Re: How to assemble an Collins filter + Board for FT-817/857 and save $$$!!!
I dont think you would like a 100 Hz filter.? Makes tuning to find stations difficult.? I use a 300 Hz Collins filter in my FT817 and also other rigs with IF DSP with adjustable filters for CW.? I often use a 1.4kHz filter for tuning.
73, ron, n9ee/r Ron Wright, N9EE/R Hernando Co ARES EC
Spring Hill, Florida also n9ee55@...
On Wednesday, July 10, 2024 at 06:27:37 PM EDT, Greg, K3RW <gregory.c.winters@...> wrote:
What other filters exist for the 817/818 rigs?
Looking at INRAD's old page I see a couple of options, though they are long gone.
CW: 300 and 500Hz
SSB: 2000, 2300, 2500, 2900KHz
I thought there was a narrower CW filter out there somewhere, but maybe I'm thinking of a different rig.? I thought there was a 100Hz option.
Greg, K3RW/KH7
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Re: How to assemble an Collins filter + Board for FT-817/857 and save $$$!!!
What other filters exist for the 817/818 rigs?
Looking at INRAD's old page I see a couple of options, though they are long gone.
CW: 300 and 500Hz
SSB: 2000, 2300, 2500, 2900KHz
I thought there was a narrower CW filter out there somewhere, but maybe I'm thinking of a different rig.? I thought there was a 100Hz option.
Greg, K3RW/KH7
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
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Okay, learned some today. I off-loaded the Windcamp battery and went out with the Bioenno 12v/3Ah for a SOTA activation. Indeed the power symbology did change with the external battery to show the full 6W (blank display) and all the subsequent settings. Through some reading on previous posts WRT the battery drain on the 818/817, I believe this is completely negated by using the off switch on the Windcamp battery cover which preserves the battery. Correct?
As Tobias suggested, I set the 'PWRMtr' setting to SWR. On a multiband 10-15-20-40 EFHW, I only saw "S" when in RX and occasionally saw "SW" when transmitting. I assume this to mean my SWR was acceptable, but cannot confirm. The manual makes vague reference to the SWR meter but says nothing about what is displayed in this mode.
I've also ordered the 3D printed rails to replace the PortableZero rails which are robust but heavy. Next I need a DIY hand mic that is smaller/lightweight than the OEM mic which came with the radio.
If anyone would care to chime in and fill in any blanks, I'll gladly take the feedback. Really enjoying the radio.
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
Matt,
Just go ahead and send me those portable zero rails that you're not using. As for a mic, how about K6ARK?? ?
r/ Paul
Okay, learned some today. I off-loaded the Windcamp battery and went out with the Bioenno 12v/3Ah for a SOTA activation. Indeed the power symbology did change with the external battery to show the full 6W (blank display) and all the subsequent settings. Through some reading on previous posts WRT the battery drain on the 818/817, I believe this is completely negated by using the off switch on the Windcamp battery cover which preserves the battery. Correct?
As Tobias suggested, I set the 'PWRMtr' setting to SWR. On a multiband 10-15-20-40 EFHW, I only saw "S" when in RX and occasionally saw "SW" when transmitting. I assume this to mean my SWR was acceptable, but cannot confirm. The manual makes vague reference to the SWR meter but says nothing about what is displayed in this mode.
I've also ordered the 3D printed rails to replace the PortableZero rails which are robust but heavy. Next I need a DIY hand mic that is smaller/lightweight than the OEM mic which came with the radio.
If anyone would care to chime in and fill in any blanks, I'll gladly take the feedback. Really enjoying the radio.
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
Hi Matt, ? I believe that the 818 is almost identical to the 817 in operation with just a few enhancements. So here are my comments. ? The power indication flashing or not flashing when in the high power mode is purely dependant on the voltage being fed to the radio from whatever source. You could test this by powering it from an external variable supply starting at 12V and then gradually reducing the voltage and you’ll find that at a certain point the icon will start flashing. The rationale is that when using an external supply of around 12V the display doesn’t flash but when using the battery, which normally has a nominal voltage of about 10.2 V (NiMH) the icon will flash to warn you that you are on high power and hence will run down the battery much faster. ? Regarding the S and SW indications, it will read S on receive indicating that you are reading signal strength and SW on transmit indicting that you are reading SWR. If you had it set to Power, then it would read P instead of SW on transmit. Obviously, the less bars shown in SWR, the better. ? 73….Eric VK2VE. ?
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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Matt W7MDN via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2024 1:38 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [ft817] TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)? Okay, learned some today. I off-loaded the Windcamp battery and went out with the Bioenno 12v/3Ah for a SOTA activation. Indeed the power symbology did change with the external battery to show the full 6W (blank display) and all the subsequent settings. Through some reading on previous posts WRT the battery drain on the 818/817, I believe this is completely negated by using the off switch on the Windcamp battery cover which preserves the battery. Correct?
As Tobias suggested, I set the 'PWRMtr' setting to SWR. On a multiband 10-15-20-40 EFHW, I only saw "S" when in RX and occasionally saw "SW" when transmitting. I assume this to mean my SWR was acceptable, but cannot confirm. The manual makes vague reference to the SWR meter but says nothing about what is displayed in this mode.
I've also ordered the 3D printed rails to replace the PortableZero rails which are robust but heavy. Next I need a DIY hand mic that is smaller/lightweight than the OEM mic which came with the radio.
If anyone would care to chime in and fill in any blanks, I'll gladly take the feedback. Really enjoying the radio.
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
Okay, learned some today. I off-loaded the Windcamp battery and went out with the Bioenno 12v/3Ah for a SOTA activation. Indeed the power symbology did change with the external battery to show the full 6W (blank display) and all the subsequent settings. Through some reading on previous posts WRT the battery drain on the 818/817, I believe this is completely negated by using the off switch on the Windcamp battery cover which preserves the battery. Correct?
As Tobias suggested, I set the 'PWRMtr' setting to SWR. On a multiband 10-15-20-40 EFHW, I only saw "S" when in RX and occasionally saw "SW" when transmitting. I assume this to mean my SWR was acceptable, but cannot confirm. The manual makes vague reference to the SWR meter but says nothing about what is displayed in this mode.
I've also ordered the 3D printed rails to replace the PortableZero rails which are robust but heavy. Next I need a DIY hand mic that is smaller/lightweight than the OEM mic which came with the radio.
If anyone would care to chime in and fill in any blanks, I'll gladly take the feedback. Really enjoying the radio.
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
I use B to cycle POW and Swr to make ture things are working properly.?
Blinking power symbol is correct for full power on internal battery. On 13.8v there will be no power logo.
One other thing you can do is calibrate the battery voltage display. This is an internal menu item, but I found that mine would show a much lower voltage than the battery had available. I don't think the display has anything to do with when the transmitter will reduce power, however.?
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
Andy:
I have not, but will bring the 12v Bioenno LiFePo next time. I don't have a home power supply; no setup at the house.
Coax is a 10' length of RG-316, off the ground to the max extent possible. Acknowledge the minuscule difference between 5 and 6W, but it was a factor in waiting for a FT-818 vs the 817.
Matt
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
I wasn't aware of that WRT the POW graph. I think it was going full right but will need to look next time. I do recall the L)) was blinking when I was in TX and sometimes in RX. I'm only using the radio in CW right now. Previous owner installed a Collins/Inrad CW filter.
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
Hi Matt,
Have you tried to see what power options your radio gives when on a 13.8v external power supply? You should get all 4 options.
I have the 817 and 818, both give full power on a psu and external 12v battery, I don't use internal batteries.
Also the difference between 5 and 6w really isn't worth worrying about, to get the best out of these radios use good antennas and low loss coax.
Have fun?
Andy
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Re: TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
With no logo visible you will have 6w, when the voltage of the battery drops below (not sure exactly but something near) 11v the logo will blink. But still at full output.
It's not the clearest, but it works. Remember that the POW graph is a full range, so bars all the way to the right is 6w, so when in doubt look at the power out.
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TX power symbology (FT-818 specific)
FT-818 Jedis:
Recent owner of a FT-818ND. The book and Nifty manual state there should be four symbols for determining TX power:
[blank] - full 6W (5W internal battery)
L))) - 2.5W
L)) - 1.0W
L) - 0.5W
I'm using the internal Windcamp battery mod. My screen will only display L)), and L) regardless of the number of times I push the B button. It also seems like there are some extra button pushes in the cycle that don't change anything, i.e. it takes two button pushes to get from L)) back to L). The battery is fully charged.
FT-818 veterans, need a brief explanation of the symbology for internal versus external battery sources.
Also is 6W achievable with the internal battery? Is that why only two symbols are displaying?
If using an external Bioenno 12v, 3Ah battery, is full power an option or am I limited to 5W?
Thanks in advance,
Matt W7MDN
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Re: Measuring the output power
Two excellent field tools to establish that your radio actually transmits are:
- See how fast a resistor heats up using a calibrated ouchometer - thanks VK3YE
- Have a torch light bulb dummy load.
To make an accurate measurement, the best, cheapest and most accurate way is a simple dummy load and Schottky diode.
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2024 Flight of the Bumblebees
FT-817's set the world on fire for Portable QRP Operation.? ?Now would be a good time to get your FT-817/FT-818 out there and turn it into a Bumblebee !!?
2024 Flight of the Bumblebees
?
The annual Flight of the Bumblebees will be held on Sunday, July 28, 2024.
?
The event ?will be in a four hour daytime window, from 1700 to 2100 UTC.
?
This casual QRP CW event consists of 'Bumblebees' who are operating portable stations at outdoor locations, and 'Home Stations' who try to work as many of these 'Bumblebees' as possible.
?
This event is open to all operators.? Anywhere.? Being at the top of the sunspot cycle, this year's? event has the potential to be very interesting.
?
Operators who want to go out and setup a portable station at some outdoor location, and be a highly sought after 'Bumblebee', need to obtain a "Bumblebee Number".?
?
The window for obtaining your 2024 'Bumblebee Number' is now Open.
?
The web site will explain the whole process.
?
I'll be out there as a 'Bumblebee' - hoping to work you during the event.
?
72,
Jody - K3JZD
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Re: Measuring the output power
> 1N60 diodes as a peak detector.
Germainium diode voltage drop drifts with temperature, that's why
we don't use them anymore.
Use a decent Shottky diode with ultra low capacitance like a BAS70
with only 1pf.
They will be good for measuring down to 1mw with a simple power meter.
For sub 1mw levels you can use add some forward DC bias to the device
and recalibrate.
You'll then get a stable 0.35v drop like a Germanium that is more constant
with temperature.
Anyone remember the old AM broadcast receivers from the 60's/70's ?
On a hot day the those old Germanium trannys wilted and lost the plot.
- Andy -
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Re: Measuring the output power
No, I was not recommending connecing a VNA to the output of a rig directly.
I was referring for the need to use one (properly) to determine for example
if a PA was sprogging first, in order to verify a fundamental power out issue
first, before assuming that a broadband? additive power meter is telling you
the truth.
I was trying trying to highlight the difference between selective frequency
power meters and non selective, and that in *some* situations you may be
fooled by them.
One superb recent classic example of this is of those dumb users that
are modding things like Quansheng HT's of late for broadband use.
Custom firmware allows 18-1300Mhz instead of the usual 2m/70cm
bands.
Then you get the CB'ers claing 5w on 27Mhz with them.
Oh no you're not.
These fools are using trashy wideband additive power meters that show
5w when the rig is keyed, but 4.999w is coming out somewhere daft
at about 120Mhz - not good at all.
Now there's a real life example to illustrate the point.
Brilliant HT's when used within the usual 137-176Mhz or 400-470Mhz range
on TX where the filters do their job, whilst offering some amazing experimental
features and a useful wideband multimode RX from 18-1300Mhz, but
deffo not for TX outside the above two ranges mentioned above.
Anyway, this is more of a general purpose RF post rather than a specific
FT817 on, my apologies for some topic drift.
73 de Andy
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Re: Measuring the output power
Mike
Excellent post. You must be an RF engineer.
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Re: Measuring the output power
You don't want to be connecting a VNA to your rig, ever, only to an aerial without the rig.
Nearly all SWR meters measure power too. The ones for CB use a strip line sampler, so above 27 MHz they take too much signal (though you can cut it in 1/2 for 50 MHz or use about 1/3rd for 144 MHz. They can be adapted to measure power only on any band.
The HF SWR meters use a toriod transformer with the signal using 1 turn. They may not always be good for 160m or 10m. The CB type meters are OK on 10m, and may be OK 21 MHz to 29 MHz.
If you are measuring power to a dummy load you don't need the SWR circuitry, simply a resistor divider and pair of 1N60 diodes as a peak detector. That then needs calibrated.
An Ardunio or other mpu is only needed for an automatic SWR meter where you don't have to set forward power reference level. All simple SWR meters will also measure forward power as they need that for the cal setting and sensitivity knob, though some may have poor calibration and many only work over a particular range. There were expensive easily damaged wideband HP power meters that could measure almost any frequency and waveform as they used a thermistor. The really expensive Bird meters are more robust and much cheaper!
No cheap VNA is any use to measure power. Mostly the signal generator is no use for anything other than built-in measurements on cheap ones.
One old method was to use two lamps behind a screen that were approximately 50 Ohm at the desired power (tungsten filament lamps can vary 1:10 between cold and hot). Then you connected one to device under test and the other to a PSU. You adjusted them the same appearance/brightness and then the DC PSU readings are your power. Still can be handy above 1 GHz as a rough check.
You can use a cheap CB meter on 28 MHz on the FT817 with a dummy load, if you have a method to calibrate / check it (most have gain pots). That then tells you the FT817 and its inbuilt metering is working (or not), Then assume the FT817 metering is a rough guide. A quality 100 MHz scope may be good enough for HF to see peak to peak on a 50 Ohms dummy load and then you can calculate the power = (peak to peak / 2.828a) squared / 50
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A year ago I found one of the appropriate AOR-branded 300Hz Collins mechanical filters on the eBay Japan site for the ? equivalent of about $100. The seller, a Tokyo based AOR dealer, had just one filter, so I bought his last one. It arrived in an AOR box a
week after placing the order.
I sourced the requisite small printed circuit board from Artur (SP6AB).
?Artur was surprised I was asking him for a board since he hadn’t sold any in a while and since he believed that the global supply of the Collins mechanical filters had “long” ?been exhausted.
He has “plenty” of the circuit boards available but has no leads on where one might find the Collins filters.
My assembled filter that I am using in my FT-817ND is identical in fit and function to the Yaesu-branded filter I have in my FT-818ND.
?Artur shipped quickly and the boards (I bought two- one for a spare) arrived in Seattle from Poland in just a few days. ?I recommend his boards unconditionally.
I have two suggestions for obtaining the Collins mechanical filter:
?1) Search e-Bay for the appropriate *Collins* part number (don’t use the Yaesu part number unless you want to buy the ~$300 assembled Yaesu filters).?
2) Search eBay and ham sites for the Yaesu part numbers corresponding to the genuine Yaesu filters for *other* Yaesu rigs that use the same Collins part numbers. You will find these Yaesu filters are assembled using a printed circuit board quite a bit
larger than our FT-817/FT-818 filters. But the correct Collins filter can be un-soldered from the boards and re-soldered to one of Arthur’s boards.
I reached Artur at the email address listed with his callsign.
73 de N7TIN
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On Jun 28, 2024, at 10:31, Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote:
? Ron,
It would make your 30 year-old radio worth, about, $150 more... ;^)
All this talk has me trying to remember what, if any, filters are in the FT-897 I picked up a while ago at a low price...
Ken, N2VIP
On Jun 28, 2024, at 11:50, Ron Wright via groups.io <lt_wright_flg@...> wrote:
Might make my FT817 that I have had since the 90s worth much more, hi.
73, ron, n9ee/r
Ron Wright, N9EE/R
Hernando Co ARES EC
Spring Hill, Florida also
n9ee55@...
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KM4JHK paul
Tobias KK7BCO/2M0TFF
M0RON
Ham Radio
Mike EI9FEB
Rod VA3MZD