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Re: Methods of applying hardwood edging to plywood

 

I have a very simple plywood jig I made for a Bosch colt trim router. I call it he super flusher. This was prior to getting a lipping planer. It uses a short mortising bit, with the router in the vertical orientation as opposed to the jig you printed for your Metabo. Mine still sees some use on surfaces that are too narrow for the big lipping planer.?

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765

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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Good to know Imran, I knew the Hammer series had a DC Break, but had never questioned the Felder series having a regenerative break.

That noted Ty, your first 3? tool is a bit of a gateway drug, leading into a world of other tooling that may require it, so still consider the upgrade.
-Karl
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

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Netanel,

It is the simplest one, DC Injection. Here are common methods in order of increasing complexity:

DC Injection
Dynamic Braking
Regenerative Braking
Plugging

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 21, 2025, at 7:15?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:

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Imran, so what is the break system they use for the 230V machines?
?
anyway, if we are back to the original discussion,
IMHO, the delta between the two models is low enough to go with the larger model and to save the trouble fighting with PP about comparability issues with the “simple” line if they’ll occur. ?The extra amperage (up to 36A) can provide better expandability. [I started with a 5.5kW saw and thought the PTS007 will be sufficient).
I am glad I went with the bigger PP that supports additional 3PH machines I added later on (shaper/BS/J-P)
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Imran, so what is the break system they use for the 230V machines?
?
anyway, if we are back to the original discussion,
IMHO, the delta between the two models is low enough to go with the larger model and to save the trouble fighting with PP about comparability issues with the “simple” line if they’ll occur. ?The extra amperage (up to 36A) can provide better expandability. [I started with a 5.5kW saw and thought the PTS007 will be sufficient).
I am glad I went with the bigger PP that supports additional 3PH machines I added later on (shaper/BS/J-P)
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

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I don’t want to be a nuisance but I dislike misinformation. Felder machines that I am familiar with (Saw, Shaper, Jointer and Planer) do not have regenerative braking and would be surprised if any other Felder machines do.

The reason for simple model possibly not working may be due to this:

After writing above few months ago, I called PP and explained to tech how the Felder brake works. Best we could think of is that the capacitors on the enterprise model can supply the unbalanced current demand from 2 phases during braking without setting error code.

As a side note: In one of the Felder schematics I see a different brake board for 400V machine vs 230V machine. Interestingly the brake board for 400V system applies brake by injecting into all 3 phases. Kindof moot point as there is no 400V simple model, per the website.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 21, 2025, at 5:11?PM, Karl via groups.io <bombamanwa@...> wrote:

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On the PP you will need to go to an Enterprise (PTE) Model, as the Simple doesnt support the regenerative break (see - Model Comparison)

The nameplates are quite conservative, and the jump from a PTE007 to a PTE010 is pretty minor (~$600) and has quite a few happy users (myself included). If you search Phase Perfect here there are numerous discussions on sizing, efficency and the such.

Otherwise, welcome!

-Karl
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

On the PP you will need to go to an Enterprise (PTE) Model, as the Simple doesnt support the regenerative break (see - Model Comparison)

The nameplates are quite conservative, and the jump from a PTE007 to a PTE010 is pretty minor (~$600) and has quite a few happy users (myself included). If you search Phase Perfect here there are numerous discussions on sizing, efficency and the such.

Otherwise, welcome!

-Karl
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

PP told me the Simple version would not support the electronics of my saw. I do not have the comprehension of the issues to know why. I did get the more expensive model, and truly the difference was small compared to the cost of the tool and the installation.?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Hello TY,

There is a consensus that the digital phase converter is better than VFD.
For your question, you should "ignore" the HP rating and look at the amp usage, theoretically the PTS007 should be enough, the the simple line of PP doesn't work well with the electronic break of the machine.
Few months ago, someone bought the PTS007 and he had issues with that model (it enter error state and he needed to reboot the PP)
You should probably want to get the PTE010

P.S.
Can you please add your details to the signature so we will know who we are speaking with?
Re: Any opinions on Nova Viking and Voyager pillar drills?

 

Hey thanks so much Derek!? Beautiful work!

Brian

On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 7:30?PM Derek Cohen via <derekcohen=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Brian
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It dawned on me that you were referring to this table ...
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These bedside tables were finalists for the Australian Wood Review (international) furniture competition in 2023, and published in their magazine about a year ago. The link to this article is here:
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There is a pictorial of the build on my website (I post these builds on a couple of forums to stimulate discussion on design and construction). The three posts dealing with the legs are:
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Hope this helps.
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Regards from Perth
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Derek
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Wow, what a warm welcome.? Thank you all for the quick and thoughtful responses.? I did intend to say 'VFD' earlier, must have been a late night typo.?
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In researching the Phase Perfect, it appears I can get by with smaller breakers on the single phase side, which it good since we've maxxed out our panel.? Now that Im leaning their direction, the question is which unit?? I'd like to stay with the 'Simple' line for cost savings, but Im confused on comparing the ratings between my machine nameplate and the options PP offers.?
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My machine nameplate shows -?
  • V 230.0
  • PH:3
  • HZ:60
  • A:24
  • KW: 7.35? S6-40%
The specs for the PTS are:
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I'm deducing the machine is a 10HP from the 7.35KW rating.? I dont know what S6-40% means.?? From the PP specs the PTS005 appears to barely support the output (7.4kva), but the output amps are low - 18A when I require a max of 24.? Stepping up to the PTS007 appears to exceed both the KVA/KW requirements as well as the output amps.? However it still shows a rated HP of 7.5 which is confusing because that rating is lower than the stated output.
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Simply put, will the PTS007 adequately power my Dual 51?? Are there any other reasons I should step up to the PP Enterprise line instead of the PP Simple?
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Much appreciation for your expertise & input.
Ty
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Re: Methods of applying hardwood edging to plywood

 

Very cool, would love to see it in action.? Looks like with the elongated screw holes it could be made to work with other brands?
Re: Methods of applying hardwood edging to plywood

 

I designed this base for my Metabo trim router.? I've printed it but haven't done a project yet where I've had the opportunity to use it to see if it works.
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Jeff
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Hello Ty,
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We switched from a Kay RPC to a Phase Perfect a couple years ago. ?Primarily because the RPC is 20 years old, and didn’t want to risk a failure at the wrong time. ??
While the PP makes some background noise, once the dust collection/equipment is fired up it’s a non issue. ?We do shut the PP down when doing assembly, and crank up the music….

Mike
M.E. Blake General Contractors?
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

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Hi Ty,

Welcome and congratulations on the new old machine. I have one from 2011 with Tersa head. To your questions:

“single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons”
I assume you meant VFD. VFD has a better regulated output (granted it produces electrical noise) than a RPC but it needs to be integrated into the machine where it is eventually directly connected to the motor. In simple terms, it does not work as a power plant. Load has to be connected to the VFD at power up you cannot switch the load.

RPC and Digital converters can be used as power plants. There are additional options for Phaseperfect (a digital converter) but not relevant here.

I am not sure about your intention with the motor on hand. An option, I imagine is to buy or build a static converter to start that 3 ph motor and use it as a RPC. I built a RPC and these are the basic components but then you need to add capacitors between phases to balance voltage and current. Former is easier than later.

In my case, I built and used a RPC with KF 700 successfully because both motors were identical. Keep in mind that you will not be able to dial in the RPC as good as a commercial one and it will only be dialed in for one machine under one condition, idling. Also, my older KF did not have any sensitive digital circuits. This however is not an electrical concern with a quality RPC that is connected properly rather a matter of convincing Felder that it is not a source of issue when one does arise. I rather not fight that battle.

We have gone thru this discussion here, it seems dozens of time. Most here will go with a digital converter like phaseperfect, especially for a new machine. I think that is wise to avoid issues with Felder.

?I have an older PP 10HP unit. When the fans are running?it is louder than my home built RPC and the frequency of noise is more annoying than the hum of a motor idling ?Many here complain about this so if you are sensitive to noise, PP can be purchased with proper cabinet for exterior installation.

Imran Malik
IAM Wood Creations

On Jan 21, 2025, at 8:35?AM, Ty via groups.io <ty@...> wrote:

single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons
Re: Methods of applying hardwood edging to plywood

 

Like I say Joe, I wouldn't bother most of the time but just depending on circumstances mentioned if it feels like it's worth the time.? I'm trying hard to stay small so only have staff 3 days a week much of the year, and adding 10' of noodley edge banding to bowed plywood on my own just doesn't sound like fun.? Material costs are insignificant, and time is paid for but also minimal as I had the knives ground for zero set so I don't even have to adjust the spindle height or fence to go from male to female.? Even with the added expense of TCT for the female cutters, they probably cost me $0.03/lin. ft so far and lots of life left.??
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I probably used these less than 20% of the time back when I did more cabinets, but the reason I mentioned them here is because the original poster SPECIFICALLY ASKED about V-Groove options. Don't? misinterpret my giving them what they ask for as a broad sweeping recommendation for general practice.
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B
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Re: Zero Clearance for Hammer K3 crosscut fence

 

Steve, that is a much better design than mine! I wish I had a printer ... sigh.
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Regards from Perth
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Derek
Re: Zero Clearance for Hammer K3 crosscut fence

 

My solution looks very much like Derek's first solution as well.? I can't remember if I saw Derek's solution before or after making mine, but the odds are good I saw his first and used that for inspiration.
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There is a 3D printable solution that someone made; I might have found this link via this forum.? I plan on printing this and trying it out after I'm done with my current project.
Re: New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Hi Ty,? welcome to the FOG, I have a 2004 Dual 51, same hp as yours. I use 2 Kay Rotary PCs. 5hp and 7.5.? No issues with start and running. It does have soft start.?
Take care John


On Tue, Jan 21, 2025 at 8:35 AM, Ty
<ty@...> wrote:
Hi all,
?
Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.?
?
Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate, so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ?
?
?
Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational.
Cheers,
Ty
New Dual51 and Felder owner #dual51 #electrical #format4 #jointerplaner #welcome

 

Hi all,
?
Im Ty from Washington.?? We have a wood business in Whidbey Island, WA.? Last week I purchased a Format4 Dual 51 in CA and drove it home this weekend.? The machine was manufactured in 2014.? It has the helical head and 10HP configuration.? The trip was uneventful like I like.? Unload was tricky but smooth.? Ive got to buff out some light rust picked up from the trip.?
?
Now we are on to the electricity question.? Initial research indicates that single phase VHDs are out for both power and power sensitivity reasons.? Rotary seems to be the way to go (please confirm).? We have an unused 30HP idler motor still in crate, so would prefer to put that to work with the right phase converter setup.? Reading over some threads here seem to indicate that the internal motorized controls require tight electrical specifications.? Also would be interested to know if these machines have a soft start as that would be a data point for my phase converter decision. ?
?
?
Anyway, nice to meet you all and very excited to get this machine operational.
Cheers,
Ty
Re: Zero Clearance for Hammer K3 crosscut fence

 

Thanks Derek. Nice explanation of your build. It is very well thought out and relatively simple to build. Thanks for sharing.

Kevin


On Mon, Jan 20, 2025 at 4:03?PM Derek Cohen via <derekcohen=[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Kevin
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The parallel guide was inspired by several, and my build is here: ?
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Hi Brian
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I wish I both owned a printer and had the patience to read its manual to run it. But you are so right - this is an easy operation for a printer.?

Regards from Perth
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Derek
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