Re: planer power drive height adjustment?
Ameer,
My first step would be to check with Felder if U 2.1 is normal or an error code. I do not know if the machine even displays error codes. Could be software version, who knows?
If you call Felder you can also ask for their opinion on what might be going on.
Imran
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 12:48 PM, Ameer N. <highentropy@...> wrote: ?Imran, Immediately upon power up my display shows "U 2.1" for about 2 seconds. Then it will display either inches or mm. If I want to change the units, I have to power off and then hold the reset button while powering back on. Sometimes the calibration is lost and sometimes it is not, however it feels like most of the time the calibration is lost when powering back up. Investigating the reset button is a good idea, as that's how it would change between units, perhaps something is happening there? Though once the AD741 is powered on the units aren't changed or reset. <IMG_6292.jpeg> -Ameer
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Festool battery is 1555Whr. So only good for little over 1 hr runtime for the 1300W saw even less for 2500W model. Maybe that is enough for intermittent use.
I think besides checking with OEM options are step up transformer 3KW model draws 15A but not sure how much it weighs.?
A good quality inverter generator is around 100#. If you can rig it for easy mobility that maybe another option. Added benefit is that you can work without power.
Imran?
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 1:26 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote: ?I don't think you could replace the motor with other than OEM.? This isn't a standard form factor generic motor, it's an OEM thing with specialized housing, integrated right angle reduction gearing, electronic controls, etc.
I would actually call this a "50Hz tool", not just a tool with a 50Hz motor.? ? There's more to modern tools than a motor and a on/off switch, and while it might work OK on 60Hz,? I would advise against simply assuming that.? I would reach out to Mafell and ask them.? Obviously they are not going to recommend it, and probably they are just going to say "not supported", but it's worth asking at least, as you might get lucky and get a more nuanced engineering perspective.
The Festool battery seems attractive in lots of respects, thought pricey ($4k).? Even if you can run on 60Hz, finding a dyer plug and/or wiring cord directly into electrical panel can be a nuisance, though it depends a lot on job specifics, and whether the convenience of a $4k battery makes sense is a question only you could answer I think.?
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Re: format 4 kappa 450 Panel Saw help required
Please check emergency stops and all limit switches as your first step.
Imran
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Re: Any experts on 3 phase power issues?
I am measuring after the breaker.? Swapping lines out of the breaker does not change the measurement so the issue is before the breaker.? When I first
measured currents Leg ¡°B¡± was low.? It was low for the first month or so.? Measured all three phase motors individually this way and all were always low on Leg ¡°B¡±.? Some days Leg ¡°B¡± was low by 20%, one day 49% low.? The even that caused me to measure the
currents was a new ABB VFD that would fault.? First week spent diagnosing with ABB Techs.? This is when we did things like moving wires and lots of measurement.? It took another week to get the utility to send out a tech.? They send a ¡°troubleshooting¡± tech
who came with the same Fluke Multimeter and he measured voltages and said all good.? The first tech clearly new nothing about 3 phase power.? Pushed the utility and they sent a second tech, same thing.? Escalated and they sent a third ¡°troubleshooting¡± tech
who at least new about 3 phase power.? He couldn¡¯t do more as they don¡¯t issue these techs more than a multimeter.? But he was able to issue a ticket for a ¡°power quality¡± tech to come out with a power quality meter.? Then it took nearly 2 more weeks to get
him out.? During that time I measured currents nearly every day and Leg ¡°B¡± was low 20-40% every day in that time fame.
?
I finally got a date and time for the power quality tech to come out and the night before I went out and measured and oddly Leg ¡°B¡± was no longer low
on any machine.? I measure every day and the currents are never very close to each other.? One would expect Legs ¡°A¡± and ¡°B¡± to measure the same and leg ¡°C¡± would vary some.? But now I see Leg ¡°B:¡± as always higher than Leg ¡°A¡±.
?
Nothing has changed in my shop.? I¡¯ve done the measurements with all single phase loads off and each motor isolated so the motor I am measuring is the
only load.
?
Based on the power quality meter the voltage relationships are perfectly 120 degrees apart.? Moving wires on the breaker (different windings on leg
B) does not change the data.? If the voltages are correct and the phasing of the voltage are correct, and changing the motor wiring does not change the current measurement, all that must be left is inductance or capacitance differences between legs from the
utility??
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of mark thomas
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 3:54 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Any experts on 3 phase power issues?
?
Joe, one thing that is confusing is that when you first reported this issue in June, you measured:
"With leg A I get 20A leg B 15A and leg C 19A...?also I have two other 3 phase machines that run and the
currents measure the same on all three legs for those machines"
So this is no longer true?? (would be an extraordinary coincidence)
I want to be 100% sure I understand your measurements.? Can you look at the attached diagram, and confirm that with no other loads (shut off pool, A/C etc) the following is true:
1) With any of the three motors running, you measure ~20% low current on one leg.? Let's call the low leg L2 (for a 3P load, it doesn't make any difference whether the low leg the is wild leg or not, so it doesn't matter which leg you call L1 or L2 of L3, it
only matters that we're consistent)
2) If you swap L1 and L2 leads to any motor, the low current follows.? For example, if you swap? L1 and L2 on each motor, the the current meter readings will be:
L3: N amps
L2: N amps
L1: 0.8N amps
If this is all true, then you have proven that there is a utility problem.??
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I don't think you could replace the motor with other than OEM.? This isn't a standard form factor generic motor, it's an OEM thing with specialized housing, integrated right angle reduction gearing, electronic controls, etc.
I would actually call this a "50Hz tool", not just a tool with a 50Hz motor.? ? There's more to modern tools than a motor and a on/off switch, and while it might work OK on 60Hz,? I would advise against simply assuming that.? I would reach out to Mafell and ask them.? Obviously they are not going to recommend it, and probably they are just going to say "not supported", but it's worth asking at least, as you might get lucky and get a more nuanced engineering perspective.
The Festool battery seems attractive in lots of respects, thought pricey ($4k).? Even if you can run on 60Hz, finding a dyer plug and/or wiring cord directly into electrical panel can be a nuisance, though it depends a lot on job specifics, and whether the convenience of a $4k battery makes sense is a question only you could answer I think.?
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Re: format 4 kappa 450 Panel Saw help required
Hi
Hope all is well
Its great be part of such an informative group ..
I have a problem with a used kappa 4 format 450 panel saw I purchased
The machine was running previously and now all of a sudden it just will not switch on, seems like it's just dead. Can anyone tell me what step I should take next?... We rechecked the 3 phase plug and wire connection and all seems fine but the saw will not power up
Please send me suggestions
Your help will be appreciated
Many thanks Regards Yaseen South Africa Whatsapp +27823052949
-------- Original message -------- From: "Ameer N." <highentropy@...> Date: Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 7:26 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] planer power drive height adjustment? Imran,
Great follow up! I can see how that would really get the machine dialed in at 20mm.
My machine loses calibration every time I turn it off, perhaps this is because I run the machine off of a RPC? Therefore planing a board to 20mm each time and checking with calipers would leave me with a LOT of 20mm boards :P
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A step-up / step-down transformer should solve your dilemma I think. Here¡¯s an example:?
On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 10:15 AM Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression < airtightclamps@...> wrote: Tom ?love My Erica,mine is 240 though. And over 30 years old. Designing and building for 50 years On Jul 27, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?If you can get the machine in 240V three phase, then a VFD in a small enclosure that takes 120V input and outputs 240V three phase is pretty easy to configure. I don¡¯t know what the HP of these units are, but the VFD¡¯s with 120V input might go up to 2hp or so, plenty of them at 1hp, so you would have to look around.
On Jul 27, 2021, at 7:39 AM, tom@... wrote:
Greetings!?
I had considered posting this in the Mafell forum, but I suspect there's a little more electrical aptitude here. I've been using a Mafell ERIKA 70 for several years now for my on-site work, and I just can't say enough good things about it. For those not familiar with the machines, this video gives a brief overview of pull-push saws:??They are sort of like a portable sliding saw, with the option to either rip or crosscut depending on how you configure it. Changing configurations only takes a couple seconds, and for crosscutting I've found it far more accurate than a miter saw.?
While I am trying to perform more work in my Shop, I think I am destined to spend a sizable portion of my career performing work on-site, so having a good portable solution is important.?
Anyways, with the recent minor facelift of the Erika line, Mafell has discontinued the 120V option on the Erika 70, leaving all of the Erika models now in only 240V. I believe that the machines destined for the NA market are 240V 60Hz, "stock" machines are 240V 50Hz. So, I'm going to jealously guard my 120V Erika 70, but I can see the writing on the walls, and was wondering what my options might be in the future should I either:
?1. Need to replace my Erika 70 120V with a Erika 70 or 85 240V 60Hz, or:
2. Acquire a Erika 60 240V 50Hz for those small jobs where the 70/85 is overkill
My requirements are:
-- Need to be able to work on-site in residential settings, with access only to 120V 60hz power. Needs to supply 240V 60Hz (50Hz would be nice for the Erika 60), the Erika 85 draws 2,500 watts, the Erika 60 draws 1,300 watts
-- Needs to be a portable solution (preferably <40 lbs)
-- Needs to be a solution that is weather tolerant (needs to be able to handle snow, drizzle, heat, cold, etc.....)
I suppose the simplest solution would be something like the Festool Sys-Powerstation??, but I wonder if there are portable step-up transformers or "hardened" VFD solutions? In terms of the Festool Sys-Powerstation, I wonder if anybody would be willing to work with me to get a 240V model imported to NA (please message me privately for this). Or, am I simply out of luck and need to start going with the flow, reverting back to a miter saw and table saw (say it ain't so!!)??
Anyways, I know there's a lot of creativity here, and would be curious what thoughts folks might have. Thank you in advance for any tips or advice.....?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Tom ?love My Erica,mine is 240 though. And over 30 years old. Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 10:57 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? If you can get the machine in 240V three phase, then a VFD in a small enclosure that takes 120V input and outputs 240V three phase is pretty easy to configure. I don¡¯t know what the HP of these units are, but the VFD¡¯s with 120V input might go up to 2hp or so, plenty of them at 1hp, so you would have to look around.
On Jul 27, 2021, at 7:39 AM, tom@... wrote:
Greetings!?
I had considered posting this in the Mafell forum, but I suspect there's a little more electrical aptitude here. I've been using a Mafell ERIKA 70 for several years now for my on-site work, and I just can't say enough good things about it. For those not familiar with the machines, this video gives a brief overview of pull-push saws:??They are sort of like a portable sliding saw, with the option to either rip or crosscut depending on how you configure it. Changing configurations only takes a couple seconds, and for crosscutting I've found it far more accurate than a miter saw.?
While I am trying to perform more work in my Shop, I think I am destined to spend a sizable portion of my career performing work on-site, so having a good portable solution is important.?
Anyways, with the recent minor facelift of the Erika line, Mafell has discontinued the 120V option on the Erika 70, leaving all of the Erika models now in only 240V. I believe that the machines destined for the NA market are 240V 60Hz, "stock" machines are 240V 50Hz. So, I'm going to jealously guard my 120V Erika 70, but I can see the writing on the walls, and was wondering what my options might be in the future should I either:
?1. Need to replace my Erika 70 120V with a Erika 70 or 85 240V 60Hz, or:
2. Acquire a Erika 60 240V 50Hz for those small jobs where the 70/85 is overkill
My requirements are:
-- Need to be able to work on-site in residential settings, with access only to 120V 60hz power. Needs to supply 240V 60Hz (50Hz would be nice for the Erika 60), the Erika 85 draws 2,500 watts, the Erika 60 draws 1,300 watts
-- Needs to be a portable solution (preferably <40 lbs)
-- Needs to be a solution that is weather tolerant (needs to be able to handle snow, drizzle, heat, cold, etc.....)
I suppose the simplest solution would be something like the Festool Sys-Powerstation??, but I wonder if there are portable step-up transformers or "hardened" VFD solutions? In terms of the Festool Sys-Powerstation, I wonder if anybody would be willing to work with me to get a 240V model imported to NA (please message me privately for this). Or, am I simply out of luck and need to start going with the flow, reverting back to a miter saw and table saw (say it ain't so!!)??
Anyways, I know there's a lot of creativity here, and would be curious what thoughts folks might have. Thank you in advance for any tips or advice.....?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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This looks very similar to my KF700 from 2002. I have the 1200mm slider which doesn't even have an outrigger. Original owner paid $8,500 for the KF700 and an AF-22 dust collector so Imran is pretty spot on with his guess.
Is the arbor dado capable? Does it have a scoring blade? Does it come with shaper hood & fence? Is there a crosscut fence? Does the owner have a router spindle? These are all questions I had when I picked up mine.
-Ameer
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Re: planer power drive height adjustment?
Imran, Immediately upon power up my display shows "U 2.1" for about 2 seconds. Then it will display either inches or mm. If I want to change the units, I have to power off and then hold the reset button while powering back on. Sometimes the calibration is lost and sometimes it is not, however it feels like most of the time the calibration is lost when powering back up. Investigating the reset button is a good idea, as that's how it would change between units, perhaps something is happening there? Though once the AD741 is powered on the units aren't changed or reset.  -Ameer
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My guess is that this new cost $8K give or take a few.
Imran
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 12:01 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote: ?That¡¯s not an eight or nine foot stroke machine, that¡¯s the 2 meter slider, so about 78¡±. That changes things quite a bit, still a great machine for solid wood processing, but not so great if you want to do sheet goods as you can¡¯t rip an 8 foot sheet very easily, it can be done with an accessory sliding carriage, but not something you¡¯d want to do on a daily basis. Brian Lamb blamb11@... www.lambtoolworks.com On Jul 27, 2021, at 8:00 AM, keith meyer <Meyer.keith25@...> wrote:
Will be able to go play with the machine this weekend. Don¡¯t know all the accessories but will dig around. Thank you all for the help. Any things further in particular I should look for feel free to chime in.
I know the unit was kept in excellent condition
<IMG_4831.JPG>
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That¡¯s not an eight or nine foot stroke machine, that¡¯s the 2 meter slider, so about 78¡±. That changes things quite a bit, still a great machine for solid wood processing, but not so great if you want to do sheet goods as you can¡¯t rip an 8 foot sheet very easily, it can be done with an accessory sliding carriage, but not something you¡¯d want to do on a daily basis.
Brian Lamb
blamb11@...
www.lambtoolworks.com
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 8:00 AM, keith meyer <Meyer.keith25@...> wrote:
Will be able to go play with the machine this weekend. Don¡¯t know all the accessories but will dig around. Thank you all for the help. Any things further in particular I should look for feel free to chime in.
I know the unit was kept in excellent condition
<IMG_4831.JPG>
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If you can get the machine in 240V three phase, then a VFD in a small enclosure that takes 120V input and outputs 240V three phase is pretty easy to configure. I don¡¯t know what the HP of these units are, but the VFD¡¯s with 120V input might go up to 2hp or so, plenty of them at 1hp, so you would have to look around.
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 7:39 AM, tom@... wrote:
Greetings!?
I had considered posting this in the Mafell forum, but I suspect there's a little more electrical aptitude here. I've been using a Mafell ERIKA 70 for several years now for my on-site work, and I just can't say enough good things about it. For those not familiar with the machines, this video gives a brief overview of pull-push saws:??They are sort of like a portable sliding saw, with the option to either rip or crosscut depending on how you configure it. Changing configurations only takes a couple seconds, and for crosscutting I've found it far more accurate than a miter saw.?
While I am trying to perform more work in my Shop, I think I am destined to spend a sizable portion of my career performing work on-site, so having a good portable solution is important.?
Anyways, with the recent minor facelift of the Erika line, Mafell has discontinued the 120V option on the Erika 70, leaving all of the Erika models now in only 240V. I believe that the machines destined for the NA market are 240V 60Hz, "stock" machines are 240V 50Hz. So, I'm going to jealously guard my 120V Erika 70, but I can see the writing on the walls, and was wondering what my options might be in the future should I either:
?1. Need to replace my Erika 70 120V with a Erika 70 or 85 240V 60Hz, or:
2. Acquire a Erika 60 240V 50Hz for those small jobs where the 70/85 is overkill
My requirements are:
-- Need to be able to work on-site in residential settings, with access only to 120V 60hz power. Needs to supply 240V 60Hz (50Hz would be nice for the Erika 60), the Erika 85 draws 2,500 watts, the Erika 60 draws 1,300 watts
-- Needs to be a portable solution (preferably <40 lbs)
-- Needs to be a solution that is weather tolerant (needs to be able to handle snow, drizzle, heat, cold, etc.....)
I suppose the simplest solution would be something like the Festool Sys-Powerstation??, but I wonder if there are portable step-up transformers or "hardened" VFD solutions? In terms of the Festool Sys-Powerstation, I wonder if anybody would be willing to work with me to get a 240V model imported to NA (please message me privately for this). Or, am I simply out of luck and need to start going with the flow, reverting back to a miter saw and table saw (say it ain't so!!)??
Anyways, I know there's a lot of creativity here, and would be curious what thoughts folks might have. Thank you in advance for any tips or advice.....?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: This years IWFS thoughts
We went to the show and were both fairly disappointed. The huge machinery booths were still there, but most of the smaller people were absent, or had a minimal booth presence, less machines and not the usual variety.
It¡¯s always interesting to see all the hardware suppliers and Hafele, Salice, KV, and Rev-a-shelf had a booth about 1/3 the ¡°normal¡± amount of displays. ?Blum, who is usually the most interesting for us, had a huge booth, a couple of signs, with about three tables, a half dozen employees/salesmen and absolutely no product.?
Attendance was way down too, at least the day we were there. I usually have to stop and wait to get through the crowds with my wheelchair, and while I still had to dodge a few people who weren¡¯t paying any attention to where they were walking, it was never as crowded as most years. Reminded me of the terrible shows back in the 2007-2009 time frame.
It was nice to see a few friends and catch up, but the show itself wasn¡¯t what I would call a great one, no new and wild products¡ well, other than the Felder PCS saw, which was really nice, but I missed all the little new gizmo¡¯s we usually see from the upstarts. Was interested in seeing some dust collection and Oneida only had their little Dust Deputy shopvac stuff and one 4¡± plastic cyclone, no big machines at all. None of the other dust collection players were even there.
Hopefully in two years it will be back to ¡°normal¡±.
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Was set on going to the show this year - but the potential issue(s) of choosing/discussing the IWFS in Vegas vs. Vacation (with a potential layover in Vegas...for the show ;)) with the spousal unit was not one I thought wise to contemplate.? ?PK, thanks for your bullet pointed list - yes, that Martin and Altendorf stuff is drool worthy ;) and let me know when you find that magical floor space genie.
KRP
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If you love your current saw, just find a good source?for the replacement motor when you need it. And maybe take your current saw to a motor shop to see if they can do repairs if it needs in the future - they will likely tell you replacement on these smaller motors are cheaper and make more sense.
If you need to get a new one, an power converter box makes sense but the amp draw on the 2500w unit will overpower standard 110v circuits, I'd consider doing what floor sanding guys do and hardwire into a break in a panel or find the nearest water heater/dryer plug and manage a heavy, expensive, large extension?cable of questionable?legality.
Power converter box from Dayton (Grainger distributed) as quick example:
On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 9:39 AM < tom@...> wrote: Greetings!?
I had considered posting this in the Mafell forum, but I suspect there's a little more electrical aptitude here. I've been using a Mafell ERIKA 70 for several years now for my on-site work, and I just can't say enough good things about it. For those not familiar with the machines, this video gives a brief overview of pull-push saws:??They are sort of like a portable sliding saw, with the option to either rip or crosscut depending on how you configure it. Changing configurations only takes a couple seconds, and for crosscutting I've found it far more accurate than a miter saw.?
While I am trying to perform more work in my Shop, I think I am destined to spend a sizable portion of my career performing work on-site, so having a good portable solution is important.?
Anyways, with the recent minor facelift of the Erika line, Mafell has discontinued the 120V option on the Erika 70, leaving all of the Erika models now in only 240V. I believe that the machines destined for the NA market are 240V 60Hz, "stock" machines are 240V 50Hz. So, I'm going to jealously guard my 120V Erika 70, but I can see the writing on the walls, and was wondering what my options might be in the future should I either:
?1. Need to replace my Erika 70 120V with a Erika 70 or 85 240V 60Hz, or:
2. Acquire a Erika 60 240V 50Hz for those small jobs where the 70/85 is overkill
My requirements are:
-- Need to be able to work on-site in residential settings, with access only to 120V 60hz power. Needs to supply 240V 60Hz (50Hz would be nice for the Erika 60), the Erika 85 draws 2,500 watts, the Erika 60 draws 1,300 watts
-- Needs to be a portable solution (preferably <40 lbs)
-- Needs to be a solution that is weather tolerant (needs to be able to handle snow, drizzle, heat, cold, etc.....)
I suppose the simplest solution would be something like the Festool Sys-Powerstation??, but I wonder if there are portable step-up transformers or "hardened" VFD solutions? In terms of the Festool Sys-Powerstation, I wonder if anybody would be willing to work with me to get a 240V model imported to NA (please message me privately for this). Or, am I simply out of luck and need to start going with the flow, reverting back to a miter saw and table saw (say it ain't so!!)??
Anyways, I know there's a lot of creativity here, and would be curious what thoughts folks might have. Thank you in advance for any tips or advice.....?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Will be able to go play with the machine this weekend. Don¡¯t know all the accessories but will dig around. Thank you all for the help. Any things further in particular I should look for feel free to chime in.
I know the unit was kept in excellent condition
|
Greetings!?
I had considered posting this in the Mafell forum, but I suspect there's a little more electrical aptitude here. I've been using a Mafell ERIKA 70 for several years now for my on-site work, and I just can't say enough good things about it. For those not familiar with the machines, this video gives a brief overview of pull-push saws:??They are sort of like a portable sliding saw, with the option to either rip or crosscut depending on how you configure it. Changing configurations only takes a couple seconds, and for crosscutting I've found it far more accurate than a miter saw.?
While I am trying to perform more work in my Shop, I think I am destined to spend a sizable portion of my career performing work on-site, so having a good portable solution is important.?
Anyways, with the recent minor facelift of the Erika line, Mafell has discontinued the 120V option on the Erika 70, leaving all of the Erika models now in only 240V. I believe that the machines destined for the NA market are 240V 60Hz, "stock" machines are 240V 50Hz. So, I'm going to jealously guard my 120V Erika 70, but I can see the writing on the walls, and was wondering what my options might be in the future should I either:
?1. Need to replace my Erika 70 120V with a Erika 70 or 85 240V 60Hz, or:
2. Acquire a Erika 60 240V 50Hz for those small jobs where the 70/85 is overkill
My requirements are:
- Need to be able to work on-site in residential settings, with access only to 120V 60hz power.
- Needs to supply 240V 60Hz (50Hz would be nice for the Erika 60), the Erika 85 draws 2,500 watts, the Erika 60 draws 1,300 watts
- Needs to be a portable solution (preferably <40 lbs)
- Needs to be a solution that is weather tolerant (needs to be able to handle snow, drizzle, heat, cold, etc.....)
- If it¡¯s a battery solution, I can charge 240V in my Shop overnight
- I am usually able to prep most of my materials ahead of time in my Shop, so the on-site work is mostly ripping and trimming cuts. This is a low-volume, one-person show, so not terribly intensive use
I suppose the simplest solution would be something like the Festool Sys-Powerstation??, but I wonder if there are portable step-up transformers or "hardened" VFD solutions? In terms of the Festool Sys-Powerstation, I wonder if anybody would be willing to work with me to get a 240V model imported to NA (please message me privately for this). Or, am I simply out of luck and need to start going with the flow, reverting back to a miter saw and table saw (say it ain't so!!)??
Anyways, I know there's a lot of creativity here, and would be curious what thoughts folks might have. Thank you in advance for any tips or advice.....?
(Edit: clarified requirements)?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Congratulations! I'm sure you're going to love those!? As for the scoring blade, it definitely could be "hiding" somewhere. I found several smaller items bolted down to the pallet underneath the cabinet of my machine when it arrived.?
Enjoy your vacation, knowing you've got more to look forward to after your return home!
Bob
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Re: Helping friend determine value of kf700 pro 2002
Keith,
I should have mentioned that my KF is a 2002 and I bought it new. Xroll slider is desirable and a machine with Xroll will command a higher price but the older slider with 2 slots has it¡¯s benefits, especially if you intend to use short xcut fence. I can¡¯t tell if mine has degraded over the years.?I have both sliders, pre Xroll on KF and Xroll on K975 and I believe both will last my lifetime.
David Best just put a video out. If you can check your friend¡¯s machine and confirm following are good or can be adjusted to be good, you will never mess with the trunion (from survival guide):
Lack of dado is the key feature missing from this vintage of machine.
Imran?
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On Jul 27, 2021, at 8:44 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? Keith,
There are many variables and accessories making it hard to use sale data. A machine used by a hobbiest is infinitely more desirable. Occasionally, a machine may come for sale from a business that for some reason did not get used but in general I avoid that.
Keep in mind that this is a big investment for most and these are hard/expensive to transport. You can easily spend $500 to check a machine out and $1000 to transport. If you are in CA, these number may be considerably less as most machines come up in that market. So don¡¯t discount the fact that you have found something ¡°known¡± and I assume it is close by.
Here is a machine that recently sold. I helped this family with pricing their equipment. If you need to contact me my number is 765-210-7645. Just to be clear for folks here and you this help is offered free of charge.
Here is a lesser machine currently at an auction ending in few days:
Here is my take on your question. A fair price for a well kept machine should be 65% of what your friend paid for it. Another way, to arrive at the price is to price a new machine and you should not be paying more than 50% of new.
Hope this helps.
Imran
On Jul 27, 2021, at 7:39 AM, keith meyer <Meyer.keith25@...> wrote:
? Thanks so much for the feedback. I think there is just The apprehension of going from something I know (cabinet saw)to a new way of working with a machine like the Felder. I will be able to work with the machine at my friends shop to Practice on it. Really appreciate the help On Jul 26, 2021, at 6:37 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? Slider vs. cabinet saw is a no brainer, the quality of work goes up considerably and the speed that you can complete it drops dramatically. The safety factor on a slider is worth considering too, with clamps to hold the material in place, you never need to get your hands close to a blade, or stand in line with possible kickback.
?Thank you so much. I will look at the slider to verify the size. I am just in the process of determining whether or not to get a song like this in place of my cabinets. I am a hobbyist bud appreciate good quality but I am still searching the pros and cons of this versus a cabinet saw. Any direction you can send me would be greatly appreciated. On Jul 26, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? I have a 2001 machine¡ is your slider 8 foot or 9 foot? You can¡¯t really cut 8¡¯ sheets on an 8¡¯ machine without having the blade at full height and a 12¡± blade. I have some troubles with the 9 foot slider and a fence with clamps.
As for worth, based on older sales, I¡¯d guess in the $7500 range, but with the current situation on extended deliveries, that might go up a bit, especially depending upon accessories and condition.
looking into purchasing a ?KF 700 pro, 2002 model from the friend and trying to determine value of it. It has the 8 foot sliding table and numerous attachments. It is in excellent shape and has been well cared for. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Helping friend determine value of kf700 pro 2002
First, i dont think you will look back once you get the slider and use it for an hour, Keith. It is a better designed saw in just about every way with two minor/major drawbacks. One, the physical and working footprint is sometimes substantially larger than a cabinet saw. Two, rips longer than the stroke of your sliding table are annoying on a slider. An 8-9' machine would eliminate?the latter critique. It is not often i rip things longer than 9'. As for the real estate, if you have the room, then its not a problem. If you dont have the room, the outrigger and crosscut fence pop off the Felder machines pretty easily, which frees up a lot of real estate when not in use. I do this from time to time, because my basement shop is cramped. Ive never had an issue with my crosscut fence being out of alignment after replacing the outrigger. When I purchased my KF700, i sold my jessem router table, delta unisaw, festool mft, and festool kapex. All of those tools combined occupied about the same footprint, and their proceeds covered 50-70% of the Felder's cost. I would describe the KF700 as infinitely more capable than that collection of tools.?
As to the 2002 KF700 in question, im sure its a well-cared for machine, but you would almost have to pay me to take it. That is pre-xroll, which significantly decreases its value to anyone looking at it. I havent used this vintage of Felder, but im sure its fine in operation; however, you are a year or two before Felder went to a design that it still utilizes 17 years later. Second, no dado option on that vintage, i believe. This is kind of an issue for me if this is going to be my only saw. Finally, as others point out, accessories, single phase vs 3 phase, and condition play an enormous role in determining market value. I havent?followed stuff as closely the last year, and we are definitely in a different world, but that machine two years ago would have been $3,500+/- with limited accessories.?
Patrick
On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 8:44 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Keith,
There are many variables and accessories making it hard to use sale data. A machine used by a hobbiest is infinitely more desirable. Occasionally, a machine may come for sale from a business that for some reason did not get used but in general I avoid that.
Keep in mind that this is a big investment for most and these are hard/expensive to transport. You can easily spend $500 to check a machine out and $1000 to transport. If you are in CA, these number may be considerably less as most machines come up in that market. So don¡¯t discount the fact that you have found something ¡°known¡± and I assume it is close by.
Here is a machine that recently sold. I helped this family with pricing their equipment. If you need to contact me my number is 765-210-7645. Just to be clear for folks here and you this help is offered free of charge.
Here is a lesser machine currently at an auction ending in few days:
Here is my take on your question. A fair price for a well kept machine should be 65% of what your friend paid for it. Another way, to arrive at the price is to price a new machine and you should not be paying more than 50% of new.
Hope this helps.
Imran ?Thanks so much for the feedback. I think there is just The apprehension of going from something I know (cabinet saw)to a new way of working with a machine like the Felder. I will be able to work with the machine at my friends shop to Practice on it. Really appreciate the help On Jul 26, 2021, at 6:37 PM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?Slider vs. cabinet saw is a no brainer, the quality of work goes up considerably and the speed that you can complete it drops dramatically. The safety factor on a slider is worth considering too, with clamps to hold the material in place, you never need to get your hands close to a blade, or stand in line with possible kickback.
?Thank you so much. I will look at the slider to verify the size. I am just in the process of determining whether or not to get a song like this in place of my cabinets. I am a hobbyist bud appreciate good quality but I am still searching the pros and cons of this versus a cabinet saw. Any direction you can send me would be greatly appreciated. On Jul 26, 2021, at 8:39 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
?I have a 2001 machine¡ is your slider 8 foot or 9 foot? You can¡¯t really cut 8¡¯ sheets on an 8¡¯ machine without having the blade at full height and a 12¡± blade. I have some troubles with the 9 foot slider and a fence with clamps.
As for worth, based on older sales, I¡¯d guess in the $7500 range, but with the current situation on extended deliveries, that might go up a bit, especially depending upon accessories and condition.
looking into purchasing a ?KF 700 pro, 2002 model from the friend and trying to determine value of it. It has the 8 foot sliding table and numerous attachments. It is in excellent shape and has been well cared for. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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imran
Joe Jensen
Tom Gensmer