Upgrading slider

[email protected] All Messages By This Member #134353 I am looking to upgrade my current slider (K3 with 2000mm slider) ? I think I'll go with the Felder K700s. Felder currently offer a promotion on the following configuration: 1 x 230V 4.0HP (3.0kW) motor Industrial motor driven scoring blade Dado prepped Angle display in hand wheel 110" X-roll sliding table with remote start/stop on end of slider 49" rip capacity with fine adjustment. 1500 outrigger 102" crosscut fence with flip stop. ? Is there is something I miss in this configuration? Few things I am still debiting 1)Do I want DRO on the rip fence? If so, to get the one on Felder I'll need to get a special build (6-7 months wait) I can also go with aftermarket DRO (like Lamb tool DRO) 2)I never worked with a shaper before. I wonder if I want to maybe go with the combination machine and have a shaper? My initial impression is it will be PITA to swap from saw to shaper and I'll default to go and just use the router table. But what do you think?
David P. Best All Messages By This Member #134354 开云体育 Here are some things that come immediately to mind.? Consider getting a 3-phase machine and an inexpensive rotary phase converter for your shop. ?If you don’t know why I recommend that, search the archives for “failed capacitors”. ?3-Phase motors are much more reliable, more efficient, and give you a larger capacity HP. ?The electronics are simpler and more reliable. And once you provision your shop for 3-phase power, it opens so many doors to other equipment. WRT DRO on rip fence, that depends a lot on how you use the machine. ?95 percent of the work I do is on the left side of the blade, and a DRO on the crosscut fence is far more useful than one on the rip fence side. ?A parallel fence is a very useful addition to your configuration if you have reoriented your workflow to “the left” or do a meaningful amount of panel processing. ? I do have a motorized rip fence with DRO but use it mostly as a glorified bump stop. ?Between the digital crosscut stops and DRO on the rip fence, there is no question which I would give up first (the rip fence side). ?If you are still using your sliding table saw like you’d use a conventional cabinet saw, then a rip-side DRO could be handy. ?If you do plan to get DRO crosscut stops for “the left side", the solution from Felder is roughly equivalent in cost to a 3rd-party after-market solution like the one Brian makes. ?The Felder DRO-capable crosscut fence is very heavy - that might be one reason to go after-market for the crosscut DRO. The KF700 is a very cost-effective way to get into a shaper if you are already buying a sliding table saw. ?For a hobbyist it can open a lot of doors. ?For anything approaching a production shop, a separate shaper is ideal since there is a lot of setup time required to dial in your fence and tool positions, and if you have to break that down to use the saw, setting up the shaper again will be frustratingly slow. ?But if you are a hobbyist, with time on your side, and are not someone who is isntantly aggravated by setup changes, I highly recommend the KF700 as the starter machine. ?The KF700 with shaper is an excellent way to get into the world of using a shaper. ?You can always ADD a stand alone shaper later. ?Last time I looked, the price difference between a K700 and KF700 similarly equipped was about $4,000 depending on motorized options. As to the difference between shaper and router table, I have both, but the router table is relegated to round-over and similar operations. ?Once you start making frame/panel doors (cabinet or passage doors), the shaper really shines. ? A good pair of clamps should be on your list. ?No question here that Mac Campsure’s Airtight units are to pinnacle. ? Make sure you get the “S” body. ?I have recently been in a long exchange with a user who got talked into the non-“S” version with a 2500mm slider and is having fits trying to get his slider aligned properly. ?The S chassis version with a 110” slider is ideal in this regard. Where are you located and who is your sales rep? ?DM me if you want to go deep dive on any of these aspects. David Best DBestWorkshop@... https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/ https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Jan 17, 2024, at 5:42?PM, netanel.belgazal@... wrote: I am looking to upgrade my current slider (K3 with 2000mm slider) ? I think I'll go with the Felder K700s. Felder currently offer a promotion on the following configuration: 1 x 230V 4.0HP (3.0kW) motor Industrial motor driven scoring blade Dado prepped Angle display in hand wheel 110" X-roll sliding table with remote start/stop on end of slider 49" rip capacity with fine adjustment. 1500 outrigger 102" crosscut fence with flip stop. ? Is there is something I miss in this configuration? Few things I am still debiting 1)Do I want DRO on the rip fence? If so, to get the one on Felder I'll need to get a special build (6-7 months wait) I can also go with aftermarket DRO (like Lamb tool DRO) 2)I never worked with a shaper before. I wonder if I want to maybe go with the combination machine and have a shaper? My initial impression is it will be PITA to swap from saw to shaper and I'll default to go and just use the router table. But what do you think?
Aaron Inami All Messages By This Member #134355 Hi Netanel, I did not see an "overhead blade guard / dust collector" on your list.? It's your personal preference, but I really love my overhead dust collector.? The stock blade guard dust collector hood on these saws are a real hassle to use and remove/re-attach.? This option was pretty much mandatory in my own shop.? It is totally up to you, though. I do not have any DRO on my stock K700S.?? After using this for a year, I don't feel any burning need to have a DRO on the rip fence.? I have used the rip fence for both normal ripping and as a bump stop.? I have been able to dial in very accurate cuts without a DRO and accurate repeat cuts is not really an issue.? However, I would highly recommend a DRO on the cross-cut fence.? It's practically impossible to dial in the flip-stop accurately for any sort of cut.? Repeat cuts are a mess.? You can actually be up to 1/16" off depending on how you are looking at the flip-stop gauge, so the cross-cut DRO is pretty much a mandatory item on my list.? The choice between Felder and Lamb DRO flip-stops is a personal preference and I have seen people who prefer one or the other.? I would get the Lamb DRO myself because it allows you to set the flip-stop down to 4".? The Felder flip-stops only allow down to a 7-8" cut. The one thing I wish I might have had was the K1 power drive (motorized raising and lowering of the blade).? The K2 with full height/angle and digital readout doesn't seem a big thing for me as a hobbyist, but I am constantly cranking the wheel to raise and lower the blade.? Again, this is not a big thing and I am fine operating the saw without it, but if I had the money I might have bought the K1 option. Parallel fence and "Fritz-n-Franz" are also recommended, but those can be gotten at any time after the saw purchase. -Aaron
imran All Messages By This Member #134356 开云体育 Hi Aaron, I have what you call K1 power drive on my K975 and hate it. There is no way to set an exact height for a buried cut, for example a dado. Not even with 2-speed movement in each direction. Imran Malik toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Jan 17, 2024, at 11:17?PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?Hi Netanel, I did not see an "overhead blade guard / dust collector" on your list.? It's your personal preference, but I really love my overhead dust collector.? The stock blade guard dust collector hood on these saws are a real hassle to use and remove/re-attach.? This option was pretty much mandatory in my own shop.? It is totally up to you, though. I do not have any DRO on my stock K700S.?? After using this for a year, I don't feel any burning need to have a DRO on the rip fence.? I have used the rip fence for both normal ripping and as a bump stop.? I have been able to dial in very accurate cuts without a DRO and accurate repeat cuts is not really an issue.? However, I would highly recommend a DRO on the cross-cut fence.? It's practically impossible to dial in the flip-stop accurately for any sort of cut.? Repeat cuts are a mess.? You can actually be up to 1/16" off depending on how you are looking at the flip-stop gauge, so the cross-cut DRO is pretty much a mandatory item on my list.? The choice between Felder and Lamb DRO flip-stops is a personal preference and I have seen people who prefer one or the other.? I would get the Lamb DRO myself because it allows you to set the flip-stop down to 4".? The Felder flip-stops only allow down to a 7-8" cut. The one thing I wish I might have had was the K1 power drive (motorized raising and lowering of the blade).? The K2 with full height/angle and digital readout doesn't seem a big thing for me as a hobbyist, but I am constantly cranking the wheel to raise and lower the blade.? Again, this is not a big thing and I am fine operating the saw without it, but if I had the money I might have bought the K1 option. Parallel fence and "Fritz-n-Franz" are also recommended, but those can be gotten at any time after the saw purchase. -Aaron
PK All Messages By This Member #134357 Netanel, I have to agree with David fully.? And possibly with Aaron too,? I may stand to be corrected, but I think when you order the DRO option from Felder on the 900 and 700 machines you get the larger extrusion for the crosscut fence, which may be an advantage?? (more robust but much heavier).? If you plan on taking the outrigger off the saw often, then the smaller extrusion and Brian Lam's DRO may be a better option for you because it is lighter?? BTW, I do love the automatic positioning rip fence though - very nice. I wish I would have taken David's advice originally when he told me to go 3ph (I am sure he has the speech down pat at this point for many of the FOG peeps).? I got a great deal on a used 2016 kappa 400 x-motion (which forced me to move to a 3ph setup) and now I have SEVEN 3ph machines.? I just built a new shop and I only have 1 single phase machine now.? Crazy how things line up.? I am on my second Phase Perfect converter and not looking back (never thought I would need more than 10hp 3ph until I got a 3ph dust collector). PK
Aaron Inami All Messages By This Member #134358 Imran - good to know.? Maybe the K2 power drive is the only way to go if you are looking at motorized lift/angle. PK - I wish I had your deep pockets! -Aaron
Dan Gavrilyuk All Messages By This Member #134359 开云体育 I have k2 power drive on my saw (long story on how I acquired a slider with k2 power drive controls and it didn’t cost me a dime extra) and can’t imagine having to crank a handle around all the time. I have not experienced the same frustrations that Imran has with his saw, just need to develop a feel for the switches that control the height..? toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Jan 18, 2024, at 12:52 AM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?Imran - good to know.? Maybe the K2 power drive is the only way to go if you are looking at motorized lift/angle. PK - I wish I had your deep pockets! -Aaron
jontathan samways All Messages By This Member #134360 Motorised/ powerdrive this that or the other are great to have when they are working........100% certainty they will develop?issues at some stage, this timing will generally be a inconvenience. toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 at 07:12, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote: I have k2 power drive on my saw (long story on how I acquired a slider with k2 power drive controls and it didn’t cost me a dime extra) and can’t imagine having to crank a handle around all the time. I have not experienced the same frustrations that Imran has with his saw, just need to develop a feel for the switches that control the height..? On Jan 18, 2024, at 12:52 AM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?Imran - good to know.? Maybe the K2 power drive is the only way to go if you are looking at motorized lift/angle. PK - I wish I had your deep pockets! -Aaron -- Kindest Regards Jonathan Samways Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #134361 On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 09:04 PM, PK wrote: (never thought I would need more than 10hp 3ph until I got a 3ph dust collector). I see there is a huge price jump between the 7.5HP phase convertor to the 10HP phase convertor. $1400 to $3500 If I am going with the 7.5HP saw, will it be sufficient?? I am trying to calculate how much power will it consume 5.5kW motor on 3 phase should consumes ~19 amp on the 3 phase, how much power? I can see that it consume up to 45A, does it just for the start or the continious load? together with my dust collector that consume 23A I am close to 70A
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #134362 Aaron - The overhead blade gard is on my list. It is currently?out of stock and should arrive in 12 weeks. It is anyway an addon item. Fritz and Franz - I have David Bad and I'll keep using in on the new slider.
[email protected] All Messages By This Member #134363 Do you have any recommandation for phase convertor? What size do I need to operate 3-phase saw? I have a limited power in the shop. ? For the DRO, sorry, I meant cross cut fence DRO. I stopped working with the rip fence when I moved to a slider (beside using it as a stop block, I even shorten the saw from 49" to 31") I forgot about Parallel fence, I made a jig for the K3, but proper fence is a good idea. I'll ask the rep for a quote for the shaper, but it looks like the pre made configuration of the K700 has $2300 disscount, so it will get the undiscount model quite expsnsive.? ? For clamps, I'll start with using my Kregs clamps until I'll have the budget for Airtight. The quote I got was for the S body, my rep didn't tried to convince me to take the less model. ? I am located in Northen Califnrnia. I'll DM you the sales rep. ? Thanks for your help (P.S., I used your video to calibrate the K3 slider - wonderful video - thanks for that)
imran All Messages By This Member #134364 开云体育 Dan, “I have not experienced the same frustrations that Imran has with his saw, just need to develop a feel for the switches that control the height..” Not sure what you are saying. I agree, with powerdrive there is no issue to set height. Works fine on my Dual 51. My comment was regarding K1 powerdrive on my used K975. Aaron thought that would be a desirable build feature (presumably from cost standpoint) but I was warning him that it is impossible to set the blade to an exact height without full powerdrive. With K1 all I have is a 2-speed up and down switch. There is no way to hit a desirable blade height. If a manufacturer just added DROs (not expensive compared to motorized motion) to the crank raise and tilt, I think many would be happy and not pay for the full powerdrive. Imran Malik toggle quoted message Show quoted text On Jan 18, 2024, at 1:12?AM, Dan Gavrilyuk <dgwoodco@...> wrote: ? I have k2 power drive on my saw (long story on how I acquired a slider with k2 power drive controls and it didn’t cost me a dime extra) and can’t imagine having to crank a handle around all the time. I have not experienced the same frustrations that Imran has with his saw, just need to develop a feel for the switches that control the height..? On Jan 18, 2024, at 12:52 AM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?Imran - good to know.? Maybe the K2 power drive is the only way to go if you are looking at motorized lift/angle. PK - I wish I had your deep pockets! -Aaron
imran All Messages By This Member #134365 开云体育 Netanel, I shared startup and idle currents of Felder 3Ph motors up to 10HP (7.35KW) in this document. This info is on FOG as well but I could not find it.

Imran Malik

Show quoted text

On Jan 18, 2024, at 6:18?AM, netanel.belgazal@... wrote:

?On Wed, Jan 17, 2024 at 09:04 PM, PK wrote:

(never thought I would need more than 10hp 3ph until I got a 3ph dust collector).

I see there is a huge price jump between the 7.5HP phase convertor to the 10HP phase convertor.

$1400 to $3500

If I am going with the 7.5HP saw, will it be sufficient??

I am trying to calculate how much power will it consume

5.5kW motor on 3 phase should consumes ~19 amp on the 3 phase, how much power?

I can see that it consume up to 45A, does it just for the start or the continious load?

together with my dust collector that consume 23A I am close to 70A

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I am not clear on what you mean by “K1 powerdrive”. ?When I purchased my K975, there were two motorized arbor-positioning options: PowerDrive and DigiDrive. ?You are the first person I’ve heard talk about a K1 and a K2 type of power drive system on that machine. ?

The PowerDrive on my K975 had a momentary switch, spring loaded to the center off position, with two positions in each twisting direction: high and low speed movement in the up or down (anti-clockwise, and clockwise) with the turn of the switch. Granted, the low-speed position was a slight turn of the switch, requiring a sensitive hand movement so as not to overshoot to the high speed position. The system also included a DRO that displayed the height of the blade accurately if it was properly calibrated.?

So I’m not clear on whether you have a defective switch that is hampering your ability to precisely position the saw arbor, or have implemented some Frankenstein type power drive system that is unique to your machine. The terms K1 and K2 are normally used to refer to relays inside the electrical cabinet rather than an option for the PowerDrive system.?

David Best - via mobile phone?

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I sent you a DM, addressing some of your questions. Let me know if you did not receive it.

I will make the assumption that you would be purchasing a case 700 S with the 5.5 hp base model, three phase motor. ?For a phase converter you have basically two options. The first would be a rotary phase converter, such as the American rotary unit described at the following link:

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David,

I found a few minutes to add more. I have the 2speed sw you describe but no DRO. I have added the DRO now. Were you able to crawl slow enough to stop the saw blade let’s say at 0.500 inch, repeatedly? I cannot even come close.

My machine uses 30VDC for fast speed and 10VDC at slow speed. It is too fast even on the slow speed to stop at an exact number. There is no white push button to bump by 0.005” like in my Dual51 powerdrive.

Imran Malik