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Re: Thoughts on purchasing older F7 shapers?

 

Hi, the 3 speed spindles for the 7 series are available in 30mm, 40mm and 1 1/4"
?
The motor has no effect on bearing lifespan, rotational speed and loads do, which is dependent upon what you do with the machine.
?
Regards, Rod.
Kappa misfortune and advice being sought

 

About two weeks ago, I went to turn on my Kappa 590 saw and it wouldn't boot up.? Unfortunately, the SD Card that holds the operating system and tool data etc. failed.? The fix required the local agent attending and with a new SD Card he installed the OS from a USB stick.? (A backup was made at the time the machine was installed but this wasn't available as the tech needed to recalibrate the machine)
Sadly, there is no facility on the machine to backup the system so it can be restored in the event of failure.? So thuis doesn't bite me on the backside again, my intention is to remove the SD Card and on Linux using a disk imaging utility attempt to create an image and copy it to another SD Card and see if that works, but before doing so, thought I might ask if anybody else has attempted / succeeded doing this.??
?
Another issue I have is re-entering the saw blade data.? I have a vague recollection of just entering the Felder part number of each blade and all the fields auto filled, but I haven't been able to achieve this since.? Having a quick read through the Felder manuals hasn't yielded what I'm after either.? Is anyone able to comment on how they add blades, please?
?
Cheers
David
Re: Compressor question

 

Thanks for the info. ?Yes, it is a huge difference going from 75 to 62 db. ?Anyone in Southern California want a California Air 20 gal 4 hp?
Re: Compressor question

 

Brett,
?
Thanks for the tips, I'll have to try that.
?
Brian,
?
I've got to give Eastwood props on addressing that issue. If that video had been out a few months ago I probably would have just ordered the 30/60 instead of researching alternatives.
?
Bruce
Re: Compressor question

 

FWIW, regarding the Eastwood compressors, they just released an updated version that has some new features to improve reliability. Best part is it is retrofittable to any of the previous units. I just saw this video a couple days ago:






Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com


On Thursday, September 26, 2024 at 09:40:51 AM MST, Brett Wissel <brettwissel@...> wrote:


Joel,?

I can't imagine a world where the 80/120 would be a better choice than the 30/60 unless you start heavy media blasting or fire up a full time spray finishing shop at your house.

Bruce - the higher end scrolls are so nice, but the price curve is eye watering - great that you found a deal.

If you want the autodrains to be more tolerable, run them into a muffler cup (rags in a 2 liter bottle or the like) or plumb them to the outside world. Still might have to find a creative way to deal with the unloading valve bleedoff (we have tied a bunch of rags around it to muffle, always going to be louder than the compressor itself running.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 10:05?AM Bruce Gordon via <bruce=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joel,
?
Fwiw, I ended up getting the Anest Iwata compressor, . I got the 5hp 60 gallon one from eBay for a super good price. They are about 10k new but you can find them used fairly easily. I got a number for a local Anest Iwata sales rep and he spent a good about of time telling me about the unit, even after I told him I was looking at a used one off of eBay. The unit I got had only 217 hours on it and the rep said that was hardly broken in. They use basically the same scroll technology that the Eastwoods use but the Anest Iwata's are oil free. My crude understanding is that the Eastwood's use oil to make up for scroll head not being manufactured to as tight of tolerances as the more industrial oil free units. Either way the scroll compressors are quite and don't have the need to run continuously to get longer life spans like the screw compressors do. I feel I got lucky finding the deal on eBay, otherwise I would have gotten the Eastwood.
?
I should mention that I did have to clean out the tank, it had a surprising amount of rusty gunk build up clogging the drain. With only 217 hours, I'm guessing they didn't have the automatic drain purge plugged in, it had one and it works fine. Not sure but everything else was squeaky clean.
?
Lastly, it is pleasantly quiet but the drain purge still scares the crap out of me when it kicks in.
?
Bruce



--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110

314.772.2167
brett@...
Re: Compressor question

 

Joel,?

I can't imagine a world where the 80/120 would be a better choice than the 30/60 unless you start heavy media blasting or fire up a full time spray finishing shop at your house.

Bruce - the higher end scrolls are so nice, but the price curve is eye watering - great that you found a deal.

If you want the autodrains to be more tolerable, run them into a muffler cup (rags in a 2 liter bottle or the like) or plumb them to the outside world. Still might have to find a creative way to deal with the unloading valve bleedoff (we have tied a bunch of rags around it to muffle, always going to be louder than the compressor itself running.

On Thu, Sep 26, 2024 at 10:05?AM Bruce Gordon via <bruce=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Joel,
?
Fwiw, I ended up getting the Anest Iwata compressor, . I got the 5hp 60 gallon one from eBay for a super good price. They are about 10k new but you can find them used fairly easily. I got a number for a local Anest Iwata sales rep and he spent a good about of time telling me about the unit, even after I told him I was looking at a used one off of eBay. The unit I got had only 217 hours on it and the rep said that was hardly broken in. They use basically the same scroll technology that the Eastwoods use but the Anest Iwata's are oil free. My crude understanding is that the Eastwood's use oil to make up for scroll head not being manufactured to as tight of tolerances as the more industrial oil free units. Either way the scroll compressors are quite and don't have the need to run continuously to get longer life spans like the screw compressors do. I feel I got lucky finding the deal on eBay, otherwise I would have gotten the Eastwood.
?
I should mention that I did have to clean out the tank, it had a surprising amount of rusty gunk build up clogging the drain. With only 217 hours, I'm guessing they didn't have the automatic drain purge plugged in, it had one and it works fine. Not sure but everything else was squeaky clean.
?
Lastly, it is pleasantly quiet but the drain purge still scares the crap out of me when it kicks in.
?
Bruce



--
Brett Wissel
Saint Louis Restoration
1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd)
St Louis, MO 63110

314.772.2167
brett@...
Re: Compressor question

 

Hi Joel,
?
Fwiw, I ended up getting the Anest Iwata compressor, . I got the 5hp 60 gallon one from eBay for a super good price. They are about 10k new but you can find them used fairly easily. I got a number for a local Anest Iwata sales rep and he spent a good about of time telling me about the unit, even after I told him I was looking at a used one off of eBay. The unit I got had only 217 hours on it and the rep said that was hardly broken in. They use basically the same scroll technology that the Eastwoods use but the Anest Iwata's are oil free. My crude understanding is that the Eastwood's use oil to make up for scroll head not being manufactured to as tight of tolerances as the more industrial oil free units. Either way the scroll compressors are quite and don't have the need to run continuously to get longer life spans like the screw compressors do. I feel I got lucky finding the deal on eBay, otherwise I would have gotten the Eastwood.
?
I should mention that I did have to clean out the tank, it had a surprising amount of rusty gunk build up clogging the drain. With only 217 hours, I'm guessing they didn't have the automatic drain purge plugged in, it had one and it works fine. Not sure but everything else was squeaky clean.
?
Lastly, it is pleasantly quiet but the drain purge still scares the crap out of me when it kicks in.
?
Bruce
Re: Compressor question

 

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Hi Joel,

You probably already know this but why not share with the group. Sound pressure doubles or halves with a change of 3db. So one may think that the sound level will be 1/4 going from 75 to 63db. Alas, human ear perceive sound doubling or halving with a change of 10db. So Eastwood should in theory be half as loud as your California Air.

Hope this is helpful for someone.

Imran Malik

On Sep 26, 2024, at 12:21?AM, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:

?
"The bigger version is 3-phase, which I would have bought but back in the day we had no other 3-phase equipment in service and didn't want to pay for it. Hindsight is 2020...."
?
As I was listening to my not so "Ultra Quiet" 75 db California Air 4HP, 20 gal cycle once again, I started to think about upgrading to an Eastwood. ?I searched the forum, as I remembered reading about Eastwood, with this being the first time I read something negative.
?
What impressed me about the Eastwood is that they are at 62-63 db, which is way more ultra quiet than my current compressor. ?I know of no other compressor that quiet other than something like a Kaiser that has the drawbacks as others mentioned when not used big time.
?
For the Eastwood, I would think the 30/60 would be a better choice for me than the 80/120. ?Same db. ?I do not need the extra CFM. ?I would save money and space. ?However, I would only want to cry once. ?So, does anyone have any reason to think the 80/120 would be a better choice as far as reliability? ?
Re: Compressor question

 

"The bigger version is 3-phase, which I would have bought but back in the day we had no other 3-phase equipment in service and didn't want to pay for it. Hindsight is 2020...."
?
As I was listening to my not so "Ultra Quiet" 75 db California Air 4HP, 20 gal cycle once again, I started to think about upgrading to an Eastwood. ?I searched the forum, as I remembered reading about Eastwood, with this being the first time I read something negative.
?
What impressed me about the Eastwood is that they are at 62-63 db, which is way more ultra quiet than my current compressor. ?I know of no other compressor that quiet other than something like a Kaiser that has the drawbacks as others mentioned when not used big time.
?
For the Eastwood, I would think the 30/60 would be a better choice for me than the 80/120. ?Same db. ?I do not need the extra CFM. ?I would save money and space. ?However, I would only want to cry once. ?So, does anyone have any reason to think the 80/120 would be a better choice as far as reliability? ?
Re: CF 731 Pro Jointer Snipe / Adjustment

 

Hi David,
?
Good to hear from you, and many thanks for the concise approach. I will be very careful not to over-torque those jam nuts and temple bolts. I'm surprised they're not hardened.
?
I will report back when I have the time to devote to this. Might be a few days. Alas, like most hobbyists, work summons me. As the main character in the bleak Italian comedy, "The Working Class Goes to Heaven," says, "work is the curse of the working classes."
?
Greg
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

Thanks for detailed feedback Imran and Aaron, I'll post back when I get the upgrade PTE007 model and report the results.
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Bruce
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

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I will throw this tid-bit here for someone who might be stuck with PP Simple model that faults every time machine is turned off due to braking or another nuisance fault.

image0.jpeg

This should only be used for a nuisance fault. If one is to take advantage of this, it is imperative that one keeps an eye on the fault log to ensure that a serious fault has not occurred.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 10:47?PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?
Bruce,

I forgot to thank you for sharing the error code. That helped me understand the issue with PP Simple model and braking. I still don’t have enough information to know how Enterprise overcomes this other than the line filter which would help minimize the voltage unbalance during braking.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:24?PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?Yes Aaron, braking is done by DC injection in Felder machines. At least what I have seen so far.

3 phase AC to DC conversion exists but it costs more.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:13?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:

?
I think I read somewhere that electronic motor breaking in these machines are done by sending flat-line DC current through the motor windings (as opposed to alternating current).? It would make sense that the brake board uses only single-phase power.? There is likely an AC-to-DC power supply on it which really only works with single phase input.
?
-Aaron

image0.jpeg

Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

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Bruce,

I forgot to thank you for sharing the error code. That helped me understand the issue with PP Simple model and braking. I still don’t have enough information to know how Enterprise overcomes this other than the line filter which would help minimize the voltage unbalance during braking.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:24?PM, Imran Malik <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?Yes Aaron, braking is done by DC injection in Felder machines. At least what I have seen so far.

3 phase AC to DC conversion exists but it costs more.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:13?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:

?
I think I read somewhere that electronic motor breaking in these machines are done by sending flat-line DC current through the motor windings (as opposed to alternating current).? It would make sense that the brake board uses only single-phase power.? There is likely an AC-to-DC power supply on it which really only works with single phase input.
?
-Aaron
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

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Yes Aaron, braking is done by DC injection in Felder machines. At least what I have seen so far.

3 phase AC to DC conversion exists but it costs more.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 8:13?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:

?
I think I read somewhere that electronic motor breaking in these machines are done by sending flat-line DC current through the motor windings (as opposed to alternating current).? It would make sense that the brake board uses only single-phase power.? There is likely an AC-to-DC power supply on it which really only works with single phase input.
?
-Aaron
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

I think I read somewhere that electronic motor breaking in these machines are done by sending flat-line DC current through the motor windings (as opposed to alternating current).? It would make sense that the brake board uses only single-phase power.? There is likely an AC-to-DC power supply on it which really only works with single phase input.
?
-Aaron
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

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Reading Aaron’s response made me check the Felder schematics again. I believe the issue is that the brake board is only given single phase power. I can see a “voltage unbalance error” setting because the current is only being pulled from 2 of the 3 legs once the motor is turned off. In light of above, I agree that braking can cause this issue but I wish PP stop calling it a regenerative braking issue.

?I don’t have enough information to conclude that simple model can’t start a hard to start load. As Bruce is able to start his 5HP compressor. Compressors are hard to start unless they have the easy start feature.

This is what PP states about Simple model:
Based on the same phase conversion technology as its bigger brothers, but designed for home shop, light commercial, and single motor applications where the cost of the Enterprise and original Phase Perfect??are prohibitive.

Bruce is definitely better off with Enterprise model as he stated the compressor will run continuously.

Imran Malik

On Sep 23, 2024, at 5:11?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:

?
I believe the "Simple" models do not have that large capacitor bank that is needed to drive "hard to start" or "braking" machines.? I don't think it's just a matter of an input line filter.? The Simple line is intended for light use and light load types.? I think you'll definitely want to upgrade to the "Enterprise" version if you are intending to use it with an air compressor.? These air compressors are the heavier "hard to start" type of machines.
?
-Aaron
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

Thanks for the responses and advice. I went ahead and ordered the upgrade. The funny thing is the 5hp compressor seems to work fine on the current configuration, it was just the electronic braking of the Felder unit that would trip the fault.
?
Bruce
Re: CF 731 Pro Jointer Snipe / Adjustment

 

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On your YR2000 731, the lever mechanism moves the entire table up/down - it’s not supposed to tilt the table. ?You do not want to screw around with the temple bolts to eliminate snipe. ?And be careful with the jam nut - those bolts are very soft steel and it’s easy to fracture them into two pieces if you start reefing hard on the jam nut - I’ve done it.
??
Once the outfeed table is properly aligned to be coplanar to the infeed table, just lower the outfeed table, and bring it upward. ?Always adjust it in the “going up” mode.

Brian has a good starting suggestion as a starting point for outfeed table height. ?But you may need to make small adjustments with trial/error testing to results on scrap material. I’ll quote from my published writeup:

"In practice, the ideal way to set the outfeed table height is to adjust it so that the material coming off the infeed table does not produce snipe, nor does it get hung up on the leading edge of the outfeed table. There is a range of a few thousandths in table elevation where this condition exists, and adjusting the outfeed table height within that small range can have some tiny impact on flatness of jointed results."

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best





On Sep 23, 2024, at 12:05?PM, Brian Lamb via groups.io <blamb11@...> wrote:

Move the outfeed table up to the point where it is .001" below the cutting diameter of the blades.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
lambtoolworks.com


On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 11:55:52 AM MST, Greg Goldin <goldinarch@...> wrote:


Hi All,
?
My YR 2000 CF 731 suddenly decided to give me snipe on the trailing end of my work piece. This began after I made adjustments to the temple bolts to fix an issue of my work piece hitting the leading edge of the outfeed table. This occurred, as they say, sua sponte. Not sure why, but spent the requisite mountain of hours chasing the issue down. I got my cutter block parallel to the outfeed table within .001", following David Best's technique, using my One Way gauge. After that adjustment, I tightened the table down, and got a perfect, dead-flat cut. Admittedly, the board I was jointing was only 13" long, so that was probably a poor test. But, still, I thought I was done! Then I noticed that the temple bolt closest to the cutter block was wobbly when the table wasn't secured. I realized that the jam nut beneath the machine chassis wasn't cinched. I removed the interior cover plate and found the jam nut, and carefully tightened it. I then lowered the bed, tightened the cam lever, and took another cut. SNIPE at the last 1" or so of the board. Curses. I checked the cutter block. It was still within .001 of parallel. I checked the knife height, using my straight edge. It contacted the knives and moved about 6mm. Way too much.
?
I talked to Felder this morning and their advice was to tinker very gingerly with the temple bolt closest to the cutter block, but I assume this will only drive the outfeed table out of parallel to the cutter block.
?
Should I start the whole process from the beginning and double-check that the cutter block and outfeed are parallel, and then attempt to set the outfeed at the correct height (per David Best .039") relative to the cutter block by using the lever mechanism beneath the outfeed table? Does that lever mechanism raise/lower the entire table in plane along the ways, or does it merely tilt the table relative to the cutter block, to produce convex or concave cuts. The latter is what the original owner's manual says it does and what the Felder tech told me it does, but doesn't seem likely given how the table is secured in the ways.
?
Is there a cure for what ails my jointer?
?
Thanks for the help!
?
Greg
?
?
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

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I agree with Aaron. ?I guess we now have an answer to the advisability of the PP Simple for lower HP Felder setups. ?Don’t go there.

David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best



On Sep 23, 2024, at 2:11?PM, Aaron Inami via groups.io <ainami@...> wrote:

I believe the "Simple" models do not have that large capacitor bank that is needed to drive "hard to start" or "braking" machines.? I don't think it's just a matter of an input line filter.? The Simple line is intended for light use and light load types.? I think you'll definitely want to upgrade to the "Enterprise" version if you are intending to use it with an air compressor.? These air compressors are the heavier "hard to start" type of machines.
?
-Aaron
Re: Phase Perfect Simple

 

I believe the "Simple" models do not have that large capacitor bank that is needed to drive "hard to start" or "braking" machines.? I don't think it's just a matter of an input line filter.? The Simple line is intended for light use and light load types.? I think you'll definitely want to upgrade to the "Enterprise" version if you are intending to use it with an air compressor.? These air compressors are the heavier "hard to start" type of machines.
?
-Aaron
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