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Hi all sliding table shaper users,
?
I have a question regarding the usual/best/preferred relationship of sliding table height to cast-iron top of a shaper (stand alone, not KF combo).
?
The subject has been mentioned in several posts I searched. I have also watched David Best's informative and comprehensive videos on the subject of building a panel door using a shaper, a profile/counter profile cutter and the tenoning plate, but unfortunately, the subject is still unclear to me.?
?
The basic question is whether the slider is most commonly set up to be perfectly co-planer to the cast iron top or if the slider ought to be raised a tiny bit? Unfortunately, I only have one machine to do long grain profile cuts as well as tenoning work. Here is my situation:
?
I received my F700Z with the slider 0.6 mm higher than the cast iron on the right and 0.3 mm higher on the left of the machine. I attempted to correct this and managed to bring it to within 0.2 mm on both sides. Anything closer seems to bind if I use my eccentric clamps to hold down my work piece even slightly off center on the slider towards the spindle. It appears that the pressure of the clamps bend/twist the sliding table sufficiently to bind my work piece against the cast iron (and this is setting up the clamps with a 7mm spacer in order to not apply full pressure). Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
?
After the adjustment, I left the slider at a height difference of 0.2 mm and it has been working for me? .... mostly.? However, my current problem is when I lock the slider and run pieces the long way. Then I have a slight angle on my cut if the work piece is wider than the available cast iron section in front of the cutterhead and rests, partially, on the slider as well. Again, David Best has explained that this would not have any relevant impact when shaping raised panels (and I agree), but in my case I am trying to make glue joints with a profile cutter in order to to glue up wide boards and even a slight angle will cup my final glue-up.?
?
So, what does everyone do? Do you have the tables co-planer and when you do tenoning work, the Felder tenoning plate will slide smoothly over the cast iron even with no height difference. Even if the clamps are pressing down, close to the cutterhead (above the cast iron table) as in David Best's videos? You don't have any binding? I do not yet own the tenoning plate, but I am considering to buy it if it solves my problems. Or do you somehow shim the cast-iron top when you mill long grain pieces (but this seems difficult to me since any type of shim would slide along with the work piece, in manual or power feed mode).?
?
I hope these questions make sense.
?
Many thanks for everyone's support!
?
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft
Cyprus
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Cornelius,?
I used to keep a stack of copy paper nearby and run inboard of the slider if pieces became large enough to interfere. My slider table I believe was about 2 sheets of copy paper normally above?the table, which would coincide with your 0.2mm specification. I found wood moved enough that sometimes I needed none, sometimes perfect, sometimes more. If you can get your joints within 0.1mm, that's practically about the best I can do and the rest is sanding to perfection. I understand your statement?about stacking errors with joint misalignment, but I'm not sure I could ever blame my own work on having enough joints to demonstrate detectable error stacking.
Hi all sliding table shaper users,
?
I have a question regarding the usual/best/preferred relationship of sliding table height to cast-iron top of a shaper (stand alone, not KF combo).
?
The subject has been mentioned in several posts I searched. I have also watched David Best's informative and comprehensive videos on the subject of building a panel door using a shaper, a profile/counter profile cutter and the tenoning plate, but unfortunately, the subject is still unclear to me.?
?
The basic question is whether the slider is most commonly set up to be perfectly co-planer to the cast iron top or if the slider ought to be raised a tiny bit? Unfortunately, I only have one machine to do long grain profile cuts as well as tenoning work. Here is my situation:
?
I received my F700Z with the slider 0.6 mm higher than the cast iron on the right and 0.3 mm higher on the left of the machine. I attempted to correct this and managed to bring it to within 0.2 mm on both sides. Anything closer seems to bind if I use my eccentric clamps to hold down my work piece even slightly off center on the slider towards the spindle. It appears that the pressure of the clamps bend/twist the sliding table sufficiently to bind my work piece against the cast iron (and this is setting up the clamps with a 7mm spacer in order to not apply full pressure). Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
?
After the adjustment, I left the slider at a height difference of 0.2 mm and it has been working for me? .... mostly.? However, my current problem is when I lock the slider and run pieces the long way. Then I have a slight angle on my cut if the work piece is wider than the available cast iron section in front of the cutterhead and rests, partially, on the slider as well. Again, David Best has explained that this would not have any relevant impact when shaping raised panels (and I agree), but in my case I am trying to make glue joints with a profile cutter in order to to glue up wide boards and even a slight angle will cup my final glue-up.?
?
So, what does everyone do? Do you have the tables co-planer and when you do tenoning work, the Felder tenoning plate will slide smoothly over the cast iron even with no height difference. Even if the clamps are pressing down, close to the cutterhead (above the cast iron table) as in David Best's videos? You don't have any binding? I do not yet own the tenoning plate, but I am considering to buy it if it solves my problems. Or do you somehow shim the cast-iron top when you mill long grain pieces (but this seems difficult to me since any type of shim would slide along with the work piece, in manual or power feed mode).?
?
I hope these questions make sense.
?
Many thanks for everyone's support!
?
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft
Cyprus
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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I think your slider is as low as it probably can be. Simplest solution to your current problem is to just glue boards without any profile/counter profile. I do understand the desire to use such tooling. I enthusiastically bought a hammer dedicated cutter and also have knives for my safety cutter. Used each once and never again. I use dominos if I am contor need help with glueup. Mostly though I just keep the material thick and glue parts as wide as my jointer/Planer can handle. Then do final milling and glue further if needed.
I just rough milled this stock for cabinet panels. It is .2” thicker than final thickness. I will be edge gluing without any glue joint profile and then mill to final thickness.
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On Dec 6, 2024, at 2:11?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote: ? Hi all sliding table shaper users,
?
I have a question regarding the usual/best/preferred relationship of sliding table height to cast-iron top of a shaper (stand alone, not KF combo).
?
The subject has been mentioned in several posts I searched. I have also watched David Best's informative and comprehensive videos on the subject of building a panel door using a shaper, a profile/counter profile cutter and the tenoning plate, but unfortunately, the subject is still unclear to me.?
?
The basic question is whether the slider is most commonly set up to be perfectly co-planer to the cast iron top or if the slider ought to be raised a tiny bit? Unfortunately, I only have one machine to do long grain profile cuts as well as tenoning work. Here is my situation:
?
I received my F700Z with the slider 0.6 mm higher than the cast iron on the right and 0.3 mm higher on the left of the machine. I attempted to correct this and managed to bring it to within 0.2 mm on both sides. Anything closer seems to bind if I use my eccentric clamps to hold down my work piece even slightly off center on the slider towards the spindle. It appears that the pressure of the clamps bend/twist the sliding table sufficiently to bind my work piece against the cast iron (and this is setting up the clamps with a 7mm spacer in order to not apply full pressure). Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
?
After the adjustment, I left the slider at a height difference of 0.2 mm and it has been working for me? .... mostly.? However, my current problem is when I lock the slider and run pieces the long way. Then I have a slight angle on my cut if the work piece is wider than the available cast iron section in front of the cutterhead and rests, partially, on the slider as well. Again, David Best has explained that this would not have any relevant impact when shaping raised panels (and I agree), but in my case I am trying to make glue joints with a profile cutter in order to to glue up wide boards and even a slight angle will cup my final glue-up.?
?
So, what does everyone do? Do you have the tables co-planer and when you do tenoning work, the Felder tenoning plate will slide smoothly over the cast iron even with no height difference. Even if the clamps are pressing down, close to the cutterhead (above the cast iron table) as in David Best's videos? You don't have any binding? I do not yet own the tenoning plate, but I am considering to buy it if it solves my problems. Or do you somehow shim the cast-iron top when you mill long grain pieces (but this seems difficult to me since any type of shim would slide along with the work piece, in manual or power feed mode).?
?
I hope these questions make sense.
?
Many thanks for everyone's support!
?
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft
Cyprus
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I have a follow up question.
Did how did you make sure the fence is coplanar with the sliding table?
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I tried to change the toe out of the slider, but when I am setting the back edge of the slider, the middle portion isn’t coplanar anymore.?
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Thanks for your feedback!
Brett - your suggestion with the copy paper makes sense?since we're only talking about a fraction of a mm, but how and where do you place/secure the paper when you feed a long workpiece past the cutterhead. Manual feed or power feeder would?simply push that paper along with the workpiece, wouldn't it? My pieces are 3 meters long, so they are not supported all the way and it would be a challenge to keep placing paper under the workpiece as it feeds past the cutterhead. Or do you have a trick here that I am missing?
Imran - you are correct that the simplest solution would be to not use a profile?for the glue joint, but my panels are 3 meters long and 90 cm wide. I cannot feed these through my jointer (AD741) to flatten if the joint shifts and is a tad misaligned after glue up. It would need to be in 3 sections and that still requires 2 more glue lines. You are correct that Dominos would solve this problem and I like dominos and have successfully used dominos for this purpose many times, but with 3 meter lengths I thought a continuous?profile joint would result in a faster assembly and cleaner joint. Btw, in your photo I see you have the Plano system in the background which I can imagine would serve exactly this purpose - aligning glue ups to stay flat? Are you happy with it, I am considering getting it, specifically for this type of job. However, having said that, I also had a project a few months ago where I was building a bread-board type panel and the cross piece that needed the groove was wider than the cast iron. This was the first time I encountered this problem. I tried to cut a groove 40mm deep and the slight angle caused a problem on the final fit.
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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Here are my suggestions.
Your sliding table should be adjusted to be the same distance above the cast iron top at both ends, and be coplanar to the cast iron top. ?It should also maintain its coplanar relationship to the cast iron top as it moves forward and backward. ?I have the sliding table on my Proifil 45 shaper set 0.15mm above the cast iron top, and it stays in that position and coplanar to the cast iron to throughout the center 80 percent of the travel. ?You are unlikely to get the slider to maintain this level of alignment in the first and last 10 percent of its travel - don’t even try. ?But it sounds like your sliding table could use some alignment attention. ?
You mentioned that your clamps distort the sliding table extrusion. ?I would recommend using less clamping force, so if you are using pneumatic clamps, lower the air pressure. ?
For counter-profiling operations, I use the??if the material is narrow enough to not spill over the leading edge. ?This plate is a very rigid platform that can be set up to extend the support of the material across the cast iron top and close to the cutter or hood fence. ?This particular tenoning plate is rigid enough that you can clamp the material to it even over the cast iron top as shown below:
If the material is too wide to use the Felder tenoning plate, then I use a sled as described below.
I have made a sled that can be used to level the surface between the shaper fence and the sliding table. It is a sheet of phenolic coated baltic birch plywood the covers the entire surface area and has spacers on the back side where it extends over the cast iron top. ?The phenolic coating gives it a slick surface, so the sled can be kept stationary and the material sent through the cutter with a power feeder. ?A plywood panel with plastic laminate or other slick surface preparation would be just as good. ? It attaches to the sliding table just like the tenoning plate using flat-head recessed screws into T-nuts in the slider. ?
This sled performs like a super wide tenoning plate and can be used in two modes. ?A) The sliding table can be locked in position and the power feeder used to move the material through the cutter, or B) the slider can be used to move the sled and material secured to it through the cutter. ?Either way, the top surface of the sled is coplanar to the top surface of the sliding table (although elevated) and because of the spader/runners on the underside of the sled, it does not tilt or sag at the cutter. ?I use an adhesive-backed foil tape as the spacers on the back side of the sled above the cast iron top that is 0.005” thick. ?It’s slick enough that it allows the sled to move along the cast iron top even with a pressure module pushing down from above. ?It does need to be replaced occasionally if the leading edge of the cast iron top catches it.
Hope this helps.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 6, 2024, at 11:11?AM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:
Hi all sliding table shaper users,
?
I have a question regarding the usual/best/preferred relationship of sliding table height to cast-iron top of a shaper (stand alone, not KF combo).
?
The subject has been mentioned in several posts I searched. I have also watched David Best's informative and comprehensive videos on the subject of building a panel door using a shaper, a profile/counter profile cutter and the tenoning plate, but unfortunately, the subject is still unclear to me.?
?
The basic question is whether the slider is most commonly set up to be perfectly co-planer to the cast iron top or if the slider ought to be raised a tiny bit? Unfortunately, I only have one machine to do long grain profile cuts as well as tenoning work. Here is my situation:
?
I received my F700Z with the slider 0.6 mm higher than the cast iron on the right and 0.3 mm higher on the left of the machine. I attempted to correct this and managed to bring it to within 0.2 mm on both sides. Anything closer seems to bind if I use my eccentric clamps to hold down my work piece even slightly off center on the slider towards the spindle. It appears that the pressure of the clamps bend/twist the sliding table sufficiently to bind my work piece against the cast iron (and this is setting up the clamps with a 7mm spacer in order to not apply full pressure). Is this normal or am I doing something wrong?
?
After the adjustment, I left the slider at a height difference of 0.2 mm and it has been working for me? .... mostly.? However, my current problem is when I lock the slider and run pieces the long way. Then I have a slight angle on my cut if the work piece is wider than the available cast iron section in front of the cutterhead and rests, partially, on the slider as well. Again, David Best has explained that this would not have any relevant impact when shaping raised panels (and I agree), but in my case I am trying to make glue joints with a profile cutter in order to to glue up wide boards and even a slight angle will cup my final glue-up.?
?
So, what does everyone do? Do you have the tables co-planer and when you do tenoning work, the Felder tenoning plate will slide smoothly over the cast iron even with no height difference. Even if the clamps are pressing down, close to the cutterhead (above the cast iron table) as in David Best's videos? You don't have any binding? I do not yet own the tenoning plate, but I am considering to buy it if it solves my problems. Or do you somehow shim the cast-iron top when you mill long grain pieces (but this seems difficult to me since any type of shim would slide along with the work piece, in manual or power feed mode).?
?
I hope these questions make sense.
?
Many thanks for everyone's support!
?
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft
Cyprus
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David,
How did you make sure the slider is coplanar to the cast-iron? What is your reference point?
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Hi Cornelius,
If you handle long stock often I recommend looking into PF for jointer. Longest I have jointed is bit over 4m. I have done the width that required 3x of my Dual 51 (510 mm). I have to be particular on the final glueup and light sanding is all it takes.
I do understand that your current project is challenging and you have feedback from David Best for some options.
As for Plano, I bought it cheap at an auction ($50 and gas) but then decided to add a column and all new plastic end liners. So I made it less cheap. I installed it in the only place available in the shop and the plan was to move my bench after moving the mitersaw. None of that happened so it has never been used. I was thinking of giving it a go for the current project but bot sure if it will happen.
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On Dec 6, 2024, at 3:51?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote: ? Thanks for your feedback!
Brett - your suggestion with the copy paper makes sense?since we're only talking about a fraction of a mm, but how and where do you place/secure the paper when you feed a long workpiece past the cutterhead. Manual feed or power feeder would?simply push that paper along with the workpiece, wouldn't it? My pieces are 3 meters long, so they are not supported all the way and it would be a challenge to keep placing paper under the workpiece as it feeds past the cutterhead. Or do you have a trick here that I am missing?
Imran - you are correct that the simplest solution would be to not use a profile?for the glue joint, but my panels are 3 meters long and 90 cm wide. I cannot feed these through my jointer (AD741) to flatten if the joint shifts and is a tad misaligned after glue up. It would need to be in 3 sections and that still requires 2 more glue lines. You are correct that Dominos would solve this problem and I like dominos and have successfully used dominos for this purpose many times, but with 3 meter lengths I thought a continuous?profile joint would result in a faster assembly and cleaner joint. Btw, in your photo I see you have the Plano system in the background which I can imagine would serve exactly this purpose - aligning glue ups to stay flat? Are you happy with it, I am considering getting it, specifically for this type of job. However, having said that, I also had a project a few months ago where I was building a bread-board type panel and the cross piece that needed the groove was wider than the cast iron. This was the first time I encountered this problem. I tried to cut a groove 40mm deep and the slight angle caused a problem on the final fit.
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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David - Thank you for your input. The suggestion of building a sled that covers the slider as well as part of the cast iron table (with layers of the foil tape on the bottom side) seems like the perfect solution. The only part that is not yet clear to me is how you deal with the ring inserts that?usually provide support right by the cutterhead. Depending on which size head I use, I would have to mount the entire sled further away from the fence which?may make the support of the workpiece problematic? Also, I suppose you do not clamp above the cast iron with this sled when using the slider since it would flex too much and bind with the cast iron? Would you still recommend I get the Felder tenoning plate for its stiffness and rigid build when I make narrow tenons??
Lastly, when you say my sliding table could use some alignment attention, you mean because?I get binding or because?0.2mm is too much of a height?difference in your opinion? The machine originally shipped with 0.6mm (right) and 0.3mm (left), but I have since corrected this to be 0.2mm on both sides. As you say, the last 10+% on either side are a different story.
Imran - yes, PF for jointer is something else I have been reading up on in the FOG archives. Haven't?come to a conclusion yet. Someone pointed to the fact that a feeder might press a bow out of a board that will be there again once out of the constraints of the feeder? I work a lot with very thick and bulky hardwoods (tropical 50-65 mm thick and 160-200mm wide) so I can't shave several mm off in a single pass. Feeding by hand, I usually go max 1mm in each pass. Another problem is that my AD741 does not come with a place to mount a feeder, so I would need to have a very solid independent place to bolt the feeder where it won't flex away from the jointer, yet can swing away when I need to open the unit to use the thicknesser. Really don't understand why Felder has mounting options for the bigger units, but not for the AD741?
Many thanks to you both for your very helpful feedback!
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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David,
How did you make sure the slider is coplanar to the cast-iron? What is your reference point?
Same as always: ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 6, 2024, at 1:47?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:
David - Thank you for your input. The suggestion of building a sled that covers the slider as well as part of the cast iron table (with layers of the foil tape on the bottom side) seems like the perfect solution. The only part that is not yet clear to me is how you deal with the ring inserts that?usually provide support right by the cutterhead. Depending on which size head I use, I would have to mount the entire sled further away from the fence which?may make the support of the workpiece problematic?
Exactly. ?Just like the tenoning plate. ?Position the sled so it isn’t machined during the profiling operation. ?Or, if you want to keep the sled stationary and use the PF, you can always cut out the OD of the cutter projection. ?Easy enough to make a rough cutout with a jigsaw, then just raise the rotating cutter into the sled from the bottom to get a zero-clearance. ?
Also, I suppose you do not clamp above the cast iron with this sled when using the slider since it would flex too much and bind with the cast iron?
Correct, but I do use a pressure module from above. ?As shown below. ?Aigner makes a number of accessories to help guide and keep material properly tracking on a shaper. The photo below is the single-wheel version, but they make others with all kinds of different wheel configurations that can be mounted vertically or horizontally. ?See attached.
Would you still recommend I get the Felder tenoning plate for its stiffness and rigid build when I make narrow tenons??
Absolutely. ?https://flic.kr/s/aHsmcQd55z Lastly, when you say my sliding table could use some alignment attention, you mean because?I get binding or because?0.2mm is too much of a height?difference in your opinion? The machine originally shipped with 0.6mm (right) and 0.3mm (left), but I have since corrected this to be 0.2mm on both sides. As you say, the last 10+% on either side are a different story.
My comments were mostly for the benefit of others reading the thread. ?Does your slider stay the same height and coplanar as you move the slider forward and back? David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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David,
Thank you for your additional comments and helpful hints. Yes, my sliding table stays coplanar for the section of travel I use when tenoning. It is a short slider. I would think twice to start adjusting my saw's slider that is 3.2 meters and has 8 bolts (as in your video). Far more involved and complex.?
Regarding the tenoning plate - in the flicker link you sent there is a photo from the side of your setup (attaching a slightly zoomed in copy). In this photo your height gap between the tenoning plate and the cast iron top is only 0.15mm? The plate seems to float quite a bit above the cast iron or is the shadow misleading?
Many thanks.?
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft? Cyprus?
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I believe that gap you see is an illusion because of the poor lighting/shadows. ?The corner edges of the tenoning plate are chamfered, and it is also relieved at both ends on the underside by about 0.028-inches or ~0.7mm.?
I just checked my slider to be sure - the slider is 0.006-inches above the cast iron top which is ~0.15mm. ?
David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Dec 6, 2024, at 4:14?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:
? David,
Thank you for your additional comments and helpful hints. Yes, my sliding table stays coplanar for the section of travel I use when tenoning. It is a short slider. I would think twice to start adjusting my saw's slider that is 3.2 meters and has 8 bolts (as in your video). Far more involved and complex.?
Regarding the tenoning plate - in the flicker link you sent there is a photo from the side of your setup (attaching a slightly zoomed in copy). In this photo your height gap between the tenoning plate and the cast iron top is only 0.15mm? The plate seems to float quite a bit above the cast iron or is the shadow misleading?
Many thanks.?
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft? Cyprus? <Screenshot_20241207_015958_Chrome.jpg>
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Thanks david,
I watched your video again, but the toe-out of the slider is adjusted based on the table saw blade, but on a standalone shaper you don't have a blade, so what would you reference?
Does the edge of the cast iron is good enough?
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In general, on a shaper, you want the trajectory of the sliding table to be parallel with the fence plates on the shaper hood. This way you can use any point along shaper fence as a bump-stop reference to establish the depth of cut of a profiling operation and still be able to have the material clamped to the sliding table. ?If the two are not parallel, material clamped to the slider will either move away from the fence plate as it goes through the profiling operation giving you an erroneous depth of cut, or the material will bind against the fence when the slider is pushed forward. ?
On a KF700/F700, the 230 shaper hood mounting arrangement typically has enough wiggle room to be able to align the fence plates to the trajectory of the sliding table during hood/fence setup, and thus aligning the sliding table to the edge of the cast iron top is probably sufficient. ?That said, I would still mount the hood and check that the fence plates can easily be positioned to be parallel with the slider movement. ?How do you align the fence plates to the trajectory of the sliding table on such a machine? The easiest way is to first mount and square a crosscut fence to the slider movement, then put a square against the crosscut fence and use the 90-degree leg as the reference surface to align the fence plate before locking down the hood. ?
But on a machine like a Profil 45, the hood and fence plates move in/out in a rigidly controlled parallel fashion, so aligning the slider movement to be parallel with the infeed fence plate is the correct approach. ?
I refer you to these two videos - read the descriptions with each. ?
David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Dec 7, 2024, at 12:25?AM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
? Thanks david,
I watched your video again, but the toe-out of the slider is adjusted based on the table saw blade, but on a standalone shaper you don't have a blade, so what would you reference?
Does the edge of the cast iron is good enough?
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Netanel, if you’re setting a toe-out on a sliding table in a stand alone shaper to avoid binding your reference should be your shaper fence as this is where the binding could happen.?
To make it easier on yourself when setting it up, I would make sure your shaper fence is parallel to the cast iron edge first as it is fairly easy to initially measure the gap between the cast iron and the slider and then fine tune it with a dial indicator on the fence (assuming the fence extrusions are flat).
?
I’m really new to woodworking, so I do not know ( it would be really interesting to know from the experts ) if a toe-out on a stand alone shaper is necessary, cause at least in (my) theory it may not be desirable. I have a KF 700 S saw/shaper combo and thanks to David Best, his book and personal help I was able to really dial in my slider well beyond anything that is possible for a Felder technician to achieve, given time constraints and measuring equipment they equip technicians with. I set up my slider with a slight toe-out for safety on the saw, so the shaper got the same. This never came up in my conversations with David, but I think on a stand alone shaper, I would aim for the slider trajectory to be perfectly parallel to the fence, which in my theory would give you the most accurate results shaping wide and long pieces utilizing the slider.?
Mariusz
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I‘m sorry David, started typing before you posted your response?
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Hi Cornelius,
It is a shame that you can’t mount PF to your Jointer. As to your concern about bow staying there due to PF, David Best and Lucky have addressed this here may be others too.
In case I don’t remember their recommendation exactly, I would share what I do. I put concave side down. Usually the boards are such that a 3 mm depth of cut is sufficient. Once that amount is removed and the board has traveled ~50 mm the PF picks it up. Can it push the rest of the board down? Well it started out as a cut with no significant downward force just like one would do by hand and is now sitting flush on the outfeed. Pushing it further down at that point, should not do anything to the rest of the board. Boards with significant twist will need some work prior or just should be done by hand.
In this stack of 20 some boards I had to run maybe 4 boards again with 1 mm depth of cut to get them flat.
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On Dec 6, 2024, at 4:47?PM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote: ? David - Thank you for your input. The suggestion of building a sled that covers the slider as well as part of the cast iron table (with layers of the foil tape on the bottom side) seems like the perfect solution. The only part that is not yet clear to me is how you deal with the ring inserts that?usually provide support right by the cutterhead. Depending on which size head I use, I would have to mount the entire sled further away from the fence which?may make the support of the workpiece problematic? Also, I suppose you do not clamp above the cast iron with this sled when using the slider since it would flex too much and bind with the cast iron? Would you still recommend I get the Felder tenoning plate for its stiffness and rigid build when I make narrow tenons??
Lastly, when you say my sliding table could use some alignment attention, you mean because?I get binding or because?0.2mm is too much of a height?difference in your opinion? The machine originally shipped with 0.6mm (right) and 0.3mm (left), but I have since corrected this to be 0.2mm on both sides. As you say, the last 10+% on either side are a different story.
Imran - yes, PF for jointer is something else I have been reading up on in the FOG archives. Haven't?come to a conclusion yet. Someone pointed to the fact that a feeder might press a bow out of a board that will be there again once out of the constraints of the feeder? I work a lot with very thick and bulky hardwoods (tropical 50-65 mm thick and 160-200mm wide) so I can't shave several mm off in a single pass. Feeding by hand, I usually go max 1mm in each pass. Another problem is that my AD741 does not come with a place to mount a feeder, so I would need to have a very solid independent place to bolt the feeder where it won't flex away from the jointer, yet can swing away when I need to open the unit to use the thicknesser. Really don't understand why Felder has mounting options for the bigger units, but not for the AD741?
Many thanks to you both for your very helpful feedback!
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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David and Imran,
Thanks?again for your valuable feedback. David, there is one more question?relating to template routing - how do I fit this into the equation of having the slider 0.15mm higher than the cast iron? When you work using templates and remove the fence, do you simply cover the entire slider and cast iron with a material equivalent to the sled you described and cut out a hole the size of your cutterhead? It seems that I would need to be covering the beautiful cast iron table for a lot of my work - for template work and profiling wide boards on a sled. And the wide boards don't even need to be terribly wide since there is not much cast iron left before the slider interferes if I use a 180-200mm diameter cutterhead.
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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Frankly, I have never had a situation where the tiny induced angle was an issue during template routing. ?I mean we’re talking about less than 0.1° here. ?But if I was truly concerned about it, I would probably just tilt the shaper spindle backwards the required amount to nullify the discrepancy.? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Dec 9, 2024, at 6:34?AM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:
? David and Imran,
Thanks?again for your valuable feedback. David, there is one more question?relating to template routing - how do I fit this into the equation of having the slider 0.15mm higher than the cast iron? When you work using templates and remove the fence, do you simply cover the entire slider and cast iron with a material equivalent to the sled you described and cut out a hole the size of your cutterhead? It seems that I would need to be covering the beautiful cast iron table for a lot of my work - for template work and profiling wide boards on a sled. And the wide boards don't even need to be terribly wide since there is not much cast iron left before the slider interferes if I use a 180-200mm diameter cutterhead.
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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I guess I should also point out that for template pattern work, I use a spiral cutter that is only 100mm in diameter with an integral rub bearing. ? David Best - via mobile phone?
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On Dec 9, 2024, at 7:17?AM, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote:
? Frankly, I have never had a situation where the tiny induced angle was an issue during template routing. ?I mean we’re talking about less than 0.1° here. ?But if I was truly concerned about it, I would probably just tilt the shaper spindle backwards the required amount to nullify the discrepancy.? David Best - via mobile phone? On Dec 9, 2024, at 6:34?AM, Cornelius via groups.io <Cornelius@...> wrote:
? David and Imran,
Thanks?again for your valuable feedback. David, there is one more question?relating to template routing - how do I fit this into the equation of having the slider 0.15mm higher than the cast iron? When you work using templates and remove the fence, do you simply cover the entire slider and cast iron with a material equivalent to the sled you described and cut out a hole the size of your cutterhead? It seems that I would need to be covering the beautiful cast iron table for a lot of my work - for template work and profiling wide boards on a sled. And the wide boards don't even need to be terribly wide since there is not much cast iron left before the slider interferes if I use a 180-200mm diameter cutterhead.
Cornelius Schultze-Kraft Cyprus
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imran
David P. Best
