Re: separate jointer planer
Hi Bill,
that is befuddling and i did not expect single purpose jointers to carryover the hinge mechanism. i guess if is cheaper for felder to do so instead of redesign. David has clarified the options, so that is good to know.
imran
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On Nov 2, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote: ? [Edited Message Follows]
Imran, I based my thought about the A941 and A951 after I reviewed the manual posted in the File section. The manual shows hinges for both A and AD models or I miss read the manual. Maybe someone with an A model can confirm or not. Thanks, Bill
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Re: Freeborn cope and pattern center groover option
I believe you can get top hat bushings from Rangate. Dave Davies
Hello all,
I want to buy a set of Freeborn Cope and Pattern cutters for a cabinet project.? Freeborn gives you the option of choosing the center groover's width and depth of cut.? The standard is 1/4" x 3/8".? I routine purchase 1/4-inch plywood, but none of it ever is truly 1/4-inch in thickness.? The thickness varies from batch to batch, so I always adjust my groove cutter or dado set to match the material.? For this Freeborn set, I want to ask which center groover option people recommend? Also, beside Whitehill in the UK, where else are top-hat bushings available for purchase to adapt the Freeborn cutters from 1 1/4 inch bore to a 30mm spindle on a KF700SP?? The archive mentions Paul Jordan's company, but I can't find it using the common search engines.??
I am looking at PC-10-060, PC-10-050, or PC-10-070.??
Thanks!
SW
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Freeborn cope and pattern center groover option
Hello all,
I want to buy a set of Freeborn Cope and Pattern cutters for a cabinet project.? Freeborn gives you the option of choosing the center groover's width and depth of cut.? The standard is 1/4" x 3/8".? I routine purchase 1/4-inch plywood, but none of it ever is truly 1/4-inch in thickness.? The thickness varies from batch to batch, so I always adjust my groove cutter or dado set to match the material.? For this Freeborn set, I want to ask which center groover option people recommend? Also, beside Whitehill in the UK, where else are top-hat bushings available for purchase to adapt the Freeborn cutters from 1 1/4 inch bore to a 30mm spindle on a KF700SP?? The archive mentions Paul Jordan's company, but I can't find it using the common search engines.??
I am looking at PC-10-060, PC-10-050, or PC-10-070.??
Thanks!
SW
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Re: Tannewitz Brake Questions
Joe, I believe the purpose of the upper brake was to only activate when tension was released quickly as when the blade breaks.? The top wheel locks immediately to keep the blade from chewing up everything.? The bottom brake activates manually with a foot pedal
on my Oliver so your Tanny might be different.? The upper safety brake was fairly standard on large old saws.? Dave
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I¡¯ve started disassembly and the brakes apparently changed a lot over the years . On my machine both wheels have brake drums integrated but the lower had no brakes.? There
is a heavy steel plate that bolts to the motor that has one broken off bolt and a slot crudely cut with a torch.? It¡¯s not clear that drum brakes ever mounted to that plate.? I will remove the upper brakes and the master cylinder.
?
?
What ever is the simplistic and cheapest I would avoid using a brake Justin case of emergency.
In larger machines bigger hp I would use disc brakes .
My oliver has an over ride that cuts the motor if the blade brakes than using the manual rub brake.
My best advise is don¡¯t stand to the right of the blade so your not buy when blade breaks.
Designing and building for 50 years
?My saw serial number says it was built in 1967 and it was built with hydraulic brakes.? At some point it was converted to the electronic brake setup Tannewitz uses now. I have not torn anything down yet, still don't have it off the pallet.? But it looks like
the solenoid that drives the master cylinder for the brakes may be fried.??
I had intended to restore it including the brakes but this will be a saw I intend to use and I assume the electronic brake is a better system than the car brake setup. Does anyone have experience?
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Re: separate jointer planer
Felder makes only two stand alone jointers that do not have tables that flip up. ?They are the A951L and the Format-4 Plan 51L. ? Both machines employ the cam elevation system on the outfeed table, The A951L uses the cam system on the infeed table, and the Plan 51L has a completely unique infeed table elevation design. ?All the other jointers in the Felder line have tables that are hinged at the back and flip up - even the ones without the planer underneath. ? The Plan 51L infeed table can be quickly adjusted to produce a concave, flat or convex result, the A951L infeed table alignment is static. ??I did a design analysis of the Plan 51L for another FOG member and if you DM me, I¡¯ll send you a copy. ??In my experience many of the issues with the Jointer/Planer combo machines are related to the complexity and design of the hinge/latch mechanisms that facilitate flip-up tables. ?I have no direct experience with the new A951L, but reports from those who have used it have been positive, and with the elimination of the hinged table mechanisms, it¡¯s a machine I would seriously consider if I were looking for a newly manufactured stand alone jointer. An alternative to the two Felder jointer offerings worth checking out would be the SCM Nova F520 jointer. ? ??
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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On Nov 2, 2020, at 5:19 AM, Bill James via < xxrb2010@...> wrote:
Hi,
I read all the advices about going separate if you can as well as the inherent issues with the combo design for adjustment of the top tables, especially infeed (planer as called by Felder). I do have a A3-31 and did not mess yet with the infeed adjustment beyond the two securing bolt on the side opposite of the hinge. As my technic improve and I can dismiss my technic as the cause for bad jointing result, I might go tickle with the hinge side adjustment. I might also go separate.
So, looking at the Felder documentation, there is no standalone planer (as called by Felder). The A941 or A951L seems to have the same design and thus same issues as the AD941 and AD951. For fellows who went separate which planer did you buy? By planer I mean get one side of a board dead flat.
Thanks,
Bill?
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
That F38 is a rebranded Comatic I believe.? Have you googled with Comatic instead of F38?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of dyclist@...
Sent: Sunday, November 1, 2020 3:17 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] Felder F38 feeder repair
?
I have a seldom used F38 feeder that needs repair.? I set it up the other day and turned it on without a load or any pressure.? I heard some grinding, a crack, and two wheels quit turning.
Upon disassembly, I found two of the drive gears cracked and jammed in the chain.? I was able to get the cracked gears out, but I'm not sure how to replace them.
The smaller drive gear is held in place by two snap rings.? I'm not sure how to disassemble the driven gear and chain, and then re-assemble both gears and the chain together.
I appears that the wheel shaft must be removed to remove the the driven gear on this shaft.? Should I leave the driven gear and shaft in place and break the roller chain?? With such a short chain, there's not much space to break the chain and to re-assemble
it.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
By the way, I spoke to Felder.? The technical group couldn't help me.? They suggested that I send the feeder back for repair.? With the cost of two way shipping and the estimated repair charges, I can probably come close by buying a new Comatic DC-30!
? ?Dennis
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Re: separate jointer planer
I bought the A951L and paired it with a D963.? Both are less than 1 year old, so I am unable to make any meaningful statement about reliability.? So far, they have performed their functions well.? They both have Felder's spiral cutter head.? If you decide on the A951L, you should inquire if the tables can be prepared for extension wings at both end.? I did not see this as an option when I placed my order, but I remember seeing a photograph afterward of a A951L with extension wings attached.? The A951L has a factory option for a power feeder base, which I purchased, but has not installed a power feeder.??The A951L has 140mm DC port.? Delivery of the A951L was a bit tricky because the machine is so long and the crate was even longer.? It needed to be loaded from the side of a trailer with a forklift.??
I remember reading David Best's analysis paper of the A951L and it's Format cousin.? During the research phase, I corresponded with Karl Knapp about the differences between the Felder 900 and Format series.? From memory, his recommendations leaned toward the Felder series as the additional options on the Format series were interesting but not essential.? He said something to the effect that they have thousands of shops with these machines and not much end user problems.? You may want to reach out to him.? He was very helpful.??
SW
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Re: Tannewitz Brake Questions
I¡¯ve started disassembly and the brakes apparently changed a lot over the years . On my machine both wheels have brake drums integrated but the lower
had no brakes.? There is a heavy steel plate that bolts to the motor that has one broken off bolt and a slot crudely cut with a torch.? It¡¯s not clear that drum brakes ever mounted to that plate.? I will remove the upper brakes and the master cylinder.
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 4:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Tannewitz Brake Questions
?
What ever is the simplistic and cheapest I would avoid using a brake Justin case of emergency.
In larger machines bigger hp I would use disc brakes .
My oliver has an over ride that cuts the motor if the blade brakes than using the manual rub brake.
My best advise is don¡¯t stand to the right of the blade so your not buy when blade breaks.
Designing and building for 50 years
?My saw serial number says it was built in 1967 and it was built with hydraulic brakes.? At some point it was converted to the electronic brake setup Tannewitz uses now. I have not torn anything down yet, still don't have it off the pallet.?
But it looks like the solenoid that drives the master cylinder for the brakes may be fried.??
I had intended to restore it including the brakes but this will be a saw I intend to use and I assume the electronic brake is a better system than the car brake setup. Does anyone have experience?
|
Re: separate jointer planer
Bill, where are you located?? Given you call a planer what we in US call a jointer, I'm wondering what used machines are available in your region.? Euro jointers ( planers ) like Martin, Bauerle, Kolle, Hofmann, as well as SCMI,Panhans, and Eastern Euro EMA,
Unitronix, Kirtchfeld, etc should be available used.? Put a vfd on them and you can run off single phase and get an industrial machine for the price of a lesser new model.? As long as the tables are flat, there have been no real improvements to jointers for
about 75 years.? Dave
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Hi,
I read all the advices about going separate if you can as well as the inherent issues with the combo design for adjustment of the top tables, especially infeed (planer as called by Felder). I do have a A3-31 and did not mess yet with the infeed adjustment beyond
the two securing bolt on the side opposite of the hinge. As my technic improve and I can dismiss my technic as the cause for bad jointing result, I might go tickle with the hinge side adjustment. I might also go separate.
So, looking at the Felder documentation, there is no standalone planer (as called by Felder). The A941 or A951L seems to have the same design and thus same issues as the AD941 and AD951. For fellows who went separate which planer did you buy? By planer I mean
get one side of a board dead flat.
Thanks,
Bill?
|
Re: separate jointer planer
Imran,
I based my thought about the A941 and A951 after I reviewed the manual posted in the File section. The manual shows hinges for both A and AD models or I miss read the manual.
Maybe someone with an A model can confirm or not.
Thanks,
Bill
|
Re: Ten woodworking tools you have to see
I have not used that disc sander, but I've been using a hand cranked one for years. I teach a class on making Shaker oval boxes every summer on a picnic table in the woods. It became the solution for fitting tops and bottoms very accurately, and quite quickly if you did a decent job cutting out with the coping saw. Mine is a converted Wards Master hand cranked grinder. I replaced the sharpening wheel with a plywood disc where the sandpaper is applied. I built a table fixture around it dedicated to the 3 degree bevel that we use on the parts. The grinder is geared so that you can crank a little and let it coast if you are just fine tuning. Everyone who's used it loves the thing. If only I could find a solution for dust collection!
I've been using the JDS Multirouter for nearly 25 years. One thing it can do that the Pantorouter can't is be a very fast production machine. When equipped with the pneumatic clamps, you can process chair parts at an alarming rate once you've got a setup. You couldn't do it any faster without spending exponentially more money on a twin table 5 axis CNC. I don't have any experience with a tenoner to know if that's a solution, but those are huge, single purpose machines not many of us have the space for. I mill brass and aluminum on the JDS.? Using a shop made jig which is essentially a vertical table, I can machine very small delicate parts like pickup rings for the guitars I build. I love that they use Thomson linear rails and bearings. The thing stays accurate year after year without any slop. I've never had a DRO on mine and I get by fine, but I'm sure I'd never go back if I installed it. It would be a slippery slope to have to add those all over the shop. Maybe as my eyes get worse...
I've thought of multiple improvements that could be made over the years, but they fall on deaf ears over at JDS. Now that they've been sold maybe things will change? I wouldn't be without one in the shop, or two or three. Down to just two now.
Jason
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Ten woodworking tools you have to see
Standalone slot mortisers can cut deeper mortise (more than 2" for traditional M&T joinery on door and table) than MultiRouter does. Festool Domino XL is a handheld slot mortiser paired with their fixed sized tenon (70mm is the deepest tenon you can use). I think you are referring to this post? on SMC, at that price (US$2900), I do not think it is a deal, I would rather buy a brand new Multi Router. Who cares about the steel stand, cabinet, 1.5HP used router, and used router bits? As a woodworker, I am sure anyone can design a better stand with a cabinet to suit their own needs. Darrel Peart on IG has lots of posts about how he uses his MultiRouter, he has two DRO on his MR, it is really handy to rout precise mortise at any size. MultiRouter's build does look more robust than PantoRouter. If there is a deal out there (like under $1800), I will buy it for sure. But the brand new price at $2995 without router and template, adding the Canadian tax (13%), is hard for me to swallow. There is no dust collection on MultiRouter whatsoever, unbelievable and terrible for a 30+ years old product. For MultiRouter owners, I think a $99 PantoRouter dust collection hood is needed (), LOL.
James
I too am following this thread.? David is my benchmark and I find it interesting that he felt it necessary to add the DRO to his multirouter.? JDS even thinks the Accruate?height DRO is a needed option.? From a functionality standpoint how do these compare to standalone machines like the Felder/Griggio/Make slot mortisers?? Festool Domino for that matter?? I see there is a multirouter?for sale on sawmillcreek now without any templates so I'd assume he primarily used his machine for basic slotting operations? Thanks, Dave Davies
On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 5:52 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: Thanks for all the comments. It has been a very interesting thread. I¡¯m quite interested in the comparisons between the panto router and the multi router, and whether one can do something the other can¡¯t. I have not used either, and my understanding is simply that the one is more robust than the other, and obviously has a very different price tag. Maybe like comparing a Kappa 400 with a Delta Unisaw? (I use that comparison only because I¡¯ve owned and used both very extensively.) They both cut wood, but they are really rather different animals with rather different price tags.
Thanks again, Lucky
I have recently been thinking about getting a pantorouter but coming from the multi router it just seams rinky dink however I haven¡¯t put my hands on one seems good enough for hobby work from what I have seen on ig and you tube but I can¡¯t tell if some of the users that rave about in-fact got it for free or at a discount. Just seems like a lot of money for what it is.
? ?
I love the Pantorouter...such a hugely versatile machine.? I find new ways to use it every time I use it.? I wanted to use it on my latest project but the Domino seemed like a better choice. ? But yeah, I can¡¯t say enough good about the Pantorouter.?
? Yep, the pantorouter seems to be all the rage at the moment...
?Multirouter is not on the list, PantoRouter and Tormek T8.
I talked To Mac Sheldon, he said he shipped many PantoRouters to US address near the border for Canadian customers, they crossed the border to pick it up. Otherwise, there are extra brokerage fees and duty except the Canadian tax, cause PantoRouter
is made in Taiwan. Because of the pandemic, I cannot cross the border now, just have to wait until the pandemic is over.
Having a horizontal mounted router opens lots of possibilities that you cannot do on the router table, not only for the chair making. For example, I can make an auxiliary table to turn the PantoRouter into the Hoffman dovetail machine.
James
OK...which two?? I'd guess the multirouter?is one of them.
Dave Davies
Interesting video, two are on my purchase list :)
I removed "expensive" in the subject line, cause I think people on this forum are generally comfortable with this kind of price (not Barth price) for high quality tools.?
James
--?
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: separate jointer planer
A941 and A951 may look similar to their combo brethren but since there is no hinge i would not dismiss them by saying that they will suffer from similar problems. unless of course there is data to support that.
?
i bought used dual51 and get dead flat boards. i have not bothered to adjust tables even though there is some room for adjustment from my measurements i did when i purchased it. i did adjust the open/close joint knob and set it to neutral.
?
i did learn after some time that some boards are going to move due to tension in the wood and may not ever get flat. as for thickness whenever i have measured, each side of the board, i have seen little or no variation. i just planned 2x10 cypress and saw 0.002¡± variation in thickness side to side.
?
imran
On Nov 2, 2020, at 8:19 AM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote:
Hi,
I read all the advices about going separate if you can as well as the inherent issues with the combo design for adjustment of the top tables, especially infeed (planer as called by Felder). I do have a A3-31 and did not mess yet with the infeed adjustment beyond the two securing bolt on the side opposite of the hinge. As my technic improve and I can dismiss my technic as the cause for bad jointing result, I might go tickle with the hinge side adjustment. I might also go separate.
So, looking at the Felder documentation, there is no standalone planer (as called by Felder). The A941 or A951L seems to have the same design and thus same issues as the AD941 and AD951. For fellows who went separate which planer did you buy? By planer I mean get one side of a board dead flat.
Thanks,
Bill?
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Re: Can anyone recommend a better flexible hose for my Felder Stuff?
#dustcollection
hi jim,
some of us looking for flexible and collapsible hose have used this inside the saw cabinet. it is available in 4¡± / 5¡± and likely more sizes but that is all i cared about. see link for FOG thread. i got a 5¡± hose from woodcraft that is really tough, it is flexible (bigger radius turns) but not collapsing.
POWERTEC 70220 PVC Dust Collection Hose (5 Inch x 10 Feet) | Flexible Clear Vue Heavy Duty PVC Hose https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XKMP1YX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_bLaOFbXP6176Q
imran?
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On Nov 2, 2020, at 6:51 AM, Jim Voos <daikubt@...> wrote: ?Hi gang,
Long time since my last post :-(
I need to replace my second Felder hose that literally disintegrated from the heat here in Wine Country.? Any quality hoses that you would recommend??
|
Hi,
I read all the advices about going separate if you can as well as the inherent issues with the combo design for adjustment of the top tables, especially infeed (planer as called by Felder). I do have a A3-31 and did not mess yet with the infeed adjustment beyond the two securing bolt on the side opposite of the hinge. As my technic improve and I can dismiss my technic as the cause for bad jointing result, I might go tickle with the hinge side adjustment. I might also go separate.
So, looking at the Felder documentation, there is no standalone planer (as called by Felder). The A941 or A951L seems to have the same design and thus same issues as the AD941 and AD951. For fellows who went separate which planer did you buy? By planer I mean get one side of a board dead flat.
Thanks,
Bill?
|
Re: Can anyone recommend a better flexible hose for my Felder Stuff?
#dustcollection
I got?MasterDuct PUR-F Hose and it is way better than the hose sold by Nordfab. No complaint so far, but I am not in Wine Country I am in the southeast.
Bill
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
hi Dennis,
i looked at my vario4 manual and noted that it covers all models. i do not see any exploded diagrams.
if you have any for your feeder you may consider sharing here. you may receive some feedback.
imran?
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On Nov 2, 2020, at 6:52 AM, dyclist@... wrote: ?Hi Imran,
No master link, they all look the same.??
I used to ride bicycles a lot when I was younger and did my own bike maintenance.? All the links in the chain are the same, so to remove a bike chain, you can "break" any link.
If I don't hear anything, maybe I'll try to do this.? There's just not much space in the feeder to break and re-assemble the chain.
Dennis
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Re: Felder F38 feeder repair
Hi Imran,
No master link, they all look the same.??
I used to ride bicycles a lot when I was younger and did my own bike maintenance.? All the links in the chain are the same, so to remove a bike chain, you can "break" any link.
If I don't hear anything, maybe I'll try to do this.? There's just not much space in the feeder to break and re-assemble the chain.
Dennis
|
Can anyone recommend a better flexible hose for my Felder Stuff?
#dustcollection
Hi gang,
Long time since my last post :-(
I need to replace my second Felder hose that literally disintegrated from the heat here in Wine Country.? Any quality hoses that you would recommend??
|
Re: Ten woodworking tools you have to see
I too am following this thread.? David is my benchmark and I find it interesting that he felt it necessary to add the DRO to his multirouter.? JDS even thinks the Accruate?height DRO is a needed option.? From a functionality standpoint how do these compare to standalone machines like the Felder/Griggio/Make slot mortisers?? Festool Domino for that matter?? I see there is a multirouter?for sale on sawmillcreek now without any templates so I'd assume he primarily used his machine for basic slotting operations? Thanks, Dave Davies
On Sun, Nov 1, 2020 at 5:52 PM David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote: Thanks for all the comments. It has been a very interesting thread. I¡¯m quite interested in the comparisons between the panto router and the multi router, and whether one can do something the other can¡¯t. I have not used either, and my understanding is simply that the one is more robust than the other, and obviously has a very different price tag. Maybe like comparing a Kappa 400 with a Delta Unisaw? (I use that comparison only because I¡¯ve owned and used both very extensively.) They both cut wood, but they are really rather different animals with rather different price tags.
Thanks again, Lucky
I have recently been thinking about getting a pantorouter but coming from the multi router it just seams rinky dink however I haven¡¯t put my hands on one seems good enough for hobby work from what I have seen on ig and you tube but I can¡¯t tell if some of the users that rave about in-fact got it for free or at a discount. Just seems like a lot of money for what it is.
? ?
I love the Pantorouter...such a hugely versatile machine.? I find new ways to use it every time I use it.? I wanted to use it on my latest project but the Domino seemed like a better choice. ? But yeah, I can¡¯t say enough good about the Pantorouter.?
? Yep, the pantorouter seems to be all the rage at the moment...
?Multirouter is not on the list, PantoRouter and Tormek T8.
I talked To Mac Sheldon, he said he shipped many PantoRouters to US address near the border for Canadian customers, they crossed the border to pick it up. Otherwise, there are extra brokerage fees and duty except the Canadian tax, cause PantoRouter
is made in Taiwan. Because of the pandemic, I cannot cross the border now, just have to wait until the pandemic is over.
Having a horizontal mounted router opens lots of possibilities that you cannot do on the router table, not only for the chair making. For example, I can make an auxiliary table to turn the PantoRouter into the Hoffman dovetail machine.
James
OK...which two?? I'd guess the multirouter?is one of them.
Dave Davies
Interesting video, two are on my purchase list :)
I removed "expensive" in the subject line, cause I think people on this forum are generally comfortable with this kind of price (not Barth price) for high quality tools.?
James
--?
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
imran
David P. Best
Joe Jensen
Jason Holtz