Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
We had a Thermador oven in our place for 10 years, before it ¡®crapped¡¯ out. ?The electronic control panel failed. ?Several of my clients had the same issues with Dacor and Viking. ?We now suggest ¡®opening¡¯ the oven door after using it, and avoid using the self cleaning feature.?
A couple of our customers have also cracked their induction tops by accident. ?It¡¯s pretty hard to damage a gas grill top, and it works in a power outage.
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I was going to buy a Blue Star drop in for our new house, but ended up with a 50¡¯s Wedgewood that came out of a remodel. ?Once you use roller shelves in a oven, it¡¯s all over¡
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If you¡¯re building in the NW, ?Eastbank Appliances is a recommended vendor¡
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Mike
M.E. Blake General Contractors?
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Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
I recently did a bunch of induction cooktop research.?? With your high budget, I would likely consider a couple of the Cooktek commercial drop-in induction burners:
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A single Cooktek burner requires either 2500 or 3500 watts (which means 4 burners will need 240V AC circuit capable of 10,000 to 14,000 watts - essentially a 240V 60A circuit).
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One of the specified characteristics is "even heat distribution across bottom of cookware".? This means that the induction coil is a pretty large size.?? It is not commonly known that most consumer level induction coils are only 4" and the commercial coils are usually only 6".?? Based on these prices and pics, I'm thinking the Cooktek are upwards of 8" or so:
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Gas and Induction ranges behave differently and require slightly different cooking techniques.? I'm not saying one is better than the other, just different.? Obviously, induction requires a steel composition pan.? It won't work at all with aluminum pans.
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Adding a Cooktek video that shows their induction coils are actually very large and very dense (with no gaps in the copper induction coil).? This really ensures even heat across the entire bottom of the pan:
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-Aaron Inami
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Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
Not appliance-related but it is kitchen-related: we put no doors in the lowers. All base units have drawers, so no bending or squatting to get something out of the back of a low cabinet.
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That does require using better hardware, as you¡¯ll wind up loading some of those drawers pretty heavily. My builder used undermount hardware by Gras, and they are really disappointing.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
I have had two induction cooktops, both the GE four-element versions. I have looked at other options, like the Wolf, but liked the GE better for two reasons: (1) the GE has a smooth top and the Wolf seemed to be textured. The GE was available without a trim piece around the edge, which makes cleanup easier. (2) The GE controls step from 1/2 to 9 1/2 by 1/2 increments, where the Wolf had fewer steps. That is a big deal for me when controlling a simmer or keeping a pot of spuds from boiling over.
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The GE was available in a four-element model and a five-element model. Very rarely I do wish I had one more element!
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This was 10 years ago, so products may have changed.
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We sure love the induction cooktops. Fast, controllable, and clean.
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One of the features we were almost forced into with the first installation was putting the cooktop some distance from the oven. It was a minor remodel, and that solved an awkward relationship between the sink and the cooktop. Turned out to be an excellent choice, and we did that again when we built our current house. Cooking and baking are two separate activities, so separating them is quite convenient.
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The oven is under the countertop, rather than a wall installation. I like that, particularly for moving things that might spill. Getting a full pie off the counter and straight down into the oven is easier than trying to lift and move sideways, in my opinion.
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
I have a Blue Star range and love it. ?I use the oven all the time. ?I¡¯ve had this one 14 years now and have had zero issues or service needs. ?I particularly like the bearing roller racks when doing cakes and souffl¨¦ - this may be an optional upgrade on the Blue Star (can¡¯t remember). ?It¡¯s a great value compared to the Wolf. ?
I got the range rather than separate cooktop since I do a lot of cooking with the wok and wanted 22,000 BTU burners and the ability to mount the wok properly without the use of a ring. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 31, 2024, at 4:15?PM, David Davies via groups.io <myfinishingtouch@...> wrote:
Way off topic and polling the superior knowledge base of the FOG.? Framing has commenced on our retirement house and now we're needing to decide on kitchen appliances.? Any opinions on high-end kitchen appliances?? We're looking at Thermador Freedom and Wolf induction and possibly Blue Star or Wolf wall ovens.
Thanks
Dave Davies
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Re: Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
I was looking at Blue Star when I rebuilt my kitchen.? Despite the fact that they are manufactured literally within a stone's throw of me, I was told there was no one to service their products here and it was strongly recommended I buy GE Monogram instead.? I did, and regret it.? If you have someone capable of servicing within a reasonable distance or are comfortable doing so, I'd go with Blue Star.? I have a Thermador gas cooktop, which I love.? I have been using their rangetops since I originally learned to cook as a 9 year old, 60+ years ago.??
I have no experience with Wolf products other than in industrial kitchens.? I have personally previously had Dacor which I liked a lot.? Jeff
On Tue, Dec 31, 2024 at 7:15?PM David Davies via <myfinishingtouch= [email protected]> wrote: Way off topic and polling the superior knowledge base of the FOG.? Framing has commenced on our retirement house and now we're needing to decide on kitchen appliances.? Any opinions on high-end kitchen appliances?? We're looking at Thermador Freedom and Wolf induction and possibly Blue Star or Wolf wall ovens.
Thanks
Dave Davies
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
I thank the Group for this informative discussion.
¡ not my intent to hijack the thread¡
Primarily,?I use my AD951 for ¡®face¡¯ and thickness planing, and am less confident of its jointer function¡ I view the machine as having three functions, not two.
?To be fair, I¡¯ve never had the machine calibrated, and have always wondered how it could retain calibration (2 massive tables that can move?independent of each other, and both moving relative to the cutterhead). Even if you are careful when changing functions, the tables are subject to many stresses, bumps and bangs.
I go through this as a justification for separates. You may need 20¡± for planing, but not jointing.
My apologies if I¡¯ve taken an inappropriate liberty with the thread.
On Tuesday, December 31, 2024, 00:05, David P. Best via groups.io <dbestworkshop@...> wrote: I¡¯ve never gotten anything free from Felder either. ?So I made my own T-shirt. ?
There is also this variety. ?LOL
You can get these, and stickers for your tape measure, machine sides, and laptop??. ? ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
On Dec 30, 2024, at 7:23?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
I only got a hat and a pen from Felder.
Nothing from SCM.
I think I¡¯ll refuse to pick up the machine until I¡¯ll get a shirt + flashlight + tape measurement.
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I also ordered a bandsaw from them (S640P 3PH).
I think it is time to book a room for AWFS (at least this one is at driving distance)
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Mike D.
Annapolis, MD
AD951; K700S; N4400
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Double Electric Wall Ovens & Induction Cooktops
Way off topic and polling the superior knowledge base of the FOG.? Framing has commenced on our retirement house and now we're needing to decide on kitchen appliances.? Any opinions on high-end kitchen appliances?? We're looking at Thermador Freedom and Wolf induction and possibly Blue Star or Wolf wall ovens.
Thanks
Dave Davies
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Michael, I have send you a DM about this.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 31, 2024, at 3:25?PM, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote:
[Edited Message Follows]
On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 09:06 PM, David P. Best wrote:
I also have a walk-behind stacker
David, I've been considering getting something similar.? I'm curious what lessons, if any, you've learned from having this?? In particular, any thoughts on the virtues of this design versus a "straddle" stacker that has the support legs more widely splayed out than the lifting forks?
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-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
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On Fri, May 26, 2023 at 09:06 PM, David P. Best wrote:
I also have a walk-behind stacker
David, I've been considering getting something similar.? I'm curious what lessons, if any, you've learned from having this?? In particular, any thoughts on the virtues of this design versus a "straddle" stacker that has the support legs more widely splayed out than the lifting forks?
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-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
Larry,?
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I had the A951L for a short time. It was a nice jointer, very stable and easy to work with. I bought it with the intention of having separate machines, only to realize that my small shop requires a combination machine. If I had the space, I wouldn't hesitate to get another A 951L, or one of the SCM jointers. If you want to mount a power feed on a jointer, the A 951L is the least expensive Felder jointer with a power feed bracket as a standard option. I believe the power feed bracket from Shop Gear Inc can be mounted on the 16" and 20" SCM jointers.?
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Jim, that's strange SCM only has single phase FS-52es machines in stock at the moment, do they have a there phase machine in transit?
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I opted for a 20" machine because I regularly find myself processing doors and windows with arch-/round-/elliptical- tops, which sometimes struggled to feed through my Hammer A3-41. If I didn't need to account for these curved parts I would have opted for a 16" machine to save cost and space. Based on my experience with the FS-52es, I wouldn't hesitate to order a FS-41es, preferably three phase with a Tersa head.?
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Remember, the SCM company line is that they only ship jointers to North America with a "pork chop" guard (though I see PK's FS-7 shipped with a Euro guard). On my FS-52es, the spring wasn't sufficient to swing the guard closed in many applications, so I opted to add a Suvamatic guard. If you want to pursue that option I'm happy to share more info.?
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Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
I¡¯ve never gotten anything free from Felder either. ?So I made my own T-shirt. ?
There is also this variety. ?LOL
You can get these, and stickers for your tape measure, machine sides, and laptop??. ? ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 30, 2024, at 7:23?PM, netanel.belgazal via groups.io <netanel.belgazal@...> wrote:
I only got a hat and a pen from Felder.
Nothing from SCM.
I think I¡¯ll refuse to pick up the machine until I¡¯ll get a shirt + flashlight + tape measurement.
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I also ordered a bandsaw from them (S640P 3PH).
I think it is time to book a room for AWFS (at least this one is at driving distance)
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
Jim, I sent you two DM¡¯s on this topic including links. ?I would strongly suggest you consider whether you really need 20-inch capacity. ?The smaller AD941 would be a much more reliable machine IMO. ?If you do honestly need 20-inch capacity and want to say in the Felder tent, then give serious consideration to separates such as the A951L jointer in combination with a D951 planer. ?If you don¡¯t have the room, butt still insist on 20-inch capacity, I recommend you seriously consider the SCM machines.
The chassis on the Dual 51 has been expanded and beefed up in the latest release, and the table elevation mechanism requires less effort. ?But the design of the table elevation and hinge mechanism has not changed and the issues with table alignment remain a concern. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 30, 2024, at 5:27?PM, Jim Synyard via groups.io <Jimsynyard@...> wrote:
I did talk to Sam today, They have a couple of the FS-52es's in stock but they are single phase with the smaller motor. I am considering still going with that or going to the smaller FS-41es. The Fs 41es is hard to beat that for the money. I did get prices on the felders Seperates, D963, Exact 63 and the A951L. Just confuses me more, lol.?
Thanks again for the information. Do you think the newer Dual 51's have inproved over the older version in both set up time and the issues with the bed calibration? ? The one I am looking at is the loaded version with the digi drive and seg rollers. I am indeed of something quick, I did find a SCM 630 with xylent head and a nova 520 if I wanted to go seperates. I love the idea of the space savings offered with the Dual 51 but don't want to regret buying it. I am currently a one man shop but process a fair share of rough cut.?
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
I only got a hat and a pen from Felder.
Nothing from SCM.
I think I¡¯ll refuse to pick up the machine until I¡¯ll get a shirt + flashlight + tape measurement.
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I also ordered a bandsaw from them (S640P 3PH).
I think it is time to book a room for AWFS (at least this one is at driving distance)
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
Natanel,
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- Two shirts
- Four insulated cups including a large Stanley one
- Wireless cell phone charger
- two pairs of safety glasses
- pop socket
- A banner
- two flashlights
- Usb Drives
- a tape measure...
- A bunch of pens
- stickers etc...
You gotta work em at IWF and AWFS!
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Felder need to up their game on the give aways!
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PK
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
Wait, you got a tape measure from SCM.
Now I need to ask for one
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
Lucky,
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Going to keep the Ready 3 video the same.
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New main video is up:
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My quality control was not to hot for that one - I must have been up late reading the forum.
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P.S. the old one will work from a link only - set to private.
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PK?
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
I did talk to Sam today, They have a couple of the FS-52es's in stock but they are single phase with the smaller motor. I am considering still going with that or going to the smaller FS-41es. The Fs 41es is hard to beat that for the money. I did get prices on the felders Seperates, D963, Exact 63 and the A951L. Just confuses me more, lol.?
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
I remember I saw someone who has the A951L here
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Re: Looking at FELDER Dual 51
When looking at separates, the space-saving fence on the A951L seems really appealing for a smaller shop (I'm wondering about this myself). I don't know if anyone here has any direct experience with that machine though.
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Larry Long Neck
Just a noob trying to learn the ways of wood
> Making youtube videos now!
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David P. Best
Jeff
Tom Gensmer
PK
Jim Synyard
Larry Long Neck