Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Tom ,? I assume you have the mortising devise to make dowel drilling reasonable?
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 17, 2024, at 2:03?PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thanks Tom. This is good to know. Terminology was the hindrance. I was thinking of small blocks with which the x direction is controlled instead of this block that goes on top of the table. ? Imran ? ? Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:?
?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?
<image001.jpg> ... And the first row of holes in the rail:? <image002.jpg> For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:? <image003.jpg> <image004.jpg> After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:? <image005.jpg> Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Thanks Tom. This is good to know. Terminology was the hindrance. I was thinking of small blocks with which the x direction is controlled instead of this block that goes on top of the table. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Tom Gensmer Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2024 2:09 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Mortising unit v Pantorouter ? Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:?
?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?
... And the first row of holes in the rail:?
For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:?
After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:?
Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Here are some photos of the FD-250 in use as a dowel boring machine:? ?Drill the first row of holes in the stile:?  ... And the first row of holes in the rail:?  For the second row of holes, move the cast iron block to the other side of the table, and flip the boards:?   After drilling the holes, mill the boards, then assemble:?  Hopefully the above info/photos helps to demonstrate the setup -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
FYI Felder accessories mortiser attachment.
I built 5 of these side tables / book shelf¡¯s / plant shelfs with a bf631 2 meter with mortiser attachment back in 90¡¯s . Had 5 pieces of salvaged 1/2¡± plate and some local red oak I cut around the bug damage and used it up! Used clico mortise bits. Not available ?anymore. Cut walnut wedges with 20 mm leitz fingers joint. Some where I have pictures of a stand alone mortiser I built for a chair maker in Iowa city. Mac,,,
  
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:25?PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Brian,
Thanks for confirming this. It really is for the knowledge of the forum. It was several yrs ago, IIRC, the poster mentioned that it was a serious issue with smaller bits as they are not long.
On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:12?PM, Brian <brian.milidrag@...> wrote:
? Imran,
Nowhere near 6 inches and change at least with the Felder bits. Probably closer to 3¡±¡I can check travel tomorrow and give you an exact number Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Nathan,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?I have a slot mortiser ?on a C3 31. ?I debated at the time between this and a Festool Domino. For me, I bought the wrong machine.
Eventually I bought the Festool anyway, and have never used the mortiser since. It's fine at what it is designed to do, but I find that the domino machine is much more versatile and takes seconds to set up, rather that minutes with the mortiser.
Get yourself the best set of cutters that you can, as it makes a world of difference both in time and finish.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland?
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Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Brian,
Thanks for confirming this. It really is for the knowledge of the forum. It was several yrs ago, IIRC, the poster mentioned that it was a serious issue with smaller bits as they are not long.
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:12?PM, Brian <brian.milidrag@...> wrote: ? Imran,
Nowhere near 6 inches and change at least with the Felder bits. Probably closer to 3¡±¡I can check travel tomorrow and give you an exact number Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Imran,
Nowhere near 6 inches and change at least with the Felder bits. Probably closer to 3¡±¡I can check travel tomorrow and give you an exact number Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Jonathan,
I find the cart to be very top heavy and would have gotten the FD250 had I known what I know today. Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
It s true that the Felder ¡°bolt on¡± mortiser has serious depth limitations.? Kind regards,Brian D. Milidrag
Hi Tim,
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
Thanks again for the comparison. On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer < tom@...> wrote: ?Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Tom, Thanks for the update. I don¡¯t quite follow your trick, maybe when you do it next you can share a pic. Here is my trick to get repeatable mortice lengths. If the stock is large, with multiple lengths of mortices, I rather finish each piece verses rotate stock on the machine for each specific mortice length. Just cut the needed length of this pipe to reduce the horizontal travel. I had to glue two pieces to get the height to hit the center bolt squarely. I set the horizontal stop for the longest mortice and then inserted these pieces (on the inside of the stops) to get shorter mortices. Worked really well. Imran From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Tom Gensmer Sent: Friday, February 16, 2024 6:46 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Mortising unit v Pantorouter Hi Imran, Yes, I forgot to mention the stop system available for the FD-250, which allows for repeat drilling/mortising operations where the material extends beyond the table surface. A neat trick I discovered on my FD-250 involves using the dowel boring jig, in conjunction with the little cast iron indexing block. I found that, with a little tweaking, the 16mm drilling template indexes perfectly with the left- and right- positions for the little cast iron indexing block. This is really handy for dowel boring for doors/windows. Admittedly, the FD-250 is a niche product, but I'm getting a lot of use out of it, not quite daily but definitely several times per week. -- Tom Gensmer Heritage Home Renewals, LLC Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Imran,?
?Yes, I forgot to mention the stop system available for the FD-250, which allows for repeat drilling/mortising operations where the material extends beyond the table surface.?
?A neat trick I discovered on my FD-250 involves using the dowel boring jig, in conjunction with the little cast iron indexing block. I found that, with a little tweaking, the 16mm drilling template indexes perfectly with the left- and right- positions for the little cast iron indexing block. This is really handy for dowel boring for doors/windows.?
?Admittedly, the FD-250 is a niche product, but I'm getting a lot of use out of it, not quite daily but definitely several times per week.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Hey.? Are you able to ship?? ?if so please?call me at 678-794-7308
Alan
[Edited Message Follows]
Updated price, for sale is a Felder K700 P, purchased last year not used yet unfortunately planned project fell through. The machine is single phase 4hp motor and 1hp scoring motor, with 6ft slider and 31in table, overhead dust collection, outrigger and outrigger dolly also included. Remote stop and start, with powerdrive with height and angle blade adjustment. Asking 10000.00 or OBO located in Houston Texas. If you have any questions please feel free to reach out at 713.732.9554, call or text.
-- Alan Jones Owner, HiFi Buys
Our highest goal at HiFi Buys is to create a customer experience that is outstanding; so outstanding, in fact, that you want to tell others. Our customers are our best ambassadors and your reviews are vitally important to our growth and longevity. So if you are so inclined, we¡¯d love if you could tell your friends, write a review and post your story on social media so others can enjoy the same great experience that you have. Thank you!
???
|
Re: You get what you pay for. Cheap digital fence readout.
Fiama makes a small aluminum extrusion that can hold the banding and be surface mounted. If your cat table isn¡¯t consistent enough, you could shim the extrusion as necessary and create a channel that runs parallel to the sliding portion of the fence.?
In the same vein, lots of LED lighting has aluminum extrusions and I bet it¡¯s the same 10mm wide channel¡. Look on Amazon.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 10:31?AM, John Hinman <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
Mike, thanks for the info. I have an SCM S540P, which does not have a scale strip. I think I can stick the magnetic band to the table, and mount the display to the bandsaw frame. The read head can probably tuck under the fence. That will leave the cable exposed, but it seems it will probably be out of the way.
First thing is to check the distance between the table and the bar the fence runs on. If it varies too much the clearance between the read had and magnetic strip will get out of tolerance. That was an issue with my K700S.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: You get what you pay for. Cheap digital fence readout.
Mike, thanks for the info. I have an SCM S540P, which does not have a scale strip. I think I can stick the magnetic band to the table, and mount the display to the bandsaw frame. The read head can probably tuck under the fence. That will leave the cable exposed, but it seems it will probably be out of the way.
First thing is to check the distance between the table and the bar the fence runs on. If it varies too much the clearance between the read had and magnetic strip will get out of tolerance. That was an issue with my K700S.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: You get what you pay for. Cheap digital fence readout.
The stainless steel banding is just a protective cover, it¡¯s really not necessary to be there, but it makes it easier to wipe off the banding.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:30?AM, Mike <mike@...> wrote:
You fixed it! I'm not sure why I didn't see the sensor was oriented incorrectly. Thanks for the extra eyes.?
One remaining question: What is the stainless-steel banding used for? Does it go on top of the magnetic strip to protect it?
John, I mounted this on a Minimax MM20. I simply mortised the wood box and tapped for two screws in the fence to hold it. The magnetic strip replaced the rule recessed in the bar. I had to make it deep to accommodate the long sensor cable. I had a job hand-soldering complicated circuit once , but shortening the cable looked beyond my expertise. I'd send pictures, but it would take too long to explain the mistakes.
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Re: You get what you pay for. Cheap digital fence readout.
You fixed it! I'm not sure why I didn't see the sensor was oriented incorrectly. Thanks for the extra eyes.?
One remaining question: What is the stainless-steel banding used for? Does it go on top of the magnetic strip to protect it?
John, I mounted this on a Minimax MM20. I simply mortised the wood box and tapped for two screws in the fence to hold it. The magnetic strip replaced the rule recessed in the bar. I had to make it deep to accommodate the long sensor cable. I had a job hand-soldering complicated circuit once , but shortening the cable looked beyond my expertise. I'd send pictures, but it would take too long to explain the mistakes.
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Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Jonathan,
Can you comment on the depth of bore possible with mortiser? Someone mentioned, that depth achieved with the same bit length is ¡°significantly¡± less than the same bit on other mortisers.?
Following from Felder site. I assume this would be less for smaller dia, shorter bits:
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On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:55?AM, Jonathan Smith <jonathan.smith@...> wrote: ?I have a CF741 combo and a mortiser on a cart so it can be detached and stored in a corner when not needed.? It works well; solid, repeatable, accurate. Dust collection is marginal.? Expect a shallow learning curve depending on the bit you use and how to hog out and then finish to size. I use routers for cutting to patterns. I have an extra, new in a box, rolling carriage that I would give away to a good home. <dummyfile.0.part> <dummyfile.1.part>
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Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
I have a CF741 combo and a mortiser on a cart so it can be detached and stored in a corner when not needed.? It works well; solid, repeatable, accurate. Dust collection is marginal.? Expect a shallow learning curve depending on the bit you use and how to hog out and then finish to size. I use routers for cutting to patterns. I have an extra, new in a box, rolling carriage that I would give away to a good home.  
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Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Hi Tom,
?
Whhhaaattttt! an email with multirouter and pantorouter without any mud slinging, it is indeed ?refreshing ?
?
A very good way to skin this cat as they all have their usefulness. I have read here that the bolt-on mortiser has significant bore depth limitation. Not sure if it was an operator issue or if it is indeed true. I would definitely confirm if I was buying one.
?
I may have missed if you mentioned that FD250 has stops for repeatable boring/mortising. I believe they can extend to 8¡¯ on one side or ?less if needed on both sides.
?
Who about ease of work holding? Are there differences here?
?
Thanks again for the comparison.
On Feb 16, 2024, at 9:07?AM, Tom Gensmer <tom@...> wrote:
Hi Nathan,?
?It really depends on what kind of work you're performing. I'd separate the free-standing mortising units from the bolt-on mortising units, since the free-standing mortising units have a fixed table which a movable spindle, whereas on the bolt-on units the spindle is fixed and the table moves.?
?One way to think/visualize the machines that might be helpful are the following:?
?RPM:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: Relatively low RPM, ~3,000
?-- Multirouter, Pantorouter: Relatively high RPM, ~15k-25k
?What moves, what is fixed?
?-- FD-250, Pantorouter: Fixed table, movable spindle
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router: Fixed spindle, movable table
?Support:
?-- FD-250: Fixed, cast-iron table with F-channels to facilitate use of Felder table extensions
?-- Bolt-on mortiser, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No native support for table extensions, though you could conceivably use roller stands or other independent work supports
?"Programability":
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mosritser: Adjustable stops for X and Y travel, Z travel controlled via hand wheel
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Adjustable stops for X, Y, and Z travel, all controlled independently with levers
?Templates:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-on Mortiser: No Templates for joinery
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Templates available for joinery
?Line drilling:?
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On mortiser for Felder machines: Template bars available for precise hole drilling
?-- Bolt-On mortiser for Hammer, Multi-Router, Pantorouter: No line boring templates
?Clamping capacity:
?-- FD-250, Bolt-On Mortiser: Chuck with clamping capacity up to 20mm
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: Limited to your collet capacity, usually 1/4", 8mm, and 1/2"
?Rotation:
?-- FD-250: Forward/Reverse
?-- Bolt-On Mortiser: "Left Hand" rotation
?-- Multi-Router, Pantorouter: "Right Hand" rotation
? Other Features:?
?-- FD-250: Available with a hollow chisel mortising function
?Ultimately, I believe that the consensus is that the FD-250 and the Bolt-on Mortiser have the edge in terms of running larger/longer tooling, whereas the Multi-Router and Pantorouter have the advantage in terms of joinery tasks.?
?Circling back to "it depends on what you're doing", I'd suggest that if you're mostly building doors/windows, I'd recommend the FD-250 or Bolt-on Mortising unit, whereas if you're building furniture or chairs, you may be better served with the Multi-Router or Pantorouter.?
?For myself, I opted for the FD-250 with the two speed, reversible three phase motor, with the hollow chisel mortising package, as well as the line boring/doweling package. I build a lot of doors and windows, and I really appreciate the ability to expand the table surface with table extensions to support a fully assembled door for mortising/drilling for the handle set.?
?In terms of shop space, now that I've been using my FD-250 for awhile I'm finding I haven't used my drill press since the mortiser arrived, so I'm looking to sell the drill press.?
?I'm sure I've missed something above, but hopefully the above gives you some ideas in terms of identifying what your needs are, which in turn would drive your machine selection.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Mortising unit v Pantorouter
Tom,
Very good analysis; thanks for sharing your experience and perspective.
Regards,
Jacques
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imran
Tom Gensmer
Brian
Mike
Jonathan Smith