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Will When you get things adjusted side to side it is a good idea to feed lumber right to left and than back left to right taking advantage of the whole machine and not wearing in one spot ,,,say center. Also trim ends and keep material clean and keep material off the floor. Your knives will last a lot longer. Mac,,, Designing and building for 47 years
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 12:54 PM, Will Smithee <wasmithee@...> wrote:
?
But the "it" in your sentence is not the same thing that Dave was referring to.? You are adjusting outfeed roller, no?? Dave was referring to pressure bar, which the A3 doesn't have.
Excellent point Mark.? Thanks for catching that.
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Your C3 31 is similar to my MinMax CU300 in that the planer table is supported by a single column.? It's hard to tell by looking at the pics, but it looks like there are 4 bolts at the bottom of the column...? ?So, have you checked to see if the 'table' is level/parallel with the cutter head?? (I had to shim the bolts on mine using copper shim material that I bought from Amazon).
Same thing with the shaper.? I had purchased a brand new set of Freeborn cope and style cutters and was getting a 'loose' fit.? I even sent the cutters into Freeborn to have them checked.? Turns out the shaper spindle was not perfectly perpendicular to the table and again, it needed some shimming.? I think anyone who purchases these types of machines needs to invest in some good straight edges and something like the Betterley Una-Gauge
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? ? These pieces are tall compared to width and length. If the infeed roller does not contact the entire leading edge at once it can easily pivot the material.
Unless I was using this type of material all the times, I think it is not a good size for setting up the machine. I would use ~1” to 2” thick board. 4” to 6” wide and at least 4’ long.
BTW, my Woodmaster did this skewing sometimes and I never worried.
Imran On Feb 22, 2020, at 6:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? From the video it appears the board kicks when it contacts the infeed or the cutterhead. I could not tell if it is kicking before wood contacts cutter head. So the board appears to have moved before outfeed is engaged. At least near I can tell from video. Not sure if A3 has high/low feed rate, low feed rate may help.
One can also hold the end of the board until it gets picked up by the infeed roller. Then let go and see if the cutter head contact makes the board kick or hold it until outfeed is engaged and let go then.
Again, it would be nice to know if long boards do the same.
Imran
On Feb 22, 2020, at 12:35 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
? I've not looked at the current A3 adjustment options.? The previous A3 gen (which I also had) did not have feed roller height adjustment, only spring pressure adjustment.? It's not clear to me what purpose roller height adjustment would serve.? The height adjustment would only seem to affect the amount of vertical travel before the roller is running on top of the board, but the thing that affects feed behavior is the amount of pressure applied, which is just a function of the spring adjustment.? On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:04 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
From: David Kumm <davekumm@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:01 PM
To: Will Smithee <wasmithee@...>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Hammer C3 31 - Setup Issues - Planer Snipe and Board Kick #hammer #jpsetup #spiralcutterhead
?
If you don't have a pressure bar, my advise was irrelevant.? A difference in spring pressure or height in the rollers could be a cause but I don't know what adjustments are available.? I have a Delta DC33 that I put a Byrd head on years ago and use once in
a while as a finishing planer.? Same crap design, roller, head, roller, but it leaves no snipe, leading or trailing.? You should be able to get decent results with a spiral head as it reduces the need for the better design.? Dave
Hi Dave, I've adjusted it per the instructions given by Felder making sure each side is "exactly" the same (my gauge goes down to 0.01mm accuracy), but I am also thinking that perhaps the 0.3mm delta between the cutter tip and the outfeed
roller perhaps is too much.? In other words perhaps it isn't just "kissing" the board but exerting too much force as exemplified in Mark Thomas's response just below yours with the cool graphic.? Oddly though at the same time, when I have had the highest tension
on the outfeed roller compared to the infeed roller I've seen less board kick.
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As illustrated in my drawing, it’s impossible for the rollers to contact all at once when the board is at far edge. The roller is applying more pressure on the inner edge of the board, then the cutter applies full width rearward force, causing the board to rotate about a point on the edge of the board.?
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 6:18 PM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ? ? These pieces are tall compared to width and length. If the infeed roller does not contact the entire leading edge at once it can easily pivot the material.
Unless I was using this type of material all the times, I think it is not a good size for setting up the machine. I would use ~1” to 2” thick board. 4” to 6” wide and at least 4’ long.
BTW, my Woodmaster did this skewing sometimes and I never worried.
Imran On Feb 22, 2020, at 6:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? From the video it appears the board kicks when it contacts the infeed or the cutterhead. I could not tell if it is kicking before wood contacts cutter head. So the board appears to have moved before outfeed is engaged. At least near I can tell from video. Not sure if A3 has high/low feed rate, low feed rate may help.
One can also hold the end of the board until it gets picked up by the infeed roller. Then let go and see if the cutter head contact makes the board kick or hold it until outfeed is engaged and let go then.
Again, it would be nice to know if long boards do the same.
Imran
On Feb 22, 2020, at 12:35 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
? I've not looked at the current A3 adjustment options.? The previous A3 gen (which I also had) did not have feed roller height adjustment, only spring pressure adjustment.? It's not clear to me what purpose roller height adjustment would serve.? The height adjustment would only seem to affect the amount of vertical travel before the roller is running on top of the board, but the thing that affects feed behavior is the amount of pressure applied, which is just a function of the spring adjustment.? On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:04 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
From: David Kumm <davekumm@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:01 PM
To: Will Smithee <wasmithee@...>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Hammer C3 31 - Setup Issues - Planer Snipe and Board Kick #hammer #jpsetup #spiralcutterhead
?
If you don't have a pressure bar, my advise was irrelevant.? A difference in spring pressure or height in the rollers could be a cause but I don't know what adjustments are available.? I have a Delta DC33 that I put a Byrd head on years ago and use once in
a while as a finishing planer.? Same crap design, roller, head, roller, but it leaves no snipe, leading or trailing.? You should be able to get decent results with a spiral head as it reduces the need for the better design.? Dave
Hi Dave, I've adjusted it per the instructions given by Felder making sure each side is "exactly" the same (my gauge goes down to 0.01mm accuracy), but I am also thinking that perhaps the 0.3mm delta between the cutter tip and the outfeed
roller perhaps is too much.? In other words perhaps it isn't just "kissing" the board but exerting too much force as exemplified in Mark Thomas's response just below yours with the cool graphic.? Oddly though at the same time, when I have had the highest tension
on the outfeed roller compared to the infeed roller I've seen less board kick.
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The only time I get snipe is when I forget to lock the table.? If
it? is unlocked the table can wiggle.
There's not a lot to do in setting the planer up.
I have broken my entire machine down? once when I was swapping
out the? cutter block for? shellix?? re assembling it was pretty
straightforward.
I am little?? confused at the? reference to feeler gauges.? What
are you doing with? feeler gauges?
I use a standard machinist's test indicator in a movable stand? I
set the jointer tables to be co planar and the? outfeed to be dead
even with the? TDC of the cutter.
No tapers no snipe? no issues.
On 2/20/20 4:16 PM, Will Smithee via
Groups.Io wrote:
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Show quoted text
I ordered my C3 31 on 12/29/2019; received it on 1/24/2020.? I've
been trying my level best to set it up and have not been able to
get the planer to stop kicking and/or sniping boards.? I've worked
with tech support and now a field tech has been working with me as
well over the phone and email.? I've been using very accurate
gauges (0.01 mm) and have sent photos and videos to the Felder
staff multiple times over the last few weeks without any success.?
I am at my wits' end with this machine.? I've filled a large dust
collector bag already with just the chips from attempting to
adjust this planer.? I'm about ready to tell Felder they can take
the machine back and I'll go with another brand.? I've setup other
machines previously and never had anywhere near this much trouble
and never had to spend more than 6 hours adjusting even much less
expensive and/or sometimes poorly built machines (Harbor Freight,
Grizzly, Dewalt, Steel City, Delta, etc.)
Has anyone else had problems like this or struggled this much to
get a new machine to work properly?
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Mark, similar but your illustration showed the affect of roller not being parallel to the table but what I am suggesting is possible with roller that is parallel and is much more likely to occur if the board is tall.
Main point being, I would not use what OP is using for setting up the machine. It is fine if he has done the basic calibration and is now trying to make further improvements. But we have not heard that.
Imran On Feb 22, 2020, at 7:36 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
? As illustrated in my drawing, it’s impossible for the rollers to contact all at once when the board is at far edge. The roller is applying more pressure on the inner edge of the board, then the cutter applies full width rearward force, causing the board to rotate about a point on the edge of the board.?
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 6:18 PM imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: ? ? These pieces are tall compared to width and length. If the infeed roller does not contact the entire leading edge at once it can easily pivot the material.
Unless I was using this type of material all the times, I think it is not a good size for setting up the machine. I would use ~1” to 2” thick board. 4” to 6” wide and at least 4’ long.
BTW, my Woodmaster did this skewing sometimes and I never worried.
Imran On Feb 22, 2020, at 6:25 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
? From the video it appears the board kicks when it contacts the infeed or the cutterhead. I could not tell if it is kicking before wood contacts cutter head. So the board appears to have moved before outfeed is engaged. At least near I can tell from video. Not sure if A3 has high/low feed rate, low feed rate may help.
One can also hold the end of the board until it gets picked up by the infeed roller. Then let go and see if the cutter head contact makes the board kick or hold it until outfeed is engaged and let go then.
Again, it would be nice to know if long boards do the same.
Imran
On Feb 22, 2020, at 12:35 AM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
? I've not looked at the current A3 adjustment options.? The previous A3 gen (which I also had) did not have feed roller height adjustment, only spring pressure adjustment.? It's not clear to me what purpose roller height adjustment would serve.? The height adjustment would only seem to affect the amount of vertical travel before the roller is running on top of the board, but the thing that affects feed behavior is the amount of pressure applied, which is just a function of the spring adjustment.? On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 11:04 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
From: David Kumm <davekumm@...>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 2:01 PM
To: Will Smithee <wasmithee@...>
Subject: Re: [FOG] Hammer C3 31 - Setup Issues - Planer Snipe and Board Kick #hammer #jpsetup #spiralcutterhead
?
If you don't have a pressure bar, my advise was irrelevant.? A difference in spring pressure or height in the rollers could be a cause but I don't know what adjustments are available.? I have a Delta DC33 that I put a Byrd head on years ago and use once in
a while as a finishing planer.? Same crap design, roller, head, roller, but it leaves no snipe, leading or trailing.? You should be able to get decent results with a spiral head as it reduces the need for the better design.? Dave
Hi Dave, I've adjusted it per the instructions given by Felder making sure each side is "exactly" the same (my gauge goes down to 0.01mm accuracy), but I am also thinking that perhaps the 0.3mm delta between the cutter tip and the outfeed
roller perhaps is too much.? In other words perhaps it isn't just "kissing" the board but exerting too much force as exemplified in Mark Thomas's response just below yours with the cool graphic.? Oddly though at the same time, when I have had the highest tension
on the outfeed roller compared to the infeed roller I've seen less board kick.
|
So I just watched the vid and it is a bit much but does it really matter? I have had it happen and I just push on it to straighten it out if I feel like it’s necessary for some reason. Does the hammer have the ability to adjust the rollers? Forget all the dial gauges for a minute and just start putting more or less pressure on one side or the other to get it to feed straight. Looks like you need to either reduce the pressure on the right or increase on the left Regards, Mark
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:31 PM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. <rohrabacher@...> wrote:
?
The only time I get snipe is when I forget to lock the table.? If
it? is unlocked the table can wiggle.
There's not a lot to do in setting the planer up.
I have broken my entire machine down? once when I was swapping
out the? cutter block for? shellix?? re assembling it was pretty
straightforward.
I am little?? confused at the? reference to feeler gauges.? What
are you doing with? feeler gauges?
I use a standard machinist's test indicator in a movable stand? I
set the jointer tables to be co planar and the? outfeed to be dead
even with the? TDC of the cutter.
No tapers no snipe? no issues.
On 2/20/20 4:16 PM, Will Smithee via
Groups.Io wrote:
I ordered my C3 31 on 12/29/2019; received it on 1/24/2020.? I've
been trying my level best to set it up and have not been able to
get the planer to stop kicking and/or sniping boards.? I've worked
with tech support and now a field tech has been working with me as
well over the phone and email.? I've been using very accurate
gauges (0.01 mm) and have sent photos and videos to the Felder
staff multiple times over the last few weeks without any success.?
I am at my wits' end with this machine.? I've filled a large dust
collector bag already with just the chips from attempting to
adjust this planer.? I'm about ready to tell Felder they can take
the machine back and I'll go with another brand.? I've setup other
machines previously and never had anywhere near this much trouble
and never had to spend more than 6 hours adjusting even much less
expensive and/or sometimes poorly built machines (Harbor Freight,
Grizzly, Dewalt, Steel City, Delta, etc.)
Has anyone else had problems like this or struggled this much to
get a new machine to work properly?
|
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 07:51 PM, imranindiana wrote:
but your illustration showed the affect of roller not being parallel to the table but what I am suggesting is possible with roller that is parallel and is much more likely to occur if the board is tall.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.? I wasn't intending to show a mis-adjusted roller.? The point is that the roller is pushed down on either end by a spring.? At rest, the roller is lower than the cutterhead by a couple millimeters.? ?So let's say the planned cut is 1mm.? ?So the roller (at rest parallel to planer)? is 3mm lower than the top edge of the board when you begin to feed.? When the roller contacts the board, the roller moves up under the spring pressure, but if the board is on one side, the roller will raise up at an angle, as shown in my drawing, and will at this point no longer be parallel to bed.? The roller is now placing pressure on the top of board only at the inner edge.? Hence the rotation when the cutterhead begins the rearward force.
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I don’t see anything wrong with the machine. The OP used possibly the worst possible combination to test, tall relatively narrow and putting them way off center. Try a 3 foot long piece of 1x6 run right down the middle.
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 10:35 PM, mark thomas < murkyd@...> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 07:51 PM, imranindiana wrote:
but your illustration showed the affect of roller not being parallel to the table but what I am suggesting is possible with roller that is parallel and is much more likely to occur if the board is tall.
Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear.? I wasn't intending to show a mis-adjusted roller.? The point is that the roller is pushed down on either end by a spring.? At rest, the roller is lower than the cutterhead by a couple millimeters.? ?So let's say the planned cut is 1mm.? ?So the roller (at rest parallel to planer)? is 3mm lower than the top edge of the board when you begin to feed.? When the roller contacts the board, the roller moves up under the spring pressure, but if the board is on one side, the roller will raise up at an angle, as shown in my drawing, and will at this point no longer be parallel to bed.? The roller is now placing pressure on the top of board only at the inner edge.? Hence the rotation when the cutterhead begins the rearward force.
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imran