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Re: FT-817 Replacement
I like that it has a more modern chassis. The trend for faceplate on a slab form factors is well established by icom with the 705, elecraft with kx2 and kx3, and the tx-599. So far as features, I would rather they leave something out than cram it in poorly implemented. I am most pleased that it looks like a miniature of my ft-710, hopefully I won't feel like I am starting from scratch learning buttons and menus. I'll probably keep my 817nd for a good while, it will be perfect if the 8 year old shows interest in a few years. Or like K4SWL it may live in a pouch in my car. On Fri, Sep 6, 2024, 11:23?AM Jeff WN1MB via <jwbauer=[email protected]> wrote:
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
开云体育Thank you for saying what needed to be said, Ken!The negativity, shortsightedness, and lack of gratitude around here lately has been increasingly unpleasant. I wish Yaesu all the best with their new offering and am glad they're still in the game. 73, Jeff WN1MB On 9/6/24 01:38, Ken N2VIP wrote:
What FT-817 owners wanted was something different, yet the same - size, weight, features, etc. Yaesu instead added a few more years to the life of the FT-817 ecosystem with the very slightly redesigned FT-818 that was *almost* exactly the same as the FT-817, except the TCXO was now included, an additional watt of RF output, and higher-capacity batteries... and what did the user base do? They complained - the new finals use perceptibly more power, the battery life is shorter at full-power, and my 15 year-old FT-817 already has a TCXO! Why would I buy one to replace my trusty 15 year-old radio? Lost on them was the reality of what Yaesu did - they put out (essentially) the same radio to give FT-817 owners one last chance to buy an FT-817 radio with a 3 year warranty, and the community said they wanted something different - and now the community is saying "we don't like this new field radio, it's not an FT-817 replacement, it has the wrong shape, it doesn't have this, they left that out, was-waa-waa!" Yaesu has produced a very interesting new radio - a dual-receiver, 'shack in a box' rig with a lot of the latest features, and people complain about the shape? Wow. If NOTHING ELSE, the new field radio should appeal to all those so-called FT-1634 owners who strapped two FT-817s together to have a great satellite radio. (but of course, they complain they can't hang tge new radio around their neck!) /soapbox Ken, N2VIP |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
开云体育Application Specific Integrated Circuit, if we're being particular.Greg? KO6TH tomsdad97 via groups.io wrote:
Application Specific Integrated Controller. |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
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-------- Original message -------- From: Eric van de Weyer <groups.io@...> Date: 6/9/24 20:15 (GMT+10:00) Subject: Re: [ft817] FT-817 Replacement Hi Mike, ? PLEASE, if you’re going to use acronyms, spell them out the first time you use them unless they are obvious such as SSB, FM or DSP etc. ? For instance, what is ASIC? To me, it’s the Australian Securities and Investments Commission! ? Acronyms can be fine so long as everyone understands what they mean immediately. If not,, they should be defined the first time they are used in your writing. ? 73….Eric VK2VE. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike EI9FEB ? On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 06:38 AM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Surely it was mainly for new hams, new owners? My query is. Is it an ASIC based DSP set (low power receive, but design fixed in silicon and high NRE? Or an FPGA based DSP which is much higher power consumpution on receive, but can be updated to fix bugs or change functionality? It does look more suited to a dashboard than a belt punch. The FT81x series probably isn't much used like a 1950s WS88 (fitted in an amunition pouch with 1.5V + 90V combo battery in a second pouch. The FT818ND always looked to me like simply a cost reduction and update because some parts were now obsolete or even unavailable. Likely with care any FT817ND can do 6W (a factory setteing), but 5W to 6W is insignificant and I swapped the 1800 mAH pack for a 2700 mAH and then a 2500 mAH (lower self-discharge). Most people don't need the TXCO, which is why it was an option, but those were cheap buy the time the FT818ND came out. I looked at getting an FT818ND, but decided it was for people without a working FT817ND. Instead I bought an FTdx10 to replace my FT101ZD MkIII, though i'd wanted an FT897 when I had no spare cash. But it was gone and nothing else seemed as attractive. So I got a 20W UHF linear for the FT817 (shack or car) to add to the 20W VHF linear. The FTX-1F isn't really an FT81x replacement, except in sense that the FTdx10 replaces the FT101 series. I used my FT101ZD mkII (I have the mkIII now with no battery adaptor) on a mountain top (road access) with a generator and also once on 12V. The FTdx10 is more portable & I have an old video projector carry case (like a fat laptop bag) that takes the FTdx10, its accessories and AC-DC PSU or big 12V gel cell. I may get an LiFePO4 pack if I can get mains and car chargers. I'll wait and read real reviews of the FTX-1F. I'm not interested in video reviews of anything except TV/Movie productions. Videos of old gear working (1920s and later radios, manufacturing, etc) can be interesting, but written reviews and how-tos with photos ar better than video unless it's documentary or entertainment. |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
开云体育Well said, Ken. The FT-817 is a 25 years old design, based on a much older architecture. The FT-818 was a bit of industrial CPR to keep a very useful radio going as long as possible, because lots of bits—components—are just not made any more. It's not just Collins no longer making mechanical filters. And why would they? Far better performance is available from digital filters, properly designed. The FT-817 was introduced in 2000. inflation from 2000 to 2024 of USD or GBP is around 1.84. The cost of an FT-817ND from 2006 with SSB filter and DSP fitted, inflation adjusted to 2024, is just over ?1050. The FTX-1F has a different form factor. It's just as well, even
with good eyesight the 817/818 display was tiny. The so-called
spectrum scope is, well, the best that could be done dirt cheap.
As for adding the necessary bits for data of one form or another,
with CAT control, that's two mini-DIN plugs required. Modern kit
should have Ethernet connections, whether through RJ-45, Wi-Fi,
Bluetooth, or USB for simplicity of interfacing. Fewer cables
equals more fun! There's a lot more that could be said, but in
essence with a new design us Radio Amateurs, and the
manufacturers, take full advantage of Moore's law over the past 25
years or so. In short, the design, good though it once was, is now
archaic. One is far too polite to ask if anyone still uses a spark transmitter, or keeps their favourite grandparent's 4H pencil in their top pocket to draw grid-leak resistors on the breadboard! [Not to say that heritage kit shouldn't be kept alive, or enjoyed occasionally.] As for manufacturing an FT-818, with the market cost of the BOM (bill of materials) plus the necessary overhead and mark-up costs to encourage dealers to stock such radios, to say nothing of the market competition reducing demand—one might need some heritage beverage, alcoholic or otherwise, to contemplate it. Well done Yaesu, Robin, G8DQX P.S. IIRC, the biggest demand for the 817/818 came from Japan,
for a specific limited licence class who needed a constrained
radio. The export market was a bonus. But once one manufacturer
broke ranks—the Icom IC-705—then Yaesu had little option but to
follow and try to do it better!
On 06/09/2024 06:38, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Yaesu has produced a very interesting new radio - a dual-receiver, 'shack in a box' rig with a lot of the latest features, and people complain about the shape? |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
I once went on a training course. The last 21 pages of the pre-read document were definitions of all the acronyms used on the course. By day 4 of the course, the letters of the new acronyms we learned stood for other acronyms we'd learned earlier. I'm so glad I'm retired now. 73, John G4EDX On Fri, 6 Sept 2024 at 11:15, Eric van de Weyer via <=[email protected]> wrote:
--
John Fletcher |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
“If NOTHING ELSE, the new field radio should appeal to all those so-called FT-1634 owners who strapped two FT-817s together to have a great satellite radio. (but of course, they complain they can't hang tge new radio around their neck!)” It’s not full-duplex, so you’ll still need a FTX-3E for satellite operation. Big missed opportunity for Yaesu after years and years of commentary that a full-duplex small battery powered radio was desired by the amateur satellite community.? 73, Paul, N8HM On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 01:38 Ken N2VIP <ken@...> wrote: What FT-817 owners wanted was something different, yet the same - size, weight, features, etc. Yaesu instead added a few more years to the life of the FT-817 ecosystem with the very slightly redesigned FT-818 that was *almost* exactly the same as the FT-817, except the TCXO was now included, an additional watt of RF output, and higher-capacity batteries... and what did the user base do? They complained - the new finals use perceptibly more power, the battery life is shorter at full-power, and my 15 year-old FT-817 already has a TCXO! Why would I buy one to replace my trusty 15 year-old radio? |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
开云体育Hi Mike, ? PLEASE, if you’re going to use acronyms, spell them out the first time you use them unless they are obvious such as SSB, FM or DSP etc. ? For instance, what is ASIC? To me, it’s the Australian Securities and Investments Commission! ? Acronyms can be fine so long as everyone understands what they mean immediately. If not,, they should be defined the first time they are used in your writing. ? 73….Eric VK2VE. ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Mike EI9FEB
Sent: Friday, 6 September 2024 19:05 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [ft817] FT-817 Replacement ? On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 06:38 AM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Surely it was mainly for new hams, new owners? My query is. Is it an ASIC based DSP set (low power receive, but design fixed in silicon and high NRE? Or an FPGA based DSP which is much higher power consumpution on receive, but can be updated to fix bugs or change functionality? It does look more suited to a dashboard than a belt punch. The FT81x series probably isn't much used like a 1950s WS88 (fitted in an amunition pouch with 1.5V + 90V combo battery in a second pouch. The FT818ND always looked to me like simply a cost reduction and update because some parts were now obsolete or even unavailable. Likely with care any FT817ND can do 6W (a factory setteing), but 5W to 6W is insignificant and I swapped the 1800 mAH pack for a 2700 mAH and then a 2500 mAH (lower self-discharge). Most people don't need the TXCO, which is why it was an option, but those were cheap buy the time the FT818ND came out. I looked at getting an FT818ND, but decided it was for people without a working FT817ND. Instead I bought an FTdx10 to replace my FT101ZD MkIII, though i'd wanted an FT897 when I had no spare cash. But it was gone and nothing else seemed as attractive. So I got a 20W UHF linear for the FT817 (shack or car) to add to the 20W VHF linear. The FTX-1F isn't really an FT81x replacement, except in sense that the FTdx10 replaces the FT101 series. I used my FT101ZD mkII (I have the mkIII now with no battery adaptor) on a mountain top (road access) with a generator and also once on 12V. The FTdx10 is more portable & I have an old video projector carry case (like a fat laptop bag) that takes the FTdx10, its accessories and AC-DC PSU or big 12V gel cell. I may get an LiFePO4 pack if I can get mains and car chargers. I'll wait and read real reviews of the FTX-1F. I'm not interested in video reviews of anything except TV/Movie productions. Videos of old gear working (1920s and later radios, manufacturing, etc) can be interesting, but written reviews and how-tos with photos ar better than video unless it's documentary or entertainment. |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
On Fri, Sep 6, 2024 at 06:38 AM, Ken N2VIP wrote:
Surely it was mainly for new hams, new owners? My query is. Is it an ASIC based DSP set (low power receive, but design fixed in silicon and high NRE? Or an FPGA based DSP which is much higher power consumpution on receive, but can be updated to fix bugs or change functionality? It does look more suited to a dashboard than a belt punch. The FT81x series probably isn't much used like a 1950s WS88 (fitted in an amunition pouch with 1.5V + 90V combo battery in a second pouch. The FT818ND always looked to me like simply a cost reduction and update because some parts were now obsolete or even unavailable. Likely with care any FT817ND can do 6W (a factory setteing), but 5W to 6W is insignificant and I swapped the 1800 mAH pack for a 2700 mAH and then a 2500 mAH (lower self-discharge). Most people don't need the TXCO, which is why it was an option, but those were cheap buy the time the FT818ND came out. I looked at getting an FT818ND, but decided it was for people without a working FT817ND. Instead I bought an FTdx10 to replace my FT101ZD MkIII, though i'd wanted an FT897 when I had no spare cash. But it was gone and nothing else seemed as attractive. So I got a 20W UHF linear for the FT817 (shack or car) to add to the 20W VHF linear. The FTX-1F isn't really an FT81x replacement, except in sense that the FTdx10 replaces the FT101 series. I used my FT101ZD mkII (I have the mkIII now with no battery adaptor) on a mountain top (road access) with a generator and also once on 12V. The FTdx10 is more portable & I have an old video projector carry case (like a fat laptop bag) that takes the FTdx10, its accessories and AC-DC PSU or big 12V gel cell. I may get an LiFePO4 pack if I can get mains and car chargers. I'll wait and read real reviews of the FTX-1F. I'm not interested in video reviews of anything except TV/Movie productions. Videos of old gear working (1920s and later radios, manufacturing, etc) can be interesting, but written reviews and how-tos with photos ar better than video unless it's documentary or entertainment. |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
What FT-817 owners wanted was something different, yet the same - size, weight, features, etc. Yaesu instead added a few more years to the life of the FT-817 ecosystem with the very slightly redesigned FT-818 that was *almost* exactly the same as the FT-817, except the TCXO was now included, an additional watt of RF output, and higher-capacity batteries... and what did the user base do? They complained - the new finals use perceptibly more power, the battery life is shorter at full-power, and my 15 year-old FT-817 already has a TCXO! Why would I buy one to replace my trusty 15 year-old radio?
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Lost on them was the reality of what Yaesu did - they put out (essentially) the same radio to give FT-817 owners one last chance to buy an FT-817 radio with a 3 year warranty, and the community said they wanted something different - and now the community is saying "we don't like this new field radio, it's not an FT-817 replacement, it has the wrong shape, it doesn't have this, they left that out, was-waa-waa!" Yaesu has produced a very interesting new radio - a dual-receiver, 'shack in a box' rig with a lot of the latest features, and people complain about the shape? Wow. If NOTHING ELSE, the new field radio should appeal to all those so-called FT-1634 owners who strapped two FT-817s together to have a great satellite radio. (but of course, they complain they can't hang tge new radio around their neck!) /soapbox Ken, N2VIP On Sep 5, 2024, at 21:27, Rudi via groups.io <wa2nub@...> wrote: |
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
This rumor of a new 817 updated replacement has been going around for a decade or more. Thats why the ft818 was such a disappointment, it didn't look like the 'dream' replacement at all.
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Wa2nub
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Re: FT-817 Replacement
开云体育It's all you're gonna get, I wouldn't expect an FT-891 form-factor QR radio from Yaesu anytime soon.Ken, N2VIP On Sep 5, 2024, at 14:31, Andy Foad via groups.io <andyfoad@...> wrote:
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Re: Recent final board price / availability?
Thanks. I had watched that video as well. It may be time to check with RF Parts about replacement transistors. I have done some surface mount and hot air rework. I might sell it as is on ebay as is. I am seeing about a quarter watt on a qrp wattmeter when I cycle through the power settings. Thanks to all
73s John N4HNO |
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Re: Recent final board price / availability?
开云体育This video shows the finals board being replaced:? In the above video he refers to and supplies a link for a video where a German tech does a component-level repair, Pictures were posted to this group a week or two ago showing what the finals board looks like. As I recall, the transistor had an interesting/unconventional connection. When a replacement board is available, it's cheaper to replace the board than do a component level diagnostic and component replacement by a professional. When replacement boards are not available, component-level repair MAY BE an option. Remember the FT-817 (non-ND) had finals that became unavailable, so Yaesu designed a new board for the FT-818 that used a different component. (You can't get replacement finals for non-ND radios, you can for the FT-818 radio, since it's a different design.) Ken, N2VIP On Sep 1, 2024, at 21:32, Joseph Wonoski via groups.io <N1khb@...> wrote:
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Re: Recent final board price / availability?
Just a thought here, but there are non Yaesu affiliated ham equipment repair services around. Most likely ham ops themselves. Depending on the resourcefulness and skill of these individuals there could well be a solution such as replacing the discrete transistors as components by them rather than being concerned about a board level replacement. I know many of us would be willing to take a stab at this ourselves, but others not so much.
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? ?I haven't personally seen what the board looks like, but superficially it seems like the board might be replicated. There are numerous small quantity board makers out there and only need the precise measurements and of course the circuit traces. As I understood it at the time when I was still working, they even had a way to work out the etching pattern on your computer screen. They? could be purchased individually of course, but? maybe someone could get some dozens of them made (the prices per piece go down with quantity) and be willing to supply them to the community at reasonable prices. They could be just bare boards, or could be finished products. ? ?Again, just thinking possibilities.? Joe N1KHB?
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Re: Recent final board price / availability?
开云体育Availability of the boards in the U.S. is up for debate:Yaesu has said you can order them, but they also say they have none in stock and no plans to order any. There is also a statement from Yaesu that says they will no longer accept Original FT-817 radios (so-called non-ND radios) for repair, due to the age of the radio.? This was debated here over several days, with no real conclusion that I remember seeing - Yaesu will fix FT-817nd and FT-818 boards, and the finals board used in those radios is compatible with the original FT-817 (non-ND). - in theory, Yaesu will have to, at some point, re-stock the revised board for repairs to the FT-817nd and FT-818, so there is really no clear answer. Compatible boards were noted as available in some non-USA markets, but they may have all been snapped up by now. Hope this helps, good luck! Ken, N2VIP On Sep 1, 2024, at 17:57, Tech Guy <tech48055@...> wrote:
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Re: 60dbm Neptune Amplifier + or -
I didn't find a manual from the manufacturer, but I did find a source on Github where a guy posted a 'fix' to some SSB issue he was having.? I am not quite sure what the nature of the issue was--something about the amp switching off if he goes to SSB (from digital?).? He appears to be running a Hermes Lite 2 with the bandvoltage as an automatic band select.? This is going over my head, quite honestly.? But its the first schematic I've seen anywhere of the amplifier.
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(this gets you to the repository)
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Here is one of the Neptune 100w schematics:
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Here is the one that he explained in detail how to add a ESP32 controller and take over some of the amplifier functions to prevent this error:
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Not sure how similar the 50w schematic is to the 100w, and they have a manual band-switcher amp also.
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Greg, K3RW/KH7
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Re: Digital input sensitivity
Yes, you can set different audio input levels between HF and VHF and modes for USB/LSB, and DIG/PKT.
However, the radio user interface design is 25 years old, and reflects an era where AX.25 pkt on VHF/UHF FM, and RTTY or PSK(maybe) on HF were king. The radio menu settings have actions that aren't obvious. Best documentation I've seen is in the Files section of this group: /g/ft817/files/FT-817%20computer%20interface%20notes.pdf Lots there, going back 20+years 73, hope this helps, jeff KN8A |
Jeff WN1MB
Mike EI9FEB