of us are watching and waiting....? "Wait and see".... Vy73 -- Mike -- KD5KC.
----------------------------------------- From: "Gigu chan" To: [email protected]Cc: Sent: Thursday November 7 2019 10:15:11AM Subject: Re: [ft817] good to see the move - longtime ft817 user I didn’t know that there was an”818”? thanks for the heads up…. Gig? N2gig ?
From: [email protected] <ft817@groupsio> On Behalf Of b b via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, November 7, 2019 06:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: [ft817] good to see the move - longtime ft817 user ? good to see the move... long-time ft817 user (just sold my two old ones), and now using an ft-818 (same rig in many ways, just slightly updated)...
i've been trying to get rid of my boat anchors, and have for the most part... now using some more modern SDRs, but just can't leave the ft-81X form factor...
it is quite remarkable that after nearly 20 years, no manufacturer has come up with a rig to match it...
and still no NOAA WX - LOL! (but that's OK, as maritime HF WX-fax works FB)
bill, kg4zqz
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Re: After move test message
I don't mean to launch a trend from Marty's message, but I expect others will be doing the same - just making sure I have the format and addressing correct to post to the new list also....
SW
On Thu, Nov 7, 2019 at 11:28 AM Marty Hartwell < mhartwe@...> wrote: Hi All
Since I was one asking about the move before it completed.
I thought I would post to make sure I have the address correct
in the email server Thunderbird on my PC and to show that I indeed
did make it.
A big thank you to all involved in making this happen for us.
Marty kd8bj
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Bob Headrick
Andrew VK1DA
Terry L. Morris