Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that’s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I’ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn’t have Felder commission your machine?
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? Hi David,
Made a precise 6” block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36” long cut I made and I’m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
 ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don’t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I’m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12” digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6” digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6” long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12” digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That’s an interesting approach. ?I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested. ?I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36” long. ?Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Follow-up to previous post on precision measuring scale. ? I have two Pacific Arc?EEEM-42 rules. ?They are 42” long stainless steel with etched markings in both imperial and metric. ?The rule is about 30mm wide and 2mm thick and this a bit flexible. ? These are the best “yardsticks” I have found - served me well for 2 decades. ?Highly recommended. ?You can buy them here: ?
The markings look like this:
Full product line is here (click on “Stainless Steel Rulers”): ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Hi James,
I was going to do that, eventually, because I was lead to believe that a DRO on the rip fence was something I could add later. ?It’s a sore subject now! ?Sales lady made a mistake and thought I could, turns out you can’t. ?And by the time I found this out my saw was already in production at the plant and it was too late. ?Pissed me off a bit.?
Thx,
Wade ? I see Wade has two DROs on his crosscut fence. Why not order DRO on the rip fence? I recall it is only a few hundreds more on top of the rip fence with fine adjustment.
I really love DROs (one on crosscut fence and one on rip fence), it makes life so?much easier, and the repeatability.
<Capture.JPG>
James
To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned.? To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible.? We don’t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate.? I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet.? I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence.? Check to see if they agree.? You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes.? What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length.? I’m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12” digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above.? So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6” digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6” long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12” digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That’s an interesting approach.? I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested.? I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ?Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence.? The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately.? Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material.? Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop.? Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long.? Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end.? That should be 36” long.? Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
?I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop.? It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error.? Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be.? Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time.? Everything is good and tight.? So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade.? Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on.? Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch.? There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments.? Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel.? Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached.? It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
?Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down.? Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel.? Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface?? And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6” block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36” long cut I made and I’m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:58 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don’t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I’m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12” digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6” digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6” long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12” digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
David,
That’s an interesting approach. ?I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested. ?I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36” long. ?Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Hi James,
I was going to do that, eventually, because I was lead to believe that a DRO on the rip fence was something I could add later. ?It’s a sore subject now! ?Sales lady made a mistake and thought I could, turns out you can’t. ?And by the time I found this out my saw was already in production at the plant and it was too late. ?Pissed me off a bit.?
Thx,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 6:19 PM, James Zhu <james.zhu2@...> wrote:
? I see Wade has two DROs on his crosscut fence. Why not order DRO on the rip fence? I recall it is only a few hundreds more on top of the rip fence with fine adjustment.
I really love DROs (one on crosscut fence and one on rip fence), it makes life so?much easier, and the repeatability.
James
To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned.? To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible.? We don’t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate.? I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet.? I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence.? Check to see if they agree.? You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes.? What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length.? I’m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12” digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above.? So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6” digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6” long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12” digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That’s an interesting approach.? I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested.? I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ?Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence.? The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately.? Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material.? Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop.? Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long.? Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end.? That should be 36” long.? Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
?I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop.? It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error.? Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be.? Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time.? Everything is good and tight.? So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade.? Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on.? Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch.? There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments.? Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel.? Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached.? It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
?Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down.? Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel.? Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface?? And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: Flip stops for F&F jig
I’m glad this thread came up, thanks all! I’ve thought about making one for years, just never did until today. I just looked around at what I had and slapped together a simple one in a couple hours from Baltic birch and some Rockler track hardware I had laying around. Flip stops would be nice, but better a bird in hand than a F&F in the theoretical bush. This thing is so handy, even if you don’t have any track hardware, I’d highly recommend making one without bump stops just as an extra pair of hands.? -Shawn 
On Thursday, February 10, 2022, 5:26 PM, Rob H <rhorton@...> wrote: Lots of Great looking F&F jigs in this thread. I used cork on the contact edge's for the no slip. Best thing I ever did a year ago was upgrading to a slider.
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
I see Wade has two DROs on his crosscut fence. Why not order DRO on the rip fence? I recall it is only a few hundreds more on top of the rip fence with fine adjustment.
I really love DROs (one on crosscut fence and one on rip fence), it makes life so?much easier, and the repeatability.
James
To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned.? To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible.? We don’t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate.? I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet.? I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence.? Check to see if they agree.? You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes.? What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length.? I’m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12” digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above.? So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6” digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6” long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12” digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That’s an interesting approach.? I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested.? I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ?Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence.? The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately.? Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material.? Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop.? Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long.? Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end.? That should be 36” long.? Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
?I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop.? It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error.? Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be.? Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time.? Everything is good and tight.? So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade.? Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on.? Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch.? There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments.? Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel.? Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached.? It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
?Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down.? Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel.? Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface?? And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don’t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I’m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12” digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6” digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6” long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12” digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Show quoted text
David,
That’s an interesting approach. ?I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested. ?I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36” long. ?Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
A drafting triangle might work and there is a 16-inch one on eBay listed as PROFESSIONAL FLUORESCENT TRIANGLE 16" 45/90 DEGREE DRAFTING TOOL ART ORANGE NEON.
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Wade do you have multiple tapes? ?Just to double check your reference tape. I have found a few in my shop that are not as accurate as I had assumed then to be.? Steve Lyde
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 7:00 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? Steve,
No yard stick, but going to lay my tape down on it and compare.
Thx,
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:20 PM, Steve Lyde via groups.io <stlyde@...> wrote:
? Wade do you have any solid metal measuring devices, metal yard stick, to compare to your scale and to your tape measure? ?Just to double check.? Steve Lyde On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? I’m simply measuring between the rip fence and the blade. ?And as I get further out from the blade the scale is not measuring correctly. ?It’s good until about 20” and then starts to grow a bit. ?By the time I measure out at 45” my tape measure says 45” and the scale is 45-1/16” plus. ?
On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:01 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Steve,
No yard stick, but going to lay my tape down on it and compare.
Thx,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:20 PM, Steve Lyde via groups.io <stlyde@...> wrote:
? Wade do you have any solid metal measuring devices, metal yard stick, to compare to your scale and to your tape measure? ?Just to double check.? Steve Lyde On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:18 PM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? I’m simply measuring between the rip fence and the blade. ?And as I get further out from the blade the scale is not measuring correctly. ?It’s good until about 20” and then starts to grow a bit. ?By the time I measure out at 45” my tape measure says 45” and the scale is 45-1/16” plus. ?
On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:01 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
David,
That’s an interesting approach. ?I’m going to perform what you described, because I’m very interested. ?I will admit I don’t fully understand how it’s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I’m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:51 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36” long. ?Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Shawn, for 20 years I had a 3hp contractor saw with a sliding crosscut saw - pretty much the same setup as the SawStop+crosscut slider you are considering. The CC slider was a very decent, solid cast iron and steel construction which kept its settings. It was a much better machine than the standard tablesaw.?
I decided to upgrade 5 years ago. The choice was either another, but better version of the above, which would be the SawStop+CC slider, or a Hammer K3 Winner. I am a serious hobbiest building solid wood furniture, no sheet goods, and frequently enter furniture design and build competitions. At this stage I had not used a true slider, recognising that the machine fixture I had was designed for crosscutting, and not ripping. This is a relevant difference.?
I was fortunate to be able to experience both machines side-by-side and understand the limitation of the SS, along with the promise of the K3. The K3 I was looking at was a short wagon 1250mm. Both machines are very solidly built and will last an amateur forever. Hell, I see many pro shops having far lesser quality machines than mine, and certainly lesser quality than SS. The K3 has 4 hp to the SS 3 hp, and a 12” blade vs the 10” of the SS. Having used a 12” for so many years, moving to a 10” was a step backward. Interestingly, ignoring the travel needed for the wagon, the K3 has a much smaller footprint than the SS. And the extra space needed for wagon travel is actually an illusion since one needs this on a standard tablesaw anyway. Lastly, the “slider” on the SS is not a wagon as you know it, but designed for crosscut use. The side lies about 6-9” away from the blade, unlike a true slider, and I think that you would find this disconcerting.
In the end it was the K3 that came out quite far on top, not in quality of build (this was much of a muchness), but it features and range. I have had zero regret, and am still finding more ways to do things on this delightful machine. ?
This photo was taken shortly after getting the K3 …
Regards from Perth
Derek
|
You have an older version that doesn’t have the 45? holes.
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I have what you shared and that is what I used however it’s long side is 6” and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4” along the blade. I have Brian’s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12” for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian’s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45° pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45° the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Thanks David. I see they have one 18” long. Not sure if that is the short or long side but will get one. If nothing else, good for layout.
Imran
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On Feb 12, 2022, at 6:08 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran, ?Here’s another alternative - it’s what I use for checking miters and 45° crosscut fence position. ?Not the most durable thing in the world, but it’s not expensive either.
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it’s long side is 6” and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4” along the blade. I have Brian’s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12” for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian’s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45° pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45° the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Imran, ?Here’s another alternative - it’s what I use for checking miters and 45° crosscut fence position. ?Not the most durable thing in the world, but it’s not expensive either.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it’s long side is 6” and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4” along the blade. I have Brian’s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12” for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian’s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45° pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45° the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Again, without some photos or a video, I can’t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what’s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6” digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6” as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6” long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6” mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6” long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36” long. ?Then position your fence at 36”, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Imran I had no idea that isn't a standard feature. That's unfortunate as it's super easy to use and quite accurate. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Mark, That is what I am leaning towards. I would not buy a large square unless it came with accuracy spec and if it did I probably won’t be able to afford it. So I am going to order 1/4” uhmw/polyethylene 1’x3’. Once by trial and error I have 45, I will cut a 45 deg square. uhmw in that size is under $30.
Imran
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On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran, is your angle scale not calibrated? Like i said I get good enough results with the scale but was thinking that it would be easy enough to set your fence by trial/error once you are happy with it make a gauge block out of wood that you could put between something (like the framework of the out rigger) and the fence to set it., it’s a bit agricultural but would work… On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:14 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have what you shared and that is what I used however it’s long side is 6” and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4” along the blade. I have Brian’s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12” for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian’s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45° pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45° the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
That’s what I’m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via groups.io <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:01 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you’re seeing.
I’ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10” from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5”, 10”, 20” all dead on. ?Then I get to 30” and it’s off by a 1/32”, then out at 40” it’s off en entire 1/16” of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you’ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you’re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I’ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010” as it’s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
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Imran, is your angle scale not calibrated? Like i said I get good enough results with the scale but was thinking that it would be easy enough to set your fence by trial/error once you are happy with it make a gauge block out of wood that you could put between something (like the framework of the out rigger) and the fence to set it., it’s a bit agricultural but would work…
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On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:14 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have what you shared and that is what I used however it’s long side is 6” and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4” along the blade. I have Brian’s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12” for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian’s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45° pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45° the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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David P. Best
imran
Jason Holtz