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Hey group, I have a brand new K700S with power drive. ?I currently use GrnGate automated blast gates for all of my dust control. ?The gates open and close based on which machines electrical current is drawing power. ?It’s always been a very dependable system and worked great on my previous American cabinet saw (Powermatic). ?But now with the new slider having power drive built into it, anytime I raise or tilt the blade, the cable sensor must be picking up the current draw and proceeds to open the blast gate and turn on my dust collector for short moments of time. ?Would anybody have a solution fix for this? ?I may be out of luck I know, but just wanted to check with the group and see if anybody has experienced this or has heard of maybe a fix. ?I thought I had read somewhere that my slider could be integrated with a dust collector. ?But can’t remember if I read that correctly or even where I saw that. ? Pictures attached of my set up. Thx, Wade    
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Hi Wade,
?
I am not familiar with GrnGate but I would be very surprised if they don’t have the adjustment for current. Read their guide and most likely you have an adjustment so the gates only operate when you have the large current - I have a slow internet connection and I saw the pics after replying. I cannot see the other side of the pickup. So not sure if it has an adjustment screw. It is possible that such adjustment is done at the control board as opposed to at pickup coil.
?
The other possible option that might work would be to move the pickup coil to the phase (assuming 3 phase) that only goes to the main motors. This is usually the case with Felder that they use two phases for internal voltages and the 3rd for motor only. I see your pictures and this option would require you to either move the pickup coil to inside the machine (requires Felder permission) or would require the cable to go thru an appropriate enclosure where you can only place only 1 wire in the coil. Definitely, this approach needs to be confirmed with the manufacturer or a user here due to logistics involved.
?
Imran
On Feb 9, 2022, at 1:13 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
Hey group,
I have a brand new K700S with power drive. ?I currently use GrnGate automated blast gates for all of my dust control. ?The gates open and close based on which machines electrical current is drawing power. ?It’s always been a very dependable system and worked great on my previous American cabinet saw (Powermatic). ?But now with the new slider having power drive built into it, anytime I raise or tilt the blade, the cable sensor must be picking up the current draw and proceeds to open the blast gate and turn on my dust collector for short moments of time. ?Would anybody have a solution fix for this? ?I may be out of luck I know, but just wanted to check with the group and see if anybody has experienced this or has heard of maybe a fix. ?I thought I had read somewhere that my slider could be integrated with a dust collector. ?But can’t remember if I read that correctly or even where I saw that. ? Pictures attached of my set up.
Thx,
Wade
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GrnGate has apparently ceased operations, although their website is still online for support reasons.? Looking at their manual I see the following:
NOTE: Some power tools including the SawStop table saw and certain European tools have an electronics control system. In these cases the sensor must be attached AFTER the control box, ideally directly on the cable going to the motor. Otherwise it is possible to incur erratic sensing and collector operation due to a constant current being drawn by the control system.
So perhaps you need to change where that sensor is placed on your machine.
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I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful. ?Thanks, Jerry
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I also have a home made auto start dust collector system. I use it with KF700, Dual51 and K975. I have a single pickup coil installed inside PhasePerfect that is dialed in for the smallest motor (3KW - KF700). No DC startup when I adjust table height on Dual51 or blade height on K975. I use this coil, was around $20 few yrs ago.
This requires the wire to be disconnected and routed thru but there are also open core models that are clamshell style and are easier to install on difficult to remove wires.
Here us a short video of Dual 51 table movement with no dust collector trigger.
Imran
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 11:47 AM, mccrery@... wrote: ?I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful. ?Thanks, Jerry
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I used to use the Ecogate current sensors but found them not 100% reliable. I’ve since gone to putting physical relays in each machine that close when current runs to the motor itself.?
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 10:07 AM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I also have a home made auto start dust collector system. I use it with KF700, Dual51 and K975. I have a single pickup coil installed inside PhasePerfect that is dialed in for the smallest motor (3KW - KF700). No DC startup when I adjust table height on Dual51 or blade height on K975. I use this coil, was around $20 few yrs ago.
This requires the wire to be disconnected and routed thru but there are also open core models that are clamshell style and are easier to install on difficult to remove wires.
Here us a short video of Dual 51 table movement with no dust collector trigger.
Imran
On Feb 9, 2022, at 11:47 AM, mccrery@... wrote:
?I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful. ?Thanks, Jerry
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That was a bad example as the coil is on T3 of the PP and there may not be any current on T3 when I adjust the table. Still I think it is a good sensor. You get the feel for it’s sensitivity as you play with the set screw and see the lights which indicate drop in and drop out of the relay.
Imran
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 12:07 PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? I also have a home made auto start dust collector system. I use it with KF700, Dual51 and K975. I have a single pickup coil installed inside PhasePerfect that is dialed in for the smallest motor (3KW - KF700). No DC startup when I adjust table height on Dual51 or blade height on K975. I use this coil, was around $20 few yrs ago.
This requires the wire to be disconnected and routed thru but there are also open core models that are clamshell style and are easier to install on difficult to remove wires.
Here us a short video of Dual 51 table movement with no dust collector trigger.
Imran
On Feb 9, 2022, at 11:47 AM, mccrery@... wrote:
?I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful. ?Thanks, Jerry
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This is the sensor I use to trigger the dust extractor and open the appropriate blast gate - Hawkeye 608. ?It has been very reliable used in conjunction with the Ecogate Greenbox 12 controller. ?Available on Amazon and other sites for about $32.
This is a clam-shell design that is easily clamped around any AC power cable and will trigger the relay to close when it senses current flowing. ?I have this clamped around one of the 3-wires going to the 3-phase motors on all my Felder equipment.
It has an adjustment for sensitivity and an LED indicator that lights when the relay is activated.
I also used this on my router table clamped around the entire power cord to the router, and provisioned it with a disconnect cable. ?All those details are shown here: ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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I also have a home made auto start dust collector system. I use it with KF700, Dual51 and K975. I have a single pickup coil installed inside PhasePerfect that is dialed in for the smallest motor (3KW - KF700). No DC startup when I adjust table height on Dual51 or blade height on K975. I use this coil, was around $20 few yrs ago.
This requires the wire to be disconnected and routed thru but there are also open core models that are clamshell style and are easier to install on difficult to remove wires.
Here us a short video of Dual 51 table movement with no dust collector trigger.
Imran ?I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful. ?Thanks, Jerry
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Thank you Imran & Steve. ?Your onto something here. ?I’ll get a longer phone cord and try to locate this sensor inside the cabinet of the saw. ?And install onto a cable that leads just to the motor.
Thank you!
Wade
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 4:58 AM, Steve Wurster <steven.m.wurster@...> wrote:
?GrnGate has apparently ceased operations, although their website is still online for support reasons.? Looking at their manual I see the following:
NOTE: Some power tools including the SawStop table saw and certain European tools have an electronics control system. In these cases the sensor must be attached AFTER the control box, ideally directly on the cable going to the motor. Otherwise it is possible to incur erratic sensing and collector operation due to a constant current being drawn by the control system.
So perhaps you need to change where that sensor is placed on your machine.
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Wade,
You may first see if there is a current trim screw. That would make your job much easier.
Since it is a saw only machine you do have a choice to go to the motor with single sensor. However, my preference would be to place it in the electrical cabinet away from dust and vibration. Again, you need to contact Felder if you are going yo access the electrical cabinet.
Imran
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 2:56 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote: ? Thank you Imran & Steve. ?Your onto something here. ?I’ll get a longer phone cord and try to locate this sensor inside the cabinet of the saw. ?And install onto a cable that leads just to the motor.
Thank you!
Wade On Feb 9, 2022, at 4:58 AM, Steve Wurster <steven.m.wurster@...> wrote:
?GrnGate has apparently ceased operations, although their website is still online for support reasons.? Looking at their manual I see the following:
NOTE: Some power tools including the SawStop table saw and certain European tools have an electronics control system. In these cases the sensor must be attached AFTER the control box, ideally directly on the cable going to the motor. Otherwise it is possible to incur erratic sensing and collector operation due to a constant current being drawn by the control system.
So perhaps you need to change where that sensor is placed on your machine.
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Imran,
I have a single phase machine.?
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 3:48 AM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? [Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Updated upon reviewing pictures]
?
Hi Wade,
?
I am not familiar with GrnGate but I would be very surprised if they don’t have the adjustment for current. Read their guide and most likely you have an adjustment so the gates only operate when you have the large current - I have a slow internet connection and I saw the pics after replying. I cannot see the other side of the pickup. So not sure if it had the adjustment switch. It is possible that such adjustment is done at the control board as opposed to at pickup coil.
?
The other possible option that might work would be to move the pickup coil to the phase (assuming 3 phase) that only goes to the main motors. This is usually the case with Felder that they use two phases for internal voltages and the 3rd for motor only. I see your pictures and this option would require you to either move the pickup coil to inside the machine (requires Felder permission) or would require the cable to go thru an appropriate enclosure where you can only place ?only 1 wire in the coil. Definitely, this approach needs to be confirmed with the manufacturer or a user here due to logistics involved.
?
Imran
On Feb 9, 2022, at 1:13 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
Hey group, I have a brand new K700S with power drive. ?I currently use GrnGate automated blast gates for all of my dust control. ?The gates open and close based on which machines electrical current is drawing power. ?It’s always been a very dependable system and worked great on my previous American cabinet saw (Powermatic). ?But now with the new slider having power drive built into it, anytime I raise or tilt the blade, the cable sensor must be picking up the current draw and proceeds to open the blast gate and turn on my dust collector for short moments of time. ?Would anybody have a solution fix for this? ?I may be out of luck I know, but just wanted to check with the group and see if anybody has experienced this or has heard of maybe a fix. ?I thought I had read somewhere that my slider could be integrated with a dust collector. ?But can’t remember if I read that correctly or even where I saw that. ? Pictures attached of my set up. Thx, Wade    
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i had a similar issue using the ivac system with my AD741. i solved it by taking the back panel off and attaching the sensor inside the machine to the motor rather than the main power cord, so it only triggers when turn the machine on, not when I raise or lower the table. I don't have that saw, and your automatic blast gate system is a different setup, but I wonder if you could do something similar?
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sorry, in my sleep deprived state I'm having trouble putting sentences together. what I meant to say is the sensor is on the power cable that supplies the motor.?
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I use the? Auto-Perambulant automatic blast gate.
When I need one open, I perambulate on over to it and
automatically open it.
On 2/9/22 12:19 PM, Joe Jensen wrote:
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I used to use the Ecogate current sensors but found them not 100%
reliable. I’ve since gone to putting physical relays in each
machine that close when current runs to the motor itself.?
?
I also have a home made auto start dust
collector system. I use it with KF700, Dual51 and K975. I
have a single pickup coil installed inside PhasePerfect that
is dialed in for the smallest motor (3KW - KF700). No DC
startup when I adjust table height on Dual51 or blade height
on K975. I use this coil, was around $20 few yrs ago.
This requires the wire to be disconnected and
routed thru but there are also open core models that are
clamshell style and are easier to install on difficult to
remove wires.
Here us a short video of Dual 51 table movement
with no dust collector trigger.
Imran
?I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust
collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a
Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector
operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A
similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful.
?Thanks, Jerry
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David, if you clamped the CT around the entire router cord your total current should be zero (amps in (hot) - amps out (neutral)). I'm confused as to how that could possibly work reliably without separating the conductors. When I've done this in the past I just see a brief "on" signal as the field is established in the motor. Then the currents balance and the current signal goes away.?
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 ??All I can tell you is that it works reliably in triggering my Ecogate Greenbox 12 controller. ?I do remember adjusting the sensitivity. ?The router is a PC 7519.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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David, if you clamped the CT around the entire router cord your total current should be zero (amps in (hot) - amps out (neutral)). I'm confused as to how that could possibly work reliably without separating the conductors. When I've done this in the past I just see a brief "on" signal as the field is established in the motor. Then the currents balance and the current signal goes away.?
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Thank you David. ?Definitely going to try and locate the sensor inside the cabinet, closer to the motor.
Thx,
Wade
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 2:55 PM, David Blehar via groups.io <davidblehar@...> wrote:
?i had a similar issue using the ivac system with my AD741. i solved it by taking the back panel off and attaching the sensor inside the machine to the motor rather than the main power cord, so it only triggers when turn the machine on, not when I raise or lower the table. I don't have that saw, and your automatic blast gate system is a different setup, but I wonder if you could do something similar?
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 2:58 PM, David Blehar via groups.io <davidblehar@...> wrote:
?sorry, in my sleep deprived state I'm having trouble putting sentences together. what I meant to say is the sensor is on the power cable that supplies the motor.?
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? okay…that works too! ???
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 4:22 PM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. via groups.io <rohrabacher@...> wrote:
?
I use the? Auto-Perambulant automatic blast gate.
When I need one open, I perambulate on over to it and
automatically open it.
On 2/9/22 12:19 PM, Joe Jensen wrote:
I used to use the Ecogate current sensors but found them not 100%
reliable. I’ve since gone to putting physical relays in each
machine that close when current runs to the motor itself.?
?
I also have a home made auto start dust
collector system. I use it with KF700, Dual51 and K975. I
have a single pickup coil installed inside PhasePerfect that
is dialed in for the smallest motor (3KW - KF700). No DC
startup when I adjust table height on Dual51 or blade height
on K975. I use this coil, was around $20 few yrs ago.
This requires the wire to be disconnected and
routed thru but there are also open core models that are
clamshell style and are easier to install on difficult to
remove wires.
Here us a short video of Dual 51 table movement
with no dust collector trigger.
Imran
?I use a custom-made automatic blast gate dust
collection system. ?I recently replaced my jointer with a
Felder AD 741; both the blast-gate & dust collector
operate only briefly when the 741 is switched on. ? A
similar issue? ?Adjusting the pick-up coil was not helpful.
?Thanks, Jerry
|
Hey Steve,
I contacted Chuck, over at GrnGate. ?He made up a new, longer, sensor cable so that I could route this into the saw cabinet. ?I connected it right to the power cable going directly to the main saw motor and problem solved! ?Thank you for the tip.
Wade
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On Feb 9, 2022, at 4:58 AM, Steve Wurster <steven.m.wurster@...> wrote:
?GrnGate has apparently ceased operations, although their website is still online for support reasons.? Looking at their manual I see the following:
NOTE: Some power tools including the SawStop table saw and certain European tools have an electronics control system. In these cases the sensor must be attached AFTER the control box, ideally directly on the cable going to the motor. Otherwise it is possible to incur erratic sensing and collector operation due to a constant current being drawn by the control system.
So perhaps you need to change where that sensor is placed on your machine.
|
imran
Joe Jensen
David P. Best