Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Felder e-shop has a graphic showing riving knife thickness.? ?Interestingly, it says non-CE compliant.? I wonder what isn't compliant.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 9:30 AM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
Riving knives should be less than the kerf but greater than the plate in thickness.? The additional weight of the dado also creates issues when using an injection brake as the brake unit must be? manually adjusted to stop the heavier cutter .? That requires
either a larger brake unit or greatly reduces the number of times per hour the machine can be shut off.? Dave
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard
size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no. 500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left, a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Riving knives should be less than the kerf but greater than the plate in thickness.? The additional weight of the dado also creates issues when using an injection brake as the brake unit must be? manually adjusted to stop the heavier cutter .? That requires
either a larger brake unit or greatly reduces the number of times per hour the machine can be shut off.? Dave
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Show quoted text
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:02:58 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard
size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no. 500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left, a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
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These are great. Thanks for the link.?
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Hammer K3 mobility solution
Hi. I recently acquired a Hammer K3 ?48x48 and with a really small shop space that lives most of its life as my wife¡¯s garage, everything has to be on wheels and able to be moved out of the way when woodworking time comes to an end. The factory mobility kit from Felder wouldn¡¯t work for me and I didn¡¯t like any of the aftermarket rolling bases. Last week I stumbled upon these machinery moving casters on amazon. They only add 1/2¡± to the height of the machine and are very sturdy and glide effortlessly.?
I place a small door stop style wedge under the front wheels when I¡¯m using the machine.?
A set of of is $105. Figured I¡¯d share. ?Search for ¡°Amarite Desk and Cabinet Corner Mover Dolly¡±
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Imran,
?
Did you use any washer with the mounts?? I am thinking of putting a fender washer ()?at the bottom of the chassis, above the bottom nut, to spread out the weight on a A951L and a D963.? BTW, price increased to $6.66 now.??
?
Thanks.
?
SW
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The crew is putting them through places today before we get more but the 3" castors appear to be good enough for the 300lb. rating and roll pretty well on our rough floor, and way nice to have 4-way swivel unlike the harbor freight hydro tables. The hand cranks are sufficient. Without measuring I'd say they could be drill operated with a 10mm hex, but hand isn't really a problem for rapid moves....the metal appears to be pretty hefty, maybe 11ga, and since we work in paint stripping and harsh chemicals we shall learn what grade of paint or powder coat was used soon enough. The top is about 30mm parawood like all the other husky tops, we may overlay our own tops to extend footprint capabilities and discussed boring dominoes into the edges to link them together when larger surfaces require.
In our shop, having a modular system of work tables is key as we are constantly rearranging for projects and being able to nest them away for storage is extremely valuable. They look good, seem easy to use with uneven floors, and I think we will have to work hard to break them.??
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020, 8:00 AM < tom@...> wrote: Brett that's fabulous! Do the tables feel reasonably robust? My expectation is that they're not as heavy duty as a hydraulic table, but for ~$150-200 they seem like a nice value. My memory is that the adjustment crank has a hex connection, and that for rapid height adjustments a guy could use a drill with a socket in lieu of the handle?.... I'll chat with the manager at my local Home Depot, see if I can get a similar deal....
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
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Brett that's fabulous! Do the tables feel reasonably robust? My expectation is that they're not as heavy duty as a hydraulic table, but for ~$150-200 they seem like a nice value. My memory is that the adjustment crank has a hex connection, and that for rapid height adjustments a guy could use a drill with a socket in lieu of the handle?.... I'll chat with the manager at my local Home Depot, see if I can get a similar deal....
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
That's pretty slick. Here's a direct link to a video. ?? Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Felder also lists the adjustable dado (6.3 mm to 20 mm) on the Dutch and other european sites:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
|
Re: Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
I think I just saw recently that Felder has something like this as well, if I remember correctly.
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:17:40 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
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Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Very Very interesting!! thanks for sharing..
On Tuesday, January 28, 2020, 04:02:58 AM PST, jmkserv@... <jmkserv@...> wrote:
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
|
Altendorf wins award for camera-based saw safety system
|
Re: Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
Jonathan that appears to be the same 3 pcs Dado they use here. Again I also tested that unit and because of the lack of cutters gave the same sort of cuts. The other issue is the narrowest cut it can achieve is 8mm/5/16". This is sort of a bastard size as far as materials go, at least in NA. Thanx for bringing us up to date on the EU regulations.
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 5:20 AM Jonathan Martens < jonathan@...> wrote:
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
|
Re: Airlines for new shop
I used type L copper piping/fittings with 50/50 solder which will flow easily with propane torch. ? Silver solder is for drinking water applications and requires higher heat like Mapp gas.
David Best
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, rainger < rainger@...> wrote:
Hello,?
I'm in the same boat, getting ready to run air lines in a new shop,? I'm leaning towards copper,? what thickness/type did you all use?? Is type M too thin? Did you use silver solder or soft solder? Thanks in advance for your input.?
Rainger Pinney
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 7:51 PM Mark Foster < mfsta2lt@...> wrote: I used Parker Hannifin rubber push loc 801-6-blk. Rated for 350 pounds in 3/8 with their brass fittings. I am really happy with how it turned out, easy install, no leaks and easy to cut in a ¡°T¡± somewhere if you want to add a drop.?
Mark Foster? For once, I¡¯m in complete alignment with John on this topic. I¡¯ve put copper in all my shops and wouldn¡¯t use anything else.? David Best - via mobile phone? ? ?Joe I used commercial grade copper, reasonable price for good tube and fittings. 3/4" with 1/2" drops. Combination of solder and Shark bites joints. Honestly black pipe or Aluminum weren't even considerations.?
-------- Original message -------- Date: 2020-01-27 2:45 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: [FOG] Airlines for new shop
I will be running airlines in the new shop soon.? I had been assuming I'd use Rapid Air.? If I do use that, would you do the hard lines or the roll. With the roll it looks like you need a straightener.? Or should I do copper? I don't use a ton of air.? I have an old Quincy 60 gallon with a 325 pump. I set it up with a 3HP motor so it runs slow.? I could change to a 5HP and double the speed to like 900 RPM.? I was thinking 3/4" lines would be fine.? I will use my current hose reel and add a couple more and a couple of machines need air. Advice welcome. PS, ordered all the Nordfab and the local licensed seller was cheapest.? Cheaper than Griz, etc.
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Re: Airlines for new shop
Hello,?
I'm in the same boat, getting ready to run air lines in a new shop,? I'm leaning towards copper,? what thickness/type did you all use?? Is type M too thin? Did you use silver solder or soft solder? Thanks in advance for your input.?
Rainger Pinney
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 7:51 PM Mark Foster < mfsta2lt@...> wrote: I used Parker Hannifin rubber push loc 801-6-blk. Rated for 350 pounds in 3/8 with their brass fittings. I am really happy with how it turned out, easy install, no leaks and easy to cut in a ¡°T¡± somewhere if you want to add a drop.?
Mark Foster? For once, I¡¯m in complete alignment with John on this topic. I¡¯ve put copper in all my shops and wouldn¡¯t use anything else.? David Best - via mobile phone? ? ?Joe I used commercial grade copper, reasonable price for good tube and fittings. 3/4" with 1/2" drops. Combination of solder and Shark bites joints. Honestly black pipe or Aluminum weren't even considerations.?
-------- Original message -------- Date: 2020-01-27 2:45 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: [FOG] Airlines for new shop
I will be running airlines in the new shop soon.? I had been assuming I'd use Rapid Air.? If I do use that, would you do the hard lines or the roll. With the roll it looks like you need a straightener.? Or should I do copper? I don't use a ton of air.? I have an old Quincy 60 gallon with a 325 pump. I set it up with a 3HP motor so it runs slow.? I could change to a 5HP and double the speed to like 900 RPM.? I was thinking 3/4" lines would be fine.? I will use my current hose reel and add a couple more and a couple of machines need air. Advice welcome. PS, ordered all the Nordfab and the local licensed seller was cheapest.? Cheaper than Griz, etc.
|
Why did they ban dado's in Europe?? (was Re: [FOG] Felder Dado Set cut quality)
On 27-1-2020 19:27, Randy Child via
Groups.Io wrote:
Why did they ban dado's in Europe??
Safety regulation IIRC:
- a riving knife has to be used at all times, I have not seen a
dynamic riving knife matching the kerf off the dado blade. Riving
knives are usually a little wider than the saw blade kerf, which
is not possible when cutting dados.
- axis in EU are usually braked to prevent long spinning after
shutting off the machine, as far as I know this is different to
non-EU. The inner blades of the dado stack are often not rigidly
fixed to the axis and therefore can not be braked easily.
- shaper is a safer alternative with appropriate hoods (also
required) and/or mechanical feeder as the cutter is minimally
exposed.
But stuff seems to change here as well. Not sure if that is for
the better or according to regulations:
Apparently Felder sells a device that has a striking resemblance
with a adjustable groove cutter for the shaper as a saw blade as
well. The dutch Felder webshop shows one on a saw with part no.
500-03-021 ()
It still is different to a dado blade though as there is a left,
a right part and optional central part, which are rigidly fixed to
the axis using the pins on either side of the axis hole.
Regards,
Jonathan
|
Re: Airlines for new shop
Glen you will typically only need a dryer if you have a compressor that is constant running suppling a large volume of air. In most cases a good waterfilter/separator will be enough. I run with 2 separators, one about 24" off the compressor and another on the line going to my spray guns. Line drops take care of the rest. An auto drain on the compressor is another nice feature.?
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Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> Date: 2020-01-27 10:08 p.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] Airlines for new shop
While on the topic, what causes the water build up? is it the compressor , the temp in and outside the building or humidity.? I was going to put in an air dryer but haven't yet, and I just checked my main drain line after six months and almost nothing, and the drops at the machine absolutely nothing. Kinda thinking I don't need the air drier. And this is a good distraction from the fact I just made 32 drawer fronts the wrong size. don't second guess the computer. off to get more material and start again. Glen Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:12 PM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: David, Your drops look almost identical to ours. We did install a refrigerated air dryer as well because in the summer we still have excessive water build up. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Airlines for new shop
I feel your pain on the drawer fronts Glen! I've remade a couple things this week already and it's only Monday...
Our shop is in Minnesota. It's very humid here in the summer, and even though we have AC to cool and dry it out, we get moisture accumulation. We also have a couple hundred feet of airline not including the drops from 18'. Our main line is galvanized as it was in place already. Everything we added is copper. We usually only run the dryer June-September or so. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765
While on the topic, what causes the water build up? is it the compressor , the temp in and outside the building or humidity.? I was going to put in an air dryer but haven't yet, and I just checked my main drain line after six months and almost nothing, and the drops at the machine absolutely nothing. Kinda thinking I don't need the air drier. And this is a good distraction from the fact I just made 32 drawer fronts the wrong size. don't second guess the computer. off to get more material and start again. Glen Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:12 PM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: David, Your drops look almost identical to ours. We did install a refrigerated air dryer as well because in the summer we still have excessive water build up. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Re: Airlines for new shop
While on the topic, what causes the water build up? is it the compressor , the temp in and outside the building or humidity.? I was going to put in an air dryer but haven't yet, and I just checked my main drain line after six months and almost nothing, and the drops at the machine absolutely nothing. Kinda thinking I don't need the air drier. And this is a good distraction from the fact I just made 32 drawer fronts the wrong size. don't second guess the computer. off to get more material and start again. Glen Big Tree Woodworking
P.O. Box 257 Avery Ca 95224
On Mon, Jan 27, 2020 at 6:12 PM Jason Holtz < jholtzy@...> wrote: David, Your drops look almost identical to ours. We did install a refrigerated air dryer as well because in the summer we still have excessive water build up. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
|
Bill Belanger
Tom Gensmer
Jason Holtz
David P. Best
Jonathan Martens