Re: Sale Of Felder Equipment
Edward,
Did you sell this equipment?
PK
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
My go to sheetmetal tool for any cut off work is a Matebo? 4.5 right angle grinder with 1/32 ¡° by 6¡± cut off blades nothing else matches up. An anvil comes in pretty handy along with heavy pipe to beat on the material to expand. I tend to build assemblies van stone the ends and ring flange. mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:21 AM, Brian Lamb <blamb11@...> wrote:
? I did find the occasional tight fitting or dented pipe¡ so a block of wood and a ball peen hammer and you can flare and stretch the metal slightly to help with assembly. I do have the crimping tool that puts the ribs in the pipe to shrink it down, but the heavier stuff doesn¡¯t react to that very well and unless the airflow is going in the right direction I¡¯d rather expand than contract the material to get it to fit.
On Jul 15, 2021, at 8:04 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote:
I appreciate all the comments in this thread. I am using the correct materials and understand how to put it together, but I am having the exact issue that Jeff describes, and yes, the materials I ordered came from Blastgate also. They were terrific about making up some metric sized fittings for me, and I¡¯ll contact them again as I work through the whole project. I do think there are specific offending pieces¡ªsome sleeves meant to put two fittings together. Some fit and some don¡¯t.
Yesterday, I spent a few hours and applied some Try Hard and managed to sort through the various parts and have more success. So with all the encouragement and a dose of patience, I think I¡¯ll get ¡®er dun. Probably another order from Blastgate, too.
Bird On Jul 15, 2021, at 9:40 AM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
I like the tape as I can slit it and swap out easily.? When I was doing piping the Blastgate Co fittings were undersized and inside on both ends.? I don't know if that is still the case ( couldn't access their website ).? I had the bast luck with Oneida and Kencraft fittings but every once in a while one was oversized a little.? Dave
I have actually regretted using the tape instead of a sealant¡? On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Roltgen <9namkcits@...> wrote:
?Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with?actual?duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff?
|
Re: OT -- Cool Tool: Fractal Vise
These are a couple gadgets I use occasionally not nearly adaptable.
 Mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Cliff Rohrabacher, Esq. <rohrabacher@...> wrote:
?
here is an antique one being restored
I guess this has been around a long time
On 7/14/21 1:44 AM, mark thomas wrote:
If you like fine tools, check out more of his stuff.? ?He makes
the finest tools for engravers in the world.??
Another hobby is restoring old machine tools that he uses in his
work and tool manufacture.? Words can't do justice to his machine
tool restorations, from swiss watchmaker's tools to the giant
Cincinnati #3 mill, a glimpse of which he shows here:?
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
I did find the occasional tight fitting or dented pipe¡ so a block of wood and a ball peen hammer and you can flare and stretch the metal slightly to help with assembly. I do have the crimping tool that puts the ribs in the pipe to shrink it down, but the heavier stuff doesn¡¯t react to that very well and unless the airflow is going in the right direction I¡¯d rather expand than contract the material to get it to fit.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 15, 2021, at 8:04 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote:
I appreciate all the comments in this thread. I am using the correct materials and understand how to put it together, but I am having the exact issue that Jeff describes, and yes, the materials I ordered came from Blastgate also. They were terrific about making up some metric sized fittings for me, and I¡¯ll contact them again as I work through the whole project. I do think there are specific offending pieces¡ªsome sleeves meant to put two fittings together. Some fit and some don¡¯t.
Yesterday, I spent a few hours and applied some Try Hard and managed to sort through the various parts and have more success. So with all the encouragement and a dose of patience, I think I¡¯ll get ¡®er dun. Probably another order from Blastgate, too.
Bird On Jul 15, 2021, at 9:40 AM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
I like the tape as I can slit it and swap out easily.? When I was doing piping the Blastgate Co fittings were undersized and inside on both ends.? I don't know if that is still the case ( couldn't access their website ).? I had the bast luck with Oneida and Kencraft fittings but every once in a while one was oversized a little.? Dave
I have actually regretted using the tape instead of a sealant¡? On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Roltgen <9namkcits@...> wrote:
?Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with?actual?duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff?
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
I appreciate all the comments in this thread. I am using the correct materials and understand how to put it together, but I am having the exact issue that Jeff describes, and yes, the materials I ordered came from Blastgate also. They were terrific about making up some metric sized fittings for me, and I¡¯ll contact them again as I work through the whole project. I do think there are specific offending pieces¡ªsome sleeves meant to put two fittings together. Some fit and some don¡¯t.
Yesterday, I spent a few hours and applied some Try Hard and managed to sort through the various parts and have more success. So with all the encouragement and a dose of patience, I think I¡¯ll get ¡®er dun. Probably another order from Blastgate, too.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 15, 2021, at 9:40 AM, David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
I like the tape as I can slit it and swap out easily.? When I was doing piping the Blastgate Co fittings were undersized and inside on both ends.? I don't know if that is still the case ( couldn't access their website ).? I had the bast luck with Oneida and Kencraft fittings but every once in a while one was oversized a little.? Dave
I have actually regretted using the tape instead of a sealant¡? On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Roltgen <9namkcits@...> wrote:
?Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with?actual?duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff?
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
I like the tape as I can slit it and swap out easily.? When I was doing piping the Blastgate Co fittings were undersized and inside on both ends.? I don't know if that is still the case ( couldn't access their website ).? I had the bast luck with Oneida and
Kencraft fittings but every once in a while one was oversized a little.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I have actually regretted using the tape instead of a sealant¡?
On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Roltgen <9namkcits@...> wrote:
?Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (Blastgateco.com), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and
nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with
actual duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time
you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
I have actually regretted using the tape instead of a sealant¡?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 15, 2021, at 10:10 AM, Jeff Roltgen <9namkcits@...> wrote:
?Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (Blastgateco.com), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with actual duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Bird,
?You should expect any wye, blastgate or union to accept spiral pipe of same dimension to slip right over. Perhaps a little pushing/twisting, but nothing too tough.?
That being said, I recently expanded, adding a wye and more new spiral pipe. They did not get along. Contacted seller (Blastgateco.com), whom I've dealt with for years, and asked what changed - is there a new sleeve required between these pieces now? Pipe and nipple on wye were precisely the same size.? I manipulated (slit) offending wye to expedite the job. Seller response:
No, nothing's changed, should not need to do this, and refunded me the full purchase price of offending piece.?
So:
1- Expect? spiral pipe to slide reasonably well onto Wyes, Elbows, unions and blastgates. Always has been and currently should be the case - just try to buy all from same source.
2- Contact your vendor if experiencing problems
3- Once properly fit, use a few self-tapping sheet metal screws, and seal with actual duct tape, like Nashua 357, which will stick and stay put. You'll find it at local Hdwe store, sometimes with stove pipe fittings, as it has a high heat rating. Resist temptation to apply silicone or other sealants, or you'll regret it next time you go to re-configure system.?
Good luck!
jeff
|
Re: Would you buy a combo Shaper/Saw?
t45cal,
I am picking that saw up on Friday morning.? Looks great and the seller seems like a nice guy.
Thanks to all of you, I started looking at other options...? now the 4 week wait for the phase perfect...
PK
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Thanks, I¡¯ve always wondered the same thing. This thread was prompting me to search google and you just saved me a rat hole
?
?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of imranindiana via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 2:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] working with spiral pipe
?
I was always curious about smaller number gauge being bigger wire in diameter until I read sometime ago it was due to drawing attempts. 1 gauge was the thickest wire and then it would be re-drawn a 2nd time to be made thinner, hence 2nd
gauge. So on and so forth. It was a history book of sort and I forget the reference.
?
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values
change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed
to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me.
?
?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
?
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just
screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps <birdc@...> wrote:
Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Definitely don't get into pipe sizing ! Dave Davies
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 5:03 PM Kevin Wells < kjwells54@...> wrote: Thanks Brian and Imran. And let¡¯s not get into pipe sizing¡.maybe the metric system has some advantages (or many advantages). On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:03 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: I think sheetmetal gauge is based on this, the weight per square foot per inch of thickness. This is why different materials can be different gauge for the same thickness:
As the gauge number increases, the material thickness decreases. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers¡¯ Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. For galvanized material, the decimal by gauge and weight per pound is different than steel due to the coating weight. Example 1: A 10 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.1345 inches will weigh 41.82 * 0.1345 = 5.625 pounds per square foot. Example 2: A 10 gauge galvanized sheet which has a thickness of .1382 inches will weigh 41.37 * .1382 = 5.718 pounds per square foot.
I know in shotguns it¡¯s based on the diameter of how many balls you get out of a pound of lead. Wire gauge is a whole different situation entirely. Probably why in manufacturing they have gotten away from most gauge call outs and now specify thickness of the material.
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: .? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Thanks Brian and Imran. And let¡¯s not get into pipe sizing¡.maybe the metric system has some advantages (or many advantages).
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:03 PM Brian Lamb < blamb11@...> wrote: I think sheetmetal gauge is based on this, the weight per square foot per inch of thickness. This is why different materials can be different gauge for the same thickness:
As the gauge number increases, the material thickness decreases. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers¡¯ Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. For galvanized material, the decimal by gauge and weight per pound is different than steel due to the coating weight. Example 1: A 10 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.1345 inches will weigh 41.82 * 0.1345 = 5.625 pounds per square foot. Example 2: A 10 gauge galvanized sheet which has a thickness of .1382 inches will weigh 41.37 * .1382 = 5.718 pounds per square foot.
I know in shotguns it¡¯s based on the diameter of how many balls you get out of a pound of lead. Wire gauge is a whole different situation entirely. Probably why in manufacturing they have gotten away from most gauge call outs and now specify thickness of the material.
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: .? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
I think sheetmetal gauge is based on this, the weight per square foot per inch of thickness. This is why different materials can be different gauge for the same thickness:
As the gauge number increases, the material thickness decreases. Sheet metal thickness gauges for steel are based on a weight of 41.82 pounds per square foot per inch of thickness. This is known as the Manufacturers¡¯ Standard Gauge for Sheet Steel. For galvanized material, the decimal by gauge and weight per pound is different than steel due to the coating weight. Example 1: A 10 gauge steel sheet which has a thickness of 0.1345 inches will weigh 41.82 * 0.1345 = 5.625 pounds per square foot. Example 2: A 10 gauge galvanized sheet which has a thickness of .1382 inches will weigh 41.37 * .1382 = 5.718 pounds per square foot.
I know in shotguns it¡¯s based on the diameter of how many balls you get out of a pound of lead. Wire gauge is a whole different situation entirely. Probably why in manufacturing they have gotten away from most gauge call outs and now specify thickness of the material.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: .? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
that was interesting. Dave Davies
Speaking of metal sheet gauges - I just learned a lot on this webpage:?
Reminds me of my upholstery work where the button sizes are in numbers that seem like inches, but not quite. Turns out upholstery work goes back to Euro hatmakers, textile mfg, and clockmakers who stuck to the "French inch", the "ligne" back in the early days of standardization.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:48 PM Kevin Wells < kjwells54@...> wrote: Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Speaking of metal sheet gauges - I just learned a lot on this webpage:?
Reminds me of my upholstery work where the button sizes are in numbers that seem like inches, but not quite. Turns out upholstery work goes back to Euro hatmakers, textile mfg, and clockmakers who stuck to the "French inch", the "ligne" back in the early days of standardization.
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021 at 12:48 PM Kevin Wells < kjwells54@...> wrote: Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Kevin,
I was always curious about smaller number gauge being bigger wire in diameter until I read sometime ago it was due to drawing attempts. 1 gauge was the thickest wire and then it would be re-drawn a 2nd time to be made thinner, hence 2nd gauge. So on and so forth. It was a history book of sort and I forget the reference.
Imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jul 14, 2021, at 1:48 PM, Kevin Wells <kjwells54@...> wrote: ? Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me. ?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
--
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
Just as a point of clarification, when discussing sheet metal or wire ¡°gauge¡±, the lower the number the larger (thickness, diameter, etc) the dimension. For example, for bare sheet metal 16ga is about .060¡±, 10ga is about .135¡±. The values change for brass, aluminum and other alloys and also for wire but the concept stays the same, lower number = larger dimension. For sheet metal the best I have been able to determine is that for a fixed volume, say 12¡±x12¡±x12¡±, the number of 12¡±x12¡± plies needed to stack up to 12¡± is smaller for thicker material and larger for thinner material. The methodology used to determine the seemingly random gauge thicknesses is still a mystery to me.
?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
|
Re: working with spiral pipe
?Air Handling is a good supplier of spiral goods: Airhand.com.? They have the straight section joint pieces I mentioned.
CarolinaAirSystems.com is my favorite snap lock supplier.??
Marlowe
Marlowe
On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 10:32 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Bird,
¡°Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.¡±
If by that you mean HVAC fitting to connect then yes. If you mean spiral pipe than that is not what I suggested. I like the heavy gauge pipe I got from Rockler. Like others have suggested just screw or rivet. I also used AL tape to seal and yes, it is hard to remove.
Definitely pre drill. I even connected some cast AL blast gates to spiral pipe with screws.
Imran On Jul 14, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Bird Cupps < birdc@...> wrote: Maybe I¡¯ll try something lighter gauge as you suggest, Imran.
|
Re: OT -- Cool Tool: Fractal Vise
here is an antique one being restored
I guess this has been around a long time
On 7/14/21 1:44 AM, mark thomas wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
If you like fine tools, check out more of his stuff.? ?He makes
the finest tools for engravers in the world.??
Another hobby is restoring old machine tools that he uses in his
work and tool manufacture.? Words can't do justice to his machine
tool restorations, from swiss watchmaker's tools to the giant
Cincinnati #3 mill, a glimpse of which he shows here:?
|
Re: Electrical question[FOG] Finally found and purchased my Kundig wide belt sander
3-phase is out of my experience.? ?I should not be advising on this.? ? This thread talks about much of your questions, and more.
Paul
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On the road so can¡¯t send pics.? 25HP 3 phase machine.? Was wired at sellers shop with three 2 AWG copper conductors and a smaller gauge ground wire.? He had it wired
to a knife switch was connected to a VFD.? I kept the wire he had from the sander the knife switch, about 30 ft.? I would like to use that wire but I need 40-45 ft to my breaker panel to go up to the ceiling, across and down.? The wire will run in steel conduit.?
I am assuming I can have a junction box to extend the existing 30 ft of wire to reach my breaker panel.
?
Questions:
-
I think you need a disconnect for the machine.? Does the factory Kundig euro rotary disconnect meet the code requirement or must I add disconnect near the machine?
-
Any issue with a junction box to extend the wire?
?
?
So, your 2 gauge wire is 2/3, meaning three 2 gauge conductors (red,black,white) + 1 ground wire.? ?The circuit breaker would be double-pull 100 amp for up to 240v.
The pull-box sounds like your connection for the machine.? ?Need pictures.
The 2 gauge that came on the machine is three power conductors and lighter gauge ground wire.? Is a pull box as a junction with wire nuts inside to extend the wires that
came on the machine ok per code?
?
?
If your 2 AWG wire that came with the machine is copper, then you can use a 100 amp circuit breaker with it.
If you want to run 6 AWG copper, then the circuit breaker should be 50 amp.? ?Since you already have the 2 AWG wire, I would go that route.
question 4 seems like a NO answer,? ?Just put the 100 amp circuit breaker in the panel and connect the 2 AWG wire to it.? ?Is the 2 AWG wire 2/2?? ?Meaning a white, black and bare wire in the group?
I don't know anything about Euro disconnects.? ?So question 3 is unanswered here.
?
The Kundig is now safely in my shop.? As to wiring and breaker size, I am confused.
?
There are three different current specs in the manual and machine data plate.
-
The machine plate says 86A at 230V
-
The spec sheet says ¡°connected load 130 amps at 230V¡±
-
¡°Required fuse 63 amps at 230V¡±?
The seller had an electrician wire it to his rotary phase converter and they used 2 gauge copper.? I think the manual said to use 6 AWG.
?
Questions:
-
What size breaker should I order??
-
What wire gauge should I run?
-
There is a euro disconnect on the machine, does that meet US code?? The machine is about 30 feet from the breaker panel.
-
There is about a bit more than 30 feet of 2 gauge wire that came connected to the machine.? I assume it¡¯s ok per code to put a pull box and have a junction there so I can use the existing
wire and just add to it to reach the panel?
?
?
?
On dust collection the spec sheet does not make much sense.? The machine has a 7¡± duct.? The spec sheet says 2700 cfm and 4500 fpm.? But when you do the math, with a 7¡±
duct and 4500 fpm you get 1200 cfm.? Or for 2700 cfm you would need over 10,000 fpm.? Clearly wrong.? Prior owner had a 5HP Oneida with about 50 ft of duct and no issues.? My collector will pull 4500 fpm on a 7¡± duct? at the machine.
?
The machine plate says 86A at 230V
?
The spec sheet says ¡°connected load 130 amps at 230V¡±? but it also says ¡°Required fuse 63 amps at 230V¡±?
?
The motor is 25HP.? I do not yet have the machine in the shop so I don¡¯t have the motor electrical data.? There is also a 1HP feed motor and a 1HP table height adjust
motor.
?
Google says a typ current for 25HP motor is 74.8A.?
?
For experts, what size wire for 50 ft and what size breaker?
?
?
?
That is big ¨C what are the amps and the dust collection requirements?? Sorry if I missed this -
?
?
4552 lbs, it¡¯s a beast
?
?
I think the price is about right considering that nothing gets done cheap with people in short supply.? Kundig are sweet so I hope it works well for you.? I'm guessing 2000- 2500 lbs?? Dave
I decided a few years ago that when I got the large shop I would add a wide belt.? I also decided a wanted a constant line pass where the bed stays stationary and the head moves so infeed and outfeed tables can be fixed.? That narrowed the field considerably.?
I ideally wanted a Kundig 37" or 43" single head with platten as a single head is all I can handle without increasing the dust collection beyond the 5HP Smart collector.? I see 2 head machines 43" machines but I've not found a single head in 3 years.? Well
last week I found an add for a single head 43" Kundig Topic and only 32 miles from my house.? Pics to follow once moved and in place.?
The machine is in a workshop with a gravel driveway (rigger needs the right forklift) and at my shop we have 120 feet of pavers.? Estimate to pick up and deliver and place in shop is right at $1000.? Does this seem about right? I pay $185 an hour for the 2
guys and truck and plywood to protect the driveway.
|
PK
Joe Jensen
Kevin Wells
imran