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--- In FT817@y..., julian@t... wrote:

--- In FT817@y..., "Demetre Valaris - SV1UY" <sv1uy@s...> wrote:
I did try a coaxial balun. It made it even harder to get a match,
because the antenna could not use the coax shield and radio as
additional ground plane. I dispensed with the coaxial balun because

I

decided it was a workaround for a problem that should not exist if
the antenna was set up with an adequate ground plane.

How do you manage with the MP-1 attached to the 817 chassis? A
coaxial choke is no use because the ground of the antenna and the
radio case are directly connected.

Hi Julian,

I honestly do not know why the coaxial balun does not work for you.
I followed what N2CKH suggested ().

When I mount the MP-1 on the FT-817, I do not use any coaxial at all.
I have made a threaded hole on the left heatsink of the FT-817 and
screw the MP-1 base there. Check Files - Antennas - MP-1 and you will
see how is it done. I just use a short jumper with 2 banana plugs on
either side.

Hope this helps.

73 de Demetre SV1UY

--- In FT817@y..., "Demetre Valaris - SV1UY" <sv1uy@s...> wrote:

[snip]

As for your difficulty in tuning the MP-1, have you ever tried a
coaxial balun? It works for me and when I move my body near it

there

is no SWR change. Without the balun yes I had problems.

I did try a coaxial balun. It made it even harder to get a match,
because the antenna could not use the coax shield and radio as
additional ground plane. I dispensed with the coaxial balun because I
decided it was a workaround for a problem that should not exist if
the antenna was set up with an adequate ground plane.

How do you manage with the MP-1 attached to the 817 chassis? A
coaxial choke is no use because the ground of the antenna and the
radio case are directly connected.

Also I never
use the tripod. I have not found it necessary to use it up to now!!

When I mount my MP-1 directly on the radio with either a screw on

the

old mount bolted on the heatsink or using the new mount that screws
on the side of the FT-817, I have no problem in getting a low SWR

on

any band between 40 and 10 meters using either the 4 X 10 foot
radials or even one tuned radial trailing on the ground. I still

have

a problem obtaining a low SWR on 80 meters but I believe that if I
make one or more long radials I will manage to tune it.

If only I could find the solution to this. I can make the SWR change
wildly on 20m just by bringing my hand close to the radio.

Julian, G4ILO

Try the FT-817 FAQ list.

Hello all,

Has anyone found a fix or cure to this problem? I get quite a few
birdies on both VHF and UHF bands on my FT-817 when I use the rubber
duck antenna, and some are also present when you use an external
antenna or no antenna at all. Same thing happens when I put a 50 OHM
terminator on the BNC connector.

Has YAESU acknowledged this problem yet?

Has anyone noticed this problem or is it just me?

73 de Demetre SV1UY

--- In FT817@y..., julian@t... wrote:

Demetre,

Have you actually done A/B comparisons quickly switching between

the

two, or only used the antennas at different times? I have done A/B
comparisons using the two antenna positions of the K2 and never

found

a situation where the signals on the MP-1 were better.

Also, I can't say the MP-1 is easy to tune. Leaving aside the fact
that I can't get a good match for a moment, the coil tuning is very
sharp on the higher bands and it is hard to return the coil to a
previously determined setting, compared to selecting a tap and
pushing in the whip a previously noted amount as can be done with

the

ATX.

Julian, G4ILO

Hi Julian,

Yes I have made A/B comparisons and I find the MP-1 superior on TX.
My friend G0EHX and G4MSF were the receiving stations when we made
those tests and they can tell you too. They heard me at least 2 S
points lower on the ATX. As I said before, I like both and I am
keeping both antennas. The ATX is cute and very convenient. The MP-1
is a better performer. The W3FF PORTABLE DIPOLE is of course much
better than all, but the least convenient.

As for your difficulty in tuning the MP-1, have you ever tried a
coaxial balun? It works for me and when I move my body near it there
is no SWR change. Without the balun yes I had problems. Also I never
use the tripod. I have not found it necessary to use it up to now!!

When I mount my MP-1 directly on the radio with either a screw on the
old mount bolted on the heatsink or using the new mount that screws
on the side of the FT-817, I have no problem in getting a low SWR on
any band between 40 and 10 meters using either the 4 X 10 foot
radials or even one tuned radial trailing on the ground. I still have
a problem obtaining a low SWR on 80 meters but I believe that if I
make one or more long radials I will manage to tune it.

I do understand your frustration and I hope what I just said might
help you to tackle the problem because I find it a really nice
antenna.

73 de Demetre SV1UY

Demetre,

Have you actually done A/B comparisons quickly switching between the
two, or only used the antennas at different times? I have done A/B
comparisons using the two antenna positions of the K2 and never found
a situation where the signals on the MP-1 were better.

Also, I can't say the MP-1 is easy to tune. Leaving aside the fact
that I can't get a good match for a moment, the coil tuning is very
sharp on the higher bands and it is hard to return the coil to a
previously determined setting, compared to selecting a tap and
pushing in the whip a previously noted amount as can be done with the
ATX.

Julian, G4ILO

Hi Tim
Can you tell me, how is ist with the ground?

Ist is usable to grounded the SG239 or is it enough to grounded with the
ft817?

73 HB9JBZ, Dan (excuse my english)

While at Dayton I could not find any vendor with a Z11 for sale(all sold
out by late Friday). However, one of the vendors tipped me on to the new

SGC

tuner(SGC239). Not wishing to leave empty handed I picked one up and since
yesterday was a holiday in Canada had a chance to "play" with it.

It seems to work surprisingly well. I used a 18' length of wire and a
counterpoise and was able to match all bands. It draws about 250ma on tune

so

will have to figure out some form of battery/power supply for travel. Not

a

bad option for an auto tuner.

Tim VE6SH

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I would expect the MP-1 to work quite well in a mobile set-up if it
is provided with a decent ground to the vehicle body. All the
problems I have experienced suggest that they are caused by
inadequate ground coupling which cannot be provided by four bits of
insulated wire. A product that is designed for portable use should
work in that situation out of the box. I'm afraid my experience
contradicts your glowing testimonial. Sorry.

Julian, G4ILO

--- In FT817@y..., "KQ6XA" <xtalradio@a...> wrote:

I have the Superantennas MP-1 with the FT-817 mounting bracket and
all the other accessories.

The MP-1 is probably the most versatile, and efficient whip antenna

I

have ever used for multi-band HF Pedestrian Mobile operation. Using
the stainless steel tip and assembled for base-loading, the
combination makes a very durable backpacking or shoulder-strap

walking

whip. With the telescopic tip and aluminum mast extensions it is
perfect for compact travel carry-on packages and fixed portable
setups or rental car mobile.

I have recently been using the MP-1 as a vehicle mobile antenna,

and

have found it to be favorably comparable in efficiency to my High
Sierra 1500 at 14MHz~29MHz.

The MP-1 antenna is in the right place at the right time for HF
Portable popularity and the FT-817.

Bonnie KQ6XA

Well, saying it won't work at all is partly a result of frustration,
but it won't work any better than the cheaper and easier to use ATX
and I can't get a decent SWR on most bands. I have it on a tripod too
and on most bands it is noticeable that the coax shield and the radio
are "hot" - just putting your hand near them changes the SWR. I
should emphasise that I am using the K2 for these tests as the 817
SWR meter is far too crude to show the effect of small adjustments of
either the coil tuning or changing counterpoise lengths.

I think what your experience shows is that if you feed RF into an
antenna some of it will get out even if the antenna isn't properly
matched. However, whether you are getting the best possible
performance from an antenna that inevitably won't be all that
efficient in the first place is another matter. That is what I am
trying to achieve. The MP-1 cost quite a lot of money and if I can't
make it work better than the ATX there is no point in my keeping it.

Julian, G4ILO

--- In FT817@y..., IslPilot@a... wrote:

Julian:

I am curious when you say the MP1 won't work at all.

Possibly I am not being as fussy but I just got off the air with a

Seattle

station on 30M and I am presently in Chicago on the ground floor of

a

warehouse with the MP1 sitting in front of the window sitting on

its tripod

with the counterpoise wires laying across the furniture in the

room.

I have never attached my MFJ analyzer to the antenna just have

tuned it with

the 817's SWR readout using the mike and the mode on AM. I am

always able to

get the SWR reading down to less than 1 bar with a little

experimentation.

If I use the 817 bracket for hand carry and drag the counterpoise

the SWR

will go up and down as I walk, but I have been able to make

numerous contacts.

At home I do connect the 817 up to a dipole and its performance is

much

better as much as 3 S units but I guess I expected that and wanted

the MP1 to

help out when I was on the road especially sitting in hotels.

When I get home I will put my analyzer on the MP1 and report back

with the

results.
It sure has worked well for me.

Paul
KB8VWV

--- In FT817@y..., don@h... wrote:

Well - OF COURSE A DIPOLE WORKS BETTER - it is a balanced antenna
that doesn't require a counterpoise (or groundplane - call it what
you like) and it isn't shortened with loading coils. That is ONE of
the reason that all (honest) antenna performance is pretty much
referenced to a dipole

That being said - I have both antennas, as well as the Maldols. The
ATX was the fussiest to get to resonate, but we have managed that.

I

have NEVER had a problem getting the MP1 to tune, but discarded

those

radials in favor of 4 of 17' 14 guage flexweave antenna wire
(slightly longer than a 1/4 wave on 20). I have worked JA's on 40

CW

on the Maldols. Alaska on 20 SSB with the ATX. Ohio from

Manzanillo,

Mexico on PSK31, etc, etc, etc.

BUT NO ANTENNA is going to make up for propogation - especially

with

a 5 watt radio. NO ANTENNA is going to tune the same when the
environment surrounding it changes. NO ANTENNA that is physically
shortened with small diameter loading coils, especially one at the
base of the whip, is going to perform like a full size dipole, even
if the dipole is olnl a few feet off the ground. During the mid

70's,
[stuff deleted}

Hi Don,

Exactly man. It seems that many people expect a short antenna to make
miracles, but the truth is that no small antenna is going to
outperform or even perform as good as the dipole. It just can`t. We
seem to forget that any short antenna is a compromise antenna. Now if
it costs a lot, then one could go ahead and brew his/her own. One
pays the constructor for the clever design, or rugged and effective
coil. If I could build or had the time to build the nice coil and all
the rest of the stuff that comes along with the MP-1, then I would
have done it myself.

Same goes with the ATX and any other commercial whip. I have both the
ATX and MP-1 and I must say that the ATX while being the most
convenient, it is the least effective. The MP-1 is a bit more clumsy
to use (although with the latest clamp that Vern made for the FT-817,
it holds much better on the side of the radio) but it is definatelly
more effective and easier to tune. I have used them both on the
mountains and these are my conclusions.

Then again it also depends on whether you want to walk and talk or
whether you want to be stationary portable or use your FT-817 as a
base station.

Now if one does not want to fork out the money and have even better
performance than these 2 whips, there is always the "W3FF 5 band
portable dipole" at and build the dipole for
$30 or so. This is much better than the MP-1 or the ATX even if it is
only 5 meters from tip to tip, but of course less convenient than
both the ATX and MP-1, because it is bigger and heavier.

Finally one could hang up a full size wire dipole but then walking
and talking is out of the question.

I think it all depends on what you want to do with your FT-817.
I personally enjoy all kinds of operations, therefore I use the most
suitable antenna for the occasion. If I walk down the promenade with
a lot of people around, then the ATX is employed usually. If I am in
a remote area, near the sea or elsewere, I use the MP-1 and when I am
on the mountain, far away from the crowds, I use the W3FF dipole.

That is my opinion.

73 de Demetre SV1UY

Hi Arlan,

last week I was in Japan for the first time and enjoyed a free
Thursday morning in the Akihabara area.

One ham shop is relatively easy to find, just have a look upwards and
you will see their antennas up in the air (don't recall the name).

The other one is called ROCKET, when you leave the subway station
just
follow the rails of the railway line that goes overhead the street,
the shop is on the left hand side.

Compared to shops here in Europe and the U.S. I was really amazed
about the large variety of details and accessories that are being
offered (for example all x-tals for my Mizuhos, that I still use from
time to time for QRP operation, are available on stock).

Don't recall all prices at the moment, but I bought the 20m and 15m
Maldol as well as the temperature compensated TCXO for the FT-817.
You
can bargain a little bit, they offered the TCXO for around 95.000 Yen
(if I recall right) but when I made a very concerned face and thought
about that price (in reality just trying to convert it to German Mark
...), the friendly sales guy reduced it right away to 80.000 Yen and
asked "ok, Sir?".

Anyhow, shopping ham gear in Japan is fun (the way the gear and
accessories are displayed reminds me of American supermarkets, they
even have music in the background ...). Don't miss the
"Museum-Section" in the second floor of ROCKET: a small section of
the
shop depicts a ham radio shop of the seventies and eighties with a
lot
of old gear tham makes you smile, and a large selection of almost
every VHF handheld that was ever available on the market
(unfortunately all marked with "Not for Sale") ... memories come back
...

Have fun, vy 73

Geri, DK8KW (W1KW)


--- In FT817@y..., howlingwolf@r... wrote:

Well, I just couldn't resist when HRO dropped the price of the

FT-817

to $639 at Dayton...I'm the proud owner of one the beasties now.

Very

nice little rig.

All the vendors at Dayton were out of the accessories (CAT-62, CW
Filters, et cetera) on Sunday...

I'll be visiting Japan soon on business and will have 3-4 days to
myself. Checking out the ham shops in Akihabara is on my "must do"
list as of now.

Does anyone know if ham accessories are any cheaper there? How

about

stuff like the Maldol antenna? I've been told that rigs are about

the

same or a little more expensive.

73 ES GUD DX
Arlan W8OW

There are optimal loop sizes for various frequencies. Yours seems too small
to have good radiation efficiency on 20 meters. Maybe 10 meters or 6 meters
would be optimal. I'm too lazy to look up the optimal sizes in the ARRL
antenna handbook.

I'm going on a 4-day fishing trip with my sons. They fish, I fish for
contacts. This will be my first time to really put the 817 through its paces
with various field-type antennas -- specifically, hamsticks, G5RV-type
inverted V and 110' long wire with counterpoise. See ya at the lake!

-- Bil KD6JUI

I got mine for $669 from AES at Dayton. I understood later that I
could have gotten the same unit for $639 at HRO, but the $669 wasn't
bad. I had AES ship it (free) to avoid the sales tax. I also saw
$1019 for an IC-746 on HRO's Saturday quote sheet, which I thought
was an extraordinary deal.

As for Michigan Radio, I got an ARRL Extra Class License guide for
$16 (list $19) and an ARRL Repeater Handbook for $7 (list $9) from
them. They did have good deals on books.

73,

..bob..WA5IHZ

--- In FT817@y..., "Ryan Stapleton" <ryan@b...> wrote:

I got one at the local HRO store and they only gave me $20 off.
for a total of $749.. I would assume that was the at dayton price

only.

Oh well..

-Ryan
ka3wut

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter C. Abraham [mailto:peter_abraham@y...]
Sent: Monday, May 21, 2001 7:16 PM
To: FT817@y...
Subject: Re: [FT817] Best Price FT-817 at Dayton Hamvention?


I called HRO this morning and asked about the price,
they said that the $639 (USD) price stopped yesterday
at 5 pm.

-Peter

--- Marty Purselley <ranchonodinero@e...>
wrote:

Anyone locate a vendor who would honor the prices?
Hamcom is coming up in Arlington, but we usually
don't get "Dayton" type deals.

Marty AA5UN

=====
Peter C. Abraham
Amateur Radio - KM5XD, ex-KB2INO
Radio Network Planning Engineer for Nokia Networks
WWW - - Last Updated Sept. 1999
<>< - Joshua 24:15

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This was my first Dayton experience, and I was overwhelmed!

I should have picked up a Z-11 from HRO, but was still reeling from
everything else. I did pick up the Heil adapter for use with my old
BM5.

So, where's the best price for the 500Hz filter?

73, doug

oops.. slip of the typing fist...
should have said:
A ballpark estimate: Vertex's profit on 8000 FT-817 radios is around
US$500,000.

Bonnie KQ6XA

--- In FT817@y..., Michael Dirska <md@m...> wrote:

Hello Tom,

At Dayton I got an INRAD 500 Hz CW filter to tighten up the

passband

for PSK31 use. Here I am using the Menu #26 DIG=PSK31-U mode, so

the

filter is enabled with #38 FILTER=CW.

What I see happen is that when the filter is enabled with NAR, the
frequency jumps 30 Hz higher. I have checked and there is no

on/off

frequency shift in CW or sideband (with #38 set to SSB).

I ran into this problem also at the weekend - when I first used
PSK31 (coolest digital mode ever.. ;-)

Since these filters are passive devices, and since no offset is

seen

in SSB or CW, this seems to me to be a bug. With PSK31 bandwidths
being so narrow, it is a pretty serious flaw. Has anyone else seen
this problem? Or, by chance, is there a chance that this apparent

bug

is in fact an "unadvertised feature" (following the proud

tradition

of Windoze software)?

You're right.. The shift comes from the software. But if you set
"26 DIG MODE" to "USER U", the mysterious shift disappears. The
only thing with this is, that the passband shifts from
1000Hz to 1500Hz.. But I believe you can program that also in
this "user mode".

Hope this helps.

73 de Michael, DL1BFF

Michael Dirska, DL1BFF noted

You're right.. The shift comes from the software. But if you set
"26 DIG MODE" to "USER U", the mysterious shift disappears. The
only thing with this is, that the passband shifts from
1000Hz to 1500Hz.. But I believe you can program that also in
this "user mode".

Michael was 100% right -- using USER-U instead of PSK31-U solves the
problem. The filter does end up with a passband from 1000 to 1500 Hz,
which works very well with HamScan PSK31 software. Thanks for the
hint.

I still assert that the frequency shift that I originally reported is
a nasty bug in the 817's firmware. But it's good that there was such
a simple fix.

73 de Tom, W3IWI

The MP-1 is probably the most versatile, and efficient whip antenna I
have ever used for multi-band HF Pedestrian Mobile operation. Using
the stainless steel tip and assembled for base-loading, the
combination makes a very durable backpacking or shoulder-strap walking
whip. With the telescopic tip and aluminum mast extensions it is
perfect for compact travel carry-on packages and fixed portable
setups or rental car mobile.

I met Vern at Dayton, and got a MP-1 plus mobile setup. I am excited about
bicycle mobile with it.

He left the booth he was showing the antennas at to join our informal
get-together. Lots of fun meeting a dozen or more faces from the list

Pres Waterman W2PW
c/o Patchogue Motors, Inc.
Long Island Ford and Kia dealer

GO BILLS!

A ballpark estimate: Vertex's profit on 8000 FT-917 radios is
around US$500,000.

Bonnie KQ6XA

Well, a correction is in order. I thought I was asked the total

sold, not

just in the US but worldwide. And I heard 8,000 from Barry, W4WB

who heard

that directly from Yaesu.

Well that equals $6,000,000 dollars in sales at the price of $750.00.
Who said you can't make money selling ham gear?

Depends on your cost of manufacture: R/D, parts, labor, packaging, shipping,
etc.

But I'm not shedding a tear for Yaesu!

Pres Waterman W2PW
c/o Patchogue Motors, Inc.
Long Island Ford and Kia dealer

GO BILLS!