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Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

When my machines arrived in Sacramento I went down to inspect them the best I could before the rigger picked them up to deliver.
Actually I think you suggested that to me back then. They looked fine and when they got to my shop they were all still as the day I saw them In Sac.
However I used the rigger that Felder recommended at the time just in case I had problems.

Well Now that I know you have Martin background, would yu be welling to help me spec out a new slider?
Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247
Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road
????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507


On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 9:53 PM david@... via <david=[email protected]> wrote:
There was enough damage to the 2x4 scaffold that I could inspect the contents before deciding whether to accept or reject.? Normally I would have rejected it immediately, but I had a rigging crew there for transport to my shop and they suggested digging a bit deeper.? Amazingly there was no damage to anything, so I accepted the shipment. ?

David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:

David,
Did you refuse that machine?
I can't come up with any reason why Felder wound not spend an extra 200 bucks (Well maybe 400 now) not to wrap them in OSB? The onl logical thing might be the added weight in shipping, but I dont think that is it.
Maybe they don't have OSB trees in Austria.
Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247
Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road
????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507


On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 8:53 PM david@... via <david=[email protected]> wrote:
That¡¯s painful, but not uncommon.? I would have declined the shipment.? Felder seems to have some aversion to crating their machines and accessories properly for LTL shipment.? For some strange reason they are in love with 2x4 scaffolding and sheet plastic instead of a proper OSB or plywood crate. ?

Here¡¯s how I found my Kappa 400 at the freight terminal.? In my case, nothing inside was damaged. ?


<35521384466_29aabb891b_c.jpeg>

In contrast, this is how my milling machine was crated:

<28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg>


David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:23 PM, scottshimmin via <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).

<IMG_9587.jpg><IMG_9592.jpg><IMG_9591.jpg>




Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

There was enough damage to the 2x4 scaffold that I could inspect the contents before deciding whether to accept or reject. ?Normally I would have rejected it immediately, but I had a rigging crew there for transport to my shop and they suggested digging a bit deeper. ?Amazingly there was no damage to anything, so I accepted the shipment. ?

David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:48 PM, Glen Christensen <grchris1966@...> wrote:

David,
Did you refuse that machine?
I can't come up with any reason why Felder wound not spend an extra 200 bucks (Well maybe 400 now) not to wrap them in OSB? The onl logical thing might be the added weight in shipping, but I dont think that is it.
Maybe they don't have OSB trees in Austria.
Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247
Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road
????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507


On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 8:53 PM david@... via <david=[email protected]> wrote:
That¡¯s painful, but not uncommon.? I would have declined the shipment.? Felder seems to have some aversion to crating their machines and accessories properly for LTL shipment.? For some strange reason they are in love with 2x4 scaffolding and sheet plastic instead of a proper OSB or plywood crate. ?

Here¡¯s how I found my Kappa 400 at the freight terminal.? In my case, nothing inside was damaged. ?


<35521384466_29aabb891b_c.jpeg>

In contrast, this is how my milling machine was crated:

<28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg>


David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:23 PM, scottshimmin via <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).

<IMG_9587.jpg><IMG_9592.jpg><IMG_9591.jpg>




Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

David,
Did you refuse that machine?
I can't come up with any reason why Felder wound not spend an extra 200 bucks (Well maybe 400 now) not to wrap them in OSB? The onl logical thing might be the added weight in shipping, but I dont think that is it.
Maybe they don't have OSB trees in Austria.
Glen
Alpine Moulding and Millwork Inc.
Mail: ?? P.O. Box 486
?????????? Murphys , CA. 95247
Shop: 441 Pennsylvania Gulch Road
????????? Murphys, CA. 95247
????????? 209-540-7501
LIC # 707507


On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 8:53 PM david@... via <david=[email protected]> wrote:
That¡¯s painful, but not uncommon.? I would have declined the shipment.? Felder seems to have some aversion to crating their machines and accessories properly for LTL shipment.? For some strange reason they are in love with 2x4 scaffolding and sheet plastic instead of a proper OSB or plywood crate. ?

Here¡¯s how I found my Kappa 400 at the freight terminal.? In my case, nothing inside was damaged. ?



In contrast, this is how my milling machine was crated:



David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:23 PM, scottshimmin via <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).

<IMG_9587.jpg><IMG_9592.jpg><IMG_9591.jpg>

Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Well, I totally agree, and have given that feedback to the top management of Felder USA many times. In a market like this, where supply chains are clogged, shipping companies are short staffed, customers are waiting 12 months for their pre-paid orders, etc., you would think crating a machine to ensure no damage through LTL shipment would be pretty high priority. ?But in the battle between NIH and being open to constructive feedback, NIH always wins at Felder. ?I¡¯ve made countless product improvement suggestions to Felder which were not only ignored, but not even acknowledged with ¡°I received your suggestions - please stop." ?In contrast, when Martin wanted to come up with an ¡°entry level¡± sliding table saw, they paid me handsomely to come to Germany to provide input on the various design tradeoffs for the T60. ?I have come to the conclusion that it¡¯s an impenetrable cultural thing with Felder. ?It's a mindset that just doesn't change. ? End of rant.

David Best

On Jan 4, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Jarrett Maxwell <j.a.max7@...> wrote:

David,?

That is insulting to receive your Kappa "crated" like that after spending as much as that machine costs!?

Felder would save money in the long run by properly crating their products up front rather than dealing with warranty and shipping damages on the back end.?

Jarrett

?
Instagram: geometric_innovations?

On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 10:53 PM david@... via <david=[email protected]> wrote:
That¡¯s painful, but not uncommon.? I would have declined the shipment.? Felder seems to have some aversion to crating their machines and accessories properly for LTL shipment.? For some strange reason they are in love with 2x4 scaffolding and sheet plastic instead of a proper OSB or plywood crate. ?

Here¡¯s how I found my Kappa 400 at the freight terminal.? In my case, nothing inside was damaged. ?



In contrast, this is how my milling machine was crated:



David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:23 PM, scottshimmin via <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).

<IMG_9587.jpg><IMG_9592.jpg><IMG_9591.jpg>



<35521384466_29aabb891b_c.jpeg><28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg><28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg><28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg>
Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

David,?

That is insulting to receive your Kappa "crated" like that after spending as much as that machine costs!?

Felder would save money in the long run by properly crating their products up front rather than dealing with warranty and shipping damages on the back end.?

Jarrett

?
Instagram: geometric_innovations?

On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 10:53 PM david@... via <david=[email protected]> wrote:
That¡¯s painful, but not uncommon.? I would have declined the shipment.? Felder seems to have some aversion to crating their machines and accessories properly for LTL shipment.? For some strange reason they are in love with 2x4 scaffolding and sheet plastic instead of a proper OSB or plywood crate. ?

Here¡¯s how I found my Kappa 400 at the freight terminal.? In my case, nothing inside was damaged. ?



In contrast, this is how my milling machine was crated:



David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:23 PM, scottshimmin via <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).

<IMG_9587.jpg><IMG_9592.jpg><IMG_9591.jpg>

35521384466_29aabb891b_c.jpeg
28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg
35521384466_29aabb891b_c.jpeg
28075493167_47cf2d4202_c(1).jpeg

Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

That¡¯s painful, but not uncommon. ?I would have declined the shipment. ?Felder seems to have some aversion to crating their machines and accessories properly for LTL shipment. ?For some strange reason they are in love with 2x4 scaffolding and sheet plastic instead of a proper OSB or plywood crate. ?

Here¡¯s how I found my Kappa 400 at the freight terminal. ?In my case, nothing inside was damaged. ?



In contrast, this is how my milling machine was crated:



David Best






On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:23 PM, scottshimmin via <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).

<IMG_9587.jpg><IMG_9592.jpg><IMG_9591.jpg>

Re: K700S electrical drawings? #electrical #k700s #schematic

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Hello again,

My KF is also 2001. It is strange that I do not have a PCB. The only PCB is the brake board. I will attach my schematic but it is not going to match. Felder should be able to provide you with one got your machine.

Unless used in a production environment, your grandkids probably will be using this machine. Felder offers great support and I imagine you can get it running just fine.

Imran


On Jan 4, 2022, at 6:31 PM, S.Ryan <seamieryan@...> wrote:

?Hi Imran,
Its a 2001 machine, its getting a bit long in the tooth, but was working fine up to recently.
But yes, there is 24vac present across the start switch, and I've replaced that switch block with a new one, but still no dice.
In this saw, the brake circuitry is all on the one main board, so I'm not sure that can be eliminated easily.
I've trawled through the files section, but failed to find anything to help my cause....

I think if I fail to fix this, I'll abandon all that board and electronics and make up my own star/detla starter and use that, though I'd prefer fix it as it stands....
Thanks!
Seamus

Re: New K700S Delivery Damage to Sliding Table

 

This thread makes me nervous too. I think my K700S came to Delaware the same time, but I am summonses to pick it up from the trucking terminal. I suspect cannot strip it down or unpack anything before I pick it up.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Not a Felder Owner yet - expecting K700S in February and A941 in April 2022
Re: New K700S Delivery Damage to Sliding Table

 

I imagine Felder will be right on it, fixing the damage...in nine more
months. I'm awaiting delivery of my K3 after 10 months and dread what
happened to you. Good luck!

JH

On Tue, Jan 4, 2022 at 6:33 PM JP Rice via groups.io
<jprphotos@...> wrote:

Sorry to hear this, I feel your pain. I would have been on the phone with Felder Logistics while standing at the terminal. I am sure Felder will handle this.


--
John Huelsenbeck
Department of Integrative Biology
University of California, Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720

(510) 502-5887
johnh@...
Re: New K700S Delivery Damage to Sliding Table

 

Don't accept it is the lesson I learned the hard way. I had the same thing happen and got $800 from felder several months later. I am glad I didn't decline the shipment since I would have to wait even longer for another one. So I now have a functional slider with several blemishes luckily. But it caused a lot of headache dealing with it.


On Tue, Jan 4, 2022, 8:30 PM scottshimmin via <scottshimmin=[email protected]> wrote:
So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).
Re: New K700S Delivery Damage to Sliding Table

 

Bummer!?

I hope you didn't take possession of the machine. I recently received a RL160 and FAT500, my Felder rep and logistics were both very explicit that I should completely unpack the machine prior to signing, and at the first hint of any damage I should refuse the delivery. An excerpt from the e-mail from Felder when the shipment left Delaware:

Freight companies are extremely busy and short staffed, so call ahead to schedule your delivery appointment (included service) and on the day of delivery, call again to confirm your arrangements. ?Freight companies are not the most reliable and sometimes they show up unannounced. ??

Taking the time needed to properly inspect your freight is extremely important and your responsibility.?Before signing and taking possession, you MUST remove BOTH layers of plastic (outer shrink wrap and yellow inner) to properly inspect for concealed damage. ?If you see damage, call Lewis at 866-792-5288 x402 or my cell (redacted) and we will direct you accordingly. ?If you're not sure, it's better to refuse delivery so we can hold the freight company responsible and NOT involve you in the claims process. ?If you accept a machine with damage, your full cooperation in the claims process is required. ?Not to scare you, just caution you. ?When handled properly, deliveries are smooth and cosmetic damage we can fix. ? ? ?


--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
Re: New K700S Delivery Damage to Sliding Table

 

Sorry to hear this, I feel your pain. I would have been on the phone with Felder Logistics while standing at the terminal. I am sure Felder will handle this.
Re: Problem with Delivery of new Felder K770S

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

So sorry to hear about this. Felder should make it right. Based on my experience Felder will eat the cost. Shipping companies suck?


On Jan 4, 2022, at 7:23 PM, scottshimmin via groups.io <scottshimmin@...> wrote:

?So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).
New K700S Delivery Damage to Sliding Table

 

So, after 9 months of waiting, my new K700S is delivered to the local shipping terminal.? I went to pick it up today, and found the box with the sliding table had half of the crating missing and looked like it had been dragged around a parking lot somewhere.? I am so disappointed and frustrated.? Has anyone had a similar experience, and if so, how do I go about getting a new sliding table for the saw?? This is my first time receiving a large shipment, and I have no experience dealing with such an issue.? I did mark the carrier form with the damage and was provided an exception number (whatever that is).
Re: Removing Transport Locking Device

 

I used an awl. Just tap into the side and pry a little. They¡¯ll pop right out.

Steve
Re: K700S electrical drawings? #electrical #k700s #schematic

 

Hi Imran,
Its a 2001 machine, its getting a bit long in the tooth, but was working fine up to recently.
But yes, there is 24vac present across the start switch, and I've replaced that switch block with a new one, but still no dice.
In this saw, the brake circuitry is all on the one main board, so I'm not sure that can be eliminated easily.
I've trawled through the files section, but failed to find anything to help my cause....

I think if I fail to fix this, I'll abandon all that board and electronics and make up my own star/detla starter and use that, though I'd prefer fix it as it stands....
Thanks!
Seamus
Re: K700S electrical drawings? #electrical #k700s #schematic

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Seamus,

What year is your machine? You may find a schematic in the files section.

In general, you should confirm that one terminal of the start switch has 24vac. If so, your Estop and limit switches are fine. If not at least one in the string is open. Next step would be to confirm that your start switch is working - they do go bad.

If these switches are good and it does not start then, personally I would look to confirm that the abrake board is good.

Imran

On Jan 4, 2022, at 3:32 PM, S.Ryan <seamieryan@...> wrote:

?Hi everyone,
I have a K700S Pro (5.5kW) that will not start, I'm trying to find a schematic diagram of the machine to finure out which contactors are the Main, Star & Delta...
right now only the 'top' contactor is pulling in when the main isolator is turned on, and the +/-15Vdc is present on the logic / main board.
The safety switches look ok, yet I don't see any 24v appear on the contactor coils (A1 & A2) when the green start button is pressed.? I might temporarily 'jumper out' the EMO and safety interlocks next to see if they are causing the problem, but it'd be great if someone had a schematic.
Thanks!
Seamus

K700S electrical drawings? #electrical #k700s #schematic

 
Edited

Hi everyone,
I have a K700S Pro (5.5kW) that will not start, I'm trying to find a schematic diagram of the machine to finure out which contactors are the Main, Star & Delta...
right now only the 'top' contactor is pulling in when the main isolator is turned on, and the +/-15Vdc is present on the logic / main board.
The safety switches look ok, yet I don't see any 24v appear on the contactor coils (A1 & A2) when the green start button is pressed.? I might temporarily 'jumper out' the EMO and safety interlocks next to see if they are causing the problem, but it'd be great if someone had a schematic.
Thanks!
Seamus

This top one pulls in when isolator is switched on....
Re: Felder CF731 won't start #electrical

 

?John,

First, kudos for writing up a detailed msg for describing the problem. One of the best that I can recall.

It appears that you have a felder schematic. If you would like you can email me a copy (reply to sender at bottom of msg) and then we can have a call. I have done this before with others. In the end you may still need to have a talk with felder but the more you know about your machine the better off you will be.

I have 2001KF and my schematic is for CF731 as well and I do not see K4 (just see K1) so I would like to see your schematic.

Regards,

Imran

On Jan 3, 2022, at 9:54 AM, John <j.pisvin@...> wrote:
Re: Felder CF731 won't start #electrical

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Seems like your best course of action is to call Felder technical support. ?They¡¯ve been very helpful for me on my second-hand CF741.

On Jan 3, 2022, at 12:06 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:

I¡¯m not an electrician, but if you have checked that the yellow reverse light works and that it¡¯s not coming on, then you have an open e-stop string or limit switch somewhere. You are going to get crickets on the schematic for the board¡­ nobody is going to have that shy of Felder.

Brian Lamb
blamb11@...





On Jan 3, 2022, at 7:51 AM, John <j.pisvin@...> wrote:

Hello,???????????

I am Jonathan, nice to meet you.

I recently acquired a Felder CF731 from 2001 (three-phased powered, with electrical braking of the motors, I do not have digital control of the height/angles of the tools nor any electrical speed control of the motors). I got it from a person who passed away, so I cannot get any info from the previous owner.
Unfortunately, I cannot start the machine. Any support would be a great help.

When I switch on the machine in reverse shaper mode, the yellow light does not light up. I checked all the security switches (saw cover, planer table and planer dust collector) and all stop buttons. All are working fine and to make 100% sure, I short-circuited them. I also checked the yellow light bulb and it is working well.

I checked the main On/Off switch and the ¡°shaper/planer/saw¡± selector and they are working fine.

There is current going to the board and there is a green LED lighted up close to the microcontroller PIC on the board (not sure about the meaning of this LED, I suppose it is showing that the 24V power supply to the microcontroller is working well??)

I checked the 2 relays on my board (one called ¡°K1¡± for the start of the motor and one called ¡°K4¡± for the braking when motor is stopped, in my understanding) and I noticed that they are different, so I assume that one/or both relays were changed by the previous owner. I noticed a strange thing there:
The relays have 4 in/out connections, 3 are for the 3 phases and are NC (normally closed), one is for the activation of the relay (A1/A2) and one called NC or NO that is (I presume) used to know the state of the relay??(open or closed). I¡¯ll call that last connection the ¡°state control connection¡±. I noticed that the relay for the start of the motor has a ¡°state control connection¡± which is NO (Normally Open) but the relay for the braking is a NC (Normally Closed). I think that both relays are originally supposed to be the same and that the previous owner made a mistake when replacing one?? Also, what about the orientations of the connections, he might have made a mistake, too.

Can anyone who have a similar machine check on his board and confirm the connection of the relays K1 and K4 and the type of the ¡°state control connection¡± (NC or NO). (Note: sometimes the two extremities of the C from ¡°NC¡± are almost touching each other, making it is easy to mix that letter with a O. Better to check with a multimeter if not sure)

My board is a Siemens C98451-D6094-P10-2-86 (number engraved on the board) or C98451-D6094-A20-02-22 (number written on the white label sticked on the board).?
Also, if by chance somebody have the electrical drawing of the board (not the connection drawing provided by Felder with the machine, but the one of the board circuit), it would also be helpful!

Thanks so much for your support,
Best regards,
Jonathan
<Felder_CF731_motherboard.jpg>
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