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Way off topic and polling the superior knowledge base of the FOG.? Framing has commenced on our retirement house and now we're needing to decide on kitchen appliances.? Any opinions on high-end kitchen appliances?? We're looking at Thermador Freedom and Wolf induction and possibly Blue Star or Wolf wall ovens.
Thanks
Dave Davies
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I was looking at Blue Star when I rebuilt my kitchen.? Despite the fact that they are manufactured literally within a stone's throw of me, I was told there was no one to service their products here and it was strongly recommended I buy GE Monogram instead.? I did, and regret it.? If you have someone capable of servicing within a reasonable distance or are comfortable doing so, I'd go with Blue Star.? I have a Thermador gas cooktop, which I love.? I have been using their rangetops since I originally learned to cook as a 9 year old, 60+ years ago.??
I have no experience with Wolf products other than in industrial kitchens.? I have personally previously had Dacor which I liked a lot.? Jeff
On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 7:15?PM David Davies via <myfinishingtouch= [email protected]> wrote: Way off topic and polling the superior knowledge base of the FOG.? Framing has commenced on our retirement house and now we're needing to decide on kitchen appliances.? Any opinions on high-end kitchen appliances?? We're looking at Thermador Freedom and Wolf induction and possibly Blue Star or Wolf wall ovens.
Thanks
Dave Davies
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I have a Blue Star range and love it. ?I use the oven all the time. ?I¡¯ve had this one 14 years now and have had zero issues or service needs. ?I particularly like the bearing roller racks when doing cakes and souffl¨¦ - this may be an optional upgrade on the Blue Star (can¡¯t remember). ?It¡¯s a great value compared to the Wolf. ?
I got the range rather than separate cooktop since I do a lot of cooking with the wok and wanted 22,000 BTU burners and the ability to mount the wok properly without the use of a ring. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 31, 2024, at 4:15?PM, David Davies via groups.io <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
Way off topic and polling the superior knowledge base of the FOG.? Framing has commenced on our retirement house and now we're needing to decide on kitchen appliances.? Any opinions on high-end kitchen appliances?? We're looking at Thermador Freedom and Wolf induction and possibly Blue Star or Wolf wall ovens.
Thanks
Dave Davies
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I have had two induction cooktops, both the GE four-element versions. I have looked at other options, like the Wolf, but liked the GE better for two reasons: (1) the GE has a smooth top and the Wolf seemed to be textured. The GE was available without a trim piece around the edge, which makes cleanup easier. (2) The GE controls step from 1/2 to 9 1/2 by 1/2 increments, where the Wolf had fewer steps. That is a big deal for me when controlling a simmer or keeping a pot of spuds from boiling over.
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The GE was available in a four-element model and a five-element model. Very rarely I do wish I had one more element!
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This was 10 years ago, so products may have changed.
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We sure love the induction cooktops. Fast, controllable, and clean.
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One of the features we were almost forced into with the first installation was putting the cooktop some distance from the oven. It was a minor remodel, and that solved an awkward relationship between the sink and the cooktop. Turned out to be an excellent choice, and we did that again when we built our current house. Cooking and baking are two separate activities, so separating them is quite convenient.
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The oven is under the countertop, rather than a wall installation. I like that, particularly for moving things that might spill. Getting a full pie off the counter and straight down into the oven is easier than trying to lift and move sideways, in my opinion.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Not appliance-related but it is kitchen-related: we put no doors in the lowers. All base units have drawers, so no bending or squatting to get something out of the back of a low cabinet.
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That does require using better hardware, as you¡¯ll wind up loading some of those drawers pretty heavily. My builder used undermount hardware by Gras, and they are really disappointing.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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I recently did a bunch of induction cooktop research.?? With your high budget, I would likely consider a couple of the Cooktek commercial drop-in induction burners:
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A single Cooktek burner requires either 2500 or 3500 watts (which means 4 burners will need 240V AC circuit capable of 10,000 to 14,000 watts - essentially a 240V 60A circuit).
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One of the specified characteristics is "even heat distribution across bottom of cookware".? This means that the induction coil is a pretty large size.?? It is not commonly known that most consumer level induction coils are only 4" and the commercial coils are usually only 6".?? Based on these prices and pics, I'm thinking the Cooktek are upwards of 8" or so:
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Gas and Induction ranges behave differently and require slightly different cooking techniques.? I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different.? Obviously, induction requires a steel composition pan.? It won't work at all with aluminum pans.
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Adding a Cooktek video that shows their induction coils are actually very large and very dense (with no gaps in the copper induction coil).? This really ensures even heat across the entire bottom of the pan:
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-Aaron Inami
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We had a Thermador oven in our place for 10 years, before it ¡®crapped¡¯ out. ?The electronic control panel failed. ?Several of my clients had the same issues with Dacor and Viking. ?We now suggest ¡®opening¡¯ the oven door after using it, and avoid using the self cleaning feature.?
A couple of our customers have also cracked their induction tops by accident. ?It¡¯s pretty hard to damage a gas grill top, and it works in a power outage.
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I was going to buy a Blue Star drop in for our new house, but ended up with a 50¡¯s Wedgewood that came out of a remodel. ?Once you use roller shelves in a oven, it¡¯s all over¡
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If you¡¯re building in the NW, ?Eastbank Appliances is a recommended vendor¡
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Mike
M.E. Blake General Contractors?
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John, I agree with your drawers in the lowers.? That's what we're going with as well.
Blue Star endorsers...Marie's sister also recommended Blue Star so with the positive reviews here I think that's one decision made.
Aaron, I wonder how people put the cooktek in a home if they want more than two hobs.? Marie has been cooking on a Volrath induction countertop for several years and is comfortable with induction cooking.? Our new home won't have gas so we're stuck with electric.
It's amazing to me how quickly framing goes up.? This is two days of work.
Dave Davies
We had a Thermador oven in our place for 10 years, before it ¡®crapped¡¯ out.? The electronic control panel failed.? Several of my clients had the same issues with Dacor and Viking.? We now suggest ¡®opening¡¯ the oven door after using it, and avoid using the self cleaning feature.?
A couple of our customers have also cracked their induction tops by accident.? It¡¯s pretty hard to damage a gas grill top, and it works in a power outage.
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I was going to buy a Blue Star drop in for our new house, but ended up with a 50¡¯s Wedgewood that came out of a remodel.? Once you use roller shelves in a oven, it¡¯s all over¡
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If you¡¯re building in the NW, ?Eastbank Appliances is a recommended vendor¡
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Mike
M.E. Blake General Contractors?
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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David,
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The Cooktek solution would definitely require a custom counter cutout/build.? If you wanted 4 burners, you would just put in two of the dual-hob units. Thinking about the 5,000/7,000 watt requirement, each dual-hob unit might require a separate circuit (not sure if you want a 60A or 80A circuit going to a stove).
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Cooktek does make a 4-burner and 6-burner range, but it's not really a drop-in solution and it also requires 3-phase power:
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The Cooktek proposal is just an idea.? It could be that the Thermador/Wolf induction are good too, but I just have no information on those products.
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-Aaron
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John,
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We completed the renovation of our kitchen ten years ago (it took a while, but that¡¯s a story for another time¡). All drawers on the bottom units. We used Blum Movento hardware. Two pairs failed (the soft close function stopped working) a few months ago. No problem with any of the other 17 pairs. Blum replaced the failed units under warranty.
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Let me know if you have questions.
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Regards,
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Jacques
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Refrigerators...granted it's been a couple of decades since I've bought a refrigerator but when did they get so expensive? Dave Davies On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 9:51?PM Jacques Gagnon via <jacques.gagnon309= [email protected]> wrote:
John,
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We completed the renovation of our kitchen ten years ago (it took a while, but that¡¯s a story for another time¡). All drawers on the bottom units. We used Blum Movento hardware. Two pairs failed (the soft close function stopped working) a few months ago. No problem with any of the other 17 pairs. Blum replaced the failed units under warranty.
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Let me know if you have questions.
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Regards,
?
Jacques
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Refrigerators got expensive about the same time they became so computerized. Our 10-year-old fridge went in the fritz a month ago. The repair guy plugged a cord into a port at the top of the refrigerator, and his hand-held device told him exactly what the problem was. The entire diagnostic process was about a minute.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Last set of tires I bought at Costco was C$900 in Mar, 2021. Now, it is C$1500. That is 50% more. Everything is getting a lot more expensive than before. I just do not believe the?inflation data reported by the government, it is completely a lie?and BS. You should buy all the major items for your new house before Jan 20.?
James
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 10:26?AM David Davies via <myfinishingtouch= [email protected]> wrote: Refrigerators...granted it's been a couple of decades since I've bought a refrigerator but when did they get so expensive? Dave Davies
On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 9:51?PM Jacques Gagnon via <jacques.gagnon309= [email protected]> wrote: John,
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We completed the renovation of our kitchen ten years ago (it took a while, but that¡¯s a story for another time¡). All drawers on the bottom units. We used Blum Movento hardware. Two pairs failed (the soft close function stopped working) a few months ago. No problem with any of the other 17 pairs. Blum replaced the failed units under warranty.
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Let me know if you have questions.
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Regards,
?
Jacques
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Agreed. Took my wife in to buy new kitchen package and love all the new?stuff but $12K for just the fridge!?
Went to my local Commercial Supply and paid $1500 tax incl delivered.??
Brian? Retired fine custom homebuilder
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025, 8:26?AM David Davies via <myfinishingtouch= [email protected]> wrote: Refrigerators...granted it's been a couple of decades since I've bought a refrigerator but when did they get so expensive? Dave Davies
On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 9:51?PM Jacques Gagnon via <jacques.gagnon309= [email protected]> wrote: John,
?
We completed the renovation of our kitchen ten years ago (it took a while, but that¡¯s a story for another time¡). All drawers on the bottom units. We used Blum Movento hardware. Two pairs failed (the soft close function stopped working) a few months ago. No problem with any of the other 17 pairs. Blum replaced the failed units under warranty.
?
Let me know if you have questions.
?
Regards,
?
Jacques
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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I wonder how long it would take the govt to mandate a std like they did for automotive on-board diagnostics. Maybe it is already done.
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On Jan 1, 2025, at 10:31?AM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote: ? Refrigerators got expensive about the same time they became so computerized. Our 10-year-old fridge went in the fritz a month ago. The repair guy plugged a cord into a port at the top of the refrigerator, and his hand-held device told him exactly what the problem was. The entire diagnostic process was about a minute.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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You are in one of the fun parts of building a new house, Dave! The hard part is waiting for it to finish, and then dealing with errors and warrantee issues.
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For refrigerators we opted for the French door style, with a freezer drawer at the bottom. My wife was adamant that we get that style, and it turned out to be a good choice.
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i did not want the fridge protruding I to the kitchen, or to get a counter-depth model, so we just framed the kitchen wall with a recess to let the fridge sit a bit deeper. Cheap solution to a minor problem.
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I wanted a fridge with door panels to match the cabinets, but my wife did not want to do that.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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We have a 48" Dacor gas/electric range and a 42" Dacor built-in refrigerator. The oven(s) frequently refuse to hold correct temperature, stubbornly maintaining exactly 20-30¡ã low. Though, sometimes being exactly right. The infuriating thing is that if you set it to 500¡ã+ to kick on the preheat, the temp reads exactly correctly as it starts to climb, so the thing knows what the current temperature is. Not a calibration issue.
We love the extra space on the six burner cooktop, which is why we choose Dacor over Thermador or others. Most 48" ranges have 8 "small" burners. But the oven issue is massively annoying and we fought it constantly. Not great for a $12k appliance?
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The fridge is made by Samsung and I've already had to put in a new compressor at 5 years which isn't great for a $10k fridge. My last Sears Kenmore was still going strong at 15 years. Other than that, we like it.?
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I suspect all the brands have their issues. I would look at warranty and service options more closely if I were starting over.?
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I went to induction?earlier this year after only cooking on gas other than at an?Airbnb. I love it..Went with an LG and no complaints at all. It's got a convection oven as well which is great. I use a big wok on the smooth cooktop and it performs great.
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Is it a convection oven? Lots of them will (intentionally) make the inside temp 25f below what you set if you use convection. Because that is the "equivalent" non convection temperature.
I know my last one had a setting to make it stop trying to correct for me and just do what I asked it to.? No clue if dacors do that.?
I know, for example, the newer LG doesn't completely hide it, like my old GE. You say 350 and it changes, on the display, as soon as you hit set, to 325.? ?So at least it's obvious it's trying to be smarter than you.
-Eric
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025, 11:11?AM Brandon Nickel via <brandon.nickel= [email protected]> wrote: We have a 48" Dacor gas/electric range and a 42" Dacor built-in refrigerator. The oven(s) frequently refuse to hold correct temperature, stubbornly maintaining exactly 20-30¡ã low. Though, sometimes being exactly right. The infuriating thing is that if you set it to 500¡ã+ to kick on the preheat, the temp reads exactly correctly as it starts to climb, so the thing knows what the current temperature is. Not a calibration issue.
We love the extra space on the six burner cooktop, which is why we choose Dacor over Thermador or others. Most 48" ranges have 8 "small" burners. But the oven issue is massively annoying and we fought it constantly. Not great for a $12k appliance?
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The fridge is made by Samsung and I've already had to put in a new compressor at 5 years which isn't great for a $10k fridge. My last Sears Kenmore was still going strong at 15 years. Other than that, we like it.?
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I suspect all the brands have their issues. I would look at warranty and service options more closely if I were starting over.?
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First post here. ? Been reading woodworking comments and learning for about a year. ? Thanks to all for sharing their experiences and wisdom.?
I can comment on Dacor.?
Range is great.? Wall ovens have been a huge mistake.? Circuit board on both ovens failed after warranty expired and was expensive to replace.? Ovens have never been accurate on temperature settings, run lower than setting.? Have an oven thermometer in each to get the real temp. ?
Based on my experience I would avoid entire Dacor line. ?
Last refrigerator purchased was an LG in French door style on sale at Home Depot.? That has been great. ?
Best Steve Lawrence
On Wed, Jan 1, 2025 at 09:11 Brandon Nickel via <brandon.nickel= [email protected]> wrote: We have a 48" Dacor gas/electric range and a 42" Dacor built-in refrigerator. The oven(s) frequently refuse to hold correct temperature, stubbornly maintaining exactly 20-30¡ã low. Though, sometimes being exactly right. The infuriating thing is that if you set it to 500¡ã+ to kick on the preheat, the temp reads exactly correctly as it starts to climb, so the thing knows what the current temperature is. Not a calibration issue.
We love the extra space on the six burner cooktop, which is why we choose Dacor over Thermador or others. Most 48" ranges have 8 "small" burners. But the oven issue is massively annoying and we fought it constantly. Not great for a $12k appliance?
?
The fridge is made by Samsung and I've already had to put in a new compressor at 5 years which isn't great for a $10k fridge. My last Sears Kenmore was still going strong at 15 years. Other than that, we like it.?
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I suspect all the brands have their issues. I would look at warranty and service options more closely if I were starting over.?
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Jeff
David P. Best
imran
Jason Holtz