I am no machinery expert, but I do know that Langzauner Edge Sanders and Zimmermann OSS and perhaps other European machines are only available in 400v and one can get an outdoor 400V transformer without it being just a big cost or such a big deal that it should be a deal breaker for someone thinking they would have a 40k machine for 6k.
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The only one of those to come to the USA was sold at auction in January for just under $6,000. ?See this thread.
That machine is not made by Felder - it’s an Italian machine with a Felder logo.
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
Begin forwarded message:
From:?"Jason Holtz" <jholtzy@...>
Subject:?Re: [FOG] PNW auction of unused felder machines (and others)
Date:?January 31, 2023 at 4:02:54 PM PST
My buddy Brian got the FB740S bandsaw. I can't believe the deal he got. He had Felder quote that saw a few months ago. It was just shy of $40k. I suspect the 400v motor scared some buyers off.?
?Holtz J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
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On Mar 7, 2023, at 12:03 PM, Mike <mike@...> wrote:
Felder introduced a bandsaw with a sliding table FB740S. It's one of those things that I never thought about, but was obvious the moment I saw it. Fortunately, it's so big and expensive that I won't be trying to rationalize why I need to buy one. 
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Felder introduced a bandsaw with a sliding table FB740S. It's one of those things that I never thought about, but was obvious the moment I saw it. Fortunately, it's so big and expensive that I won't be trying to rationalize why I need to buy one.
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
There are three sliders in the shop, but there's still room for the sawstop. It is still used for dados, and ripping of solid woods. If you have space, I'd let it stay. I'd also invest in or make some parallel guides for your Hamer. I do all my plywood part ripping on the slider with one stop on the crosscut fence and one parallel guide. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
612 432-2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Horacio,
Since you are a mechanical engineer, you might appreciate the technical analysis of just what the induced angle would be if you have your sliding table set to the proper height relative to the cast iron top of the machine. ?This is worst case, ripping material 1.5” wide - the resulting angle is 90.091-degrees.
A higher resolution drawing is attached for reference if needed. ?
This question about “should I keep my cabinet saw” has come up every year or two on this forum and if you search the archives you’ll find lots of feedback about whether to ditch your cabinet saw or not. ?In practice, this “angle” issue is a red herrng ("piece of information that is, or is intended to be, misleading or?诲颈蝉迟谤补肠迟颈苍驳”)?in my opinion. ?Once you get used to a sliding table machine, a lot of your ripping will be done with the material clamped to the sliding table, and the rip fence used as a bump stop. ?See attached document on how to set up your rip fence as a parallel fence. ?
If you had to rip very narrow pieces conventionally, and were concerned about the 0.091° induced angle, you could always spray-mount a piece of teflon shim stock on the throat plate temporarily that is 0.005” thick for the duration of the job. ?That would bring the table surfaces into exact alignment. ?Here is a link to such a shim: ??
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Mar 7, 2023, at 5:45 AM, H <horacio.nochetto@...> wrote:
Hello. New Hammer K3 owner?here.?
I am just now starting to do projects with my Hammer K3 sliding table saw and have noticed that what I previously read was true. Ripping on a sliding table is very different from a cabinet saw. Using the saw's rip fence like a cabinet saw produces angled cuts, unless the slide table is level to the cast iron. I have gathered that this "leveling" is typically unwanted?because?of drag during cross cuts. Is this true? Do any have experience?with this setup?
Most seem to use a Frtiz and Franz for short to medium size boards and/or parallel fences. I have a Fritz and Franz but as I am a new user, I am not comfortable?with ripping on the Hammer.?
I still have my old cabinet saw, but its?"only" a 1.75hp Laguna F2 and in comparison a bit weak and "cheap" feeling to the hammer. I would rather work with the Hammer.?
So as I see it here are my options.?
1. Sell the cabinet saw and use the proceeds for Hammer k3 Accessories?like clamps and maybe parallel fences. I already have a "Fritz and Franz."
2. Keep the cabinet saw and use it for Ripping. Perhaps upgrade it to a 3hp machine. 3. Not ask others what to do with my life.?
What are your thoughts as experienced sliding table saw users?
Thanks
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
I was going to say this. Keep a track saw handy. Less space and less expensive.?
On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 10:45 AM Bob Wise < bob@...> wrote: Possibly the odd opinion out here, but ripping with a track saw is also an option. Even before I had my slider that was better than ripping on my oliver 270d.
There are some good fixtures options from both festool and aftermarket.
Get
On Mar 7, 2023, at 7:29 AM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote:
The slider has to be at least .003-.006” above the cast iron top or you will have dragging issues, especially if you clamp your material down. I have mine set at about .004” at the closest and I have clamped material down and it locks the sliding table in place because of drag on the saw table.
Rip with the slider, use the “rip” fence as a length stop, you will have much better results.
Hello. New Hammer K3 owner?here.?
I am just now starting to do projects with my Hammer K3 sliding table saw and have noticed that what I previously read was true. Ripping on a sliding table is very different from a cabinet saw. Using the saw's rip fence like a cabinet saw produces angled cuts, unless the slide table is level to the cast iron. I have gathered that this "leveling" is typically unwanted?because?of drag during cross cuts. Is this true? Do any have experience?with this setup?
Most seem to use a Frtiz and Franz for short to medium size boards and/or parallel fences. I have a Fritz and Franz but as I am a new user, I am not comfortable?with ripping on the Hammer.?
I still have my old cabinet saw, but its?"only" a 1.75hp Laguna F2 and in comparison a bit weak and "cheap" feeling to the hammer. I would rather work with the Hammer.?
So as I see it here are my options.?
1. Sell the cabinet saw and use the proceeds for Hammer k3 Accessories?like clamps and maybe parallel fences. I already have a "Fritz and Franz."
2. Keep the cabinet saw and use it for Ripping. Perhaps upgrade it to a 3hp machine.
3. Not ask others what to do with my life.?
What are your thoughts as experienced sliding table saw users?
Thanks
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
I must say that the support this group provides is immense.?
A little about myself since I forgot to add this before. My name is Horacio Nochetto and i am a mechanical engineer by trade. i always loved woodworking, but was unable during college and some time afterwards. I recently purchased a house and now have the room for a decent shop which has grown exponentially in the last year.
I currently make live edge itemw as well as cutting boards, coasters and smaller items. I plan on making some shop furniture in the near future to get a handle on the needed precision for fine furniture.?
For ripping hardwoods, i normally am ripping stock from 25-10mm thick. As this is a bit thin, i was trying to figure the best method forward. It seems i need to practice and keep with the slider, at least for the near future.?
My hammer was setup by Felder technicians to be higher than the cast iron, but it's not the same height across the entire cast iron. Near the front it is about 4 thousands of and inch and near the back it is close to 20 thousands. Yes, it's that different. They told me i need not worry since I do not have a shaper.?
I still worry however since I still get some circular marks while ripping on the slider. I will see if the cast iron is twisted (I have moved it like a dumb dumb) and try better securing the material to the table.?
I am currently using a ridge carbide super combo 10 inch 48 tooth atb blade. I used Felder's 80 tooth 12 inch blade but it gave me much worse cut quality. I still however get circular marks while ripping on the slider with the ridge. I wonder if my tow out is causing this or my rip method, or a combination of the two. I will need to check on all these things.
Thank you all for your help on this.?
[Edited Message Follows]
Good morning (H?),
Having switched to a slider about 18 months ago my experience is not as extensive as other members here. Nevertheless I have not experienced problems with the angled cut you mentioned, partly because it is so small that it does not make a difference in most (if not all) operations.
You have received excellent feedback from the pros; learning to work on the slider (left side of the blade) is the best approach. Should you absolutely have to work on the fence side (right of the blade) one option is to make two cuts. First about 5-8 mm wide and then cut to final dimension. Your piece will sit entirely on the cast iron table. This is not optimal but it will work.
As for the cabinet saw, I do not miss it and have no intention of ever going back.
Regards,
Jacques
PS: I am a hobbyist using a B3 - same saw equipment as yours.
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Re: KF 700 spindle start up issue
Jonathan,
Like Imran said, generally higher rating is fine.? Typically these are a maximum value if you read the spec sheet.??
Lower rating is not good, unless you like sparks and exploding capacitors.??
-Kyle
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
When I bought a K700S slider?I had intended to sell my 5HP Powermatic cabinet saw - but I hesitated and found that the cabinet saw was super useful for ripping AND for dados. There seems to be no foolproof way to do jobs needing both regular cuts and dados without going back and forth between dado blades and single blades, which is a PITA. In the meantime, I took one of the Powermatic's cast iron tabletop extensions to a machine shop to get the edge milled to an exact 90 degrees, drilled holes in the edge and bolted a cast iron router table to it, which takes care of many smaller jobs I would have used my shaper's router spindle for - but which would have been BIG overkill for the shaper- based router spindle, not to mention the spindle changeover hassle. Now I'm double happy that I hesitated. Cheers Eric Janson
I am in very nearly the same boat. I sold my Unisaw when I bought my slider almost a year go. I’m still struggling with ripping. What was a simple, intuitive, and accurate process has become a much more complex process of setting not one but two fences, and clamping the work piece.
Early on I tried ripping with the rip fence, but encountered the same tilt issue that you describe. Also, when ripping with a rip fence you want to stand to the left of the blade so that in the unlikely event of a kickback you don’t get hit. With a slider the table is in the way, or you are leaning over the sliding table to make the cut.
I’ve gotten better at getting parallel rips, but still burn the cut surfaces way too often. It is particularly noticeable on the off-cut side. At some point I will start a FOG thread soliciting advice about that issue. So many experienced people rip successfully that my issues are likely to be technique or machine set-up.
My slider will do things my Unisaw could not do, like cross cutting large planks. I made a couple of doors for my shop, and trimmed the tops and bottoms with the slider - not something I could have done with a cabinet saw! I will continue to work on getting better rips from the sliding table, and my suggestion is that you do the same.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
I got rid of my cabinet saw almost as soon as I got the Hammer C3 combo. I've never used the rip fence as you would on a cabinet saw (in fact I barely use it at all). On the rare occasions that I do use it, it functions as a bump stop. Nearly all of the ripping operations can be done with a Fritz and Franz jig. Occasionally if I'm ripping very thin stock I might use a parallel fence.
I would recommend pushing yourself to only use the sliding table for rips and get away from using it as an expensive cabinet saw. There are plenty of videos on You Tube on how to rip all sorts of different stock
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
I am in very nearly the same boat. I sold my Unisaw when I bought my slider almost a year go. I’m still struggling with ripping. What was a simple, intuitive, and accurate process has become a much more complex process of setting not one but two fences, and clamping the work piece.
Early on I tried ripping with the rip fence, but encountered the same tilt issue that you describe. Also, when ripping with a rip fence you want to stand to the left of the blade so that in the unlikely event of a kickback you don’t get hit. With a slider the table is in the way, or you are leaning over the sliding table to make the cut.
I’ve gotten better at getting parallel rips, but still burn the cut surfaces way too often. It is particularly noticeable on the off-cut side. At some point I will start a FOG thread soliciting advice about that issue. So many experienced people rip successfully that my issues are likely to be technique or machine set-up.
My slider will do things my Unisaw could not do, like cross cutting large planks. I made a couple of doors for my shop, and trimmed the tops and bottoms with the slider - not something I could have done with a cabinet saw! I will continue to work on getting better rips from the sliding table, and my suggestion is that you do the same.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Good morning (H?),
Having switched to a slider about 18 months ago my experience is not as extensive as other members here. Nevertheless I have not experienced problems with the angled cut you mentioned, partly because it is so small that it does not make a difference in most (if not all) operations.
You have received excellent feedback from the pros; learning to work on the slider (left side of the blade) is the best approach. Should you absolutely have to work on the fence side (right of the blade) one option is to make two cuts. First about 5-8 mm wide and then cut to final dimension. Your piece will sit entirely on the cast iron table. This is not optimal but it will work.
As for the cabinet saw, I do not miss it and have no intention of ever going back.
Regards,
Jacques
PS: I am a hobbyist using a B3 - same saw equipment as yours.
|
Re: KF 700 spindle start up issue
Another school day. Kindest regards
Jonathan Samways
Jonathan, A higher voltage rating is fine as long as the capacitor size is acceptable. ? Hi Kyle. Thanks, I looked at mouser, couldn't?find anything that I needed in my area in 250v.......the majority are 400v
Hi,
I'd check Mouser:
Change the location and it should show you want is in stock in your area.? There are other electronics part suppliers that stock these as well.? ??
For what its worth, I use these TDK caps:??? These have an overpressure disconnector that disconnects power from the cap in the event they fail.
-Kyle
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
|
Re: KF 700 spindle start up issue
Jonathan, A higher voltage rating is fine as long as the capacitor size is acceptable.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2023, at 10:26 AM, jontathan samways <jonathansamways@...> wrote: ? Hi Kyle. Thanks, I looked at mouser, couldn't?find anything that I needed in my area in 250v.......the majority are 400v
Hi,
I'd check Mouser:
Change the location and it should show you want is in stock in your area.? There are other electronics part suppliers that stock these as well.? ??
For what its worth, I use these TDK caps:??? These have an overpressure disconnector that disconnects power from the cap in the event they fail.
-Kyle
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
I kept my saw stop cabinet saw when I purchased my k700. ?I use that one for dado set up and some ripping operations. It's always nice to have available if I have the k700 set up with something specific and I don't want to lose my settings or change out the blades. I find it quite helpful to have both but understand it's a luxury and probably not cost effective for most.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2023, at 9:13 AM, H <horacio.nochetto@...> wrote:
? Hello. New Hammer K3 owner?here.?
I am just now starting to do projects with my Hammer K3 sliding table saw and have noticed that what I previously read was true. Ripping on a sliding table is very different from a cabinet saw. Using the saw's rip fence like a cabinet saw produces angled cuts, unless the slide table is level to the cast iron. I have gathered that this "leveling" is typically unwanted?because?of drag during cross cuts. Is this true? Do any have experience?with this setup?
Most seem to use a Frtiz and Franz for short to medium size boards and/or parallel fences. I have a Fritz and Franz but as I am a new user, I am not comfortable?with ripping on the Hammer.?
I still have my old cabinet saw, but its?"only" a 1.75hp Laguna F2 and in comparison a bit weak and "cheap" feeling to the hammer. I would rather work with the Hammer.?
So as I see it here are my options.?
1. Sell the cabinet saw and use the proceeds for Hammer k3 Accessories?like clamps and maybe parallel fences. I already have a "Fritz and Franz."
2. Keep the cabinet saw and use it for Ripping. Perhaps upgrade it to a 3hp machine. 3. Not ask others what to do with my life.?
What are your thoughts as experienced sliding table saw users?
Thanks
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Possibly the odd opinion out here, but ripping with a track saw is also an option. Even before I had my slider that was better than ripping on my oliver 270d.
There are some good fixtures options from both festool and aftermarket.
Get
On Mar 7, 2023, at 7:29 AM, Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote:
The slider has to be at least .003-.006” above the cast iron top or you will have dragging issues, especially if you clamp your material down. I have mine set at about .004” at the closest and I have clamped material down and it locks the sliding table in place because of drag on the saw table.
Rip with the slider, use the “rip” fence as a length stop, you will have much better results.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
On Mar 7, 2023, at 6:45 AM, H <horacio.nochetto@...> wrote:
Hello. New Hammer K3 owner?here.?
I am just now starting to do projects with my Hammer K3 sliding table saw and have noticed that what I previously read was true. Ripping on a sliding table is very different from a cabinet saw. Using the saw's rip fence like a cabinet saw produces angled cuts, unless the slide table is level to the cast iron. I have gathered that this "leveling" is typically unwanted?because?of drag during cross cuts. Is this true? Do any have experience?with this setup?
Most seem to use a Frtiz and Franz for short to medium size boards and/or parallel fences. I have a Fritz and Franz but as I am a new user, I am not comfortable?with ripping on the Hammer.?
I still have my old cabinet saw, but its?"only" a 1.75hp Laguna F2 and in comparison a bit weak and "cheap" feeling to the hammer. I would rather work with the Hammer.?
So as I see it here are my options.?
1. Sell the cabinet saw and use the proceeds for Hammer k3 Accessories?like clamps and maybe parallel fences. I already have a "Fritz and Franz."
2. Keep the cabinet saw and use it for Ripping. Perhaps upgrade it to a 3hp machine.
3. Not ask others what to do with my life.?
What are your thoughts as experienced sliding table saw users?
Thanks
|
Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Hi H (what's your name?),?
Since you're asking, my suggestion would be to take the time to dial-in your sliding table so it's ~0.1mm-0.2mm above the cast iron. This alignment should prevent "dragging", while at the same time shouldn't result in a meaningful deviation from square when ripping in the traditional manner. This alignment can be time consuming, and rather frustrating the first time or two, but I've found it to be worthwhile.?
Second, I'd suggest re-thinking some of your processes. I very rarely use my KF700 for ripping in the "traditional" sense (hand feeding, using the rip fence). These days, most of my ripping is done in the following methods:
? ? ?-- Using parallel guides on the sliding table
? ? ?-- Using the rip fence as a "bump stop" to index and align a cut, then clamping to slider (using F&F or Mac's clamps) and ripping using the slider
? ? ?-- Ripping on the band saw, with the understanding that most of my rips go through the thickness planer for final sizing/clean-up anyways
I'd suggest that you'll have a safer and more enjoyable woodworking experience selling your old cabinet saw, and using the funds to acquire parallel guides and Mac's clamps for your Hammer. My $0.02.
Good luck, and safe woodworking!?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
The slider has to be at least .003-.006” above the cast iron top or you will have dragging issues, especially if you clamp your material down. I have mine set at about .004” at the closest and I have clamped material down and it locks the sliding table in place because of drag on the saw table.
Rip with the slider, use the “rip” fence as a length stop, you will have much better results.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mar 7, 2023, at 6:45 AM, H <horacio.nochetto@...> wrote:
Hello. New Hammer K3 owner?here.?
I am just now starting to do projects with my Hammer K3 sliding table saw and have noticed that what I previously read was true. Ripping on a sliding table is very different from a cabinet saw. Using the saw's rip fence like a cabinet saw produces angled cuts, unless the slide table is level to the cast iron. I have gathered that this "leveling" is typically unwanted?because?of drag during cross cuts. Is this true? Do any have experience?with this setup?
Most seem to use a Frtiz and Franz for short to medium size boards and/or parallel fences. I have a Fritz and Franz but as I am a new user, I am not comfortable?with ripping on the Hammer.?
I still have my old cabinet saw, but its?"only" a 1.75hp Laguna F2 and in comparison a bit weak and "cheap" feeling to the hammer. I would rather work with the Hammer.?
So as I see it here are my options.?
1. Sell the cabinet saw and use the proceeds for Hammer k3 Accessories?like clamps and maybe parallel fences. I already have a "Fritz and Franz."
2. Keep the cabinet saw and use it for Ripping. Perhaps upgrade it to a 3hp machine. 3. Not ask others what to do with my life.?
What are your thoughts as experienced sliding table saw users?
Thanks
|
Re: KF 700 spindle start up issue
Hi Kyle. Thanks, I looked at mouser, couldn't?find anything that I needed in my area in 250v.......the majority are 400v
Hi,
I'd check Mouser:
Change the location and it should show you want is in stock in your area.? There are other electronics part suppliers that stock these as well.? ??
For what its worth, I use these TDK caps:??? These have an overpressure disconnector that disconnects power from the cap in the event they fail.
-Kyle
-- Kindest Regards
Jonathan Samways
Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es vd.el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. This message is intended exclusively for its addressee and may contain information that is confidential and protected by professional privilege.If you are not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is strictly prohibited by law. If this message has been received in error, please immediately notify us via e-mail and delete it.
|
To Keep or not to keep Cabinet saw
Hello. New Hammer K3 owner?here.?
I am just now starting to do projects with my Hammer K3 sliding table saw and have noticed that what I previously read was true. Ripping on a sliding table is very different from a cabinet saw. Using the saw's rip fence like a cabinet saw produces angled cuts, unless the slide table is level to the cast iron. I have gathered that this "leveling" is typically unwanted?because?of drag during cross cuts. Is this true? Do any have experience?with this setup?
Most seem to use a Frtiz and Franz for short to medium size boards and/or parallel fences. I have a Fritz and Franz but as I am a new user, I am not comfortable?with ripping on the Hammer.?
I still have my old cabinet saw, but its?"only" a 1.75hp Laguna F2 and in comparison a bit weak and "cheap" feeling to the hammer. I would rather work with the Hammer.?
So as I see it here are my options.?
1. Sell the cabinet saw and use the proceeds for Hammer k3 Accessories?like clamps and maybe parallel fences. I already have a "Fritz and Franz."
2. Keep the cabinet saw and use it for Ripping. Perhaps upgrade it to a 3hp machine. 3. Not ask others what to do with my life.?
What are your thoughts as experienced sliding table saw users?
Thanks
|
David P. Best
Mike
Jason Holtz
imran
Tom Gensmer