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I ordered my C3 31 on 12/29/2019; received it on 1/24/2020.? I've been trying my level best to set it up and have not been able to get the thicknessing planer to stop kicking and/or sniping boards.? I've worked with tech support and now a field tech has been working with me as well over the phone and email.? I've been using very accurate gauges (0.01 mm) and have sent photos and videos to the Felder staff multiple times over the last few weeks without any success.?
I am at my wits' end with this machine.? I've filled a large dust collector bag already with just the chips from attempting to adjust this planer.? I'm about ready to tell Felder they can take the machine back and I'll go with another brand.? I've setup other machines previously and never had anywhere near this much trouble and never had to spend more than 6 hours adjusting even much less expensive and/or sometimes poorly built machines (Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Dewalt, Steel City, Delta, etc.)
Has anyone else had problems like this or struggled this much to get a new machine to work properly?
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Hi Willie,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? When I got my C3 31 the dealer couldn't commission it because the electrical lead was too short and couldn't reach my 16 amp socket!
Na?vely, I thought that didn't really matter as it would be all factory set--- wrong.
The jointer has broken my heart for three years by tapering everything that I fed into it. The answer was in the outfield table which was far too high. It was 25thou above the blades.
The manual doesn't give you all the directions required to adjust it and I snapped the head off the 17mm adjusting bolt on my first attempt, then I discovered two grub screws and a 19mm nut that needed loosened.
After I figured that out, I bought the outfeed table down until it sniped everything and then kept raising it until I dialled out the sniping. Then for the first time I was able to use a little piece of oak to move 2 to 3 millimetres as I turned the blades by hand when the two tables were complained and level.
Ever since it has worked like a charm. I hope this is some help.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland
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Hi Will,
Just to be sure, can you confirm that you are speaking of surface planner which most here on FOG will call Jointer. Yes, European terminology makes more sense but that is what we are stuck with here in USA.
Yes occasionally people here have reported frustration with setting up machines. If I was in your position, my first goal would be to determine if the machine is usable and has no manufacturing defect.?
From your description it appears you have the knowledge and experience so hopefully a hammer owner here can help. For starters, can you confirm that you have checked the individual tables for flatness and coplanarity? And how did you check them.
Here are couple of files from files section, that may help, if you have not already reviewed them.
Imran On Feb 21, 2020, at 2:43 AM, Will Smithee via Groups.Io <wasmithee@...> wrote:
?I ordered my C3 31 on 12/29/2019; received it on 1/24/2020.? I've been trying my level best to set it up and have not been able to get the planer to stop kicking and/or sniping boards.? I've worked with tech support and now a field tech has been working with me as well over the phone and email.? I've been using very accurate gauges (0.01 mm) and have sent photos and videos to the Felder staff multiple times over the last few weeks without any success.?
I am at my wits' end with this machine.? I've filled a large dust collector bag already with just the chips from attempting to adjust this planer.? I'm about ready to tell Felder they can take the machine back and I'll go with another brand.? I've setup other machines previously and never had anywhere near this much trouble and never had to spend more than 6 hours adjusting even much less expensive and/or sometimes poorly built machines (Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Dewalt, Steel City, Delta, etc.)
Has anyone else had problems like this or struggled this much to get a new machine to work properly?
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I have a A3-31, which is the jointer/planer model bolted to a saw to make the C3 combo.? ? Quite a few people here have A3-31 too.? ?I don't know what you mean that the planer is "kicking" boards.? Snipe is not an issue on mine.? I think most folks here who've talked about the A3-31 have been pretty happy with it (given the price point, obviously people who spend 3-5x as much on a Felder or Format are happier)? Perhaps you could be more specific about the problems?
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Make sure you glide your planner table a lot, my A31 is really sensitive to gliding products on the planer table to avoid "Kick". I also redid all the roller height setup compare to the cutterblock with hellical cutters.
I am still working on it to see if I got consistent result depending on the wood, so cannot say if what I have done is enough.
Looks A31 setup thread earlier that explains the technic for the Jointer part.
Bill
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Sorry for not being clear enough. I am speaking of the thicknessing planer, not the jointer.
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Board kick (This is the term used to describe this behavior by the Felder field tech) is when the board "kicks' to one side or the other when going through the thicknessing planer.? In my case when running a board through on the right side of the planer it kicks the back of the board to the left while the opposite is tru on the left... this is odd since if one of the rollers are tensioned too tight on the right side one would expect boards to kick that direction regardless of which side they are fed on.
Here is a poor quality video I shot of the behavior:?
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Hi Mark,? I as well have worked to align the roller heights with the cutter-block instead of the insert tips as that is a tricky and not very repeatable process.? I found that the inserts protrude 0.9mm from the cutter-block surface.? I then added that to the measurements supplied by Felder (0.9mm?on the in-feed became?1.8mm?and?0.3mm?on the out-feed became?1.2mm).? Hopefully I eventually will find the magic settings to make this work well.? I hope you've found the best settings for yours now.
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Usually when a board slants off on the outfeed it is due to the pressure bar before the outfeed roller being too low on one side.? It's purpose is to hold the stock to the table so it needs to be carefully adjusted to just kiss the stock after it passes the
head but not bind.? That may be part of the problem.? Dave
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Hi Mark,? I as well have worked to align the roller heights with the cutter-block instead of the insert tips as that is a tricky and not very repeatable process.? I found that the inserts protrude 0.9mm from the cutter-block surface.? I then added that to the
measurements supplied by Felder ( 0.9mm?on the in-feed became? 1.8mm?and ?0.3mm?on
the out-feed became? 1.2mm).? Hopefully I eventually will find the magic settings to make this work well.? I hope you've found the best settings for yours now.
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Thanks for explaining "kick".? I don't understand why this is a problem.? The solution is not to run boards on the side.? Run them in the middle. To some degree, this behavior is inevitable with a solid roller.? Perfectly even tension on the roller will not prevent it.? It is caused by the rollers not making even contact across across the width of the board.? Maybe this drawing helps.? See recent other planer thread with picture of segmented rollers, a (much more expensive) design that won't have this behavior.?? 
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On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 09:05 AM, David Kumm wrote:
pressure bar before the outfeed roller being too low on one side
The A3 isn't that class of equipment -- there is no pressure bar.? It's simply infeed roller, cutterhead, outfeed roller. I think it's impossible to "tune" an A3 to not exhibit this behavior.? ?But it's not hard to feed boards in the middle of planer ;-)
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On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 10:43 AM, Will Smithee wrote:
Here is a poor quality video I shot of the behavior
Never experience this kind of kicks yet. I tried 2x4 on the right and left side and both went through the planer without any right or left kick. My kick was up kick. Bill
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I think the hammers do have what Felder calls a pressure shoe (aka pressure bar). Looks like it in the pics anyways. Doesn’t look like it has the adjustments on the outfeed side that the ad941 has though? Regards, Mark
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 12:29 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 09:05 AM, David Kumm wrote:
pressure bar before the outfeed roller being too low on one side
The A3 isn't that class of equipment -- there is no pressure bar.? It's simply infeed roller, cutterhead, outfeed roller. I think it's impossible to "tune" an A3 to not exhibit this behavior.? ?But it's not hard to feed boards in the middle of planer ;-)
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Will, just curious, does a long board do the same? It is probably not recommended or safe but when feeding short material I keep down pressure on the end of the board so the back end of the board won’t lift as it gets picked up by the infeed roller. I also do the same when they exit. Long boards have enough weight so I do not worry. This is a habit I developed with my first planer and probably need to stop doing that with Dual51. I am not recommending this practice.
Imran On Feb 21, 2020, at 9:56 PM, Will Smithee <wasmithee@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
Hi Mark,? I as well have worked to align the roller heights with the cutter-block instead of the insert tips as that is a tricky and not very repeatable process.? I found that the inserts protrude 0.9mm from the cutter-block surface.? I then added that to the measurements supplied by Felder ( 0.9mm?on the in-feed became? 1.8mm?and ?0.3mm?on the out-feed became? 1.2mm).? Hopefully I eventually will find the magic settings to make this work well.? I hope you've found the best settings for yours now.
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I dunno know about pictures you're using, but I have the machine and I assure you it has no pressure bar. If you think about the mechanics, it's pretty clear that the tendency to kick is dependent on the differential friction between the infeed and outfeed rollers, the friction of wood against the bed, and the rearward force of the cutting (depth of cut, density of wood, etc), and of course, these factors will be affected by the length of the board (amount of contact with bed).??
Maybe under ideal conditions it will rarely occur.? Maybe Mark can get this FEA team to study it ;-)
But maybe, just maybe, if you feed boards in the middle, the problem will go away.
I think the hammers do have what Felder calls a pressure shoe (aka pressure bar). Looks like it in the pics anyways. Doesn’t look like it has the adjustments on the outfeed side that the ad941 has though? Regards, Mark On Feb 21, 2020, at 12:29 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 09:05 AM, David Kumm wrote:
pressure bar before the outfeed roller being too low on one side
The A3 isn't that class of equipment -- there is no pressure bar.? It's simply infeed roller, cutterhead, outfeed roller. I think it's impossible to "tune" an A3 to not exhibit this behavior.? ?But it's not hard to feed boards in the middle of planer ;-)
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Hi David, I've adjusted it per the instructions given by Felder making sure each side is "exactly" the same (my gauge goes down to 0.01mm accuracy), but I am also thinking that perhaps the 0.3mm delta between the cutter tip and the outfeed roller perhaps is too much.? In other words perhaps it isn't just "kissing" the board but exerting too much force as exemplified in Mark Thomas's response just below yours with the cool graphic.? Oddly though at the same time, when I have had the highest tension on the outfeed roller compared to the infeed roller I've seen less board kick.
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Well I’ll be darned I thought I saw the bent sheet steel “pressure shoe” in the hammers, guess I was darn wrong.
Gona get the FEA team on it, they have nothing better to do than serve my needs...? Regards, Mark
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On Feb 21, 2020, at 12:54 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
? I dunno know about pictures you're using, but I have the machine and I assure you it has no pressure bar. If you think about the mechanics, it's pretty clear that the tendency to kick is dependent on the differential friction between the infeed and outfeed rollers, the friction of wood against the bed, and the rearward force of the cutting (depth of cut, density of wood, etc), and of course, these factors will be affected by the length of the board (amount of contact with bed).??
Maybe under ideal conditions it will rarely occur.? Maybe Mark can get this FEA team to study it ;-)
But maybe, just maybe, if you feed boards in the middle, the problem will go away.
I think the hammers do have what Felder calls a pressure shoe (aka pressure bar). Looks like it in the pics anyways. Doesn’t look like it has the adjustments on the outfeed side that the ad941 has though? Regards, Mark On Feb 21, 2020, at 12:29 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 09:05 AM, David Kumm wrote:
pressure bar before the outfeed roller being too low on one side
The A3 isn't that class of equipment -- there is no pressure bar.? It's simply infeed roller, cutterhead, outfeed roller. I think it's impossible to "tune" an A3 to not exhibit this behavior.? ?But it's not hard to feed boards in the middle of planer ;-)
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On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 09:58 AM, Will Smithee wrote:
Hi David, I've adjusted it per the instructions given by Felder making sure each side is "exactly" the same
But the "it" in your sentence is not the same thing that Dave was referring to.? You are adjusting outfeed roller, no?? Dave was referring to pressure bar, which the A3 doesn't have.
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A picture is worth a thousand words: 
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But the "it" in your sentence is not the same thing that Dave was referring to.? You are adjusting outfeed roller, no?? Dave was referring to pressure bar, which the A3 doesn't have.
Excellent point Mark.? Thanks for catching that.
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imran