Re: Saw controls on slider
It shows .5 amp fuses in the control circuits…. But before I’d trust a piece of paper, I’d put the meter on the wires and definitely know for sure what the voltage is.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 10:46 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
Sorry, I added my edit (about contactor coil specs) to the earlier post before I saw your response.
I have just been to the workshop with the aim of making a measurement to put this discussion to bed. When I removed the cover to the electrical box I found the attached wiring diagram and, although it's very slightly different to the one in the manual, you can see that there is no transformer for the controls. Physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo and that the contactors are the same type listed on the parts list - with 220V coils.
I didn't mean to be argumentative about this but just wanted to prevent someone from assuming that a phone cable would be safe, when it may not be. In this case it would have been rather unsafe.
BTW, I'd intended to fix the auxiliary controls on the side of the slider but I like the idea of hooking them on, as shown in your photo.
Dave (in the UK)
<Specific wiring diagram.pdf>
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Re: Saw controls on slider
Sorry, I added my edit (about contactor coil specs) to the earlier post before I saw your response.
I have just been to the workshop with the aim of making a measurement to put this discussion to bed. When I removed the cover to the electrical box I found the attached wiring diagram and, although it's very slightly different to the one in the manual, you can see that there is no transformer for the controls. Physical inspection shows that there isn't a traffo and that the contactors are the same type listed on the parts list - with 220V coils.
I didn't mean to be argumentative about this but just wanted to prevent someone from assuming that a phone cable would be safe, when it may not be. In this case it would have been rather unsafe.
BTW, I'd intended to fix the auxiliary controls on the side of the slider but I like the idea of hooking them on, as shown in your photo.
Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Saw controls on slider
I agree with Brian. ?Having those control circuits at 220V would be a violation of European safety standards. ?Put a volt meter on it.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 8:45 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
I don’t think any machinery has had high voltage to the control circuits in the last 50 years, so I highly doubt you have 220V to the buttons.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:37 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Saw controls on slider
Voltmeter on the wires would be the true answer….
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:37 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Edited to add ... that I found the spec of the contactor shown on the parts listing: the coil voltage is 220V so I guess that's pretty conclusive Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Saw controls on slider
I don’t think any machinery has had high voltage to the control circuits in the last 50 years, so I highly doubt you have 220V to the buttons.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:37 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Saw controls on slider
On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 03:40 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage
Hmm, I've just gone back to look at the diagram and it shows a "control transformer" as being an option. I agree that 24V controls are pretty standard nowadays but this looks more like an isolating traffo (220V -220V/63VA) than one for LV so maybe Felder switched to LV controls on later models. When I find the right tuit to make the changes I'll check the voltage and report back.? Edited to add ... that I found the spec of the contactor shown on the parts listing: the coil voltage is 220V so I guess that's pretty conclusive Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Cast iron table flatness issue
#k700s
That is unusual.? Nothing is hung from the table so it must have been screwed up forever.? Dave
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You would be surprised. I have an Oliver 232 that came out of a college's shop a few years ago, and the table is FAR from flat. I havent taken feeler gauges to it, but we arent?talking thousandths of an inch, it's visibly tenths of an inch. Still,
its a good little rip/dado saw for me. It has a very tight footprint, fence is rock solid, and it looks nice in the shop.?
Patrick
I bet this old boy's trunnions don't sag.
?
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Re: Saw controls on slider
The start/stop and limit switch circuits are low voltage, 24V is what mine is.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 3:51 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 12:11 PM, Jonathan Martens wrote:
I would opt for a phone cable with rj10/11 connectors, cheap, easy to replace and relatively robust AFAICT
That's not a terribly good idea for 240V. Maybe some of the machines have LV switchgear but AFAICS the BF6 does not. Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Cast iron table flatness issue
#k700s
You would be surprised. I have an Oliver 232 that came out of a college's shop a few years ago, and the table is FAR from flat. I havent taken feeler gauges to it, but we arent?talking thousandths of an inch, it's visibly tenths of an inch. Still, its a good little rip/dado saw for me. It has a very tight footprint, fence is rock solid, and it looks nice in the shop.?
Patrick
I bet this old boy's trunnions don't sag. ? 
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Re: Cast iron table flatness issue
#k700s
Actually the Oliver 260 did have something similar to trunnion issues.? the rotating dual blade mechanism was prone to warpage if the blades were rotated when they were tilted.? Something to watch for when buying an otherwise handy machine.? the Oliver sliding
table design was also not their best idea.? There can be some lateral play although the table is so heavy it tends to stay straight through the cut unless really heavy.? Dave
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I bet this old boy's trunnions don't sag.
?
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Re: Cast iron table flatness issue
#k700s
I bet this old boy's trunnions don't sag. ? 
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Horacio,
That’s terrible to hear even after Felder tech was there. ?That’s BS in my book! ?For what they charge, that machine should be dialed in! ?
Wade
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 6:36 AM, H <horacio.nochetto@...> wrote:
? Again, I must say I have been given fantastic advice.?
I tried last night to do the rip operations suggested here, but it is clear that my machine either got out of calc with very little use or moving it around (a couple of inches), or was not in the necessary tolerance for this type of work after the Felder technicians did their work. I have a feeling its a bit of both, but more of the latter. I think I have a day or two (or three) of adjustments?ahead of me, especially recognizing that this is a Hammer machine with less adjustments than its more expensive siblings. I will follow David Best's tutorial?as it seems the most straightforward and clear explanation I have found.?
Thanks again Horacio So individual based on space followed by money with everything based on what you do. I also sold my Unisaw when I purchased a slider.? If I had unlimited space and money, I would have kept it for dados.? If I had unlimited space and had to pick between also having a cabinet saw or Mac Clamps, I would go with the Mac Clamps. ?
I seem to be in the minority, ?but I think a bandsaw with feeder is way better for ripping lumber than the table saw. ?
just my 0.02
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Bird Cupps,
Try using bridge clamping techniques. ?
Wade
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 6:49 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
? As a novice slider user, I can pipe up and say that I’m still looking for good ways to rip small pieces. I’m talking long rips which I seem to make often. Yesterday I ripped some 3/4’’ strips of plywood out of a 8’ long piece that was too narrow to be clamped to the slider. I did this as I would have on an American style saw, using the rip fence. I am still trying to make jigs to attach to the slider for such operations—I have found it a slow process to switch over but that’s largely because I’m always trying to just get things done and haven’t spent enough time focusing on setting up the saw.?
I will be interested in what you come up with Horacio.
Bird Cupps Mount Horeb, WI
Again, I must say I have been given fantastic advice.?
I tried last night to do the rip operations suggested here, but it is clear that my machine either got out of calc with very little use or moving it around (a couple of inches), or was not in the necessary tolerance for this type of work after the Felder technicians did their work. I have a feeling its a bit of both, but more of the latter. I think I have a day or two (or three) of adjustments?ahead of me, especially recognizing that this is a Hammer machine with less adjustments than its more expensive siblings. I will follow David Best's tutorial?as it seems the most straightforward and clear explanation I have found.?
Thanks again Horacio So individual based on space followed by money with everything based on what you do. I also sold my Unisaw when I purchased a slider.? If I had unlimited space and money, I would have kept it for dados.? If I had unlimited space and had to pick between also having a cabinet saw or Mac Clamps, I would go with the Mac Clamps. ?
I seem to be in the minority, ?but I think a bandsaw with feeder is way better for ripping lumber than the table saw. ?
just my 0.02
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
As a novice slider user, I can pipe up and say that I’m still looking for good ways to rip small pieces. I’m talking long rips which I seem to make often. Yesterday I ripped some 3/4’’ strips of plywood out of a 8’ long piece that was too narrow to be clamped to the slider. I did this as I would have on an American style saw, using the rip fence. I am still trying to make jigs to attach to the slider for such operations—I have found it a slow process to switch over but that’s largely because I’m always trying to just get things done and haven’t spent enough time focusing on setting up the saw.?
I will be interested in what you come up with Horacio.
Bird Cupps
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Again, I must say I have been given fantastic advice.?
I tried last night to do the rip operations suggested here, but it is clear that my machine either got out of calc with very little use or moving it around (a couple of inches), or was not in the necessary tolerance for this type of work after the Felder technicians did their work. I have a feeling its a bit of both, but more of the latter. I think I have a day or two (or three) of adjustments?ahead of me, especially recognizing that this is a Hammer machine with less adjustments than its more expensive siblings. I will follow David Best's tutorial?as it seems the most straightforward and clear explanation I have found.?
Thanks again Horacio So individual based on space followed by money with everything based on what you do. I also sold my Unisaw when I purchased a slider.? If I had unlimited space and money, I would have kept it for dados.? If I had unlimited space and had to pick between also having a cabinet saw or Mac Clamps, I would go with the Mac Clamps. ?
I seem to be in the minority, ?but I think a bandsaw with feeder is way better for ripping lumber than the table saw. ?
just my 0.02
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Again, I must say I have been given fantastic advice.?
I tried last night to do the rip operations suggested here, but it is clear that my machine either got out of calc with very little use or moving it around (a couple of inches), or was not in the necessary tolerance for this type of work after the Felder technicians did their work. I have a feeling its a bit of both, but more of the latter. I think I have a day or two (or three) of adjustments?ahead of me, especially recognizing that this is a Hammer machine with less adjustments than its more expensive siblings. I will follow David Best's tutorial?as it seems the most straightforward and clear explanation I have found.?
Thanks again Horacio
So individual based on space followed by money with everything based on what you do. I also sold my Unisaw when I purchased a slider.? If I had unlimited space and money, I would have kept it for dados.? If I had unlimited space and had to pick between also having a cabinet saw or Mac Clamps, I would go with the Mac Clamps. ?
I seem to be in the minority, ?but I think a bandsaw with feeder is way better for ripping lumber than the table saw. ?
just my 0.02
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I guessed that adding a slider to a bandsaw was too obvious to be a new idea. Thanks for sharing information on this topic.?
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Interesting ,,, no rubbers on wheels? Nice wheel cleaner. They look like handy saw if one has the space. Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:58 AM, Albert Lee <timbershelf@...> wrote:
?Made by Italian company ACM, rebadged Felder, just like Felder's X40 series bandsaw.?
https://www.acmitaly.it/en/summa-740-2-p8
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Re: Saw controls on slider
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Mar 8, 2023, at 4:56 AM, aero_qfi <davesawdon@...> wrote:
?On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 04:26 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
a phone could cord would probably work just as well
It would be OK (OTT, even) from the current standpoint but I would be concerned about the insulation resistance for use with 240V ... better to use a cable that has an appropriate spec and avoid unpleasant surprises resulting from saving a few pounds/dollars/whatevers. Dave (in the UK)
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Re: Saw controls on slider
On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 04:26 PM, Brian Lamb wrote:
a phone could cord would probably work just as well
It would be OK (OTT, even) from the current standpoint but I would be concerned about the insulation resistance for use with 240V ... better to use a cable that has an appropriate spec and avoid unpleasant surprises resulting from saving a few pounds/dollars/whatevers. Dave (in the UK)
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David P. Best
Jonathan Smith
Mike