Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Thank you for the replies...John and Imran, great suggestions and simple and should do the trick!? Am going to try this method along with the BS or rough cut on the slider and then finishing on the JP.
?
?
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Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
I use the same method as Imran. John love you Gizmo! thanks for sharing.
Hullo all- very informative thread, thanks to all the contributors! I learn a lot here.
I recall one member posting that they precisely cut a square of MDF, set it against the left fence, and now you have a registration surface for ripping narrower pieces. (Can clamp the mdf to the outrigger so it doesn¡¯t shift). I made one of 3/4¡±, 500mm square, so I can use the flip stop to set rip width by adding 500. Works really well and as long as the two ¡®good¡¯ sides touch nothing else, has stayed true for a lot of use. Costs nothing :-)
Cheers
--
Daniel Day
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener informaci¨®n privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilizaci¨®n, divulgaci¨®n y/o copia sin autorizaci¨®n est¨¢ prohibida en virtud de la legislaci¨®n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v¨ªa y proceda a su destrucci¨®n. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
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How do I make this molding
I know how to achieve everything but the shallow groove between notches. Any ideas?
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Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Hullo all- very informative thread, thanks to all the contributors! I learn a lot here.
I recall one member posting that they precisely cut a square of MDF, set it against the left fence, and now you have a registration surface for ripping narrower pieces. (Can clamp the mdf to the outrigger so it doesn¡¯t shift). I made one of 3/4¡±, 500mm square, so I can use the flip stop to set rip width by adding 500. Works really well and as long as the two ¡®good¡¯ sides touch nothing else, has stayed true for a lot of use. Costs nothing :-)
Cheers
--
Daniel Day
Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
|
Hi all,
?
I recently got second hand RL200 too and yes, it warms up a bit, but probably like you Bryce, here in the UK we are heading for winter months, so it will be a good workshop heater ?
It's a good question, how much is too much¡.
?I suppose, might ask the previous owner if he noticed that too.?
?
Peter
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Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
For Lucky¡¯s overhang method, I just use a block of wood with a pencil mark indicating the cut line. Push block against end of the slider and at least cover the pencil line with material being cut. Quick and easy.
I also installed an overhead laser to assist with the first rip on rough lumber. It used to be overhead on my KF700 and worked great but it is on the wall perpendicular to the saw now for my K975. It is not in line so it casts an oblique line. This means it only works if it is calibrated with same thickness as the mattering cut. On my list of things to fix.
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Show quoted text
On Oct 28, 2024, at 8:58?PM, David Luckensmeyer via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ?
Hi John:
?
You make good points about both the use of a bandsaw and thicknessing on edge. And with regard to the slightly ¡®out of square¡¯ issue. It is very minor like you say, but enough to notice. When it matters (e.g.
for gluing up, joinery work, kumiko, etc.) I will always make two rip cuts. The first cut is slightly wide, and the second cut for that perfect rip where the material does not ride up on the slider.
?
(Yes, yes, I know this is hard on the blade and is probably a bad habit. But it works for me.)
?
There is another technique that I¡¯m not sure has been mentioned much on FOG. I sometimes parallel rip on the slider without a parallel fence by measuring the overhang of material. Here are the steps:
?
- Take any material, clamp it down to the sliding table, and cut it with the blade intended for ripping (e.g. 3.2/2.2 x 30mm).
?
- Do not unclamp the material. Now take a steel ruler or callipers and carefully measure the overhang of material in relation to the right edge of the
sliding table. For my saw, Kappa 400, the overhang is exactly 5.5mm. This is the distance between the right side of the sliding extrusion, and the left edge of my 3.2/2.2mm blade.
?
- Armed with the offset of 5.5mm (or whatever yours is), and with the slider retracted, place the first edge of whatever you¡¯re trying to dimension on
the slider and position it so it overhangs by roughly 5-6mm off the right edge of the sliding table.
?
- Clamp the board in place and use an accurate steel ruler or callipers to measure the offset. If it is less than 5.5mm, then the blade will not cut. If
it is 6mm, then the blade will remove 0.5mm of material. You get the idea (hopefully).
?
- Both ends of the board must be checked to ensure it overhangs by more than 5.5mm. Adjust as needed and reclamp. Make the cut.
?
- If you¡¯re planning on a trim cut only (i.e. not taking off much), make sure to account for any bow in the material. If the bow is outwards or convex,
then the blade will engage at either measured end, and simply take more stock out of the middle (where the bow is largest). But if the bow is inwards or concave, you need to make sure the entire length of material is overhanging the slider by more than 5.5mm.
?
- I do this procedure where I don¡¯t have a lot of width to work with and I want to trim the minimum amount to achieve a straight line rip. If there is
plenty of width, I just eye-ball it. I guess some of us (not me) have a laser and just use that.
?
- If the stock is not too long (e.g. less than 1200mm) I simply set the rip fence and parallel rip in the conventional way. I¡¯m assuming a small sample
size here. It is far less tiring and safer to take the time to set up proper parallel fence/s for repetitive rips for larger jobs.
?
- If the stock is long, say 2-3m, but I only need to rip one, I¡¯ll do some mental arithmetic and do a parallel rip on the basis of the overhang amount.
I can get very close using this method (at least down to 0.2mm). If the board has to be exactly parallel, I always break out Brian¡¯s parallel fence, calibrate it using my magnetic ¡®calibration device¡¯ so that it agrees exactly with my cross-cut fence stop.
And parallel rip that way.
?
Again, I hope this helps.
?
?
Another method for ripping is skipping the circular saw, ripping to slightly over width on a band saw, and running the boards on edge through a thicknesser. That idea has been presented in this group before,
so I do not take credit for it. I struggled with that idea until I acquired a band saw that would make clean and straight cuts.
Once a board is flat and uniformly thick, I will joint one edge and rip a piece off the edge. If ripping several pieces from one board, I just keep jointing and ripping until done.
When my saw was new and I was still trying to use it like a cabinet saw, I found that the slight difference in elevation between the cast iron and the slider was enough to throw the cut edge out of square.
Not by much, but by enough to be noticeable in some cases.
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Hi David:
?
I¡¯m pleased there was something helpful in there.
?
I¡¯m guilty of not even thinking about sheet goods, and yes, I do use primarily solid wood. Bryce makes the excellent point about straight line ripping which is important of course.
?
Your question about width is important, and it relates to length as well. I¡¯m quite happy to rip short stock (up to 1200mm long) on the right side of the blade up to 300mm or even a bit more. But at some point
there is a change-over:
?
- The width becomes more difficult to handle when trying to feed material through manually (right side of blade).
?
- The width becomes sufficient to register accurately against the crosscut fence making ripping quick and easy (left side of blade) without many clamps
or jigs or fixtures.
?
Examples:
?
Cutting larger sheets of processed material are nearly always done on the left side of the blade. Material is more often wide enough to register against the cross cut fence. The exception comes for ripping
smaller dimensions (less than 300mm) which I almost always do on the right side. For short, narrow dimensions, I tend to switch to the right side, unless there¡¯s a lot of repetition, in which case setting up for parallel ripping is worth the effort.
?
Long stock, 2m and longer, I would never rip conventionally, unless it is narrow and ¡®floppy¡¯ (like 50-100mm). Sure I can straight line rip the stock to get one side straight. But feeding such long stock manually
cannot be done with ¡®perfection¡¯. There are inevitable pauses associated with manual feeding, and it is arguably impossible to keep such stock against a relatively short rip fence. The inevitability of a less-than-perfect rip cut becomes more ¡®locked-in¡¯ with
longer material.
?
Large glue-up sections are always done on the left side of the blade. When sizing a rectangular table or desk, work on the slider. Always.
?
Sorry for any repetition in my many posts today. I¡¯m procrastinating. Time to get back to work. Thanks everyone.
?
?
Lucky-
That was excellent. Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation, I understand significantly more now.? I notice that you discuss the length of the work, but not the width.? I assume you work primarily with solid wood?? Is there a width
at which you would switch sides of the blade?? I¡¯m not referring to aspect-ratio here.
David
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Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Ha! John. Fantastic. That would get it close.
Thanks for sharing.
?
?
One way to get parallel rips is to set the fence parallel to the cut and use it for a bump stop. Eventually your 12¡± board will be reduced in width to a point where you can no longer clamp it to the sliding
table, though.
For narrow rips you do not really need fancy parallel guides. Simply clamp scraps to the slider to serve as parallel guides. You¡¯ll spend more time fiddling around getting them set correctly, but it sure works.
Lucky, instead of measuring from the edge of the slider to see where the cut is I made a simple gizmo as shown. One stick fit to the slot, and a thin scrap of ply glued to it. Put it in the slot and trim it
with your rip blade and you will know where the edge of the cut is. Precision is limited by slop in the strip in slider slot and by any variance in the slot itself, but it is really close.
The hole lets me hang it on a magnetic hook on the side of the saw, handy for use.
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Sounds good Mac. Your words sum it up well, especially ¡®being skilled¡¯ and ¡®being damn careful¡¯!
?
?
So I¡¯d recommend when ripping to set the fence to end at the back of the riving knife. Lay the fence on its low side..
Straight line one edge
Stand next the the blade guard on slider edge and jam the stuff through ripping oversize take everything and size it thickness on the planer on edge.
If your nervous use a push stick.
If you¡¯re skilled at it, you can use the slider to push the stuff through, but be damn careful that you don¡¯t get anything trapped.
Mac,,
?
martin/campshure/co/llc
mac campshure
7412 elmwood ave.
middleton, wi 53562-3106
608-332-2330?cell
Designing and building for 50 years
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Show quoted text
On Oct 28, 2024, at 8:39?PM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...>
wrote:
?
Jonathan, thank you very much for posing the question as have been struggling with how to rip down material specifically for face frames.??
John, your suggestion on rough ripping on a bandsaw and then finishing on a JP was a light bulb moment for me.??
David, your attached article was also incredibly helpful and has given some ideas and think I understand the approach I need to take.
OK, question for the experts here as still a tad confused on left or right side of the blade and where to slide the fence, etc:? I have the K700S and would like to:
-Rip hardwood 4/4 boards that are 5' long and roughly 12" wide into 1.25" face frame material and accuracy is of course critical.??
-I do not yet have parallel fences (Lamb Tools) and want to learn how to make these cuts without the use of one.
-Same comment as above regarding a FF jig.
Much appreciated and Gratzi,
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Kamal,
?
One way to get parallel rips is to set the fence parallel to the cut and use it for a bump stop. Eventually your 12¡± board will be reduced in width to a point where you can no longer clamp it to the sliding table, though.
?
For narrow rips you do not really need fancy parallel guides. Simply clamp scraps to the slider to serve as parallel guides. You¡¯ll spend more time fiddling around getting them set correctly, but it sure works.
?
Lucky, instead of measuring from the edge of the slider to see where the cut is I made a simple gizmo as shown. One stick fit to the slot, and a thin scrap of ply glued to it. Put it in the slot and trim it with your rip blade and you will know where the edge of the cut is. Precision is limited by slop in the strip in slider slot and by any variance in the slot itself, but it is really close.
?
The hole lets me hang it on a magnetic hook on the side of the saw, handy for use.
?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
So I¡¯d recommend when ripping to set the fence to end at the back of the riving knife. Lay the fence on its low side.. Straight line one edge Stand next the the blade guard on slider edge and jam the stuff through ripping oversize take everything and size it thickness on the planer on edge. If your nervous use a push stick. If you¡¯re skilled at it, you can use the slider to push the stuff through, but be damn careful that you don¡¯t get anything trapped. Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 28, 2024, at 8:39?PM, KRPatel via groups.io <kamalsonal@...> wrote:
? Jonathan, thank you very much for posing the question as have been struggling with how to rip down material specifically for face frames.??
John, your suggestion on rough ripping on a bandsaw and then finishing on a JP was a light bulb moment for me.??
David, your attached article was also incredibly helpful and has given some ideas and think I understand the approach I need to take.
?
OK, question for the experts here as still a tad confused on left or right side of the blade and where to slide the fence, etc:? I have the K700S and would like to:
?
-Rip hardwood 4/4 boards that are 5' long and roughly 12" wide into 1.25" face frame material and accuracy is of course critical.??
-I do not yet have parallel fences (Lamb Tools) and want to learn how to make these cuts without the use of one.
-Same comment as above regarding a FF jig.
?
Much appreciated and Gratzi,
?
Kamal Patel
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Jonathan, thank you very much for posing the question as have been struggling with how to rip down material specifically for face frames.??
John, your suggestion on rough ripping on a bandsaw and then finishing on a JP was a light bulb moment for me.??
David, your attached article was also incredibly helpful and has given some ideas and think I understand the approach I need to take.
?
OK, question for the experts here as still a tad confused on left or right side of the blade and where to slide the fence, etc:? I have the K700S and would like to:
?
-Rip hardwood 4/4 boards that are 5' long and roughly 12" wide into 1.25" face frame material and accuracy is of course critical.??
-I do not yet have parallel fences (Lamb Tools) and want to learn how to make these cuts without the use of one.
-Same comment as above regarding a FF jig.
?
Much appreciated and Gratzi,
?
Kamal Patel
?
?
?
?
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Hi John:
?
You make good points about both the use of a bandsaw and thicknessing on edge. And with regard to the slightly ¡®out of square¡¯ issue. It is very minor like you say, but enough to notice. When it matters (e.g.
for gluing up, joinery work, kumiko, etc.) I will always make two rip cuts. The first cut is slightly wide, and the second cut for that perfect rip where the material does not ride up on the slider.
?
(Yes, yes, I know this is hard on the blade and is probably a bad habit. But it works for me.)
?
There is another technique that I¡¯m not sure has been mentioned much on FOG. I sometimes parallel rip on the slider without a parallel fence by measuring the overhang of material. Here are the steps:
?
- Take any material, clamp it down to the sliding table, and cut it with the blade intended for ripping (e.g. 3.2/2.2 x 30mm).
?
- Do not unclamp the material. Now take a steel ruler or callipers and carefully measure the overhang of material in relation to the right edge of the
sliding table. For my saw, Kappa 400, the overhang is exactly 5.5mm. This is the distance between the right side of the sliding extrusion, and the left edge of my 3.2/2.2mm blade.
?
- Armed with the offset of 5.5mm (or whatever yours is), and with the slider retracted, place the first edge of whatever you¡¯re trying to dimension on
the slider and position it so it overhangs by roughly 5-6mm off the right edge of the sliding table.
?
- Clamp the board in place and use an accurate steel ruler or callipers to measure the offset. If it is less than 5.5mm, then the blade will not cut. If
it is 6mm, then the blade will remove 0.5mm of material. You get the idea (hopefully).
?
- Both ends of the board must be checked to ensure it overhangs by more than 5.5mm. Adjust as needed and reclamp. Make the cut.
?
- If you¡¯re planning on a trim cut only (i.e. not taking off much), make sure to account for any bow in the material. If the bow is outwards or convex,
then the blade will engage at either measured end, and simply take more stock out of the middle (where the bow is largest). But if the bow is inwards or concave, you need to make sure the entire length of material is overhanging the slider by more than 5.5mm.
?
- I do this procedure where I don¡¯t have a lot of width to work with and I want to trim the minimum amount to achieve a straight line rip. If there is
plenty of width, I just eye-ball it. I guess some of us (not me) have a laser and just use that.
?
- If the stock is not too long (e.g. less than 1200mm) I simply set the rip fence and parallel rip in the conventional way. I¡¯m assuming a small sample
size here. It is far less tiring and safer to take the time to set up proper parallel fence/s for repetitive rips for larger jobs.
?
- If the stock is long, say 2-3m, but I only need to rip one, I¡¯ll do some mental arithmetic and do a parallel rip on the basis of the overhang amount.
I can get very close using this method (at least down to 0.2mm). If the board has to be exactly parallel, I always break out Brian¡¯s parallel fence, calibrate it using my magnetic ¡®calibration device¡¯ so that it agrees exactly with my cross-cut fence stop.
And parallel rip that way.
?
Again, I hope this helps.
?
?
Another method for ripping is skipping the circular saw, ripping to slightly over width on a band saw, and running the boards on edge through a thicknesser. That idea has been presented in this group before,
so I do not take credit for it. I struggled with that idea until I acquired a band saw that would make clean and straight cuts.
Once a board is flat and uniformly thick, I will joint one edge and rip a piece off the edge. If ripping several pieces from one board, I just keep jointing and ripping until done.
When my saw was new and I was still trying to use it like a cabinet saw, I found that the slight difference in elevation between the cast iron and the slider was enough to throw the cut edge out of square.
Not by much, but by enough to be noticeable in some cases.
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Greetings: I normally cc first selecting longest length always trying to work with smallest parts. If you can do hit and miss first that will help with matching color and grain. You can also specify hit miss from the yard. The other thing with cc first as you get rid of the ends that screw up your knives. Keep steel brush around to clean surfaces.
Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Oct 28, 2024, at 7:31?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
? Another method for ripping is skipping the circular saw, ripping to slightly over width on a band saw, and running the boards on edge through a thicknesser. That idea has been presented in this group before, so I do not take credit for it. I struggled with that idea until I acquired a band saw that would make clean and straight cuts.
?
Once a board is flat and uniformly thick, I will joint one edge and rip a piece off the edge. If ripping several pieces from one board, I just keep jointing and ripping until done.
?
When my saw was new and I was still trying to use it like a cabinet saw, I found that the slight difference in elevation between the cast iron and the slider was enough to throw the cut edge out of square. Not by much, but by enough to be noticeable in some cases.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Another method for ripping is skipping the circular saw, ripping to slightly over width on a band saw, and running the boards on edge through a thicknesser. That idea has been presented in this group before, so I do not take credit for it. I struggled with that idea until I acquired a band saw that would make clean and straight cuts.
?
Once a board is flat and uniformly thick, I will joint one edge and rip a piece off the edge. If ripping several pieces from one board, I just keep jointing and ripping until done.
?
When my saw was new and I was still trying to use it like a cabinet saw, I found that the slight difference in elevation between the cast iron and the slider was enough to throw the cut edge out of square. Not by much, but by enough to be noticeable in some cases.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Bryce-
Thank you. I think that¡¯s rounds it out nicely. We were typing at the same time, I¡¯m afraid.
-David Gandy
(Dumas is worth it.)
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Lucky-
That was excellent. Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed explanation, I understand significantly more now. I notice that you discuss the length of the work, but not the width. I assume you work primarily with solid wood? Is there a width at which you would switch sides of the blade? I¡¯m not referring to aspect-ratio here.
David
|
Re: Help Ripping - just got my first sliding table saw. Felder k700s
Ok, i'll try to add something to this topic.?
It depends......
What are you trying to rip? How many? What thickness? There are so many questions that need answering before an answer can be given.
Here are some examples.
If i need to take a bunch of 6, 8 or 10' boards from roughly 6" in width, and make them all straight and say 5 or 5 1/2" in width, then i would start by making a straight line rip with the rip shoe on one end of the slider and holding the other. I would have the rip fence set to my desired width, and simply rip the board down.?
If i am doing a lot of ripping of solid timber and i'm not just ripping a small amount off the edge, then i will always be using the short fence. Not only does this lessen the chance of the timber binding on the back of the blade if there is tension in the board, but allows for better accuracy of the cut when that tension is released.
If you are talking about sheetgoods, then you will have more accuracy sticking to the slider side. Having said that, i do all my thinner "rips" (say under 8 or 10" wide) of sheetgoods on the right of the blade. Good technique will get you a perfectly good result.
With all that said, i will pretty much always be ripping solid wood as a first step in the machining process. From there i will be square dressing the material and or running it through the shaper for use in whatever it is i'm making.
Let us know what kind of rip cuts you need advise with and i'm sure you will find lots of good advice.
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
Thanks David,
I have roughly 40 feet of 8" ducting along with around 30 feet of 6" and 30 feet of 5" so far. The sheet metal isn't hot, however i can certainly feel warm air around the machine when i go down to shut it off. I will test the amperage draw and see where that is.
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
Thanks David,
Yep, it's running in the correct direction. It's just starting to cool off here in Canada, & maybe i'm just sensitive to the temperature difference?? :) I am going to check the amperage draw and make sure there are no issues there. It's good to know your RL 160 does produce some heat. I would expect there to be some, since the extractor is moving a lot of air! I just don't know how much. I should actually try to measure it too i guess.
Regards,
Bryce
--
https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
|
imran
DanielD
David Luckensmeyer
Bryce Comer