Home-brew table extension rails for off-brand machines
|
Hi gang! I did a search for this topic and couldn't find much, if this has been discussed previously I'd appreciate your grace and a link to the discussion.?
As I'm very early into my journey acquiring "real" shop equipment, I'm having to make-do with some "lesser" machines until budget allows for more robust units. For Felder equipment, I currently own a Hammer A3-41 and HS-950, with a KF700SP arriving sometime in January 2021. So, I'm planning on getting into the Felder/Aigner table extension ecosystem, and have already acquired a Felder aluminum table extension with the leg support, along with a pair of the 400mm table extension support bars from Felder.? One of the intended uses of the aluminum table extension with leg support is for out feed support on my band saw, as well as for use with the Felder/Aigner circle cutting jig (band saw and edge sander).? The issue I'm bumping into is, the Felder table extension support bars seem intended for machines with cast iron tables that have at least a ~50mm+ tall apron (by my math, I think the centerline of the fasteners is ~35mm down from the table surface). Many of the machines I currently own have much shallower aprons, they all seem to be ~35mm deep.? -- For those who are using the Aigner support bars, can you please let me know what you think the minimum depth of apron is required to use them?? -- I see Felder sells a sort of "Universal" support bar, part # 1.0.150, but I can't find any information regarding how it mounts to a machine, and what the minimum apron thickness is? Does anybody have experience or a diagram??? -- If the above two products don't work out, I'm left with the option of either: ? ? ? A.) Bolting or welding 2" bar stock to the machine tables to act as a deeper apron and using the Felder or Aigner support bars, or? ? ? ? B.) Home-brewing my own extension bars that would accommodate the shallow (~35mm) aprons of my current machines. If I go with this option, it would likely necessitate using smaller diameter fasters, which in my mind would simple mean I'd need more (I'd probably use 4 or 5 support bolts for a 400mm bar, versus the 3 larger bolts Felder uses). I was thinking 1/4-20 bolts with 1/2" diameter spacers. I would also only use the table extension with a leg for these machines, not the tables which cantilever.? Any input or experience would be much appreciated.? Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
开云体育Tom, where are you getting 35mm from? the flat bars are placed either 10 or 12 mm below the machine table surface. i cannot remember which one of these two match my machine but others swear by the 2nd number. imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 11:35 AM, tom@... wrote:
?Hi gang! I did a search for this topic and couldn't find much, if this has been discussed previously I'd appreciate your grace and a link to the discussion.? As I'm very early into my journey acquiring "real" shop equipment, I'm having to make-do with some "lesser" machines until budget allows for more robust units. For Felder equipment, I currently own a Hammer A3-41 and HS-950, with a KF700SP arriving sometime in January 2021. So, I'm planning on getting into the Felder/Aigner table extension ecosystem, and have already acquired a Felder aluminum table extension with the leg support, along with a pair of the 400mm table extension support bars from Felder.? One of the intended uses of the aluminum table extension with leg support is for out feed support on my band saw, as well as for use with the Felder/Aigner circle cutting jig (band saw and edge sander).? The issue I'm bumping into is, the Felder table extension support bars seem intended for machines with cast iron tables that have at least a ~50mm+ tall apron (by my math, I think the centerline of the fasteners is ~35mm down from the table surface). Many of the machines I currently own have much shallower aprons, they all seem to be ~35mm deep.? -- For those who are using the Aigner support bars, can you please let me know what you think the minimum depth of apron is required to use them?? -- I see Felder sells a sort of "Universal" support bar, part # 1.0.150, but I can't find any information regarding how it mounts to a machine, and what the minimum apron thickness is? Does anybody have experience or a diagram??? -- If the above two products don't work out, I'm left with the option of either: ? ? ? A.) Bolting or welding 2" bar stock to the machine tables to act as a deeper apron and using the Felder or Aigner support bars, or? ? ? ? B.) Home-brewing my own extension bars that would accommodate the shallow (~35mm) aprons of my current machines. If I go with this option, it would likely necessitate using smaller diameter fasters, which in my mind would simple mean I'd need more (I'd probably use 4 or 5 support bolts for a 400mm bar, versus the 3 larger bolts Felder uses). I was thinking 1/4-20 bolts with 1/2" diameter spacers. I would also only use the table extension with a leg for these machines, not the tables which cantilever.? Any input or experience would be much appreciated.? Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
开云体育Tom,It is good to have all your f-rails be uniform so moving extensions from table to table is easy. I added Aigner f-rails to the table on my Northfield Unipoint saw and found that the Aigner rails are shallower than a Felder rail. ? ?The shallow f-rail would not work with the Felder extension table so I milled a strip of aluminum and bolted it to the bottom of the Aigner rail. ?I think the aluminum strip was 10mm x 10mm or so and what ever the length required. ? Joe
|
开云体育tom, sorry i missed center line part. so yes ~35mm. my bandsaw table is 32mm and aigner bar works - see pic. so you have machines with not as deep a skirt? imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 12:28 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Tom, where are you getting 35mm from? the flat bars are placed either 10 or 12 mm below the machine table surface. i cannot remember which one of these two match my machine but others swear by the 2nd number. imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 11:35 AM, tom@... wrote: ?Hi gang! I did a search for this topic and couldn't find much, if this has been discussed previously I'd appreciate your grace and a link to the discussion.?
As I'm very early into my journey acquiring "real" shop equipment, I'm having to make-do with some "lesser" machines until budget allows for more robust units. For Felder equipment, I currently own a Hammer A3-41 and HS-950, with a KF700SP arriving sometime in January 2021. So, I'm planning on getting into the Felder/Aigner table extension ecosystem, and have already acquired a Felder aluminum table extension with the leg support, along with a pair of the 400mm table extension support bars from Felder.? One of the intended uses of the aluminum table extension with leg support is for out feed support on my band saw, as well as for use with the Felder/Aigner circle cutting jig (band saw and edge sander).? The issue I'm bumping into is, the Felder table extension support bars seem intended for machines with cast iron tables that have at least a ~50mm+ tall apron (by my math, I think the centerline of the fasteners is ~35mm down from the table surface). Many of the machines I currently own have much shallower aprons, they all seem to be ~35mm deep.? -- For those who are using the Aigner support bars, can you please let me know what you think the minimum depth of apron is required to use them?? -- I see Felder sells a sort of "Universal" support bar, part # 1.0.150, but I can't find any information regarding how it mounts to a machine, and what the minimum apron thickness is? Does anybody have experience or a diagram??? -- If the above two products don't work out, I'm left with the option of either: ? ? ? A.) Bolting or welding 2" bar stock to the machine tables to act as a deeper apron and using the Felder or Aigner support bars, or? ? ? ? B.) Home-brewing my own extension bars that would accommodate the shallow (~35mm) aprons of my current machines. If I go with this option, it would likely necessitate using smaller diameter fasters, which in my mind would simple mean I'd need more (I'd probably use 4 or 5 support bolts for a 400mm bar, versus the 3 larger bolts Felder uses). I was thinking 1/4-20 bolts with 1/2" diameter spacers. I would also only use the table extension with a leg for these machines, not the tables which cantilever.? Any input or experience would be much appreciated.? Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
开云体育Oops! again. i only use pressure module on this aigner bar in bandsaw. actually, did not know until reading joe’s (not in NO) response that it won’t work with ext tables ?. so far i have not even attempt place one. Felder ones in dual51 are 40mm wide and i measure 47mm from top of jointer table to bottom of stand-off. stand-off is 20mm in dia. imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 12:42 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? tom, sorry i missed center line part. so yes ~35mm. my bandsaw table is 32mm and aigner bar works - see pic. so you have machines with not as deep a skirt? <image0.jpeg> imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 12:28 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ?
Tom, where are you getting 35mm from? the flat bars are placed either 10 or 12 mm below the machine table surface. i cannot remember which one of these two match my machine but others swear by the 2nd number. imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 11:35 AM, tom@... wrote: ?Hi gang! I did a search for this topic and couldn't find much, if this has been discussed previously I'd appreciate your grace and a link to the discussion.?
As I'm very early into my journey acquiring "real" shop equipment, I'm having to make-do with some "lesser" machines until budget allows for more robust units. For Felder equipment, I currently own a Hammer A3-41 and HS-950, with a KF700SP arriving sometime in January 2021. So, I'm planning on getting into the Felder/Aigner table extension ecosystem, and have already acquired a Felder aluminum table extension with the leg support, along with a pair of the 400mm table extension support bars from Felder.? One of the intended uses of the aluminum table extension with leg support is for out feed support on my band saw, as well as for use with the Felder/Aigner circle cutting jig (band saw and edge sander).? The issue I'm bumping into is, the Felder table extension support bars seem intended for machines with cast iron tables that have at least a ~50mm+ tall apron (by my math, I think the centerline of the fasteners is ~35mm down from the table surface). Many of the machines I currently own have much shallower aprons, they all seem to be ~35mm deep.? -- For those who are using the Aigner support bars, can you please let me know what you think the minimum depth of apron is required to use them?? -- I see Felder sells a sort of "Universal" support bar, part # 1.0.150, but I can't find any information regarding how it mounts to a machine, and what the minimum apron thickness is? Does anybody have experience or a diagram??? -- If the above two products don't work out, I'm left with the option of either: ? ? ? A.) Bolting or welding 2" bar stock to the machine tables to act as a deeper apron and using the Felder or Aigner support bars, or? ? ? ? B.) Home-brewing my own extension bars that would accommodate the shallow (~35mm) aprons of my current machines. If I go with this option, it would likely necessitate using smaller diameter fasters, which in my mind would simple mean I'd need more (I'd probably use 4 or 5 support bolts for a 400mm bar, versus the 3 larger bolts Felder uses). I was thinking 1/4-20 bolts with 1/2" diameter spacers. I would also only use the table extension with a leg for these machines, not the tables which cantilever.? Any input or experience would be much appreciated.? Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
开云体育I added the Aigner rails on a few of my machines. Per specification, the mounting hole centerline needs to be 30mm from top to support the Aigner extensions.? I did have a machine that needed the top extended to support this 30mm requirement. ?? ? Regards, ? Chris Perren ? ? ? From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2020 11:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [FOG] Home-brew table extension rails for off-brand machines ? Oops! again. i only use pressure module on this aigner bar in bandsaw. actually, did not know until reading joe’s (not in NO) response that it won’t work with ext tables ?. so far i have not even attempt place one. ? Felder ones in dual51 are 40mm wide and i measure 47mm from top of jointer table to bottom of stand-off. stand-off is 20mm in dia. ? imran
? tom, ? sorry i missed center line part. so yes ~35mm. my bandsaw table is 32mm and aigner bar works - see pic. ? so you have machines with not as deep a skirt? ? <image0.jpeg> ? ? imran
? Tom, ? where are you getting 35mm from? the flat bars are placed either 10 or 12 mm below the machine table surface. i cannot remember which one of these two match my machine but others swear by the 2nd number. ? imran
?Hi gang! I did a search for this topic and couldn't find much, if this has been discussed previously I'd appreciate your grace and a link to the discussion.? |
|
Thanks Joe, Imran, and Chris, ?this is all great information.?
Chris, that diagram is exactly what I was looking for. For reference, the band saw I'm currently using is a Laguna LT14 SUV, and has a table ~35mm in thickness. Going by the document you've scanned, it looks like the Aigner bars would?just work, I would just want to be careful that I'm only using table extensions with the leg support.? For reference, it looks like the Felder bars have the fastener centered 25mm below the top of the bar, which in turn should be ~11mm (10-12mm) below the table surface, so I'm inferring that the holes should be centered ~36mm below the table surface. Imran, you mentioned setting the bar 10-12mm below the table surface. Based on the Felder aluminum extension table, I was planning on setting the bar 11mm below table surface. That being said, yes in a perfect world I'd want all of the bars to match, do you know what the drop is on the Felder machines where the bar is integral/milled into the table surface? I have a KF700SP on order that I could measure, but it won't arrive until January and I'd like to get these bars installed before then.? -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
开云体育Tom, on 2 of my machines the top of F bar is 11mm below surface of machine table. i was going from memory so it is 11mm for me but others have stated that they mounted 10mm below. FWIW, the 40mm wide felder mounting bar center line is 35.5mm below jointer top as mounted on my machine (11mm top to top distance). imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 2:01 PM, tom@... wrote:
?Thanks Joe, Imran, and Chris, ?this is all great information.? Chris, that diagram is exactly what I was looking for. For reference, the band saw I'm currently using is a Laguna LT14 SUV, and has a table ~35mm in thickness. Going by the document you've scanned, it looks like the Aigner bars would?just work, I would just want to be careful that I'm only using table extensions with the leg support.? For reference, it looks like the Felder bars have the fastener centered 25mm below the top of the bar, which in turn should be ~11mm (10-12mm) below the table surface, so I'm inferring that the holes should be centered ~36mm below the table surface. <IMG_1104.jpeg> ?Imran, you mentioned setting the bar 10-12mm below the table surface. Based on the Felder aluminum extension table, I was planning on setting the bar 11mm below table surface. That being said, yes in a perfect world I'd want all of the bars to match, do you know what the drop is on the Felder machines where the bar is integral/milled into the table surface? I have a KF700SP on order that I could measure, but it won't arrive until January and I'd like to get these bars installed before then.? -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
|
After spending more time with the table extension and Felder mounting bars, I'm realizing that:
-- If I flip the mounting bars "upside down" so the fasteners are closer to the top of the bar, -- Use a smaller diameter spacer (stock is 20mm in diameter, I can can get on McMaster in 16mm diameter) -- The aluminum table extensions should just work, where I could mount it anywhere on the bar without worrying about interacting with the mounting bolts.? I'm still curious about the "standard" offset from the table surface to the top of the bar on Felder machines where the F-rail is integrated/milled into the table surface.... (EDIT: I'm just seeing now Imran's previous message, seeming to confirm 11mm offset) Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
|
Tom,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
“ I'm still curious about the "standard" offset from the table surface to the top of the bar on Felder machines where the F-rail is integrated/milled into the table” i was not clear but in my last response, the 11mm i mentioned is the distance on the cast/machined F couplings on KF700 and dual51 planet cast iron tables - as made by felder. Imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 3:10 PM, tom@... wrote:
I'm still curious about the "standard" offset from the table surface to the top of the bar on Felder machines where the F-rail is integrated/milled into the table |
|
Tom,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
the depth of lip on two of my ext tables measure 6.5mm. so if you can provide 7mm clearance then the tables should mount BUT i am curious why felder built it with more clearance on one side. perhaps it is to give more options but it could be for an accessory that requires more depth. maybe someone can chime in. imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 3:25 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
?Tom, “ I'm still curious about the "standard" offset from the table surface to the top of the bar on Felder machines where the F-rail is integrated/milled into the table” i was not clear but in my last response, the 11mm i mentioned is the distance on the cast/machined F couplings on KF700 and dual51 planet cast iron tables - as made by felder. Imran On Dec 5, 2020, at 3:10 PM, tom@... wrote: I'm still curious about the "standard" offset from the table surface to the top of the bar on Felder machines where the F-rail is integrated/milled into the table |
|
After some careful measurements and a dope-slap to the forehead, I realized that the Felder bars?just barely have enough clearance when mounted with the fasteners at the top of the bar, as opposed to the bottom as I was originally thinking (this is where a simple diagram from Felder would have been GREAT!!).?
So, after some drilling I was able to successfully mount a pair of 400mm bars to my Laguna LT14 SUV. With the fasteners at the top of the bar, the centerline of the fasteners winds up being 26mm below the table surface, which just works with the 35mm apron on the saw. With the aluminum table extensions set for the bar at 11mm below the table height, the "hook" part of the table?just clears the spacers, but only by a whisker.? On the LT14 SUV, the blade changes out the side of the table, so long term I'll want to space the bar out to at least 1.25" (I often use a Laguna 1" Resew King), and I'll need to remove the near-side bolt with every blade change, but I think the hassle is worth the utility of having the mounting bars.? Thank you again to Imran, Chris and Joe for their help!? -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN |
Tom Gensmer
imran
