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Re: Shaper spindle

John Renzetti
 

I usually recommend that new owners get the 30mm spindle with the shaper,
unless they already own a number of 1.25" cutters. The 30mm cutters are
available from a number of US manufacturers or US offices of European
manufacturers. However, the best prices are the Leitz cutters that Felder
USA sells. I think Charlie Norton did a price comparison between Felder and
LeitzUSA and Felder was much less expensive. Felder is starting to sell some
1.25" cutters but these cost a little more than the 30mm.
I don't think you'd ever need the 40 or 50mm bore cutters unless you
were into some heavy duty continuous manufacturing of large moldings or
window and door frames. The Felder catalog lists one set of cutters at 40mm
for window and door manufacturing. This set runs almost $4000.
Sometime soon the new year 2000 catalog will be available in English. In
the meantime usually most of the normal cutters available that are in the
big Leitz Lexicon can be acquired through FelderUSA. For something really
special, SS Schmidt in NJ, will make up anything you can think of. They did
this for a huge cutterhead for Mike Simmons(Geoff Shepherd bought his
BF6-31) From what I understand this cutter was about 5" high and 8" in
diameter.
Take care,
John Renzetti

----- Original Message -----
From: dolsid <dolsid@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 1:37 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Shaper spindle


Seth: I am in the same boat. I didn't know "come here from sic'em" about
shapers I ordered an 1.25 inch spindle assuming that is was a US standard
and found Felder did do that size of cutters. I hit the net and found
several suppliers in the States so will probably shop here. If I find
that
I "must have" a Felder cutter will pony up for a 30mm since I understand
it
is a standard in Europe and that the 40mm is used when spindle deflection
is
a potential problem. I assume that a larger motor would be in order for
the
heavier duty cutters that would go on the 40mm.-----
Re: Stop nuts on cross-cut fence

APGAR, Lee, GCM
 

jeff-- I somehow got signed up twice for the group and am getting two
copies of every msg. Could you please delete one of my entries? Thanks.
My email is lee@....

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [mailto:geoff@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2000 1:38 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Stop nuts on cross-cut fence


Oh well - and I thought I was on to something truly clever... turns out the
tip about the stop nuts for automatically aligning the cross-cut fence only
works on the fence for the outrigger table. The regular cross-cut fence
doesn't provide enough lateral adjustment to compensate for the difference
in the stop scale at 45 degrees vs. 90. For that one, it looks like I
either
have to mark and measure manually when cutting at 45 degrees, or add about
54 mm to the desired length and set the stop to that (not a big hassel, but
prone to error).

...Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:17 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Stop nuts on cross-cut fence


Maybe I missed it in the manual, but I *think* I figured out the
intended use for two stop nuts in the T-track on the back side of the
cross-cut fence, at least as indicated in the assembly sheet that comes
with the it.

One stop goes on the blade-side of the aluminum clamp block (the one
that acts as a pivot for the fence), and this stop nut is set so the
fence rule is in accurate for 90-degree cross-cuts. The second stop nut
goes on the other side of the same aluminum clamping clamping block
(between the two clamp blocks actually). This stop nut is set to align
the fence rule to be accurate for 45-degree miter cuts. So to get
accurate length readings for 90 or 45-degree cuts, you just slide the
fence to the stop left or right while adjusting the angle. For
in-between angles, it will be off the mark.

The only unforunate part of using the second stop nut like this is that
it traps the one clamp block on that side of the fence, so moving the
fence to the rear position for wide cross-cuts would require loosing
that setting. A scribe or pencil mark could save the setting in the
mean time. Actually, I suppose there could be a full 45-90-45 lateral
degree scale on the back between the stops, but it might vary from
machine-to-machine depending on how close the user has set the fence to
the blade during initial setup.

Then again, most people probably just use a chop saw. :-)

..Geoff
(Too much coffee == too much thinking)


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Re: Stop nuts on cross-cut fence

Geoff Shepherd
 

Oh well - and I thought I was on to something truly clever... turns out the
tip about the stop nuts for automatically aligning the cross-cut fence only
works on the fence for the outrigger table. The regular cross-cut fence
doesn't provide enough lateral adjustment to compensate for the difference
in the stop scale at 45 degrees vs. 90. For that one, it looks like I either
have to mark and measure manually when cutting at 45 degrees, or add about
54 mm to the desired length and set the stop to that (not a big hassel, but
prone to error).

...Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2000 7:17 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Stop nuts on cross-cut fence


Maybe I missed it in the manual, but I *think* I figured out the
intended use for two stop nuts in the T-track on the back side of the
cross-cut fence, at least as indicated in the assembly sheet that comes
with the it.

One stop goes on the blade-side of the aluminum clamp block (the one
that acts as a pivot for the fence), and this stop nut is set so the
fence rule is in accurate for 90-degree cross-cuts. The second stop nut
goes on the other side of the same aluminum clamping clamping block
(between the two clamp blocks actually). This stop nut is set to align
the fence rule to be accurate for 45-degree miter cuts. So to get
accurate length readings for 90 or 45-degree cuts, you just slide the
fence to the stop left or right while adjusting the angle. For
in-between angles, it will be off the mark.

The only unforunate part of using the second stop nut like this is that
it traps the one clamp block on that side of the fence, so moving the
fence to the rear position for wide cross-cuts would require loosing
that setting. A scribe or pencil mark could save the setting in the
mean time. Actually, I suppose there could be a full 45-90-45 lateral
degree scale on the back between the stops, but it might vary from
machine-to-machine depending on how close the user has set the fence to
the blade during initial setup.

Then again, most people probably just use a chop saw. :-)

..Geoff
(Too much coffee == too much thinking)
Re: Shaper spindle

dolsid
 

Seth: I am in the same boat. I didn't know "come here from sic'em" about
shapers I ordered an 1.25 inch spindle assuming that is was a US standard
and found Felder did do that size of cutters. I hit the net and found
several suppliers in the States so will probably shop here. If I find that
I "must have" a Felder cutter will pony up for a 30mm since I understand it
is a standard in Europe and that the 40mm is used when spindle deflection is
a potential problem. I assume that a larger motor would be in order for the

heavier duty cutters that would go on the 40mm.----- Original Message -----
From: "Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)" <sdhoneyman@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 1:07 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Shaper spindle


This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth


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Re: POLL: Cutting Dados

dolsid
 

I use a straight bit on the router with the Felder, also use a straight bit
on a router table, I am in the process of trying to get a dado option
running on the Felder but have a backup of using a regular dado set on a

Delta table saw in another shop. --- Original Message -----
From: <geoff@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 1:57 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] POLL: Cutting Dados


Given that the Felder machines do not normally accept a stacked dado blade
set, what are your favorite/usual methods of milling dados?

----

Please select one or more of the following:

o High-speed spindle, straight bits
o H.S. spindle, spiral bits
o H.S. spindle, Hersaf bits
o Slotting cutter in shaper
o Multiple passes with saw blade
o Modified dado set
o Hand-held router
o Other


by going to the following Web form:



Thank you!


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Dado cutting poll reminder...

Geoff Shepherd
 

I see we have a few new members to the group - welcome!

Just a reminder - there is an informal survey in progress on cutting
dados with (or without) Felder equipment. If you haven't cast your vote
yet, visit:



I'll close the poll and forward the results to the list in a few days
or so. So get your vote in while you can.

Any of us can start a new survey - please feel free to do so... good
topics might be most-used shaper spindle size, or favorite saw blade.
To start a new survey, use the following link:




..Geoff (list manager)
Re: Shaper spindle

Geoff Shepherd
 

I have three spindles that came with my used BF6-31: 30mm, 1 1/4", and
router. I plan to sell the 1 1/4" to a friend who has a need for it, and
I'll just be sure to order 30mm cutters as I build my own collection. I
understand some of the heavier-duty cutters (slotting?) use a 40mm bore.
From what I've seen, Felder offers quite a good selection of tooling in both
their regular and Hammer lines at attractive pricing.

I too will soon order the monthly special, and also have on my wish list the
slotting cutter, and universal head. Eventually I would like to give a
serious go at making my own entry doors and window sashes for restoring my
1915 Bungalow.

John recycled some electrons thusly:
KF7F, AD7-41, AF22(unlike Geoff's, it's the very very loud version)
John - I think they gave you the jet powered version because being a pilot,
you would appreciate it more. ;-)

...Geoff
Re: Shaper spindle

John Renzetti
 

hi Seth, I think you should not only get to swap your 1 1/4" spindle for
a 30mm, but you should also get some money to spend on cutters. The 1 1/4"
spindle lists for $330, while the 30mm lists for $220. The 30mm is sometimes
on sale from the factory.
I would get the 30mm spindle. In doing some research on various shaper
manufacturers I found that Felder sells top quality Leitz of Germany cutters
for a lot less than Leitz does. You could also get some of the Hammer
cutters, which are made of aircraft aluminum instead of the Felder Tool
Steel. A good starting point on shaper cutters would be the rebate head and
then the universal cutterhead set with I believe 7 profiles. This is on sale
now for about $179. There are about 90 different profiles available. Also
recommend the adjustable slotting cutter. From there you can add the cope
and stick and the panel raisers.
Talk to you later,
John Renzetti
KF7F, AD7-41, AF22(unlike Geoff's, it's the very very loud version)

----- Original Message -----
From: Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York) <sdhoneyman@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 2:07 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Shaper spindle


This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth


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Re: Shaper spindle

Philip Tamarkin
 

...I've got 'em both, and, so far, haven't used either...keep in mind that you can
always bush 30mm to 1 1/4" if needed, also the 30mm will fit the saw blades for
slotting. Most major tooling houses offer both bores now, so tooling isn't much of an
issue...-Philip Tamarkin

"Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)" wrote:

This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth

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Shaper spindle

Seth Honeyman (Upstate New York)
 

This is a sort of a survey. When I ordered my BF6-31, I never gave too
much thought to the shaper function. I'd never used a shaper and have
a full shelf of router tooling. So I ordered the router spindle and
got a shaper spindle essentially as an afterthought. I've since
ordered the rebate head - the Felder February special - and found that
it was only supplied in 30 MM. My shaper spindle is 1.25".

Do you think that I should swap in my 1.25" spindle for a 30 MM. Do
you think it is worthwhile for the European tooling available or should
I stick with the 1.25? Felder has been nice enough to say that they
will exchange spindles for me at no charge, so cost is not a prime
consideration.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Regards - Seth
Stop nuts on cross-cut fence

Geoff Shepherd
 

Maybe I missed it in the manual, but I *think* I figured out the
intended use for two stop nuts in the T-track on the back side of the
cross-cut fence, at least as indicated in the assembly sheet that comes
with the it.

One stop goes on the blade-side of the aluminum clamp block (the one
that acts as a pivot for the fence), and this stop nut is set so the
fence rule is in accurate for 90-degree cross-cuts. The second stop nut
goes on the other side of the same aluminum clamping clamping block
(between the two clamp blocks actually). This stop nut is set to align
the fence rule to be accurate for 45-degree miter cuts. So to get
accurate length readings for 90 or 45-degree cuts, you just slide the
fence to the stop left or right while adjusting the angle. For
in-between angles, it will be off the mark.

The only unforunate part of using the second stop nut like this is that
it traps the one clamp block on that side of the fence, so moving the
fence to the rear position for wide cross-cuts would require loosing
that setting. A scribe or pencil mark could save the setting in the
mean time. Actually, I suppose there could be a full 45-90-45 lateral
degree scale on the back between the stops, but it might vary from
machine-to-machine depending on how close the user has set the fence to
the blade during initial setup.

Then again, most people probably just use a chop saw. :-)

..Geoff
(Too much coffee == too much thinking)
Fw: Hegner Mk.4

Geoff Shepherd
 

Joel,

Somehow I knew you might be interested in it.

Here is the message I received from the Shopsmith Users Group e-mail list
regarding the Hegner:

----- Original Message -----
From: Cort Boyd
To: SSUG-L@...
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2000 5:59 PM
Subject: Wet/Dry Grinders +


I recently purchased a Delta Model 23-700 Universal Wet/Dry Grinder. For
those that may be unfamiliar with this model, it has a
(snip)...

The second (+) part of my post is this: I have a Hegner Accura MK4
Multifunction Precision Machine, plus numerous accessories, that needs a new
home in order to make room for a new lathe. If anyone out there is
interested, please contact me "off-list" for further information at,
sheldondog@...

Thanks all. I haven't really had a chance to participate much, but I have
learned TONS from just reading the many great posts to this list. Keep up
the great work!!!


Cort
"Just Makin' Sawdust"
Re: Speaking of mini-machines...

Joel Cohen
 

John,

That would be great!!! They are going to bring one to the Va. Show in the
brginning of March for me to play with.

Thanks for the response.

New baby sooon????


Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: John Renzetti [SMTP:J.Renzetti@...]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:43 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Speaking of
mini-machines...

Joel, Advanced Machinery Imports that sells the Hegners is right
near the
New Castle County airport where our plane is based. Do you want me
to check
it out for you. I know a couple of the people over there.
Take care,
John Renzetti
----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:29 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Speaking of mini-machines...


> Geoff,
>
> I may be interested in buying a Mark IV. Do you know anything
about the
one
> that is for sale (condition, price, options, etc)?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joel (703-323-0919, x418) jcohen@...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:28 PM
> To: felder-woodworking@...
> Subject: [felder-woodworking] Speaking of mini-machines...
>
> We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now
I
> remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark
IV
> combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing
> small
> scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I
> recall
> correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to
> make
> room for a new lathe.
>
> ..Geoff
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
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Re: Speaking of mini-machines...

John Renzetti
 

Joel, Advanced Machinery Imports that sells the Hegners is right near the
New Castle County airport where our plane is based. Do you want me to check
it out for you. I know a couple of the people over there.
Take care,
John Renzetti

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:29 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Speaking of mini-machines...


Geoff,

I may be interested in buying a Mark IV. Do you know anything about the
one
that is for sale (condition, price, options, etc)?

Thanks,

Joel (703-323-0919, x418) jcohen@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:28 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Speaking of mini-machines...

We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now I
remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark IV
combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing
small
scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I
recall
correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to
make
room for a new lathe.

..Geoff




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Re: Speaking of mini-machines...

Joel Cohen
 

Geoff,

I may be interested in buying a Mark IV. Do you know anything about the one
that is for sale (condition, price, options, etc)?

Thanks,

Joel (703-323-0919, x418) jcohen@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:28 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Speaking of mini-machines...

We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now I
remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark IV
combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing
small
scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I
recall
correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to
make
room for a new lathe.

..Geoff




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Speaking of mini-machines...

Geoff Shepherd
 

We were talking about Joel's Preac machines a little bit ago. Now I
remember what I saw at the ww show - it was a Hegner Accura Mark IV
combination machine. Looked like a tiny little Felder for doing small
scale precision work, complete with a little sliding table if I recall
correctly. I know of someone looking to sell one of these in CA to make
room for a new lathe.

..Geoff
Re: 3-ph current draw results

Geoff Shepherd
 

Charlie,

I think I left out a bit of info... my two-pole quick-disconnect supplies
single-phase power both to the converter as well as contributes two hot legs
to the machines. The third leg comes from the converter and joins the
original two hot legs. Shutting off the QD cuts all power to the converter
and machines simultaneously (no chance of single phase going to the machines
unless the converter failed). In other words, as I was measuring at the
quick-disconnect, I was measuring the combined load of the phase converter
and the powered machine(s). Check out John Renzetti's three-phase wiring
diagram in the group Vault, it's what I have done for now:

,%20News,%20and%2
0Reviews/Technical%20Information/3-Phase%20Wiring%20Diagram%20-%20J%20Renzet
ti.gif

(yow, that's long... you might have to cut'n'paste if it doesn't work)

At some point, I may do a fancier set up with a three-phase load center so I
can do the automatic dust collector thing.

So, last night I got my second receptacle installed and measured the
combined load of the phase converter, AF-22LN, and BF6-31. That came out to
about 10.5A at the quick-disconnect. I imagine it should be a bit more when
the BF6-31 is doing some actual work such as planing 12" wide stock (I'll
take that measurement too, just for completeness).

I think John's phase converter (same model I have) is cooler running than
mine - it uses only a couple amps at idle. Since mine uses about four amps
at idle, it does act as a small room heater - can't complain this time of
year. The future in phase conversion will probably be these microprocessor
controlled inverting-type systems I keep hearing about. Didn't someone on
this list retrofit a BF7-41 with one of these? I wonder how the efficiency
and cost/benefit ratio is...

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Norton <cnorton@...>
To: <felder-woodworking@...>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 8:16 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: 3-ph current draw results


The 7.0A you measured was the current flowing to the phase converter after
the split between the machine and the converter itself, so this is the
amount of current required to generate the third phase. When you measure
the three phase currents out, you will probably see the difference between
the 7A and the 4.2A idle. I am always surprised at how much power the
converter takes at idle.

I would be curious to see how much current is flowing into each of the 3
phase legs. I wonder if the generated phase current is much different
than
the other two.

Has anyone ever looked at the currents out of the phase converter with a
current probe and an o-scope? Do they maintain anywhere near a 120 degree
phasing between the three phases? Is the phasing dependant on load?
-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2000 10:23 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] 3-ph current draw results


Hi all,

Mainly out of curiosity, today I purchased a basic digital clamp-around
AC
ammeter ($60 Sperry DSA-400) to check the current draw on my Kay
Phasemaster
and Felder machines.

The Phasmaster MA-1's original factory test results from two years ago
show
it should draw at idle 4.6A at 242VAC. My measurements show about 4.2A at
245VAC. Although this meter doesn't have a peak hold function, start up
surge looked to be around 50A over several tests, but I don't know how
accurate it could be in measuring these very brief surges.

Since I only have only one twist-lock receptacle installed at the moment,
I
can only test each machine running by itself. Here are those results as
measured on the single-phase supply to the phase converter:

AF-22 LN 3kW/3ph (3m of 120mm hose connected to saw, 3m of 80mm hose
connected to shaper, and a used but freshly cleaned pleated poly drum
filter):
Starting peak: ~50A
Full power: 7.0A (8A with 120mm hose removed)

BF6-31 2.2kW/3ph (table saw mode w/12" stock blade):
Braking self-test: 4.9A
Starting peak: ~40A
Idling: 4.5A

Remember - these results are with both the subject machine and the phase
converter running. I'm not sure if I should just subtract out the phase
converter idle current to get real values, or if it is more complex than
that.

When I get the second twist-lock recptacle installed, I'll check the
3-phase
voltage balance under load and 1-phase current draw with both the BF6-31
and
the AF-22 LN running simultaneously.

The single-phase amp measurements were taken on each of the two hot legs
inside my 30A quick disconnect to the phase converter. Curiously, there
was
a consistent difference about about 0.2A between the two hot lines. I'm
not
sure what would cause that, but maybe it has to do with the snap-clamp
transformer being proximity sensitive to the metal cabinet, or just the
results of not buying a more expensive meter. In any case, I took the two
measurements and calculated an average.

If I did this incorrectly, please somebody let me know. I'm also not sure
how I should measure the current draw on the 3-phase side. Do I measure
one
leg, two legs, or all three and add/average the results? Not sure...

..Geoff



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Re: 3-ph current draw results

Charlie Norton
 

The 7.0A you measured was the current flowing to the phase converter after
the split between the machine and the converter itself, so this is the
amount of current required to generate the third phase. When you measure
the three phase currents out, you will probably see the difference between
the 7A and the 4.2A idle. I am always surprised at how much power the
converter takes at idle.

I would be curious to see how much current is flowing into each of the 3
phase legs. I wonder if the generated phase current is much different than
the other two.

Has anyone ever looked at the currents out of the phase converter with a
current probe and an o-scope? Do they maintain anywhere near a 120 degree
phasing between the three phases? Is the phasing dependant on load?

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: Sunday, February 20, 2000 10:23 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] 3-ph current draw results


Hi all,

Mainly out of curiosity, today I purchased a basic digital clamp-around AC
ammeter ($60 Sperry DSA-400) to check the current draw on my Kay
Phasemaster
and Felder machines.

The Phasmaster MA-1's original factory test results from two years ago show
it should draw at idle 4.6A at 242VAC. My measurements show about 4.2A at
245VAC. Although this meter doesn't have a peak hold function, start up
surge looked to be around 50A over several tests, but I don't know how
accurate it could be in measuring these very brief surges.

Since I only have only one twist-lock receptacle installed at the moment, I
can only test each machine running by itself. Here are those results as
measured on the single-phase supply to the phase converter:

AF-22 LN 3kW/3ph (3m of 120mm hose connected to saw, 3m of 80mm hose
connected to shaper, and a used but freshly cleaned pleated poly drum
filter):
Starting peak: ~50A
Full power: 7.0A (8A with 120mm hose removed)

BF6-31 2.2kW/3ph (table saw mode w/12" stock blade):
Braking self-test: 4.9A
Starting peak: ~40A
Idling: 4.5A

Remember - these results are with both the subject machine and the phase
converter running. I'm not sure if I should just subtract out the phase
converter idle current to get real values, or if it is more complex than
that.

When I get the second twist-lock recptacle installed, I'll check the
3-phase
voltage balance under load and 1-phase current draw with both the BF6-31
and
the AF-22 LN running simultaneously.

The single-phase amp measurements were taken on each of the two hot legs
inside my 30A quick disconnect to the phase converter. Curiously, there was
a consistent difference about about 0.2A between the two hot lines. I'm not
sure what would cause that, but maybe it has to do with the snap-clamp
transformer being proximity sensitive to the metal cabinet, or just the
results of not buying a more expensive meter. In any case, I took the two
measurements and calculated an average.

If I did this incorrectly, please somebody let me know. I'm also not sure
how I should measure the current draw on the 3-phase side. Do I measure one
leg, two legs, or all three and add/average the results? Not sure...

..Geoff



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To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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3-ph current draw results

Geoff Shepherd
 

Hi all,

Mainly out of curiosity, today I purchased a basic digital clamp-around AC
ammeter ($60 Sperry DSA-400) to check the current draw on my Kay Phasemaster
and Felder machines.

The Phasmaster MA-1's original factory test results from two years ago show
it should draw at idle 4.6A at 242VAC. My measurements show about 4.2A at
245VAC. Although this meter doesn't have a peak hold function, start up
surge looked to be around 50A over several tests, but I don't know how
accurate it could be in measuring these very brief surges.

Since I only have only one twist-lock receptacle installed at the moment, I
can only test each machine running by itself. Here are those results as
measured on the single-phase supply to the phase converter:

AF-22 LN 3kW/3ph (3m of 120mm hose connected to saw, 3m of 80mm hose
connected to shaper, and a used but freshly cleaned pleated poly drum
filter):
Starting peak: ~50A
Full power: 7.0A (8A with 120mm hose removed)

BF6-31 2.2kW/3ph (table saw mode w/12" stock blade):
Braking self-test: 4.9A
Starting peak: ~40A
Idling: 4.5A

Remember - these results are with both the subject machine and the phase
converter running. I'm not sure if I should just subtract out the phase
converter idle current to get real values, or if it is more complex than
that.

When I get the second twist-lock recptacle installed, I'll check the 3-phase
voltage balance under load and 1-phase current draw with both the BF6-31 and
the AF-22 LN running simultaneously.

The single-phase amp measurements were taken on each of the two hot legs
inside my 30A quick disconnect to the phase converter. Curiously, there was
a consistent difference about about 0.2A between the two hot lines. I'm not
sure what would cause that, but maybe it has to do with the snap-clamp
transformer being proximity sensitive to the metal cabinet, or just the
results of not buying a more expensive meter. In any case, I took the two
measurements and calculated an average.

If I did this incorrectly, please somebody let me know. I'm also not sure
how I should measure the current draw on the 3-phase side. Do I measure one
leg, two legs, or all three and add/average the results? Not sure...

..Geoff
Re: Vault reorganized

Geoff Shepherd
 

Scott - Thanks for taking the time to help organize the Vault... the
Articles section was getting pretty jumbled together, especially with
all the varying file formats.

I agree, HTML is an excellent format to upload artices with, and is
even better than plain text since formatting is preserved and words
reliably wrap. As you suggest, most modern word processors can Export
or Save As HTML/Web format.

Another alternative is to learn the rudimentaries of HTML and write
articles in a plain text editor such as Windows Notepad or MacOS's
SimpleText. That is what I ususally do, but then I'm a software
developer by day and sometimes like doing things the "old" way! ;-) I
guess doing it that way is like using hand tools, but as is often said,
I get more control over the final results (can't vouch for "connecting
with" the bits and bytes though).

I'm very pleased with how our new forum is going! Many thanks to
everyone involved!

--
Geoff Shepherd
(group manager)
140601 - 140620 of 140712