Re: Tannewitz Brake Questions
When I worked in the wire biz we had drawing machines with 50 hp motors with nice disc brakes I expect pretty pricy My Oliver is like Dave K? You might look at Centauro new machines or Zimerman see how they handle it. My best advice is don’t be on the side of the machine when it’s running. Designing and building for 50 years
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On Nov 2, 2020, at 7:02 PM, Joe Jensen <joe.jensen@...> wrote:
?
I love the idea of the upper brake. I called and spoke with Tannewitz and they said the hydraulic system was nothing but a headache. ?He also said they
used a bunch of different setups over the years.? My saw is direct drive with the drum integrated in the wheel but no brake hardware for that drum.? The upper wheel has the integrated drum and the brakes were all there.? Even the rear plate that holds the
drum brakes and wheel cylinder is from a car. ?Apparently the brake parts are all AMC for a Jeep.? ?
?
Near as I can tell this is how it worked.
With power off, a spring pulled on the master cylinder shaft to keep the brakes applied.
Power on the machine and a large electrical solenoid would energize and take pressure off the master cylinder.
Stopping
-
When pressing the stop button the solenoid would lose power and the brakes would be applied.
-
Press the foot brake lever, which pulls a cable which pulls a lever to press the stop button, now acts like you press stop.
-
If a blade is too loose a microswitch opens and activates the stop circuit.
-
If a blade brakes, the tension drops opening a different microswitch activating the stop circuit
?
On my saw the hydraulic system was dry with no fluid, (abandoned) and a modern electronic brake setup like Tannewitz uses today was fitted.? While I
would like to have the upper brake the large electrical solenoid for the master cylinder looks to be burned up.? It might be possible to find a replacement which would let me have the brake on the upper wheel.? I will see but not hopeful.
?
?
?
Joe, I believe the purpose of the upper brake was to only activate when tension was released quickly as when the blade breaks.? The top wheel locks immediately to keep the blade from chewing up
everything.? The bottom brake activates manually with a foot pedal on my Oliver so your Tanny might be different.? The upper safety brake was fairly standard on large old saws.? Dave
I’ve started disassembly and the brakes apparently changed a lot over the years . On my machine both wheels have brake drums integrated but the lower
had no brakes.? There is a heavy steel plate that bolts to the motor that has one broken off bolt and a slot crudely cut with a torch.? It’s not clear that drum brakes ever mounted to that plate.? I will remove the upper brakes and the master cylinder.
?
?
What ever is the simplistic and cheapest I would avoid using a brake Justin case of emergency.
In larger machines bigger hp I would use disc brakes .
My oliver has an over ride that cuts the motor if the blade brakes than using the manual rub brake.
My best advise is don’t stand to the right of the blade so your not buy when blade breaks.
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell
Designing and building for 50 years
?My saw serial number says it was built in 1967 and it was built with hydraulic brakes.? At some point it was converted to the electronic brake setup Tannewitz uses now. I have not torn anything down yet, still don't have it off the pallet.?
But it looks like the solenoid that drives the master cylinder for the brakes may be fried.??
I had intended to restore it including the brakes but this will be a saw I intend to use and I assume the electronic brake is a better system than the car brake setup. Does anyone have experience?
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Re: Tannewitz Brake Questions
I love the idea of the upper brake. I called and spoke with Tannewitz and they said the hydraulic system was nothing but a headache. ?He also said they
used a bunch of different setups over the years.? My saw is direct drive with the drum integrated in the wheel but no brake hardware for that drum.? The upper wheel has the integrated drum and the brakes were all there.? Even the rear plate that holds the
drum brakes and wheel cylinder is from a car. ?Apparently the brake parts are all AMC for a Jeep.? ?
?
Near as I can tell this is how it worked.
With power off, a spring pulled on the master cylinder shaft to keep the brakes applied.
Power on the machine and a large electrical solenoid would energize and take pressure off the master cylinder.
Stopping
-
When pressing the stop button the solenoid would lose power and the brakes would be applied.
-
Press the foot brake lever, which pulls a cable which pulls a lever to press the stop button, now acts like you press stop.
-
If a blade is too loose a microswitch opens and activates the stop circuit.
-
If a blade brakes, the tension drops opening a different microswitch activating the stop circuit
?
On my saw the hydraulic system was dry with no fluid, (abandoned) and a modern electronic brake setup like Tannewitz uses today was fitted.? While I
would like to have the upper brake the large electrical solenoid for the master cylinder looks to be burned up.? It might be possible to find a replacement which would let me have the brake on the upper wheel.? I will see but not hopeful.
?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 8:47 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Tannewitz Brake Questions
?
Joe, I believe the purpose of the upper brake was to only activate when tension was released quickly as when the blade breaks.? The top wheel locks immediately to keep the blade from chewing up
everything.? The bottom brake activates manually with a foot pedal on my Oliver so your Tanny might be different.? The upper safety brake was fairly standard on large old saws.? Dave
I’ve started disassembly and the brakes apparently changed a lot over the years . On my machine both wheels have brake drums integrated but the lower
had no brakes.? There is a heavy steel plate that bolts to the motor that has one broken off bolt and a slot crudely cut with a torch.? It’s not clear that drum brakes ever mounted to that plate.? I will remove the upper brakes and the master cylinder.
?
?
What ever is the simplistic and cheapest I would avoid using a brake Justin case of emergency.
In larger machines bigger hp I would use disc brakes .
My oliver has an over ride that cuts the motor if the blade brakes than using the manual rub brake.
My best advise is don’t stand to the right of the blade so your not buy when blade breaks.
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell
Designing and building for 50 years
?My saw serial number says it was built in 1967 and it was built with hydraulic brakes.? At some point it was converted to the electronic brake setup Tannewitz uses now. I have not torn anything down yet, still don't have it off the pallet.?
But it looks like the solenoid that drives the master cylinder for the brakes may be fried.??
I had intended to restore it including the brakes but this will be a saw I intend to use and I assume the electronic brake is a better system than the car brake setup. Does anyone have experience?
|
Re: How to lift Tannewitz Bandsaw off pallet
Thanks Mac, it was not very difficult. I was able to strap it to my cantilever rack to stabilize and was done in less than an hour.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 8:29 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] How to lift Tannewitz Bandsaw off pallet
?
Cut the pallet up and remove were you want the Oak skids to go Attach and roll out.
Just need a reciprocating saw and ?BFH and pry bar just beet what you don’t want out trash it.
Than change the direction after you get it on flat floor in your shop.
For this stuff , IT is nice to have toe jacks , solid rollers , 5’ pry bars , machine trollies and on and on?
Mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
On Oct 10, 2020, at 12:20 PM, David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
?
Joe, is there a threaded hole in the upper arm behind the wheel for an eyebolt?? The PH weighs 1800 lbs and supposedly the C frame is thick and reinforced.? Minimum height is listed at 6'9" so
you must be close ( 7' doors should be outlawed ).? Dave
The challenge I’m seeing is there is not places I can see to attach straps to.? If I remove the top wheel
and brake stuff I could lift from the top of the arm but I’m not sure that’s strong enough.? I’d really like to work on the machine in the shop and not on the driveway in the sun.? The seller (LA School District) obviously lifted it onto a pallet so there
must be a way to lift it off the pallet.? Maybe their lift was sketchy and most certainly was done with a forklift.? There is a ring on the motor and I’m told that giant 875 RPM 5HP motor weights 350 lbs.? I can’t see lifting the machine from that ring as
it’s too low and the machine would rotate.
?
From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Davies
Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2020 9:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] How to lift Tannewitz Bandsaw off pallet
?
I bought a HF gantry crane to lift my MM bandsaw off the pallet
?
On Sat, Oct 10, 2020 at 11:26 AM David Kumm <davekumm@...> wrote:
I've not lifted mine but I'm assuming the top wheel itself is too high and not just the guard rail.? The good news is a good condition PH probably has
better resale value than a 36".? They are much rarer.? Dave
Hi all, I am back from picking up the Tannewitz I bought on auction.? I'm disappointed that it was a PH 30" and not a 36" but that's a risk I took with the sketchy listing.? At $775 with only one
small broken part I think I did ok.? It's in a the bed of a drop deck trailer out front of my shop. The pallet its strapped to is 6" high making it a couple inches too tall to roll into the shop.? I want to lift it off the pallet and place the permanent oak
skids underneath.? I don't see any factory lift points.? ?I'm sure someone here has done this.? There will be many more questions, the brake system must be non-functional as an electronic brake.? I will want to get that all back to original
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
This is mine
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 10:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder F38 feeder repair
?
The older F38 were sourced from Steff.? I don't know when they changed to Comatic .? Dave
Imran,
I have an exploded diagram from Felder.? It helps, but since I'm not that familiar with how machinery is built, I'm not sure how to proceed,
Joe,
I sent a message to Comatic for help, and they have not responded.? Maybe I'll email them too.??
Thanks,
? ?Dennis
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
I have a Steff 2038 from around 2000, made in Italy and I have a manual.? Mine has a gear shift lever.? If yours has the lever I bet it’s the same guts.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 10:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder F38 feeder repair
?
The older F38 were sourced from Steff.? I don't know when they changed to Comatic .? Dave
Imran,
I have an exploded diagram from Felder.? It helps, but since I'm not that familiar with how machinery is built, I'm not sure how to proceed,
Joe,
I sent a message to Comatic for help, and they have not responded.? Maybe I'll email them too.??
Thanks,
? ?Dennis
|
Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
Shopgear is a US seller of Comatic and they seem very helpful
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of dyclist@...
Sent: Monday, November 2, 2020 10:08 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder F38 feeder repair
?
Imran,
I have an exploded diagram from Felder.? It helps, but since I'm not that familiar with how machinery is built, I'm not sure how to proceed,
Joe,
I sent a message to Comatic for help, and they have not responded.? Maybe I'll email them too.??
Thanks,
? ?Dennis
|
Re: Ten woodworking tools you have to see
If one axis DRO is useful on the Multi-Router Z-axis, has anyone considered adding the other two axis?? Adapting the inexpensive Chinese Milling Machine 3-axis DRO Kit to the Multi-Router may be practical.? I did a quick search, but did not get? a hit; anyone have opinions, information, ideas, etc.?? Could the "Bolt Hole" function be used instead of templates?? Just wondered...
-Bob
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Re: Freeborn cope and pattern center groover option
Freeborn show bushings in the catalog.
Mark
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Thanks Johnny,
I'll take 5 more years converted to human years...
I'm a dog on the Chinese zodiac,? so things are making sense...
10-12 years ago I was modernizing my kitchen.? I had a pot of hide glue heated up to repair some delaminated? cabinet doors.? I somehow managed to knock the pot off the saw bench onto the floor.? There wasn’t much glue left, maybe half a cup at most.? The linoleum was old and due for replacement so I left it to cool, thinking it’d be easier to scrape up in a few minutes, but when I came back the floor was clean as a whistle.? The only clue I had was my old Australian Shepard sitting next to the door with a guilty expression.? She must have lived another 5 years after that so I suspect you’ll be okay.
Johnny
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10-12 years ago I was modernizing my kitchen. I had a pot of hide glue heated up to repair some delaminated cabinet doors. I somehow managed to knock the pot off the saw bench onto the floor. There wasn’t much glue left, maybe half a cup at most. The linoleum was old and due for replacement so I left it to cool, thinking it’d be easier to scrape up in a few minutes, but when I came back the floor was clean as a whistle. The only clue I had was my old Australian Shepard sitting next to the door with a guilty expression. She must have lived another 5 years after that so I suspect you’ll be okay.
Johnny
|
Allan " Rocky " Lane.? After a million B westerns, he is best known as a horse ( and he didn't really like horses all that much ).? Dave
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Thanks Dave for remembering that fine example of 60's television...
Marlowe?
On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 1:05 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Oh Wilbur!? Stay healthy, the Dr's office is no place to go now.? Dave
Well, danger may be overstating things,? but it is a definite concern...
I recently cleaned my coffeemaker and brewed some coffee.? ?I take both cream and sugar.? I like the sugar in the raw.??
To avoid attracting rodents, I keep anything foodlike in the refrigerator.? ?I also keep instant glues and hide glue in there.
I haven't used my hide glue in a while (still finishing the shop build...),? but must say that a sandwich bag of hide glue looks remarkably like sugar in the raw...
Needless to say,? my coffee wasn't any sweeter with hide glue.? Seems I'm not suffering any I'll effects yet.? If you're old enough to remember Mr. Ed, there may be a reboot in the works soon...
Marlowe McGraw?
|
Thanks Dave for remembering that fine example of 60's television...
Marlowe?
On Mon, Nov 2, 2020, 1:05 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Oh Wilbur!? Stay healthy, the Dr's office is no place to go now.? Dave
Well, danger may be overstating things,? but it is a definite concern...
I recently cleaned my coffeemaker and brewed some coffee.? ?I take both cream and sugar.? I like the sugar in the raw.??
To avoid attracting rodents, I keep anything foodlike in the refrigerator.? ?I also keep instant glues and hide glue in there.
I haven't used my hide glue in a while (still finishing the shop build...),? but must say that a sandwich bag of hide glue looks remarkably like sugar in the raw...
Needless to say,? my coffee wasn't any sweeter with hide glue.? Seems I'm not suffering any I'll effects yet.? If you're old enough to remember Mr. Ed, there may be a reboot in the works soon...
Marlowe McGraw?
|
Oh Wilbur!? Stay healthy, the Dr's office is no place to go now.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Well, danger may be overstating things,? but it is a definite concern...
I recently cleaned my coffeemaker and brewed some coffee.? ?I take both cream and sugar.? I like the sugar in the raw.??
To avoid attracting rodents, I keep anything foodlike in the refrigerator.? ?I also keep instant glues and hide glue in there.
I haven't used my hide glue in a while (still finishing the shop build...),? but must say that a sandwich bag of hide glue looks remarkably like sugar in the raw...
Needless to say,? my coffee wasn't any sweeter with hide glue.? Seems I'm not suffering any I'll effects yet.? If you're old enough to remember Mr. Ed, there may be a reboot in the works soon...
Marlowe McGraw?
|
Well, danger may be overstating things,? but it is a definite concern...
I recently cleaned my coffeemaker and brewed some coffee.? ?I take both cream and sugar.? I like the sugar in the raw.??
To avoid attracting rodents, I keep anything foodlike in the refrigerator.? ?I also keep instant glues and hide glue in there.
I haven't used my hide glue in a while (still finishing the shop build...),? but must say that a sandwich bag of hide glue looks remarkably like sugar in the raw...
Needless to say,? my coffee wasn't any sweeter with hide glue.? Seems I'm not suffering any I'll effects yet.? If you're old enough to remember Mr. Ed, there may be a reboot in the works soon...
Marlowe McGraw?
|
Re: Freeborn cope and pattern center groover option
I use Amana Tool bushings.? They are available from multiple sources.??
--
Jerry P
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
"You can observe a lot by watching."? Yogi Berra
|
Re: Ten woodworking tools you have to see
Jason, I'd love to see a few pics of your guitars....
Stephen?
On Mon, 2 Nov 2020, 14:27 Jason Holtz, < jholtzy@...> wrote: I have not used that disc sander, but I've been using a hand cranked one for years. I teach a class on making Shaker oval boxes every summer on a picnic table in the woods. It became the solution for fitting tops and bottoms very accurately, and quite quickly if you did a decent job cutting out with the coping saw. Mine is a converted Wards Master hand cranked grinder. I replaced the sharpening wheel with a plywood disc where the sandpaper is applied. I built a table fixture around it dedicated to the 3 degree bevel that we use on the parts. The grinder is geared so that you can crank a little and let it coast if you are just fine tuning. Everyone who's used it loves the thing. If only I could find a solution for dust collection!
I've been using the JDS Multirouter for nearly 25 years. One thing it can do that the Pantorouter can't is be a very fast production machine. When equipped with the pneumatic clamps, you can process chair parts at an alarming rate once you've got a setup. You couldn't do it any faster without spending exponentially more money on a twin table 5 axis CNC. I don't have any experience with a tenoner to know if that's a solution, but those are huge, single purpose machines not many of us have the space for. I mill brass and aluminum on the JDS.? Using a shop made jig which is essentially a vertical table, I can machine very small delicate parts like pickup rings for the guitars I build. I love that they use Thomson linear rails and bearings. The thing stays accurate year after year without any slop. I've never had a DRO on mine and I get by fine, but I'm sure I'd never go back if I installed it. It would be a slippery slope to have to add those all over the shop. Maybe as my eyes get worse...
I've thought of multiple improvements that could be made over the years, but they fall on deaf ears over at JDS. Now that they've been sold maybe things will change? I wouldn't be without one in the shop, or two or three. Down to just two now.
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
The older F38 were sourced from Steff.? I don't know when they changed to Comatic .? Dave
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Show quoted text
Imran,
I have an exploded diagram from Felder.? It helps, but since I'm not that familiar with how machinery is built, I'm not sure how to proceed,
Joe,
I sent a message to Comatic for help, and they have not responded.? Maybe I'll email them too.??
Thanks,
? ?Dennis
|
Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
can you share the diagrams? if it is a hard copy you can take pics of pages. lots of smart folks here (not me) who can provide insight.
imran
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On Nov 2, 2020, at 12:07 PM, dyclist@... wrote: ?Imran,
I have an exploded diagram from Felder.? It helps, but since I'm not that familiar with how machinery is built, I'm not sure how to proceed,
Joe,
I sent a message to Comatic for help, and they have not responded.? Maybe I'll email them too.??
Thanks,
? ?Dennis
|
Re: Freeborn cope and pattern center groover option
Freeborn used to make a 5.5mm cutter for undersized ply.? Whatever you choose, consider the 5/8 recess.? It gives extra glue area and stabilizes the cope and stick and leaves enough room for 1/4" od tubing to center the panel and snug it with still giving room
for expansion if needed.? I cut 1" pieces and fit panels cut at 7/16 shy.? Dave
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Hello all,
I want to buy a set of Freeborn Cope and Pattern cutters for a cabinet project.? Freeborn gives you the option of choosing the center groover's width and depth of cut.? The standard is 1/4" x 3/8".? I routine purchase 1/4-inch plywood, but none of it ever is
truly 1/4-inch in thickness.? The thickness varies from batch to batch, so I always adjust my groove cutter or dado set to match the material.? For this Freeborn set, I want to ask which center groover option people recommend? Also, beside Whitehill in the
UK, where else are top-hat bushings available for purchase to adapt the Freeborn cutters from 1 1/4 inch bore to a 30mm spindle on a KF700SP?? The archive mentions Paul Jordan's company, but I can't find it using the common search engines.??
I am looking at PC-10-060, PC-10-050, or PC-10-070.??
Thanks!
SW
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
Imran,
I have an exploded diagram from Felder.? It helps, but since I'm not that familiar with how machinery is built, I'm not sure how to proceed,
Joe,
I sent a message to Comatic for help, and they have not responded.? Maybe I'll email them too.??
Thanks,
? ?Dennis
|
Joe Jensen
Mark Foster
imran