I have several Kreg jigs as well as the Castle TSM-12??, my preference is to use the Castle as much as possible. The lower angle of the entry is very nice, and I appreciate having the pilot holes drilled all the way through (my Kreg jigs never seem to drill the pilot all the way).?
My machine utilizes the pair of Bosch routers, and while it is loud, it's no louder than a JDS Multirouter or any other router-based machine in my shop.?
The TSM-12 is portable. I've only taken it on-site with me a handful of times, but it was handy to have in those situations. MUCH faster than a Kreg machine.?
The only real downside to the Castle machine is that it's really dialed-in for 3/4"/19mm stock. To work with thinner stock you need to put shims between the stock and the table, and I think maximum thickness is ~1.5" / 41mm.?
So, for my work flow I typically use my Mafell DD-40P and Festool Domino XL for alignment and so on, the Castle gets used for 3/4" stock, with the Kreg jigs in reserve for oddball parts and pieces that don't work with the Castle.....
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Just purchased the TSM-22. ?It is in stock not far from me, so I will go now to pick it up. ?Too bad Castle does not sell mobile bases. ?I will definitely want one. ?I could make my own with 4 locking castors. ?but when I do that, the wheels are under the machine and it raises the table quite a bit.
I asked Castle about the differences between the current models - 22 vs 31/35. ?I am told they are equally noisy, just in different ways. ?Both cut holes the same way at the same speed. ?The 22 does not have indexing stops but has table markings for alignment and so that should be fine.?The main advantage of the 31/35 is that they are meant for more than 4 hours/day continuous use. ?Don't need that. ?As a bonus, I can just plug the 22 into any 110V outlet and an air line and 4 inch hose and I am set. ?
I have seen Randy's nice big FF clamping table. ?I do not have one, but if I did, I think I would still get the castle because then when not using the table, I would not have to worry about the creep as much where I would need to find work arounds.?
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Sorry Joel not helping but wanted to thank Randy for the Kreg comment.
imran?
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On Oct 12, 2020, at 5:18 AM, Randy Child via groups.io <strongman_one@...> wrote: ?
I have the air actuated Kreg, but it's also an early model..make basically no noise.? As for that famous "Kreg Kreep" mentioned, I have the face frame assembly table with pneumatic hold downs and that eliminated the creeping that folks hate. When I assemble the cabinets, I drill 2 holes about 2" apart on both parts and use a clamp on both parts, and drive the screw in 1 of the holes of each part. this eliminates the creeping since I'm using 2 clamps to hold everything close.? Also, it helps when you add glue to the cabinet parts, clamp and allow the glue to set up a little so it cannot creep when screwing
On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 09:55:03 PM PDT, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
/g/felderownersgroup/topic/36264995#78665Interesting on the noise comparison. In the linked thread, it is suggested that the air motor for the pilot hole may even make more noice than the 21-22, but not confirmed. ?Someone suggested to me that the pneumatic versions were way quieter. ?I will call Castle in the morning and see what they say. ?When I revived this thread, my main interest was to see if anyone had used both the 31/35 and 21/22 to compare.
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i replaced start and stop switches when the start became intermittent on my K975 saw - basically when i bought it used. i did not call felder as they were readily available online. Not expensive and easy to replace.
imran?
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On Oct 12, 2020, at 6:38 AM, Jarrett Maxwell <j.a.max7@...> wrote: ? Hey Toby,?
I've had the shaper stop button not reset before. The spring loaded button will return to its original position but the switch itself would not return to its normal resting position.? It would eventually spring back on its own but the machine was down until it did. Once that stop switch was replaced the problem ceased.?
Since your problem solved itself I would think that it may be a dirty or failing stop switch as others have mentioned.?
Jarrett?
You guys are awesome.? So many great ideas.
?
I got pretty frustrated yesterday and moved to another project.? It’s funny how so many projects in my shop still require this saw/shaper.? It seems that nearly every other project I tried to work on also required the saw or shaper.
?
Today I thought I would check things once more before phoning support.? Not sure what happened, but I got the yellow light Brian refers to below, and then tried starting the shaper and it worked.
?
A long time ago I was in product support… if it only happened once, it didn’t really happen.? So I guess I wait to see if it happens again.
?
Thanks everyone!
?
Toby Jutras, Owner
Maine Wood Products, LLC
603.322.3805
?
?
Put the selector button in reverse for the shaper, see if the yellow light comes on. If it doesn’t, you have an open connection in your e-stop string. All the limit switches and stop buttons are daisy chained into one circuit, if any of
them are open, you can’t start the machine.
?
?
I used my the Shaper this morning, then switched to saw and it is not starting. I’ve tried:
-
Power cycling
-
Fuses checked with ohm meter
-
Safety switches properly engaged
-
Switching from saw to shaper several times
Neither the saw nor shaper will start.?
Any guidance is appreciated.?
?
|
Hey Toby,?
I've had the shaper stop button not reset before. The spring loaded button will return to its original position but the switch itself would not return to its normal resting position.? It would eventually spring back on its own but the machine was down until it did. Once that stop switch was replaced the problem ceased.?
Since your problem solved itself I would think that it may be a dirty or failing stop switch as others have mentioned.?
Jarrett?
You guys are awesome.? So many great ideas.
?
I got pretty frustrated yesterday and moved to another project.? It’s funny how so many projects in my shop still require this saw/shaper.? It seems that nearly every other project I tried to work on also required the saw or shaper.
?
Today I thought I would check things once more before phoning support.? Not sure what happened, but I got the yellow light Brian refers to below, and then tried starting the shaper and it worked.
?
A long time ago I was in product support… if it only happened once, it didn’t really happen.? So I guess I wait to see if it happens again.
?
Thanks everyone!
?
Toby Jutras, Owner
Maine Wood Products, LLC
603.322.3805
?
?
Put the selector button in reverse for the shaper, see if the yellow light comes on. If it doesn’t, you have an open connection in your e-stop string. All the limit switches and stop buttons are daisy chained into one circuit, if any of
them are open, you can’t start the machine.
?
?
I used my the Shaper this morning, then switched to saw and it is not starting. I’ve tried:
-
Power cycling
-
Fuses checked with ohm meter
-
Safety switches properly engaged
-
Switching from saw to shaper several times
Neither the saw nor shaper will start.?
Any guidance is appreciated.?
?
|
You guys are awesome.? So many great ideas.
?
I got pretty frustrated yesterday and moved to another project.? It’s funny how so many projects in my shop still require this saw/shaper.? It seems that nearly every other project I tried to work on also required the saw or shaper.
?
Today I thought I would check things once more before phoning support.? Not sure what happened, but I got the yellow light Brian refers to below, and then tried starting the shaper and it worked.
?
A long time ago I was in product support… if it only happened once, it didn’t really happen.? So I guess I wait to see if it happens again.
?
Thanks everyone!
?
Toby Jutras, Owner
Maine Wood Products, LLC
603.322.3805
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Brian Lamb via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 12:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] KF700S Not Starting
?
Put the selector button in reverse for the shaper, see if the yellow light comes on. If it doesn’t, you have an open connection in your e-stop string. All the limit switches and stop buttons are daisy chained into one circuit, if any of
them are open, you can’t start the machine.
?
?
I used my the Shaper this morning, then switched to saw and it is not starting. I’ve tried:
-
Power cycling
-
Fuses checked with ohm meter
-
Safety switches properly engaged
-
Switching from saw to shaper several times
Neither the saw nor shaper will start.?
Any guidance is appreciated.?
?
|
I have the air actuated Kreg, but it's also an early model..make basically no noise.? As for that famous "Kreg Kreep" mentioned, I have the face frame assembly table with pneumatic hold downs and that eliminated the creeping that folks hate. When I assemble the cabinets, I drill 2 holes about 2" apart on both parts and use a clamp on both parts, and drive the screw in 1 of the holes of each part. this eliminates the creeping since I'm using 2 clamps to hold everything close.? Also, it helps when you add glue to the cabinet parts, clamp and allow the glue to set up a little so it cannot creep when screwing
On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 09:55:03 PM PDT, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
/g/felderownersgroup/topic/36264995#78665Interesting on the noise comparison. In the linked thread, it is suggested that the air motor for the pilot hole may even make more noice than the 21-22, but not confirmed. ?Someone suggested to me that the pneumatic versions were way quieter. ?I will call Castle in the morning and see what they say. ?When I revived this thread, my main interest was to see if anyone had used both the 31/35 and 21/22 to compare.
|
/g/felderownersgroup/topic/36264995#78665Interesting on the noise comparison. In the linked thread, it is suggested that the air motor for the pilot hole may even make more noice than the 21-22, but not confirmed. ?Someone suggested to me that the pneumatic versions were way quieter. ?I will call Castle in the morning and see what they say. ?When I revived this thread, my main interest was to see if anyone had used both the 31/35 and 21/22 to compare.
|
i remember seeing a video that showed that predrilling with 1/8” drill solves the shifting issue with kreg. if is not a solution for production guys but if it works it would work for me, an occasional user. has anyone tried it?
imran?
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On Oct 11, 2020, at 6:26 PM, Jason Holtz <jholtzy@...> wrote: ? I have used the 21 in a production environment. They are not quiet. They do what they're intended to do, and do it well. I prefer a pneumatic tool over the whine of those two routers.?
I have a Kreg machine, which may have actually been a very early prototype of the Foreman. It's all air, built around an inline Sioux drill. It's even got 80/20 extrusions as the fence and cylinder holder. One stomp of the foot pedal actuates the clamp, engages the drill,and unclamps just like a Castle. Best of all it's a table top model that is easily stashed away. I'm not sure how much air it actually uses but I drill a lot of holes before my 80 gallon compressor kicks?in. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
I have used the 21 in a production environment. They are not quiet. They do what they're intended to do, and do it well. I prefer a pneumatic tool over the whine of those two routers.?
I have a Kreg machine, which may have actually been a very early prototype of the Foreman. It's all air, built around an inline Sioux drill. It's even got 80/20 extrusions as the fence and cylinder holder. One stomp of the foot pedal actuates the clamp, engages the drill,and unclamps just like a Castle. Best of all it's a table top model that is easily stashed away. I'm not sure how much air it actually uses but I drill a lot of holes before my 80 gallon compressor kicks?in. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
I have used both systems. ?In the case of Kreg, I have used their portable kit where the custom two-step bit is driven by a handheld drill. ?In the course of a faceframe job, I got so frustrated with it that I bought a Castle TMS-21 which is a joy to use. ? This is what I had (still have somewhere packed away for the big estate sale coming up on my 100th).
I have not used the Kreg motorized bench top pocket hole machine, but it uses the same bit and angle for the hole drilled as their portable clamp-on drill driven system. ? My frustration with the Kreg system stems from the angle of the pocket hole. ? That makes it difficult to keep the two pieces being screwed together perfectly aligned at the face. ? The steep angle (15 degrees) has a tendency to pull the two pieces out of alignment as the screw is driven home, even if you have the parts face-clamped together. ? I look at the following image published by Kreg and laugh - there is no way that clamp is going to keep the edges aligned as the screw is driven down. ??
In contrast to the Kreg, the Castle pocket hole is drilled at 6-degrees, and keeping joints aligned when driving the screw home is easy and routine. ? Yes, the parts still have to be clamped when driving the screw, but the low angle of attack makes it much less likely that the joint will be displaced if normal clamping procedure are employed. ? To the extent you want a cleanly routed pocket (if it’s exposed), the Castle system produces a much nicer looking pocket with less tearout. ?
Both companies make a benchtop machine, and IMO, and based on my experience with both pocket systems, the Castle is worth twice the price of the Kreg. ?I’d go so far as to say I never want a Kreg pocket hole system in my shop. ? Watch this animation - it illustrates my point, as does the guy in the video you linked to in your message: ????
The Castle system TMS-12 (bench top) and TMS-21/22 both employ two routers - one to cut the pocket, the other to drill the web. ? The larger version has a pneumatic clamping system with foot-peddle that triggers the complete operation (clamps the stock, articulates both routers, then releases the clamp). ? The benchtop version has a manual material clamp, and the routers are articulated by moving a lever ratthe that being articulated by air cylinders. ? Both have have dust extraction ports, and in the case of the TMS-21/22, it’s effective with a conventional 4” connection. ? Since these machine have two high speed routers inside, they are not quiet. ??
Hope this is helpful. ? I think John Kee just recently bought a used TMS-21 so he may have impressions to share as well. ? The TMS-22 has a flip-top table improvement over the TMS-21 to make it easier to change router bits. ? In the 15 years I have owned and used my TMS-21, I have yet to need to access the routers or change bits.
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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I am interested in getting a pocket hole machine. ?I have a Kreg foremen and do not like the movement-offset associated with the 10 degree house. ?Thanks David for the useful comments. ?Since this topic was discussed in 2015 I noted that Castle replaced the 21 with the 22 with a few upgrades as shown
I have a feeling that if I had a castle this would be my go to way to join wood in many situations where I now use dowels, biscuits, or dominos unless the pocket holes would show. ?Want to make sure of my decision between the 22, 31, and 35. ?I understand these machines last a very long time and I only want to cry once. ?I have noted that a couple of people who have the 21 have very nice equipment, and could have paid the extra for the 31/35 if of value. ?I am leaning towards the 21 but want to make sure I did not miss anything that would make me later think I should have ponied up for the 31/35.
I can't find any real comparisons. ?I know the spec differences, but am talking about real life use comparisons. ? I believe the 31/35 has indexing stops but not sure how valuable that is since these holes are generally not in precise locations. ?Maybe the table is smaller on the 31/35 which to me is and advantage as I have limited space if that is the case. ?
Has anyone used both to compare? ?I am not using it in a high production environment for sure. ?I want what drills the best holes and feels best when you set the wood up against the fence if there is any difference. ?Quiet is nice. ? A high air requirement that would overwhelm my California Air compressor would be a deal breaker on the 31//35.
Thoughts? ?Thanks!
|
Hoffman dovetail machine ?
Sent from my iEye
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I have the Zeta. I did not think that having the Zeta would be an effective substitute. Maybe I do not use the Zeta to its potential. ?For 1 example I am making face frames 2 1/8 wide rails and stiles. I did not consider the zeta for that.
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Hi Joel,? I have you looked into Lamello Zeta system? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Oct 11, 2020, at 6:59 PM, joelgelman via groups.io <joelgelman@...> wrote:
?I am interested in getting a pocket hole machine. ?I have a Kreg foremen and do not like the movement-offset associated with the 10 degree house. ?Thanks David for the useful comments. ?Since this topic was discussed in 2015 I noted that Castle replaced the 21 with the 22 with a few upgrades as shown
I have a feeling that if I had a castle this would be my go to way to join wood in many situations where I now use dowels, biscuits, or dominos unless the pocket holes would show. ?Want to make sure of my decision between the 22, 31, and 35. ?I understand these machines last a very long time and I only want to cry once. ?I have noted that a couple of people who have the 21 have very nice equipment, and could have paid the extra for the 31/35 if of value. ?I am leaning towards the 21 but want to make sure I did not miss anything that would make me later think I should have ponied up for the 31/35.
I can't find any real comparisons. ?I know the spec differences, but am talking about real life use comparisons. ? I believe the 31/35 has indexing stops but not sure how valuable that is since these holes are generally not in precise locations. ?Maybe the table is smaller on the 31/35 which to me is and advantage as I have limited space if that is the case. ?
Has anyone used both to compare? ?I am not using it in a high production environment for sure. ?I want what drills the best holes and feels best when you set the wood up against the fence if there is any difference. ?Quiet is nice. ? A high air requirement that would overwhelm my California Air compressor would be a deal breaker on the 31//35.
Thoughts? ?Thanks!
|
I am interested in getting a pocket hole machine. ?I have a Kreg foremen and do not like the movement-offset associated with the 10 degree house. ?Thanks David for the useful comments. ?Since this topic was discussed in 2015 I noted that Castle replaced the 21 with the 22 with a few upgrades as shown
I have a feeling that if I had a castle this would be my go to way to join wood in many situations where I now use dowels, biscuits, or dominos unless the pocket holes would show. ?Want to make sure of my decision between the 22, 31, and 35. ?I understand these machines last a very long time and I only want to cry once. ?I have noted that a couple of people who have the 21 have very nice equipment, and could have paid the extra for the 31/35 if of value. ?I am leaning towards the 21 but want to make sure I did not miss anything that would make me later think I should have ponied up for the 31/35.
I can't find any real comparisons. ?I know the spec differences, but am talking about real life use comparisons. ? I believe the 31/35 has indexing stops but not sure how valuable that is since these holes are generally not in precise locations. ?Maybe the table is smaller on the 31/35 which to me is and advantage as I have limited space if that is the case. ?
Has anyone used both to compare? ?I am not using it in a high production environment for sure. ?I want what drills the best holes and feels best when you set the wood up against the fence if there is any difference. ?Quiet is nice. ? A high air requirement that would overwhelm my California Air compressor would be a deal breaker on the 31//35.
Thoughts? ?Thanks!
|
Probably too easy, but.. Have you checked that the blade cover is properly closed??
|
Oh yeah, that happened once too - the stop switch on the table saw. i bypassed it, and viola, no problem.
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Hi Toby,This?happened to me in the past, and it turned out to be a bad stop switch. Felder walked me through finding which one was the problem, then walked me through bypassing it temporarily until a new switch showed up. You could try blowing on the stop switches with compressed air, worth a try.?
-Shawn On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 9:00 AM, Martin Guiver via?<martin.guiver@...> wrote: Could be the motor start capacitor as James has said but the motor usually tries to start and then stops it also buzzes too! Have you got more than one motor on your machine, if so it’s unlikely that both capacitors have failed! Hi Toby! First port of call is checking the input and output from your control transformer assuming you have checked all the supplies etc. The control transformer basically supplies power to the control circuit and in effect isolates the chassis from a live supply fault thus protecting the user. If your 230v in and out that’s what you should get on the meter. There’s no polarity as it’s AC. On the A2 terminal side there is also a relay which might have tripped and needs the button reset pushed or changed from manual to auto on the dial. There are also two small glass fuses, fuse holder on the DIN rail, they’re not as most think, fast fuses they are in fact slow variants to protect from startup surge! Hope that helps... oh by the way if it’s the Transformer Felder will want over ?300, try red electrical supplies and you’ll get the equivalent for under ?30!
More info 1phase 3 phase , vfd ? ? Designing and building for 50 years On Oct 11, 2020, at 8:07 AM, fa18frog via <fa18frog@...> wrote:
?Toby,
? ? ?Just had a similar situation with my N4400. ?I would recommend checking the motor start capacitor. ?Likely a visual inspection will tell you if it’s bad. ?The capacitor on the N4400 was mad hot and bulging at the seams.
James ?
|
Hi Toby, This?happened to me in the past, and it turned out to be a bad stop switch. Felder walked me through finding which one was the problem, then walked me through bypassing it temporarily until a new switch showed up. You could try blowing on the stop switches with compressed air, worth a try.?
-Shawn
On Sunday, October 11, 2020, 9:00 AM, Martin Guiver via groups.io <martin.guiver@...> wrote: Could be the motor start capacitor as James has said but the motor usually tries to start and then stops it also buzzes too! Have you got more than one motor on your machine, if so it’s unlikely that both capacitors have failed! Martin? On 11 Oct 2020, at 16:56, Martin Guiver <martin.guiver@...> wrote:
?
Hi Toby! First port of call is checking the input and output from your control transformer assuming you have checked all the supplies etc. The control transformer basically supplies power to the control circuit and in effect isolates the chassis from a live supply fault thus protecting the user. If your 230v in and out that’s what you should get on the meter. There’s no polarity as it’s AC. On the A2 terminal side there is also a relay which might have tripped and needs the button reset pushed or changed from manual to auto on the dial. There are also two small glass fuses, fuse holder on the DIN rail, they’re not as most think, fast fuses they are in fact slow variants to protect from startup surge! Hope that helps... oh by the way if it’s the Transformer Felder will want over ?300, try red electrical supplies and you’ll get the equivalent for under ?30!
Regards Martin? On 11 Oct 2020, at 14:27, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
?
More info 1phase 3 phase , vfd ? ? Designing and building for 50 years On Oct 11, 2020, at 8:07 AM, fa18frog via groups.io <fa18frog@...> wrote:
?Toby,
? ? ?Just had a similar situation with my N4400. ?I would recommend checking the motor start capacitor. ?Likely a visual inspection will tell you if it’s bad. ?The capacitor on the N4400 was mad hot and bulging at the seams.
James ?
|
Put the selector button in reverse for the shaper, see if the yellow light comes on. If it doesn’t, you have an open connection in your e-stop string. All the limit switches and stop buttons are daisy chained into one circuit, if any of them are open, you can’t start the machine.
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Show quoted text
Felder Folks,
I used my the Shaper this morning, then switched to saw and it is not starting. I’ve tried:
- Power cycling
- Fuses checked with ohm meter
- Safety switches properly engaged
- Switching from saw to shaper several times
Neither the saw nor shaper will start.?
Any guidance is appreciated.?
Toby
Get
|
Could be the motor start capacitor as James has said but the motor usually tries to start and then stops it also buzzes too! Have you got more than one motor on your machine, if so it’s unlikely that both capacitors have failed!
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 11 Oct 2020, at 16:56, Martin Guiver <martin.guiver@...> wrote:
? Hi Toby! First port of call is checking the input and output from your control transformer assuming you have checked all the supplies etc. The control transformer basically supplies power to the control circuit and in effect isolates the chassis from a live supply fault thus protecting the user. If your 230v in and out that’s what you should get on the meter. There’s no polarity as it’s AC. On the A2 terminal side there is also a relay which might have tripped and needs the button reset pushed or changed from manual to auto on the dial. There are also two small glass fuses, fuse holder on the DIN rail, they’re not as most think, fast fuses they are in fact slow variants to protect from startup surge! Hope that helps... oh by the way if it’s the Transformer Felder will want over ?300, try red electrical supplies and you’ll get the equivalent for under ?30!
Regards Martin? On 11 Oct 2020, at 14:27, Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression <airtightclamps@...> wrote:
? More info 1phase 3 phase , vfd ? ? Designing and building for 50 years On Oct 11, 2020, at 8:07 AM, fa18frog via groups.io <fa18frog@...> wrote:
?Toby,
? ? ?Just had a similar situation with my N4400. ?I would recommend checking the motor start capacitor. ?Likely a visual inspection will tell you if it’s bad. ?The capacitor on the N4400 was mad hot and bulging at the seams.
James ?
|
Tom Gensmer
imran
Jason Holtz
David P. Best