Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
My statement presumes that the batteries are actually connected in parallel. A bad connection renders the system unworkable.
Generally the first step in trouble-shooting battery electrical systems is checking the cables at the batteries. It is easy to corrode those cables under the cable jacket, near the terminal connector. It is not always obvious that has happened to the degree that it would interfere, but it sure can happen.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
¡°?It is hard to picture two batteries in parallel with different voltages.¡±
John, you are assuming that the connections that connect them in parallel are well thought out and in good working condition. Oxidation on battery posts can easily render a connection useless or there could be a bad connection elsewhere.
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On Feb 20, 2024, at 5:15?PM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote: ?It is hard to picture two batteries in parallel with different voltages.
How and where are you measuring the voltage? Can you post pictures of the batteries, showing as much of the wiring as is visible?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
It is hard to picture two batteries in parallel with different voltages.
How and where are you measuring the voltage? Can you post pictures of the batteries, showing as much of the wiring as is visible?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
Thanks to all those who have taken the trouble to respond.
I guess the question I would like answering is this: given that 2 x 12v batteries supplying a 12v circuit and only one shows a voltage drop in use, is there a possible explanation for this other than a fault somewhere?
It seems to a non-electrician that there must be, but the links and circuit gizmos are buried beneath the seats and without taking these out, it is impossible to see what is there.
Could it be that some magic goes on here to account for my observations?
The supplier of my vehicle reckons all is well and the batteries are working together.?
How can that be if in use, only one shows a voltage drop?
What am I missing?
Phil
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Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
Phil, you might go the the Victron website- they have very good instructional materials on camper electrical system design and wiring. I just finished building my second camper and made good use of them! My understanding is that (depending on the configuration of the Battery Management System if any) your batteries should be identical in chemistry, capacity and age, or they won¡¯t consistently charge if wired in parallel. Even small differences in cable length between two will mean one discharges much faster than the other, especially at high loads, one may overcharge and one undercharge, and then cables can become overloaded as well. This will wreck them in time. I expect differing internal resistance if the batteries are not identical would be equally problematic. I am guessing from your voltages that you have a version of lead-acid batteries. If you have lithium batteries with individual BMSs you should not have a charging problem but discharging still may not be even. Victron¡¯s wiring guide explains a lot of these details. Also, this guy seems to know EVERYTHING about marine/camper battery setups (he installs and maintains them) and has great how-to articles:
Cheers
--
Daniel Day
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
|
Did someone here get this yesterday?
It was too far and sight unseen for me to go as high.
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Re: Adjusting AD951 jointer fence squareness
Thanks Imran, I did not realize I was missing a bolt!? Though in this case, the lack of bolt might not be affecting the zero position.? And I will check out the other idea of loosening the side bolts, I did not think of that.
Anil
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Got an update, the slider is in manufacturing stage and should arrive to the US in June.
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Re: Adjusting AD951 jointer fence squareness
Hi Anil,
I did not respond as I have a diff model. I had following thoughts based upon dual 51, may not be very useful.
First, are you missing a bolt to set the fence stop.
As for the pin and slot. Can you loosen the bolts holding the side (with slot) and move it a little before retightening to get you the 1/2 deg?
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On Feb 19, 2024, at 4:00?PM, Anil <anil00@...> wrote: ?Just wondering if folks had any ideas about this.? Basically, I can't seem to tweak the last half a degree or so.
Anil
|
Re: Adjusting AD951 jointer fence squareness
Can u grind down the bolt to reach target? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 19, 2024, at 3:00?PM, Anil <anil00@...> wrote:
?Just wondering if folks had any ideas about this.? Basically, I can't seem to tweak the last half a degree or so.
Anil
|
Re: Adjusting AD951 jointer fence squareness
Just wondering if folks had any ideas about this.? Basically, I can't seem to tweak the last half a degree or so.
Anil
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
I¡¯m not able to add much value on the Felder stuff as I¡¯m a beginner, but I have a little experience with Lead-acid to lithium having installed a Voltronix Lithium ion battery kit in a Polaris EV and owning several electric vehicles. I¡¯ve also done some reading. What follows is my understanding and may be helpful for context. ?
Lithium batteries have a much longer lifespan if carefully managed than lead acid. On the Voltronix Polaris kit, there are 16 large 3.3V cells tied in parallel to allow for a 48V high current (up to 600A) source. There is a dedicated BMS (Battery Management System) which has a wire harness which can ?independently monitor all the cells during charging and discharging.
With Lithium ion, overcharging or fully discharging a cell is very damaging, and given the packs are independent batteries tied in series, the state of charge will vary somewhat from battery to battery. So the BMS monitors all and makes decisions about halting charging and discharge based on the most charged/discharged cell respectively. I assume it also has some capability to ¡°rebalance¡± cells by bleeding off charge on a cell or cells to better level out the state of charge across all the cells of the system.?
If you buy a large 12V lithium battery from a company like??then the battery will be composed of cells and include an internal BMS. If you plan to connect multiple of these batteries in series or parallel, then I¡¯d talk to the battery company and ask about the specific application and their charger recommendations, because there are likely implications you may not understand.
I hope this is a) accurate and b) helpful! ?
Michael Branning
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On Feb 19, 2024, at 10:01?AM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Glen, I did not want to assume but I am pretty sure these batteries are in parallel. In ideal situation batteries should be same voltage. Since this is not happening in your case and assuming the batteries are good the wiring could be at fault.
First, are there on/off switches for each battery? If so, make sure that the one for 95Ahr is working.
Have you tried disconnecting 70Ahr battery to see if 95Ahr runs your system? If it does, check the wire that shorts the two batteries together. A bad connection on + or - post can prevent the 95Ahr battery to charge the 75Ahr battery and equalize voltage.
On Feb 19, 2024, at 9:06?AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
? I¡¯ve had pretty good luck with the forum IRV2.com when facing questions about my RVs. I¡¯ve converted three trailers (two bumper-pull and one 5th-wheel) from lead-acid to lithium, and added solar to two of them. IRV2 has been immensely helpful. Of course there are trolls, jerks, and fools on that site, but there are some very helpful people also. This is not to say I¡¯m particularly knowledgeable when it comes to DC electrical systems, but to vouch for the helpfulness of that forum¡¯s members.
I¡¯m a bit surprised that the ¡°leisure batteries¡± (some people call them ¡°house batteries¡± as opposed to the ¡°chassis batteries¡± that run the automotive things) do not match. Whether used in parallel or in series, many people recommend that batteries be identical.?
I¡¯d be curious how your rig is wired, and what kind of batteries you have. There are significant differences between trailers (no engine or charging system) and vans/motor homes/truck campers. I have worked only on trailers, but maybe I can contribute.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
Glen, I did not want to assume but I am pretty sure these batteries are in parallel. In ideal situation batteries should be same voltage. Since this is not happening in your case and assuming the batteries are good the wiring could be at fault.
First, are there on/off switches for each battery? If so, make sure that the one for 95Ahr is working.
Have you tried disconnecting 70Ahr battery to see if 95Ahr runs your system? If it does, check the wire that shorts the two batteries together. A bad connection on + or - post can prevent the 95Ahr battery to charge the 75Ahr battery and equalize voltage.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 19, 2024, at 9:06?AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote: ? I¡¯ve had pretty good luck with the forum IRV2.com when facing questions about my RVs. I¡¯ve converted three trailers (two bumper-pull and one 5th-wheel) from lead-acid to lithium, and added solar to two of them. IRV2 has been immensely helpful. Of course there are trolls, jerks, and fools on that site, but there are some very helpful people also. This is not to say I¡¯m particularly knowledgeable when it comes to DC electrical systems, but to vouch for the helpfulness of that forum¡¯s members.
I¡¯m a bit surprised that the ¡°leisure batteries¡± (some people call them ¡°house batteries¡± as opposed to the ¡°chassis batteries¡± that run the automotive things) do not match. Whether used in parallel or in series, many people recommend that batteries be identical.?
I¡¯d be curious how your rig is wired, and what kind of batteries you have. There are significant differences between trailers (no engine or charging system) and vans/motor homes/truck campers. I have worked only on trailers, but maybe I can contribute.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
I¡¯ve had pretty good luck with the forum IRV2.com when facing questions about my RVs. I¡¯ve converted three trailers (two bumper-pull and one 5th-wheel) from lead-acid to lithium, and added solar to two of them. IRV2 has been immensely helpful. Of course there are trolls, jerks, and fools on that site, but there are some very helpful people also. This is not to say I¡¯m particularly knowledgeable when it comes to DC electrical systems, but to vouch for the helpfulness of that forum¡¯s members.
I¡¯m a bit surprised that the ¡°leisure batteries¡± (some people call them ¡°house batteries¡± as opposed to the ¡°chassis batteries¡± that run the automotive things) do not match. Whether used in parallel or in series, many people recommend that batteries be identical.?
I¡¯d be curious how your rig is wired, and what kind of batteries you have. There are significant differences between trailers (no engine or charging system) and vans/motor homes/truck campers. I have worked only on trailers, but maybe I can contribute.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
Hi Glen,
It has been a while, to hear from you. The key question is, are these used in parallel?
Like two, 12v batteries used in parallel in a 12V system or two 12V batteries used in series in a 24V system.
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On Feb 19, 2024, at 7:09?AM, glenhyrst <phil_moger@...> wrote: ?I purchased a small campervan 4 months ago and have concerns about the leisure batteries which have been back to the supplier 3 times already and return to me in the same state despite on the most recent occasion, an 80amp fuse was found to be blown and was replaced.
Enquiries on sites campervan orientated have not produced particularly helpful replies and in common with so many sites, by the fifth reply have drifted totally off topic!
Here's what troubles me.? My Wesfalia van comes with x 2 leisure batteries - 1 x 70Ah and 1 x 95Ah.
When I use the habitation 12v electrics, only the former drops its voltage.? The latter seems just along for the ride.
My understanding and expectation was that each would fall in unison or approximately so, if wired in parallel.
I have so far dropped the voltage from 12.5v to 11.4v with no change in the 95Ah battery.
It seems to me that either there is a wiring fault or some devious battery management system that seeks to wreck one battery before engaging the second one.? But why would it do that?
I'm hoping that one or more of the impressively intelligent folks on this site can shed light on the matter.
Thanks
Phil
|
Re: Totally off topic - batteries question
You should try to get in touch with Sandra Johnson sstraveler-Sandy on YouTube. She has changed the world of LTV owners switching to batteries vs plugging in. She has taught several Rv companies and CTM customs how to wire the batteries. Of course lithium has been the move from AGM batteries.
Philip Davidson
--
Philip
davidsonukuleles.com
|
Totally off topic - batteries question
I purchased a small campervan 4 months ago and have concerns about the leisure batteries which have been back to the supplier 3 times already and return to me in the same state despite on the most recent occasion, an 80amp fuse was found to be blown and was replaced.
Enquiries on sites campervan orientated have not produced particularly helpful replies and in common with so many sites, by the fifth reply have drifted totally off topic!
Here's what troubles me.? My Wesfalia van comes with x 2 leisure batteries - 1 x 70Ah and 1 x 95Ah.
When I use the habitation 12v electrics, only the former drops its voltage.? The latter seems just along for the ride.
My understanding and expectation was that each would fall in unison or approximately so, if wired in parallel.
I have so far dropped the voltage from 12.5v to 11.4v with no change in the 95Ah battery.
It seems to me that either there is a wiring fault or some devious battery management system that seeks to wreck one battery before engaging the second one.? But why would it do that?
I'm hoping that one or more of the impressively intelligent folks on this site can shed light on the matter.
Thanks
Phil
|
Re: Retro spiral cutter head?
?If i was buying a Hammer or 700 series I'd look at spiral.? A Format or Martin, I'd go Tersa.
Spiral? ¡Ö?Pantorouter Tersa ?¡Ö?Multirouter?
?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
|
Re: Retro spiral cutter head?
I'd only add that Tersa ( my favorite also ) is generally found on a higher end machine and benefits from a chipbreaker, pressure bar, and good hold downs similar to what is needed for a good straight knife machine.? A spiral is better on a lower end machine
as the head compensates for the lack of those items.? The chips are an issue as the Tersa needs better dust collection but the power needed for a spiral depends somewhat on it's design and the number of inserts.? Most high end planers are three phase and 7.5
hp so kind of irrelevant.? If i was buying a Hammer or 700 series I'd look at spiral.? A Format or Martin, I'd go Tersa.
Dave
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Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed ¡°debate¡± is
more often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I¡¯m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any ¡°problems¡± are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: ¡°loud¡±
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding ¨C I don¡¯t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don¡¯t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I¡¯m probably missing some things here? I think what I¡¯m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers,
the Tersa knife system holds up very well. I¡¯ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
?
But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don¡¯t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I¡¯m missing out on. So be it.
?
I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
?
?
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Retro spiral cutter head?
Hi Lucky,
I have not used a spiral head but manufacturers claim that it requires less power. I assume it is due to the fact that the straight knife cuts the entire width at the same time but on spiral head, depending upon the geometry, very few carbide cutters are engaged at any given time.
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On Feb 18, 2024, at 6:45?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote: ?
Hi Imran:
?
Nice! I forgot to mention the chip load/size which is definitely ¡°nice and fluffy¡± for the Tersa (which is not an advantage). I don¡¯t know about the max depth of cut. I can¡¯t imagine the knife geometry would
be an issue ¨C rather the specific machine specs and particularly the HP? But that reminds me that I read somewhere that the spiral head designs require less HP when compared to straight knife systems like the Tersa? Cheers.
?
?
Hi Lucky,
Thank you for taking the time to provide an excellent summary. I only have 2 things to add.
Spiral/Helical/Xylent produce small chips that pack well and result in less frequent chip removal from the dust collector. Tersa on the other hand produces nice fluffy chips that fill up the bin rather quickly.
I am not certain that this applies to all of the spiral category but on some machines the max depth of cut may be limited. I read that in a review from a business; even 1 extra pass doubles their labor and
time to finish the job.
?
Happy Tersa user Imran Malik
On Feb 18, 2024, at 6:10?PM, David Luckensmeyer <dhluckens@...> wrote:
?
Hi FOG:
?
The elephant in the room in the debate between spiral/helical/silent-power versus Tersa is that most people do not appear to be very familiar with the Tersa system. Consequently, the supposed ¡°debate¡± is more
often between spiral versus traditional straight knife systems (not Tersa). This secondary debate generally ends strongly in favour of spiral, and with good reason:
?
- Spiral blades are self-aligning provided the cutter block is clean
- The carbide inserts are long lasting
- The cutterblock is exceptionally quiet, and
- The geometry works very well for most timbers, including the cantankerous varieties.
?
But to address the elephant:
?
Change-over speed
Tersa: 1-2 minutes (I¡¯m not exaggerating here)
Silent Power: 1 hour or more depending on if any ¡°problems¡± are encountered
?
Knife concentricity and seating
Tersa: automatic
Silent Power: dependent on appropriate cleaning and installation processes
?
Potential installation issues
Tersa: none, over 17 years of my commercial use on a Tersa-knife-equipped Dual 51
Silent Power: I hear about screws shearing off, and insert cleaning and seating concerns
?
Relative quietness
Tersa: ¡°loud¡±
Silent Power: It is easy to concede that the silent power system is demonstrably quieter
?
Quality of cut
Tersa: outstanding; the large cutterblock and new knives makes for a very nice finish
Silent Power: outstanding ¨C I don¡¯t know if it provides better results for reversing or cantankerous timbers
?
Dealing with nicked blades
Tersa: shift a blade one way or another by 1mm; this process literally takes maybe 20 seconds
Silent Power: rotate insert, including removal, cleaning, and reseating (presumably takes longer but doable)
?
Versatility of knife selection
Tersa: it is so easy to have multiple sets on the go for different applications
Silent Power: Inserts are carbide with the pros and cons that come with that material
?
Cost
I don¡¯t actually know which one is more expensive to run in the long term. We could easily put up knife replacement figures, but we would need to know how many surface metres or surface feet are being processed
for each dollar spent.
?
I¡¯m probably missing some things here? I think what I¡¯m trying to say is that other than loudness in use, and the possibility that the silent power system offers a better finish in cantankerous timbers, the
Tersa knife system holds up very well. I¡¯ve used silent-power-equipped Felders and spiral-equipped Martins. They are very nice.
?
But I would buy Tersa again in preference to any of the insert systems. Tersa is more versatile, seats automatically and more reliably, and I don¡¯t have to deal with the insert changeover process. The noise
factor is the only feature I care about that I¡¯m missing out on. So be it.
?
I hope this is helpful for future customers wondering which knife system is most suitable for them.
?
?
Hi Phil,?
?Alex covered most of the advantages. Other advantages include the ability to swap out different alloy blades with different cutting geometries for different wood species. For instance, the Chrome and High Speed Steel knives have a 40 degree angle and are recommended
for softwoods, whereas the M+ and Carbide knives have a 55 degree angle and are recommended for hardwoods and exotics. There are additional blades with different coatings and/or alloys.?
?In terms of noise, the Tersa head is supposed to be less noisy than traditional straight knife cutter blocks due to the 2mm projection of the knives, but not quite as quiet as segmented cutter blocks.
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
imran
DanielD
David P. Best