Re: Safety Cutter Head with Generic Limiter?
Not to achieve a MAN rating only, but to be save when used with manual feeding, e. g. w/o power feeder. Maximum cut should be limited at max 1.1mm to be used w/o power feeder and MAN (or BG-Test) rating.?
Kind regards,?
Jonathan?
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
Not to beat a dead horse but I saw this when I was looking for a saw with longer slider. Until seeing this I thought a lot more space is needed for the PF. Sorry pic is not in good focus. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Terence via groups.io Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 11:29 AM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions ? All: A regular table saw placed just so does interfere with a power feeder for the shaper/router function of a KF. ? ? Looks mighty fine Randy ? ? you mean like this Imran?? On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, 02:03:52 PM PST, imranindiana via <imranindiana@...> wrote: I still like the idea of having something ready to use w/o any setup. If I had a cabinet saw prior to buying Felder, I would do it like Randy has in a heart beat considering you don’t get much for selling it. It is also handy to have a saw available if you have a saw/shaper machine. On the other hand I won’t go out and buy a saw for this purpose or if I had separate saw and shaper.
On Mar 10, 2021, at 3:42 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
Cripes… just use end mills or router bits in the high speed spindle. I’ve done it that way for years. ? BTW, a domestic saw placed at the outfeed of KF or a saw only machine works really well as a dado saw and really does not take much extra space.
On Mar 10, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Stephen Zielke <tseelkah@...> wrote:
?Hi all - I am negotiating the purchase of an older KF700 (year 2000). I realize that my typical joinery/grooving/rabbeting techniques with a US style dado blade set on a 5/8 arbor are going to need to change. I've got a few questions:
1. will any Felder saw accept their proprietary adjustable dado heads, or does the tool need to be ordered specifically capable (for example, with Minimax a saw must be specifically ordered with slider & arbor positioned for dado cuts)
2. is there a different dado table top "zero clearance" type insert, and does anyone know the part # for a 2000 year saw (current owner doesn't have part or diagram) - I can also fab one from aluminum or plywood
3. will the 180 or 228mm adjustable dado saw specific heads also fit on the 30mm shaper spindle? That would at least partially justify the insane pricing from Felder.
4. will any and all shaper specific heads fit on the saw spindle...or are they missing the saw blade specific brake pin holes? Thinking Magic Moulder concept, if you're familiar.
5. for less cost than an adjustable head, I am looking at the fixed 4mm and 5mm grooving table saw blades. Has anyone used the 5mm, and is it a good match (or sloppy) for Baltic Birch 5mm plywood? In cross grain, does the 6 flat tooth configuration make for terribly ugly tearout?
6. if I have a two blade, "box joint cutter" set, and I'm willing to pay to have it bored for the Felder saw arbor, does the blade clamp have room to stack two blade thicknesses on it? I could specify that the blade brake pins be carefully offset to make sure the interlocking left/right carbide cutters don't conflict. This would at least allow for nominal 1/4" dados. Let me know if there is something specific about the arbor length or nut that would make this unsafe or unfeasible. I don't have the saw in my possession yet, so I can't self determine this.
7. what manufacturers make an alternative dado head for felder, and are they any more affordable? i.e. $200-400 vs. $600+
This tool only has a 30mm shaper spindle. Regarding the right part # for a router 15,000RPM spindle, the catalogue and e-shop are confusing for part #'s for this older machine. I am guessing, that as a 3 speed machine, I need to look at the Series 6 part #401-136, which for some shaper parts in the catalog also has series 7 or 3 speeds called out in parantheses.
Can anyone with this age machine confirm that part #424-111 for series 700 from April/2007 is the WRONG part #? I'd hate to spend $900 and find out I bought the wrong one.
Also, if anyone has an adjustable dado cutter or high speed spindle they find is just collecting dust on the shelf, I'd be open to negotiating purchase. Reply to me direct, so we don't clutter up the forum.
thanks a ton, (well 600+ kilos, that's the weight of this machine)
Steve Z./Seattle ? <Screenshot_20200809-040242_Instagram.jpg> <Screenshot_20200809-040228_Instagram.jpg>
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Re: Safety Cutter Head with Generic Limiter?
Hi Patrick, ? I plan to use power feeder. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Patrick Kane Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2021 12:49 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Safety Cutter Head with Generic Limiter? ? I am under the impression limiters exist to achieve a MAN rating. Do you intend to hand feed the workpieces or run them through with a feeder?? ? On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote: Since it will take 4-6 weeks to get a blade set from Felder, I found an Amana cutter that is exact hole pattern and blade thickness. However, their cutterhead is designed without limiters. I have ordered limiters from Felder but in meanwhile can I use the straight edge limiters? Here is what it looks like.
I just need to run 8 cedar boards for glueup. I understand it is not as safe but I am profiling face (not end profiling) which is very unlikely to get sucked in.
Imran
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Re: Safety Cutter Head with Generic Limiter?
I am under the impression limiters exist to achieve a MAN rating. Do you intend to hand feed the workpieces or run them through with a feeder??
Patrick
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:23 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Since it will take 4-6 weeks to get a blade set from Felder, I found an Amana cutter that is exact hole pattern and blade thickness. However, their cutterhead is designed without limiters. I have ordered limiters from Felder but in meanwhile can I use the straight edge limiters? Here is what it looks like.
I just need to run 8 cedar boards for glueup. I understand it is not as safe but I am profiling face (not end profiling) which is very unlikely to get sucked in.
Imran
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
Randy,?
????????? Thanks for the photos. I've never enjoyed having to change to a rip blade from a crosscut blade to rip lumber, so I've kept my old table saw after I got a K700s. But now that I see what you've done, I'm thinking it's a great idea. Now if I can only get a router table in there somewhere....
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
I have a nos router spindle that is probably a 424-111 for sale. 
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Safety Cutter Head with Generic Limiter?
Since it will take 4-6 weeks to get a blade set from Felder, I found an Amana cutter that is exact hole pattern and blade thickness. However, their cutterhead is designed without limiters. I have ordered limiters from Felder but in meanwhile can I use the straight edge limiters? Here is what it looks like.
I just need to run 8 cedar boards for glueup. I understand it is not as safe but I am profiling face (not end profiling) which is very unlikely to get sucked in.
Imran
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
All:
A regular table saw placed just so does interfere with a power feeder for the shaper/router function of a KF.
Best, Terry
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Looks mighty fine Randy ?
Imran ?
you mean like this Imran??
On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, 02:03:52 PM PST, imranindiana via < imranindiana@...> wrote:
I still like the idea of having something ready to use w/o any setup. If I had a cabinet saw prior to buying Felder, I would do it like Randy has in a heart beat considering you don’t get much for selling it.
It is also handy to have a saw available if you have a saw/shaper machine. On the other hand I won’t go out and buy a saw for this purpose or if I had separate saw and shaper.
To each his/her own.
Imran? On Mar 10, 2021, at 3:42 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? Cripes… just use end mills or router bits in the high speed spindle. I’ve done it that way for years.
Stephen,
BTW, a domestic saw placed at the outfeed of KF or a saw only machine works really well as a dado saw and really does not take much extra space.
Imran On Mar 10, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Hi all - I am negotiating the purchase of an older KF700 (year 2000). I realize that my typical joinery/grooving/rabbeting techniques with a US style dado blade set on a 5/8 arbor are going to need to change. I've got a few questions:
1. will any Felder saw accept their proprietary adjustable dado heads, or does the tool need to be ordered specifically capable (for example, with Minimax a saw must be specifically ordered with slider & arbor positioned for dado cuts)
2. is there a different dado table top "zero clearance" type insert, and does anyone know the part # for a 2000 year saw (current owner doesn't have part or diagram) - I can also fab one from aluminum or plywood
3. will the 180 or 228mm adjustable dado saw specific heads also fit on the 30mm shaper spindle? That would at least partially justify the insane pricing from Felder.
4. will any and all shaper specific heads fit on the saw spindle...or are they missing the saw blade specific brake pin holes? Thinking Magic Moulder concept, if you're familiar.
5. for less cost than an adjustable head, I am looking at the fixed 4mm and 5mm grooving table saw blades. Has anyone used the 5mm, and is it a good match (or sloppy) for Baltic Birch 5mm plywood? In cross grain, does the 6 flat tooth configuration make for terribly ugly tearout?
6. if I have a two blade, "box joint cutter" set, and I'm willing to pay to have it bored for the Felder saw arbor, does the blade clamp have room to stack two blade thicknesses on it? I could specify that the blade brake pins be carefully offset to make sure the interlocking left/right carbide cutters don't conflict. This would at least allow for nominal 1/4" dados. Let me know if there is something specific about the arbor length or nut that would make this unsafe or unfeasible. I don't have the saw in my possession yet, so I can't self determine this.
7. what manufacturers make an alternative dado head for felder, and are they any more affordable? i.e. $200-400 vs. $600+
This tool only has a 30mm shaper spindle. Regarding the right part # for a router 15,000RPM spindle, the catalogue and e-shop are confusing for part #'s for this older machine. I am guessing, that as a 3 speed machine, I need to look at the Series 6 part #401-136, which for some shaper parts in the catalog also has series 7 or 3 speeds called out in parantheses.
Can anyone with this age machine confirm that part #424-111 for series 700 from April/2007 is the WRONG part #? I'd hate to spend $900 and find out I bought the wrong one.
Also, if anyone has an adjustable dado cutter or high speed spindle they find is just collecting dust on the shelf, I'd be open to negotiating purchase. Reply to me direct, so we don't clutter up the forum.
thanks a ton, (well 600+ kilos, that's the weight of this machine)
Steve Z./Seattle
<Screenshot_20200809-040242_Instagram.jpg> <Screenshot_20200809-040228_Instagram.jpg>
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
Never done it on my little Inca 3 wheeler either… and it isn’t the stiffest saw on the planet.
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I agree, on my FB540 Felder I’ve never adjusted drift ? ? Drift does not exist if the saw is set up correctly and then the need for the fence to have adjustment for drift goes away.??
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
Yes, but that can be more complicated than it’s worth. I have .750 diameter router bits for dados in Melamine (which measures like .740), and then I have a .720 bit for plywood that is undersize.
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On Mar 11, 2021, at 8:45 AM, Bill Belanger < Bill@...> wrote:
Another thought... With our saws being as accurate as they are, multiple passes with a regular saw blade should suffice without the need for something dedicated?
Bill Bélanger? On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 08:29 Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: Get the right sized router bits and your dado’s are one pass. They make bits for full size and undersize of pretty much any thickness.
On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:48 PM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote:
Thanks all. I enjoyed the shop photos of dual saws.?
Hmm, that's kind of a bummer, I might not have bought the saw if I'd known it was not dado compatible. I falsely assumed that since the new machines could do it, that it was in the legacy machines.?
The new 2020 catalog seems to indicate the part number for the router spindle is #401-136. I assume either this is a typo, or the replacement for part #400-136. I will get the serial number for my machine and talk to the sales team before buying anything. I am planning on selling my other Rojek slider (with a 5/8" US style arbor, just fine for dados) to pay for the KF700, and wouldn't have room in my 1 car garage shop to really do back-back machines (back to back saw-shapers does sound tempting in a crazy wayl). But, I have a portable jobsite saw for work that can still run the dado - I'll see if it makes sense to set it up into an outfeed table. I'll probably end up using that, in tandem with rabbetting cutter in the shaper.?
The high speed spindle will be an "aspirational" purchase, maybe next year. It seems expensive, but when I consider how much tooling for it I already own, and the cost of full size 30mm tooling, it's actually worth investing in. Would certainly get me back to the dado like operations for groves in the middle of wide panels. Just more room for error with multiple passes, compared to shimming a dado and then production cutting.?
Steve
?<felder high speed.tiff>
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
I like the idea.? The Tannewitz table was apparently set where the factory thought it should be and all parts have taper pins and bolts.? If I have
drift the fence will have to adust.
?
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
Another thought... With our saws being as accurate as they are, multiple passes with a regular saw blade should suffice without the need for something dedicated?
Bill Bélanger?
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 08:29 Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: Get the right sized router bits and your dado’s are one pass. They make bits for full size and undersize of pretty much any thickness.
On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:48 PM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote:
Thanks all. I enjoyed the shop photos of dual saws.?
Hmm, that's kind of a bummer, I might not have bought the saw if I'd known it was not dado compatible. I falsely assumed that since the new machines could do it, that it was in the legacy machines.?
The new 2020 catalog seems to indicate the part number for the router spindle is #401-136. I assume either this is a typo, or the replacement for part #400-136. I will get the serial number for my machine and talk to the sales team before buying anything. I am planning on selling my other Rojek slider (with a 5/8" US style arbor, just fine for dados) to pay for the KF700, and wouldn't have room in my 1 car garage shop to really do back-back machines (back to back saw-shapers does sound tempting in a crazy wayl). But, I have a portable jobsite saw for work that can still run the dado - I'll see if it makes sense to set it up into an outfeed table. I'll probably end up using that, in tandem with rabbetting cutter in the shaper.?
The high speed spindle will be an "aspirational" purchase, maybe next year. It seems expensive, but when I consider how much tooling for it I already own, and the cost of full size 30mm tooling, it's actually worth investing in. Would certainly get me back to the dado like operations for groves in the middle of wide panels. Just more room for error with multiple passes, compared to shimming a dado and then production cutting.?
Steve
?<felder high speed.tiff>
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
Get the right sized router bits and your dado’s are one pass. They make bits for full size and undersize of pretty much any thickness.
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On Mar 10, 2021, at 9:48 PM, Stephen Zielke < tseelkah@...> wrote:
Thanks all. I enjoyed the shop photos of dual saws.?
Hmm, that's kind of a bummer, I might not have bought the saw if I'd known it was not dado compatible. I falsely assumed that since the new machines could do it, that it was in the legacy machines.?
The new 2020 catalog seems to indicate the part number for the router spindle is #401-136. I assume either this is a typo, or the replacement for part #400-136. I will get the serial number for my machine and talk to the sales team before buying anything. I am planning on selling my other Rojek slider (with a 5/8" US style arbor, just fine for dados) to pay for the KF700, and wouldn't have room in my 1 car garage shop to really do back-back machines (back to back saw-shapers does sound tempting in a crazy wayl). But, I have a portable jobsite saw for work that can still run the dado - I'll see if it makes sense to set it up into an outfeed table. I'll probably end up using that, in tandem with rabbetting cutter in the shaper.?
The high speed spindle will be an "aspirational" purchase, maybe next year. It seems expensive, but when I consider how much tooling for it I already own, and the cost of full size 30mm tooling, it's actually worth investing in. Would certainly get me back to the dado like operations for groves in the middle of wide panels. Just more room for error with multiple passes, compared to shimming a dado and then production cutting.?
Steve
?<felder high speed.tiff>
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
On 3/11/21 6:34 AM, Mark Kessler wrote: have zero drift... I think drift of a function of smaller saws that can not properly tension a blade.
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My old saws have a footbrake and I'm fine with that.? If you run off a vfd you can use it to help with the braking.? What I do consider a great safety aid is my saws lock the top wheel and cut the power when a blade breaks.? I don't know if the new larger ones
do that.
As? to 610 vs 710, the significant difference is frame strength.? It depends on your needs but the 710 will tension a carbide 1" blade higher than the 610.? Some will argue 25K tension isn't necessary but my experience is that to get full potential from a Trimaster,
25-30K is the sweet spot on my saws.? YMMV.
My saws have crowned tires so drift isn't much of an issue.? I also never change blades ( just buy another saw ) so it is always in the same spot on the wheel.?
I'd also watch for a three phase 24-28" used saw.? A vfd costs about $400 and with a little wiring you can still get into a used machine that has arguably a better build than the 610 or 710 for about 3-4K.? Dave
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Hello all,
I am hoping the forum can?clarify a few points on bandsaws I was unable to locate.?Let’s please set aside dragging in other brands and the 540 model since Lucky is going to convince every owner around who owns one to keep it.
Like others here I also have a fondness for old iron and restorations so we can presume if anything larger than these models is ever desired it will be ancient and heavy. Use case is random.
Now to the point. There appears to be an error in the 2020 e-catalogue on the 710 imperial depth measurement and going by mm it is only one inch deeper then the 610? Are they both essentially the same at 48” deep?
Working heights, is there an ideal height for a 5’10 user? The 610 is 33” working height and the 710 is 36. One could sneak leveling casters under the 610 gaining mobility and keeping a near 36” height. My current reference is a Laguna 14bx operating at 38”
stock and over 40” with casters that seems a bit high based on the machines footprint/proportions.
Price delta aside (unknown)?are there any drawbacks to the 710 understanding it is 3 phase only and it’s cast iron table does not go all the way back to the column like the other models do (aesthetics).
Any reason to add the e-stop option? This may intertwine with my last question regarding the blade brake. Electric or foot pedal? Somewhere I read a comment indicating USA models had a manual brake but current images do not show it.
Thanks,--?
Mike B
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
David, thanks for the compliment.?
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Re: Felder Dado and Shaper cutter questions
? Hi Stephen,
Warning on “no dado” was a miss on my part. I used to warn about that regularly but for some reason don’t recall doing so lately.
I also have written both 401-136 and 400-136. I went with Brian’s P/N assuming a typo. Since I did not order it and bought it used I cannot confirm. I do not see PN on the spindle either but mine looks like the one on left on felder eshop
They do come up for sale used but not often enough. I recall 2 in about last 12 months. One here (i bought) and one on ebay.
Imran?
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On Mar 10, 2021, at 11:48 PM, Stephen Zielke <tseelkah@...> wrote: ?Thanks all. I enjoyed the shop photos of dual saws.?
Hmm, that's kind of a bummer, I might not have bought the saw if I'd known it was not dado compatible. I falsely assumed that since the new machines could do it, that it was in the legacy machines.?
The new 2020 catalog seems to indicate the part number for the router spindle is #401-136. I assume either this is a typo, or the replacement for part #400-136. I will get the serial number for my machine and talk to the sales team before buying anything. I am planning on selling my other Rojek slider (with a 5/8" US style arbor, just fine for dados) to pay for the KF700, and wouldn't have room in my 1 car garage shop to really do back-back machines (back to back saw-shapers does sound tempting in a crazy wayl). But, I have a portable jobsite saw for work that can still run the dado - I'll see if it makes sense to set it up into an outfeed table. I'll probably end up using that, in tandem with rabbetting cutter in the shaper.?
The high speed spindle will be an "aspirational" purchase, maybe next year. It seems expensive, but when I consider how much tooling for it I already own, and the cost of full size 30mm tooling, it's actually worth investing in. Would certainly get me back to the dado like operations for groves in the middle of wide panels. Just more room for error with multiple passes, compared to shimming a dado and then production cutting.?
Steve
? <felder high speed.tiff>
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Glen, Great reply & story on totem pole, thankyou. When I find photo I will show what other very important duty I utilise my drill press for. Colin ? ? Sent from for Windows 10 ?
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From: Glen ChristensenSent: Thursday, 4 March 2021 3:09 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [FOG] Totem Pole ? For a couple of you that made comments about the totem pole in my shop I am sharing how that came about.
The Totem pole came in for a little body work and a paint job, but this is the story.
It is 50 years old, I was always with my dad when he was doing woodworking as I was fascinated. At five I was on the bandsaw doing things with him and move up to bigger tools as I got older
When I was 5 he took me to see this "guy" that made stuff with only a chain saw. I was so fascinated watching him that we stayed the entire time he cut the totem pole In which I think was only an hour or two. My dad bought it and home we came, dont know how much he paid for it but I remember my mom was pissed. My dad being my dad installed it in the front yard so mom would have to look at it every time she came home. Well 50 years later when I sold my parents home I retrieved it and here it is for a tune up and to be mounted in my front yard to piss off my girlfriend. Traditions.
I am using the West System to fix the cracks and the dry rot base ( thanks to you guys for turning me on to the West System) and found the old paint colors in the house when I sold it.
That is the story and I am sticking to it.
Glen
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Re: Adding fence to bandsaw?
I have always adjusted my table never the fence and have zero drift...
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Jonathan Martens
imran
Jonathan Smith
Joe Jensen
Bill Belanger
