Hi Shawn
The San Diego Fine Woodworking Association has a woodworking shop for exclusive use by its members.? One of the table saws is a Sawstop with the slider, so I've used it (or tried to) for years.? I can say that even though the member shop enjoys the services of a professional who keeps the equipment well-calibrated and running smoothly (and he does an excellent job), the SS slider was never a commonly usable piece of gear.?
I would sometimes get in right after he had spent yet another hour fiddling with it, and he'd tell me, "Well, you'll get a good cut for the first 5 or 10 cuts, but then she'll start to slip, and after that you're on your own, and all bets are off it you're not gentle with it or accidentally bump it".? If you were not the first user immediately after one of his efforts, you had zero chance of getting precision or accuracy from the slider.
I was also lucky enough to attend Palomar College's School of Cabinet and Furniture Making, and they have a pile of Saw Stops.? Only one is set up to accept the slider, and in my 2 years there, they only fully set up the slider once, and that was just to demonstrate to someone that the slider could not be used to produce quality results.? The school also employs a team of professionals to maintain its millions of dollars in woodworking equipment. That slider did have a rough life -- hundreds of students, many of whom were experiencing their first table saw, used it, so perhaps it's excusable, but it's another data point for you to consider.
I should add that in both these cases, the Sawstop saws themselves were universally regarded as excellent saws, entirely reliable and capable of working hard, working often and producing excellent results.? Before I bought my Hammer, a SS was the only other choice.? Was was never an option for me was buying the slider.
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Brian,
I definitely do not want to bring a dial indicator out every time I need to set to 45. Yes, my statement was not the best but I had mentioned earlier that I want something quick and to me referencing blade and fence is the quickest method. I did not mean to imply that it is the only method.
Imran
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On Feb 13, 2022, at 10:20 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote: ? Your statement makes no sense. You use the square to set the angle of the fence, using a dial indicator on a stand to indicate the one edge. The blade has nothing to do with it. Once the fence is at 45? accurately, you can cut anything you want.
Brian,
I like my square from you very much but as I mentioned in our private conversation, using pins to get additional angles is great but it is not conducive to angle setting where one really wants to go between blade and fence.
It was not planned but my neighbor showed up and wanted to make another rustic table. My short 45 worked this time just fine.
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg>
So maybe, something happened in a cut on the frame I made couple of days ago. For above I moved the long fence to opposing 45s and it still came out fine.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 7:28 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? You have an older version that doesn¡¯t have the 45? holes.
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it¡¯s long side is 6¡± and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4¡± along the blade. I have Brian¡¯s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12¡± for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian¡¯s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45¡ã pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45¡ã the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Unless I am missing something Imran you have the same set up as Jason ,, outrigger on the lead edge? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:29 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Mark, That is what I am leaning towards. I would not buy a large square unless it came with accuracy spec and if it did I probably won¡¯t be able to afford it. So I am going to order 1/4¡± uhmw/polyethylene 1¡¯x3¡¯. Once by trial and error I have 45, I will cut a 45 deg square. uhmw in that size is under $30.
Imran
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:20 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Imran, is your angle scale not calibrated? Like i said I get good enough results with the scale but was thinking that it would be easy enough to set your fence by trial/error once you are happy with it make a gauge block out of wood that you could put between something (like the framework of the out rigger) and the fence to set it., it¡¯s a bit agricultural but would work¡ On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:14 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? I have what you shared and that is what I used however it¡¯s long side is 6¡± and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4¡± along the blade. I have Brian¡¯s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12¡± for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:04 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian¡¯s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45¡ã pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45¡ã the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Your statement makes no sense. You use the square to set the angle of the fence, using a dial indicator on a stand to indicate the one edge. The blade has nothing to do with it. Once the fence is at 45? accurately, you can cut anything you want.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Brian,
I like my square from you very much but as I mentioned in our private conversation, using pins to get additional angles is great but it is not conducive to angle setting where one really wants to go between blade and fence.
It was not planned but my neighbor showed up and wanted to make another rustic table. My short 45 worked this time just fine.
<image0.jpeg><image1.jpeg>
So maybe, something happened in a cut on the frame I made couple of days ago. For above I moved the long fence to opposing 45s and it still came out fine.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 7:28 PM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: ? You have an older version that doesn¡¯t have the 45? holes.
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it¡¯s long side is 6¡± and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4¡± along the blade. I have Brian¡¯s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12¡± for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian¡¯s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45¡ã pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45¡ã the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Hey guys,
Anybody interested? I¡¯m moving and I really don¡¯t want to move this if I¡¯m going to replace it for a bigger machine at the other end. This is perfect for a small shop. Maybe we can negotiate on price?
Ed
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?
Thanks Branden and many others for the ideas. I had good luck with my same small precision 45 yesterday (posted pics in redpo as to Brian). So I think a larger 45 may just speed up the process.
?
I plan to try my hand at going into business next year and now I am interested in working and not tinkering. So when issues like these come up I like to have a dependable solution.
?
Imran
On Feb 13, 2022, at 9:50 AM, Branden Helgason via groups.io <brandenhelgason@...> wrote:
Hi Imran
?
Another idea, just cut some 45 degree blocks. Measure both sides, they should be identical. Since the 45s would be sharp you could use the dial indicator to precisely measure difference between cuts.?
?
When the match, you¡¯re done.?
?
I agree that if there¡¯s no cal sheet it would be a gamble if it¡¯s accurate or not. Likewise you can measure the new tool with the same method.?
?
I had an inclinometer, I used that to help calibrate. I wasn¡¯t sure how accurate the inclinometer was either, but after I got 45.00 the 4x miters made a perfect frame.?
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Robert Johnson <woodewe@...> wrote:
A drafting triangle might work and there is a 16-inch one on eBay listed as PROFESSIONAL FLUORESCENT TRIANGLE 16" 45/90 DEGREE DRAFTING TOOL ART ORANGE NEON.
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Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Cripes¡ he just made a whole bunch of 6¡± blocks to stack together, use two and you have 12¡±. Wade needs to get past the idea that he thinks his tape measure is correct and figure out what is really correct, the tape measure, the fence scale or neither.
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Well, I guess you¡¯re just going tp have to get inventive. ? Have you considered making a spacer block of a known length? ? Oh, wait, you don¡¯t have a known-length reference standard that¡¯s longer than 6-inches right? ?How about two blocks that are precisely 5¡± long then?
David,
I was going to do that after watching your set videos for the digital crosscut stops, but now I have another problem in doing that at the moment. ?My DRO has the flip stop on the left. ?I do not have a DRO with a flip stop on the right. ?I can only cut down to about an 8¡± long stick. ?And my digital caliper is maxed out at 6¡± or so. ?So I cannot cut a know quantity under 6¡± to program into the DRO.
Wade ? Setup and calibrate your digital crosscut stops and check whether a 30¡± stick cut on that side of the blade agrees with your tape measures or your rip fence scale. ?My money¡¯s on the rip fence scale being the more accurate. ?But hey, I could be wrong. ?My point is that you have no known-good reference standard now other than the stack of 6¡± blocks. ?You¡¯re groping around in the dark until you find a known-good reference point.
David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale. ?Both have indicated the same results. ?After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it. ?After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit. ?And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience. ?It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
? Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach. ?I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested. ?I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36¡± long. ?Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on. ?Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
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Hi Imran
Another idea, just cut some 45 degree blocks. Measure both sides, they should be identical. Since the 45s would be sharp you could use the dial indicator to precisely measure difference between cuts.?
When the match, you¡¯re done.?
I agree that if there¡¯s no cal sheet it would be a gamble if it¡¯s accurate or not. Likewise you can measure the new tool with the same method.?
I had an inclinometer, I used that to help calibrate. I wasn¡¯t sure how accurate the inclinometer was either, but after I got 45.00 the 4x miters made a perfect frame.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 5:41 PM, Robert Johnson <woodewe@...> wrote:
?A drafting triangle might work and there is a 16-inch one on eBay listed as PROFESSIONAL FLUORESCENT TRIANGLE 16" 45/90 DEGREE DRAFTING TOOL ART ORANGE NEON.
|
Re: Hammer K3 and A3-31 Mobility kit / Casters
Likewise my A3-31 and F3 live on Bora Portomate mobile stands.
Very easy to move and not going anywhere when lowered off the casters.
The A-31 is on a PM3500, two fixed wheels and ?two rotating casters.
The F3 is on a PM3550, four casters, this can be moved in any direction.
Chris Edwards (407) 902-1358 cell
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My A3-31 lives on a Bora portamate base I can move it with one hand when it¡¯s unlocked. It sits solidly on the floor when it is locked.? On Feb 12, 2022, at 11:29 PM, Mark Foster <mfsta2lt@...> wrote:
? Consider a pallet jack.
Mark Foster? On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:14 PM, SirRey < sirrey@...> wrote:
Hey have both a Hammer K3? Winner 72" and a A3-31 both with their mobility kits that completely suck.? Has anyone replaced their mobility kits with self leveling casters? any other suggestions welcome
Ray
-- Mark Foster
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And you were the guy who wanted to buy my Aigner Distometer.? For shame.
David Best
That's one of your museum pieces.? You can't sell it
Dave Davies Imran,
For the right price, I could be talked out of this. ? Bridge City Tools Angle Master Pro. ? ?
![]()
Thanks David. I see they have one 18¡± long. Not sure if that is the short or long side but will get one. If nothing else, good for layout.
Imran ? Imran, ?Here¡¯s another alternative - it¡¯s what I use for checking miters and 45¡ã crosscut fence position.? Not the most durable thing in the world, but it¡¯s not expensive either.
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it¡¯s long side is 6¡± and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4¡± along the blade. I have Brian¡¯s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12¡± for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ?Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian¡¯s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45¡ã pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45¡ã the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Well, I guess you¡¯re just going tp have to get inventive. ? Have you considered making a spacer block of a known length? ? Oh, wait, you don¡¯t have a known-length reference standard that¡¯s longer than 6-inches right? ?How about two blocks that are precisely 5¡± long then?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
David,
I was going to do that after watching your set videos for the digital crosscut stops, but now I have another problem in doing that at the moment. ?My DRO has the flip stop on the left. ?I do not have a DRO with a flip stop on the right. ?I can only cut down to about an 8¡± long stick. ?And my digital caliper is maxed out at 6¡± or so. ?So I cannot cut a know quantity under 6¡± to program into the DRO.
Wade ? Setup and calibrate your digital crosscut stops and check whether a 30¡± stick cut on that side of the blade agrees with your tape measures or your rip fence scale. ?My money¡¯s on the rip fence scale being the more accurate. ?But hey, I could be wrong. ?My point is that you have no known-good reference standard now other than the stack of 6¡± blocks. ?You¡¯re groping around in the dark until you find a known-good reference point.
David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale. ?Both have indicated the same results. ?After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it. ?After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit. ?And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience. ?It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
? Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach. ?I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested. ?I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36¡± long. ?Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on. ?Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Hey Bill, 300mm makes a lot more sense than what i did. Another on of those lets just do this real quick to see how it works and then just living with it.
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Show quoted text
On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:20 AM, Bill Belanger <Bill@...> wrote:
? That¡¯s what I do Mark. Used 300mm for easy in my head calc. ? That along with Brian¡¯s fence¡ Bill Belanger
You can make a spacer to cut less 6¡± and below then set the off set on the DRO to it  ?
I can try and find the email that she quoted me this.? My area was a factor, Pacific Northwest? ?That makes no sense to me unless your shop is in Alaska or Hawaii.? A friend just had a Kappa 400 xMotion commissioned and it was $1,400.
David Best
Hey Mark,
Yeah commissioning wasn¡¯t cheap.? I pretty much blame Covid for everything now! ??
Wade ?Holy cow, 3k for commissioning? I think 2 yrs ago it was $1250 at the time of purchase. They included it because of the issues with the ad941. They probably raised the price because of me, they had to come back 4 times before i told them to stop? ? David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale.? Both have indicated the same results.? After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it.? After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit.? And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience.? It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
?Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet?? A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance.? If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones.? Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th.? Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ?To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned.? To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible.? We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate.? I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet.? I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence.? Check to see if they agree.? You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes.? What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length.? I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above.? So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach.? I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested.? I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ?Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence.? The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately.? Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material.? Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop.? Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long.? Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end.? That should be 36¡± long.? Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
?I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop.? It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error.? Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be.? Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time.? Everything is good and tight.? So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade.? Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on.? Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch.? There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments.? Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel.? Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached.? It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
?Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down.? Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel.? Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface?? And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
No, the 202.8 is the offset see the DRO shows ¡°0¡±. This may be wrong because its too late but i assume you have set the dro for the cut which in this case is 202.8 with the flip stop all the way to the right against the hard stop on the fence - yours may be slightly higher or lower. Then you enter the offset of the piece you cut. When you push the up arrow and the down arrow at the same time you will get zero, then repeat and it goes back to the other dimension.
David is much better and more clear in describing this stuff, i¡¯m a beer drinker I think he is a Bourbon drinker?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:29 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? Mark,
Okay so I would just cut a random arbitrary piece first that I know would be less than 6¡± and then measure this with the calipers. ?Mark its length, such as you did with the 202.8 one. ?Then take this new spacer and put it between the flip stop and another stick that I¡¯d cut to another arbitrary length that is also less than 6¡± and caliper that, and then add the two together. ?Take this total and Input this into the DRO? ? On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Here is a little better pic of it in use
 On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:10 AM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? You can make a spacer to cut less 6¡± and below then set the off set on the DRO to it  On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:00 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? I can try and find the email that she quoted me this. ?My area was a factor, Pacific Northwest? On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:50 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? That makes no sense to me unless your shop is in Alaska or Hawaii. ?A friend just had a Kappa 400 xMotion commissioned and it was $1,400.
David Best
Hey Mark,
Yeah commissioning wasn¡¯t cheap. ?I pretty much blame Covid for everything now! ??
Wade ? Holy cow, 3k for commissioning? I think 2 yrs ago it was $1250 at the time of purchase. They included it because of the issues with the ad941. They probably raised the price because of me, they had to come back 4 times before i told them to stop? ? David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale. ?Both have indicated the same results. ?After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it. ?After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit. ?And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience. ?It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
? Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach. ?I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested. ?I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36¡± long. ?Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on. ?Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Mark,
Okay so I would just cut a random arbitrary piece first that I know would be less than 6¡± and then measure this with the calipers. ?Mark its length, such as you did with the 202.8 one. ?Then take this new spacer and put it between the flip stop and another stick that I¡¯d cut to another arbitrary length that is also less than 6¡± and caliper that, and then add the two together. ?Take this total and Input this into the DRO? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:19 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Here is a little better pic of it in use
 On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:10 AM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? You can make a spacer to cut less 6¡± and below then set the off set on the DRO to it  On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:00 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? I can try and find the email that she quoted me this. ?My area was a factor, Pacific Northwest? On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:50 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? That makes no sense to me unless your shop is in Alaska or Hawaii. ?A friend just had a Kappa 400 xMotion commissioned and it was $1,400.
David Best
Hey Mark,
Yeah commissioning wasn¡¯t cheap. ?I pretty much blame Covid for everything now! ??
Wade ? Holy cow, 3k for commissioning? I think 2 yrs ago it was $1250 at the time of purchase. They included it because of the issues with the ad941. They probably raised the price because of me, they had to come back 4 times before i told them to stop? ? David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale. ?Both have indicated the same results. ?After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it. ?After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit. ?And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience. ?It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
? Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach. ?I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested. ?I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36¡± long. ?Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on. ?Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Looks like I will have to sell the saw to afford it but then I would not need it ?
Imran?
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On Feb 12, 2022, at 10:17 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran,
For the right price, I could be talked out of this. ? Bridge City Tools Angle Master Pro. ? ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Thanks David. I see they have one 18¡± long. Not sure if that is the short or long side but will get one. If nothing else, good for layout.
Imran ? Imran, ?Here¡¯s another alternative - it¡¯s what I use for checking miters and 45¡ã crosscut fence position. ?Not the most durable thing in the world, but it¡¯s not expensive either.
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it¡¯s long side is 6¡± and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4¡± along the blade. I have Brian¡¯s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12¡± for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian¡¯s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45¡ã pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45¡ã the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Brian,
I like my square from you very much but as I mentioned in our private conversation, using pins to get additional angles is great but it is not conducive to angle setting where one really wants to go between blade and fence.
It was not planned but my neighbor showed up and wanted to make another rustic table. My short 45 worked this time just fine.
So maybe, something happened in a cut on the frame I made couple of days ago. For above I moved the long fence to opposing 45s and it still came out fine.
Imran
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Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 7:28 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote: ? You have an older version that doesn¡¯t have the 45? holes.
I have what you shared and that is what I used however it¡¯s long side is 6¡± and I had that along the xcut fence. So 4¡± along the blade. I have Brian¡¯s too but it does not have a 45. So was looking for something with ~10-12¡± for the short side so I get good coverage if the blade plate.
Imran ? Imran, you might consider something like this:
Or get Brian¡¯s square.
Then use a dial indicator against the leg like this
Thanks Jason. Unfortunately, I do not have the indexing feature on my K975. Just the miter scale on middle extrusion of the outrigger.
Imran On Feb 12, 2022, at 4:34 PM, Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I routinely use the 45¡ã pin stop for the long crosscut fence on the KF700. I always do this with the fence in the front position, closest to the operator side. I always prefer this for cutting solid wood. I ensure the blade is square to the slider then cut all my miters at that setting, not bothering to go 45¡ã the other direction. As mentioned before, cut the Hoffman keyways glue and your done. It's plenty accurate for frames up to 5' x 7' in my experience. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
That¡¯s what I do Mark. Used 300mm for easy in my head calc. ? That along with Brian¡¯s fence¡ Bill Belanger
You can make a spacer to cut less 6¡± and below then set the off set on the DRO to it  ?
I can try and find the email that she quoted me this.? My area was a factor, Pacific Northwest? ?That makes no sense to me unless your shop is in Alaska or Hawaii.? A friend just had a Kappa 400 xMotion commissioned and it was $1,400.
David Best
Hey Mark,
Yeah commissioning wasn¡¯t cheap.? I pretty much blame Covid for everything now! ??
Wade ?Holy cow, 3k for commissioning? I think 2 yrs ago it was $1250 at the time of purchase. They included it because of the issues with the ad941. They probably raised the price because of me, they had to come back 4 times before i told them to stop? ? David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale.? Both have indicated the same results.? After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it.? After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit.? And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience.? It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
?Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet?? A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance.? If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones.? Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th.? Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ?To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned.? To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible.? We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate.? I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet.? I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence.? Check to see if they agree.? You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes.? What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length.? I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above.? So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach.? I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested.? I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ?Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence.? The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately.? Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material.? Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop.? Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long.? Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end.? That should be 36¡± long.? Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
?I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop.? It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error.? Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be.? Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time.? Everything is good and tight.? So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade.? Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on.? Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch.? There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments.? Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel.? Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached.? It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
?Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down.? Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel.? Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface?? And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
Here is a little better pic of it in use
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:10 AM, Mark Kessler via groups.io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? You can make a spacer to cut less 6¡± and below then set the off set on the DRO to it  On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:00 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? I can try and find the email that she quoted me this. ?My area was a factor, Pacific Northwest? On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:50 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? That makes no sense to me unless your shop is in Alaska or Hawaii. ?A friend just had a Kappa 400 xMotion commissioned and it was $1,400.
David Best
Hey Mark,
Yeah commissioning wasn¡¯t cheap. ?I pretty much blame Covid for everything now! ??
Wade ? Holy cow, 3k for commissioning? I think 2 yrs ago it was $1250 at the time of purchase. They included it because of the issues with the ad941. They probably raised the price because of me, they had to come back 4 times before i told them to stop? ? David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale. ?Both have indicated the same results. ?After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it. ?After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit. ?And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience. ?It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
? Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach. ?I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested. ?I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36¡± long. ?Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on. ?Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: K 700 S, Did Felder cheap out on the rip fence?
You can make a spacer to cut less 6¡± and below then set the off set on the DRO to it 
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 13, 2022, at 12:00 AM, Wade Dees <wjdsignature@...> wrote:
? I can try and find the email that she quoted me this. ?My area was a factor, Pacific Northwest? On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:50 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? That makes no sense to me unless your shop is in Alaska or Hawaii. ?A friend just had a Kappa 400 xMotion commissioned and it was $1,400.
David Best
Hey Mark,
Yeah commissioning wasn¡¯t cheap. ?I pretty much blame Covid for everything now! ??
Wade ? Holy cow, 3k for commissioning? I think 2 yrs ago it was $1250 at the time of purchase. They included it because of the issues with the ad941. They probably raised the price because of me, they had to come back 4 times before i told them to stop? ? David,
I have laid down two different tape measures against the rip fence scale. ?Both have indicated the same results. ?After about 20¡± out, the scale starts getting off from what the steel tapes are saying. I¡¯m convinced this scale is not reading correctly. ?
I did not pay for the commissioning because they quoted me $3k for it. ?After spending $20K plus on the saw, that was my limit. ?And I thought it would be very useful to get to know the saw better and to understand how to do all of this with a hands on experience. ?It¡¯s testing my patience a bit, but I want to learn it.?
Wade
? Lay your measuring tape down on top of the Felder tape for the rip fence and see if they agree. ?
Have you calibrated your digital crosscut stops yet? ?A full PDF of directions is here: ?? Additional photos and videos of the process are here: ?
If you have the crosscut stops calibrated accurately, you can cut yourself a known-good stick that¡¯s as long as you want to compare with what the rip fence is giving you for the same distance. ?If they disagree, either the rip fence distance tape is not accurately marked, or there is some kind of cockpit error on your part, or the round bar that holds the rip fence housing is severely angled relative to the front edge of the cast iron top ?and saw blade.
I¡¯ve asked before, but never heard a response: ?is there some reason you didn¡¯t have Felder commission your machine?
? Hi David,
Made a precise 6¡± block, then calibrated the scale to that, then produced 5 additional ones. ?Lined them up against a 36¡± long cut I made and I¡¯m off by almost a 1/16th. ?Please see attached pictures below.?
Thx,
Wade
<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg> ? To achieve precise results, your machine needs to be precisely aligned. ?To get your machine in alignment, you need a few specialized tools, and a workflow that eliminates as many sources of error as possible. ?We don¡¯t - for instance - know if your tape measure is accurate. ?I have seen accuracy of conventional wind-up tape measures vary by as much as 1/8" over 4 feet. ?I posted some results about my tape tests a while back, and I recommend you read that post which is here: ?? Starrett tapes are the only once use in my shop. ??
You might first lay your tape measure down against or on top of the distance marking strip provided as part of your rip fence. ?Check to see if they agree. ?You would also benefit by having a decent flat steel measuring straight edge such at this one: ? I have two of these in my shop and use them all the time.? ? A conventional yardstick is no a precise measurement device. ?
The process I outlined will eliminate many sources of potential error in checking your rip fence distance tapes. ?What you care about is the results of the cut, not what your handheld tape against the fence to saw blade is suggesting the resulting cut might be in length. ?I¡¯m working under the assumption that you do not have a 12¡± digital caliper or a precise straight edge with known-good markings such as the one linked to above. ?So the process I outlined (assuming you have a 6¡± digital caliper) will get you to a string of 6¡± long blocks that when put together end-to-end should represent a known-good reference point for checking another longer off-cut length.
If you want to invest in a good but relatively inexpensive 12¡± digital caliper, I recommend this one - I have two of them and use them all the time in my woodworking workflow. ??? ?If you want something cheaper, there is this unit: ?? ?Or if you want a high quality unit, get the Mitutoyo like I have: ??
David,
That¡¯s an interesting approach. ?I¡¯m going to perform what you described, because I¡¯m very interested. ?I will admit I don¡¯t fully understand how it¡¯s going to explain the scale being off when I take simple measurement from the same tooth each time to the fence, at different distances. The further out I measure off the same tooth, the more off the scale reads.?
But I¡¯m going to try your method now.
Thank You,
Wade ? Again, without some photos or a video, I can¡¯t tell if you have a measuring cockpit error or what¡¯s going on. ? You should be measuring the results of a cut, not trying to measure from a blade tooth to the fence. ?The same is true of the crosscut stop - the measurement scale should be adjusted to agree with the precisely measured length of a piece of material cut using that stop position.
If you have a 6¡± digital caliper, here is one way to check accurately. ?Get yourself some 1 x 1 wood material. ?Set your fence at 6¡± as a bump stop, not overlapping the blade, and crosscut cut one piece using the crosscut fence and the rip fence as the bump stop. ?Measure it with your digital caliper, then adjust the fence as required, repeating the cut as necessary until the off-cut measures precisely 6¡± long. ?Then adjust the position of your measuring scale so the 6¡± mark aligns precisely with the fence face. Then cut five more of the 6¡± long blocks, and line them up on the bench end-to-end. ?That should be 36¡± long. ?Then position your fence at 36¡±, and make another off-cut there and compare that to the stack of blocks for length.
That¡¯s what I¡¯m wondering I might have, a faulty scale.
Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 2:16 PM, Steve Lyde via <stlyde@...> wrote:
? I have not noticed my Felder measurements being off but I did have that with the slider system on my sawstop. ?It turned out to be a faulty measurement scale from Sawstop not a faulty setup procedure.? Steve Lyde ? I do not understand your setup and how you are measuring that generates the error. ?Please make a video and post it somewhere so we can see what you¡¯re seeing.
I¡¯ve got the toe out dialed in right where spec says it should be. ?Then carefully tightened the other two remaining bolts on the support bar, while checking the indicator each time. ?Everything is good and tight. ?So then I calibrated the rip fence scale at 10¡± from the blade. ?Then I proceeded to measure at 5¡±, 10¡±, 20¡± all dead on. ?Then I get to 30¡± and it¡¯s off by a 1/32¡±, then out at 40¡± it¡¯s off en entire 1/16¡± of an inch. ?There has to be something else wrong here.
Thx,
Wade
? I think you¡¯ll find an analog (rather than digital) dial indicator far more useful for alignments. ?Generally speaking, you¡¯re looking for relative measurements rather than absolute - like in the case of the eccentricity of your rip fence wheel. ?Get yourself something like this:
?
David, your a smart guy!
Video attached. ?It just went over .010 in one spot! ? I¡¯ll forward this to Felder as well
? Rotate the rip fence housing around and upside down. ?Mount the dial indicator mag base somewhere inside the rip fence housing and indicate over and down to the wheel. ?Then carefully rotate the wheel and observe the indicator reading. ? If the indicator reading changes more than say 0.010¡± as it¡¯s rotated, then the wheel is defective and causing your fence to bounce up/down as it traverses the surface of the machine. ??
Yes, Just bought one prior to the saw showing up. ? Thx, Wade On Feb 12, 2022, at 9:13 AM, david@... via <david@...> wrote:
?
Are the two nuts, circled in red, only to adjust the rip fence 90 degrees to the table surface? ?And the ONLY way you want to dial in your toe out is through the adjustments of the large 50mm support bar as you described David?
Correct.
Do you have a dial indicator with magnetic base? ??Similar to this?
David Best
<magneticbasedialindicator.jpg>
|
Re: Hammer K3 and A3-31 Mobility kit / Casters
My A3-31 lives on a Bora portamate base I can move it with one hand when it¡¯s unlocked. It sits solidly on the floor when it is locked.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 12, 2022, at 11:29 PM, Mark Foster <mfsta2lt@...> wrote:
? Consider a pallet jack.
Mark Foster? On Feb 12, 2022, at 8:14 PM, SirRey < sirrey@...> wrote:
Hey have both a Hammer K3? Winner 72" and a A3-31 both with their mobility kits that completely suck.? Has anyone replaced their mobility kits with self leveling casters? any other suggestions welcome
Ray
-- Mark Foster
|
imran
David P. Best
Bill Belanger
Jeff