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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
Dan, ? I echo Joe's comment excellent writeup.? Making one of these is outside my comfort zone but well within my son's zone as he's a EE major at Louisiana Tech.? What would you say the cost is to build one of these? Thanks, Dave On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 11:33 AM, Bellsouth dohertyj@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868 |
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Re: Hello all,
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýHi Glen,I am a hobbyist woodworker with a good bit of Felder equipment. ?As I have accumulated machines, put them to use, and replaced a couple, some of the ¡°less important¡± things have become more important to me. ?A couple of for instances. ?I have a Profil 45 x motion shaper. ?At the time I purchased it, there was no real discussion about variable speed drive. ?If I had it to go over, that would be on my shopping list. ?I would not buy the Felder power feeders again. ?The Co-Matic with stand is much more user friendly and roughly the same price. ?The Dual 51 with Digi-drive and silent power is a very good machine. ?At the time of purchase, I thought investing in separate machines was just too much money. ?Now I¡¯m not so sure. ?I do know that at my age and stage, I would at least ?purchase the power lift on the joiner table. ?I¡¯ll repeat what has been said many ?times: ?Mac¡¯s pneumatic clamps are a must. ?The sliding table saw is infinitely more usable and safer with the clamps. ?One other suggestion. ?Over the past year I have spent a total of 10 days in Joe Calhoun¡¯s shop in Ouray, Colorado. ?It has been time well spent. ?Joe has a shop full of Martin equipment. These are just a few things I thought about as I was working in the shop this morning. ? Best wishes with the new adventure. Gary ?
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
Cliff
For those who don't wish to learn the skill of hand planing Consider building a Router Bridge.
It is a scalable piece of shop built gear that can take a variety of forms A nice thing about a router bridge is that you can secure the wood from below or the sides with screws, glue, tape, or vacuum. I've considered a slab table in the past and wondered about wood movement over time. |
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Re: See the new dust collector?
Hi guys. This is just to share some broad brush thoughts re. the recent discussions regarding dust filter efficiencies/HEPA/MERV/ and workplace expose limits (WEL)/room air quality. Thought it might be interesting to take a stab at creating some context... (1) In woodworking the ¡®system¡¯ (the combination of the woodworking machine, how it¡¯s set up and the hooding solution) is highly variable.? Depending on the job and how well the hooding and dust collection work in the given situation we can go from highly efficient dust collection (cuts in sheet goods with the top guard down tight on the work), to scenarios where huge amounts of dust are thrown out into the shop air. (e.g. on an open sided 45 deg through saw cut where the top guard can¡¯t catch the dust thrown from the top of the blade) Industrial applications/machines may even utilise largely sealed enclosures with built in extraction. This variety is presumably why worldwide workplace health and safety standards have chosen to leave it largely down to users to sort out their dust collection methods, and instead converged to define acceptable work environments in the form of air cleanliness/workplace exposure limits. (the soon to be tightened further 5mg/m3 average over 8hrs limit) Particle size is a big factor in determining the likely health impact of airborne dust, but in the above scenario you get what the process produces. i.e. we don¡¯t have the ability to preferentially capture say the smaller particles, so defining limits at differing particle sizes will only in some cases be useful. (2) Our focus on filter performance (HEPA/MERV ratings etc) is arguably a result of the fact that we¡¯re a niche application - most of us work in domestic/home workshop/urban contexts.? We for reasons to do with comfort/local laws preventing dust discharge/heating or using stand alone/non-ducted dust collection solutions need to recirculate our airflow. Filtration standards also become important when we introduce machine like mobile dust collectors or hand tools that recycle the air they use to collect dust.? Commercial wood working shops typically exhaust their dust collection airflow outdoors following basic separation of solids in a cyclone.? The non-professional woodworking dust systems market has exploited the fact that this niche is unregulated - by offering for many years the often discussed ¡®dust recirculation systems¡¯. One result of using cheap and ineffective filtration. Even the high end filtration standards we see offered in woodworking today were not really developed with woodworking in mind. (see (3) below) Either way (see (1) above) good filtration of the return air is of itself no guarantee of clean air in traditional machine based woodworking. Given efficient filtration high CFM is advisable too - not just to improve collection, but also to speed up the recycle and cleaning rate of escaped dust from the shop air. Much below 5 mcrons dust it seems is invisible by the way, so relying on sunlight etc. to detect it isn't much help. Dust isn't healthy in any form, but it's somewhere down around 1 micron that our elimination processes become unable to remove it - and it becomes capable of absorbtion through membranes etc. (see chronic immune issues (4) below) ? (3) Filtration standards are a minefield - far beyond my knowledge to give a thorough overview.? They developed independently in multiple countries and industries, and in multiple application scenarios. e.g. capturing potentially radioactive particles in the nuclear industry (the origin of HEPA etc), vacuum cleaners, construction equipment, mobile dust collection units, air conditioning, clean rooms and medical scenarios (capture of bacteria and allergens like pollen) to name a few. The various standards are not necessarily comparable since test and measurement methods (aerosol liquid versus solid particles, particle counts vs counts via optical effects vs¡.) ?and requirements/objectives consequently vary widely. They have nevertheless been adopted (sometimes cherry picked) for use in woodworking applications. ASHRAE has historically been active in setting medically determined filtration standards the US, the German BIA (employer liability insurer¡¯s association) via the ZH1/487 system of standards in Europe. Most developments in the standards field these days come from Germany (probably the major progressive and non military industrial manufacturing nation), get adopted as EU standards, and may then on occasion become the basis of global standards. There¡¯s lots happening - both in the form of more specialised industry/application focused standards, and efforts at harmonising at least similar groups of standards globally. e.g. http://www.filtnews.com/featured-articles/iso-29463-a-global-standard-for-hepa-and-ulpa-filters/ It¡¯s not going to bottom out any time soon it seems, and is a highly specialised topic - but for practical purposes it seems like we need filtration to at least ASHRAE 52.2 MERV 15 ?rating (and no doubt this is a moving target that will tighten with time) if recirculating our air:?http://www2.donaldson.com/torit/en-us/pages/products/ultra-webmediatechnology.aspx More on MERV ratings:?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_efficiency_reporting_value HEPA filters are a bit of an odd one, and probably not as simple a matter as the marketing we see might suggest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA ?They were developed for nuclear applications where trapping and retaining all particles down to a specified size is important. HEPA is often discussed as though it was about straining out particles (e.g. catching ?99.97% of particles down to 0.3 micron size), but that masks many complexities. The HEPA system has in Europe been developed on under Euro norm?EN 1822:2009 Euro HEPA ratings get complicated, in that the efficiency numbers for a given filter (see the link above - there¡¯s a wholes series of HEPA and similar ratings within it) are quoted based on the MPPS or at the particle size that most material gets passed through it at. So checking of the specific filter is needed to establish what the associated MPPS is. HEPA filters don¡¯t actually much strain out small particles at all - they rely on mechanisms like diffusion, attraction and ¡®sticky¡¯ fibres to trap particles which are so small that they don¡¯t really behave like separate objects falling through the air.? The particles are typically much smaller than the gaps between the fibres. It seems likely too that some filters are designed to capture specific compounds, and not just particles in general. For reasons like these it may also be that many HEPA filters for example aren¡¯t necessarily cleanable in any meaningful sense.... (?) Even if you can shake or blow the particles free, the question has to be asked how healthy this task is. Many may well be meant for disposal once dirty.... (4) The underlying medical standards are another minefield.? Most of us have discovered that wood dusts (especially hardwoods and tropicals) can be highly irritating. Some have discovered that they can trigger serious immune reactions, and other health problems caused by our lungs and respiratory tract getting clogged up with dust. There¡¯s also in the background the emerging acceptance that almost all of the degenerative diseases that kill us (heart, stroke, dementia, depression, auto immune stuff like multiple sclerosis, lupus, cancers, blood pressure, gut dysfunctions etc) have their origins in chronic and long term low level immune disturbance (which brings diet, farming, medical and manufacturing practices and the living environment into consideration of the cumulative effect on our immune systems too) The trouble is that we generally only become aware that we have these diseases when we fall seriously ill... Most of the medical data seems to have come from historical industry studies - by definition relating to people that were working potentially many years ago. It¡¯s clear that wood dust causes nasal cancers, but beyond that (e.g. the above) while a definite reality it¡¯s likely a lot less clear. The result is that setting the exposure limits on which the various standards are based has to have involved a fair amount of guesstimation. My own feeling (and health experience) is that as time goes on we will discover that even very moderate exposures (re the chronic immune disturbance issue) matter, and that we¡¯ll see ever tightening standards. Objective scientific proof won¡¯t always be an option though (which leaves a lot of latitude for the nay sayers and self serving vested interests to block measures), so as long we remain an unregulated niche it'll be a case of you pays your money and takes your pick.? Better safe than sorry... ian |
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Re: New C3-41 owner
There is an option from Very Super Cool Tools . They have A Euro style fence, but you'll need a Biesmeyer style rail. They do have instructions on there site on how to diy a rail. Jay
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Re: Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýDan,This is a great write up! ?Thanks for sharing. John Ferandin and I have been talking about a similar system for awhile but using a PLC rather than an Arduino. I really like your pigtail device for testing current. ?I have most of my shop set up with 30 amp three phase plugs and it would be easy to make a pigtail for testing current most of my machines. Joe in New Orleans
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New C3-41 owner
Hello all. ?Just bought a C3-41 (1999) and really like everything but the fence . ?The tightening screw is immovable. ?I would like to fix/replace mine and would appreciate hearing what my options would be. ?I searched and saw the unifence option. ?Are there others? ? Thank you so much. ?I need some help. Dan Thank you? |
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Automatic Dust Collector & Blast Gate Controller
I just posted a file describing a new device which controls a dust collector and blast gate when machine is turned on/off. ? This past spring I purchased a Felder KF700S sliding table saw and shaper combo. ?I also installed Nordfab ducting to the machine which included an automatic blast gate at ceiling height.? My dust collector is an Oneida Smart Pro 5HP unit with an RF remote.? In my small one person shop, the dust collector does not run continuously ¨C only when machines are producing chips. ? I wanted the dust collector to turn on automatically whenever I turned on the saw.? The blast gate must open at the same time.? When I turned the saw off, the collector would run for a programmable number of seconds before turning off and then closing the blast gate.? I wanted the dust collector to turn on via RF as I did not want to run wiring or disable my current RF remotes. Check out the unit in operation at?? Dan Schmidt |
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New file uploaded to felder-woodworking
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the felder-woodworking group. File : /FOG made products/DC & Blast Gate Controller.pdf Uploaded by : dschmid4 <dschmid4@...> Description : Automatic Dust Collector and Blast Gate Controller by Schmidt Woodworks, LLC. You can access this file at the URL: To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: Regards, dschmid4 <dschmid4@...> |
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Re: Blades for K700S
George, If I could only have one blade it would be a rip blade ! When I make a bespoke kitchen I would generally use the rip blade in the saw in conjunction with a scoring blade for the complete project, ?I use a felder silent power blade. IMHO is perfect for cross cutting, cutting up plywood. ?Im over in Spain where we dont have much choice in plywoods,I genaraly use a marine ply which when cut with universal blades or fine tooth blades burns the ply very quickly. Ive even cut up melamine faced boards using a rip blade blade in conjunction with a scoreing blade with good results. Ive no experiance with Leitz blades so cant coment, I did try talking to Leitz Spain but they there not intrested in my buisness, I run a one man shop generally making bespoke furniture so I guess they could not be bothed with me. I have a few CMT blades, there prices are good over here,and there service, there quality is not as good as Felder IMHO. I Agree with what others have said, you saw should be complete with blades, Would we buy a car without wheels? ? On 2 December 2016 at 21:43, 'david@bestservices IMAP 2' david@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup
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Jonathan Samways |
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Re: "Felder Unofficial Survival Guide book"
I'm still looking for one as well.? CafePress stopped doing print on demand books, so it's no longer available.? I heard from one person on this list when I asked about buying a used one, but I haven't heard back him (I'm still hoping).
I keep hoping that David would consider making it available on a "print-on-demand" site like blurb.? (http://www.blurb.com).? It looks like there are no upfront fees, and it seems there are a bunch of us that still want to buy a copy. (Please please please!) David has been incredible gracious in answering my email questions (thanks!), and has some excellent content on his flicker pages.? That said, I'm a bibliophile.? That's the reason I got into woodworking in the first place:? to make bookshelves.? As a young newly wed I was making wall-to-wall shelving out of old skids using a howling sidewinder and a beltsander to make the planks a little less fuzzy.? Being able to sit in front of a machine with a well-written manual has been invaluable to me.? Wally Kunkel's book on the old DeWalt Radial Saws helped me master them and get my machines cutting within a few thousands of perfect.? (http://www.blurb.com/sell-through-blurb).? Similarly, I reread Michael Fortune's article in FWW on tuning the bandsaw any time I need to adjust mine. I get the impression that David's book provides the same level of insight for the Felder sliders. |
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Re: "Felder Unofficial Survival Guide book"
GLEN
Yes I need one to.
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Glen -----Original Message----- From: Jay Runde jrunde@... [felder-woodworking] To: felder-woodworking Sent: Fri, Dec 2, 2016 6:14 pm Subject: [felder-woodworking] "Felder Unofficial Survival Guide book"
?
And where do you get the "Felder Unofficial Survival Guide book" at?
Jay
On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:21 AM, David Davies myfinishingtouch@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
Adam,? You've got a LN #7 but you are worthless with a plane? That's sad. Maybe the time to get familiar... I do this work all the time. My advice depends on the relative straight ness and flatness of your material. If you don't have too far to go to flat, the plane, powered or otherwise will do wonders. I use the 4" Makita power planer to take down high spots all the time. I go diagonally, from two directions checking often ?with 4' straight edge or level. Get it close and take it to the shop with the wide belt sander. If your wood is really cupped or twisted, I'd recommend the router sled route, or find a CNC shop. The program they use for machining their spoil board works great on slabs. You may need to shim it into a level ish condition splitting the difference between high and low spots.? I often do this with shorter slabs less than 37" wide and just run them through my sander which has a long conveyor bed. I'd forget the domino's. Unless you use a long setting glue they will be more trouble than benefit. I'd be happy to chat if you want. Good luck Jason Jason Holtz J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406 612.432.2765 |
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýTake a crayon and mark out your parts . Cut all parts a little oversized. straighten an edge and rough rip than with The parts manageable than edge one side , face , size and than rip to desired width than joint final edge than glue up.? Mac ,,? martin/campshure/co/llc 608-824-0023?fax Designing and building for 47 years On Dec 2, 2016, at 6:33 PM, John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýYou have to look at each slab and see if there is twist or a bow lengthwise. A flat surface always helps even if it's the floor but an elevated surface would be better. That will give you an indication how much material has to be removed. In ?my experience with 8/4 walnut slabs I have processed 3/8 to 1/2" is common to remove. ?I always joint with the crown up. You may find that a knock down of corners with a hand plane helps if you have a twist. Doesn't have to be fancy just enough to help make it stable. I don't think a powerfeeder would much help and you won't need a torsion box, that's why you have a j/p. Like I said in the first post it would be handy to have a helper, you control the piece going over the cutter with the other person helping support and a little pushing power.? John JMK Services? -------- Original message --------
From: "adam@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-02 7:54 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs ? ---In felder-woodworking@..., <jmkserv@...> wrote : > Are the slabs reasonably flat? Do you have a parallel guide for your saw? What is the length of your slider?? > I would think that if you can rip your pieces to something around 15 1/2" wide your j/p is more then adequate to process the slabs to an equal thickness. You may need a helper but this is something that can be easily done.? Hi John. The slider is 9'. I don't have parallel guides yet but this would be a good excuse to buy some from Brian. The slabs are reasonably flat. And assuming I can fit them through the planer, I'm not super worried about thicknessing. But jointing is another thing altogether. For example, how should I maneuver the pieces across the cutterhead to ensure that I am actually flattening? I have a power feeder on the saw that I could extend to the jointer; if I simply position the wheels over the outfeed bed, should I run the board crown up, or crown down? If the latter I assume I have to shim but am not clear how to do that.?Does the plan change if the board is twisted? I guess another option would be to build a torsion box that is 15-1/2" x 108" and run the boards on top of that through the planer. The planer feed beds seem kind of short for that, however. Thanks for your help! /afb |
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
Alan Mix
Adam -
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Since you are using Willamette Valley wood, can I assume you are in Oregon? We are blessed with mills around here that will plane the big slabs for you. You¡¯d still would need to do the final cleanup, but this might get you most of the way there. Have you talked to Goby Walnut in Portland and/or Albany? Zena Forest Products in Salem - Urban Lumber in Springfield - www.urbanlumbercompany.com Kasters in Mulino? Probably others... I haven¡¯t actually done this yet, but planned to do exactly what you are doing. I got a flitch of big live-edge walnut slabs from a colleague here, the rest of the tree after he made a similar large dining table. He had them planed on contract (I think at Zena), then did final smoothing finishing, etc with smaller tools in his (smaller) shop. He said it wasn¡¯t too expensive, and well worth it (assuming you can transport the slabs to the mill). I saw the table and it was dead flat and gorgeous. For the epoxy infill, have you talked to Brent Baker in Corvallis? He has done some interesting crack filling with crushed-stone/epoxy slurries (usually turquoise, lapis, malachite). Photos here: - he¡¯s not the only one doing this, but at least he has the bugs worked out and if you are from Oregon he might be a useful local contact. Not sure how this works out with expansion/contraction later. Good luck¡ Alan Corvallis, OR. On Dec 2, 2016, at 2:50 PM, adam@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
---In felder-woodworking@..., <jmkserv@...> wrote :
> Are the slabs reasonably flat? Do you have a parallel guide for your saw? What is the length of your slider?? > I would think that if you can rip your pieces to something around 15 1/2" wide your j/p is more then adequate to process the slabs to an equal thickness. You may need a helper but this is something that can be easily done.? Hi John. The slider is 9'. I don't have parallel guides yet but this would be a good excuse to buy some from Brian. The slabs are reasonably flat. And assuming I can fit them through the planer, I'm not super worried about thicknessing. But jointing is another thing altogether. For example, how should I maneuver the pieces across the cutterhead to ensure that I am actually flattening? I have a power feeder on the saw that I could extend to the jointer; if I simply position the wheels over the outfeed bed, should I run the board crown up, or crown down? If the latter I assume I have to shim but am not clear how to do that.?Does the plan change if the board is twisted? I guess another option would be to build a torsion box that is 15-1/2" x 108" and run the boards on top of that through the planer. The planer feed beds seem kind of short for that, however. Thanks for your help! /afb |
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Re: About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs
¿ªÔÆÌåÓýAre the slabs reasonably flat? Do you have a parallel guide for your saw? What is the length of your slider?? I would think that if you can rip your pieces to something around 15 1/2" wide your j/p is more then adequate to process the slabs to an equal thickness. You may need a helper but this is something that can be easily done.? John JMK Services? -------- Original message --------
From: "adam@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@...> Date: 2016-12-02 5:50 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@... Subject: [felder-woodworking] About to start large table, worried about flattening slabs ? This question is about practices, since you guys are all way more experienced than me. I hope it isn't inappropriate to ask here; if it is, my apologies. With my shop back up and running with the KF700SP and Minimax FS41ES, I'm ready to start on the dining room table I promised the wife. The table top will be 108" x 42". I purchased three slabs of Willamette Valley (Oregon) black walnut. Two are bookmatched, 8/4 x 168" x 20". The third is also 8/4, about 110" x 16". The pieces are not clear and have significant checks that will need stabilizing. My plan is to use tinted epoxy, though I am open to other options. The edges are also quite rough so I expect to lose at least an inch on each long edge. My plan, such as it is, is to trim 5' from the longer slabs and mill that wood into the pieces I need for aprons and legs. The top will be glued up from the three 9' slabs, with the unmatched slab in the middle. I'll use dominoes to align the edges.? I am concerned about my ability to flatten, square, and glue up these pieces due to their dimensions and weight. Moreover, even ripping the wide slabs down to 16" will put them at the limit of my FS16. I have a couple of options for access to a wide belt sander and/or larger jointer/planer. I have also looked at the creation of a router jig for flattening large slabs, though a) I'm not super excited about building one for a one-time use; b) no longer own a large router; and c) don't have a large flat surface for the base of such a jig. I would be exceptionally grateful for any suggestions (up to and including tough love) for how to best proceed. Thanks in advance ¡ª I've learned a ton from this list in the last year. /afb |
Jason Holtz