Re: Problem with Rise and Fall motor on Felder Format4 Kappa 550 Sliding Table Saw
#welcome
Thanks for the replies so far.
Imran, we are based in London, UK.
I've been trying to go through the schematics myself but as they are in German it is quite difficult to orientated. If I can narrow it down to the relevant sections I'll try send something over. I've got the covers off so I'm going to see if I can physically work out where things go and identify possible points of failure.
I happened to find the old rise and fall motor the engineer took out of the machine and connected it to a 24v transformer. It works fine from a mechanical point of view. There are 3 other leads that come out of it which I'm trying to work out what they are for - perhaps limit switches and signal cable to the control panel, but I feel that this is a signal issue and not a hardware issue.
Are you speculating that not having a signal prevents a menu from popping up, or do you know that to be true??
I wish the machine had a hand operated way of moving the blade up or down.
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Re: Problem with Rise and Fall motor on Felder Format4 Kappa 550 Sliding Table Saw
#welcome
Eejit,
I feel for you. I find it odd that the fix for a “menu not being available” is a control panel replacement. Unless there is a part of screen that is dead it sounds like a software issue. It could also be a signal issue, as in not having a signal (that is a required condition) for a specific menu to pop up.
The other possibility is that something that is broke has been upintegrated into the control panel and cannot be replaced independently. Just spitballing.
It is not likely that someone can diagnose this without having access to the info which is only available to the OEM. I am willing to take a look at the electrical schematic of your machine if you share it. But not very hopeful.
Imran PS: where are you located?
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On Mar 1, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Eejit <aaron@...> wrote: ?Hi All,?
I'm joined this forum as I'm looking for some advice on how to go about getting repair work done on our Felder equipment.
We have a Format 4 Kappa 550 sliding table saw. The rise and fall motor would not operate and so we couldn't adjust the blade height up or down. On the display appeared "Enco" which stood for encoder error.
We paid to have Felder come out and they replaced the rise and fall motor with a brand new one. It worked fine except for some calibration - the height had to be set manually, it would never go to the correct height when you typed in the height you wanted. The engineer hung about in his van for a few hours whilst waiting for a colleague to call him back. Eventually he came back and said that a menu was missing from our control panel which prevented him from doing the calibration. He claimed a replacement control panel would have to be fitted.
We just wanted the thing up and running again and were losing patience and since we could manually set the height we were happy.
However, after about a month, the same error came back. Felder just continue to say that the control panel needs replaced but I just do not feel they have adequately diagnosed the problem. The engineer didn't seem to have diagnosed this, just taken this advice from someone on the phone back at hq. This has also led me to believe that there was nothing wrong with the original rise and fall motor, and that may have been misdiagnosed.
So I have a few questions.?
Is there any independent machine engineers that could be engaged to solve this sort of problem?
Would anyone have any suggestions as to how to go about troubleshooting this ourselves first before we commit to paying for another repair that doesn't actually fix the problem?
Is there a way the rise and fall motor can be adjusted manually (not via the up and down arrows on the control but actually manually doing it from underneath the machine)?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Re: Problem with Rise and Fall motor on Felder Format4 Kappa 550 Sliding Table Saw
#welcome
Sounds like typical troubleshooting with limited diagnosis.? It may not be possible to diagnose the way the board is designed but I would think they could have got some info on the error codes to figure out its the board.? Kind of like when a car is overheating, tech often just start replacing things related to cooling.
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Problem with Rise and Fall motor on Felder Format4 Kappa 550 Sliding Table Saw
#welcome
Hi All,?
I'm joined this forum as I'm looking for some advice on how to go about getting repair work done on our Felder equipment.
We have a Format 4 Kappa 550 sliding table saw. The rise and fall motor would not operate and so we couldn't adjust the blade height up or down. On the display appeared "Enco" which stood for encoder error.
We paid to have Felder come out and they replaced the rise and fall motor with a brand new one. It worked fine except for some calibration - the height had to be set manually, it would never go to the correct height when you typed in the height you wanted. The engineer hung about in his van for a few hours whilst waiting for a colleague to call him back. Eventually he came back and said that a menu was missing from our control panel which prevented him from doing the calibration. He claimed a replacement control panel would have to be fitted.
We just wanted the thing up and running again and were losing patience and since we could manually set the height we were happy.
However, after about a month, the same error came back. Felder just continue to say that the control panel needs replaced but I just do not feel they have adequately diagnosed the problem. The engineer didn't seem to have diagnosed this, just taken this advice from someone on the phone back at hq. This has also led me to believe that there was nothing wrong with the original rise and fall motor, and that may have been misdiagnosed.
So I have a few questions.?
Is there any independent machine engineers that could be engaged to solve this sort of problem?
Would anyone have any suggestions as to how to go about troubleshooting this ourselves first before we commit to paying for another repair that doesn't actually fix the problem?
Is there a way the rise and fall motor can be adjusted manually (not via the up and down arrows on the control but actually manually doing it from underneath the machine)?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
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Re: Northfield 32" Bandsaw
Joe, I'm thinking 3000-4500.? I don't follow NF much so I could be off.? their jointer commands a premium but I don't know if the 32" saw does.? Dave
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What is a 32" Northfield bandsaw be worth?? I will call Northfield monday with the serial number to check the age. Looks relatively new.? 5HP direct drive motor.
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Hi Jonathan,
I meant that your comparison is between carts of different features/specifications. You bring up a good point about where they are manufactured, which I was not thinking of.
Anyhow?FAT300 is a hydraulic lift with a pedal lift and manual release capable of 660#
I see FAT300 sells for �1000 (US$1200) in Austria. A proper price comparison should be with?Vestil Cart-600 or Cart-1000 which in USA are between $600-$700.
Imran?
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On Mar 1, 2021, at 8:48 AM, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote:?On 01/03/2021 13:09, imranindiana via groups.io wrote:Jonathan,
That is an unfair comparison. In USA a FAT300 without any top is nearly twice as expensive as a Vestil cart with a top and more lifting capacity. I would assume they would be closer in price in your area.
How is that not a fair comparison? Here it is the other way around. :-)From this thread Vestil seems to originate from US mainland, Felder from EU. I am in the EU, (most of) you are in the US.Jonathan
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On 01/03/2021 13:09, imranindiana via groups.io wrote: Jonathan,
That is an unfair comparison. In USA a FAT300 without any top is nearly twice as expensive as a Vestil cart with a top and more lifting capacity. I would assume they would be closer in price in your area. How is that not a fair comparison? Here it is the other way around. :-) From this thread Vestil seems to originate from US mainland, Felder from EU. I am in the EU, (most of) you are in the US. Jonathan
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Jonathan,
That is an unfair comparison. In USA a FAT300 without any top is nearly twice as expensive as a Vestil cart with a top and more lifting capacity. I would assume they would be closer in price in your area.
Even though, Vestil may be sturdier, if the price was similar I would go for Felder because it is more suitable for my use.
Imran
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On Mar 1, 2021, at 6:42 AM, Jonathan Martens <jonathan@...> wrote: ?On 22/02/2021 05:34, Glen Christensen wrote: " Vestil is far superior for the money. And if you get the air over hydraulic it is night and day"
Crap did not know they had air powered. Not sure on the US prize for a FAT300 but here in The Netherlands, even with VAT included with most expansive top and list price, a FAT 300 with the is still cheaper than the Vestil AIR-2000 w/o VAT. Although I like the idea of the air connection of Vestil it might be more fuss to connect/disconnect the airline when moving the cart. Regards, Jonathan
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
Progress! ?Have to confess I’m always dubious about statements such as Apparently plus or minus 5% voltage or anything less than a 2.5mm extension cable and your capacitors are at risk of blowing. ?Almost the status of urban myth IMO. ?Also, companies have a?‘cheap’ habit of using he lowest voltage capacitor that they can get away with whereas installing one with a higher voltage rating would eliminate such vagaries as ‘plus or minus 5% !
Fingers crossed.?
ATB
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Thanks Roger,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Sorry, I was referring to the mains fuse board re. trip switches. Machine dead. Electrician has confirmed power is going to machine.
Irish Felder agent diagnosed blown capacitor and brake board, parts being couriered today. Apparently plus or minus 5% voltage or anything less than a 2.5mm extension cable and your capacitors are at risk of blowing.
I know how to remove the control box.
Will update you once I have fitted new parts.
Regards,
Trevor
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
Thanks Roger,
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Sorry, I was referring to the mains fuse board re. trip switches. Machine dead. Electrician has confirmed power is going to machine.
Irish Felder agent diagnosed blown capacitor and brake board, parts being couriered today. Apparently plus or minus 5% voltage or anything less than a 2.5mm extension cable and your capacitors are at risk of blowing.
I know how to remove the control box.
Will update you once I have fitted new parts.
Regards,
Trevor
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On 22/02/2021 05:34, Glen Christensen wrote: " Vestil is far superior for the money. And if you get the air over hydraulic it is night and day"
Crap did not know they had air powered. Not sure on the US prize for a FAT300 but here in The Netherlands, even with VAT included with most expansive top and list price, a FAT 300 with the is still cheaper than the Vestil AIR-2000 w/o VAT. Although I like the idea of the air connection of Vestil it might be more fuss to connect/disconnect the airline when moving the cart. Regards, Jonathan
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
When you say ’No power going to the machine’. …that doesn’t fit with “all the trip switches were in the correct position”.?
There is just one pair of start/run capacitors (one of each) and they are connected to whichever motor has been selected via the function switch.?
Is your machine totally dead ? ? Do you know how to remove the control box ? ?
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The crack came from the C3 31. At first I thought it was the mains fuse board ( as previously the board had been tripping a lot)
but when I checked all the trip switches were in the correct position.
There was no power going to the machine.
Single phase.
Based in West Cork Ireland.
Thank you for your help.
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
The crack came from the C3 31. At first I thought it was the mains fuse board ( as previously the board had been tripping a lot)
but when I checked all the trip switches were in the correct position.
There was no power going to the machine.
Single phase.
Based in West Cork Ireland.
Thank you for your help.
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
Trevor
When you say I heard a sharp crack and that was the power gone. ? The sharp crack came from the C3 31 ? ? ??“Power gone”…do you mean that your circuit breaker tripped ? ?Or that the machine has power but won’t run.
Are you single-phase or three-phase ?
Lastly, are you US or UK based …just that I can use the right terminology !
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We moved home last September. My machine went into storage and the store got very damp over the winter. Enough to cover the tables with a light coating of red rust.
I cleaned the tables and planned some timber this week. I noticed that I didn't hear the buzzing sound that occurs ?when you stop the machine or switch between functions.
After running the planner for a couple of hours, I was clearing up the mess and cross cutting some really light kindling when I heard a sharp crack and that was the power gone.
Any ideas or help as to what to do next to trace the problem would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Trevor Lusty
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What is a 32" Northfield bandsaw be worth?? I will call Northfield monday with the serial number to check the age. Looks relatively new.? 5HP direct drive motor.
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The saw DE is sorted, the A3 I want to put against a wall and pull out as needed and use an overhead boom to connect the DE to it. The Timken Taper bearings are a way better way to articulate it and are adjustable which is a plus and the ones used in the front hubs of cars are as cheap as dirt which is another plus. The same connection could be used on the router table I started to build about 3 years ago which will be on wheels as well. Front wheel drive cars don't use them at all.?
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
Thanks Steve.
Imran, I think that you are right on the money, as I was fairly sure that that blade wasn't stopping under breaking as before, but as it had been several month's since I last used the machine I wasn't absolutely sure.
Thank you.
Trevor
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
If it is a single phase machine you could have popped the start/run capacitor. I recently experienced it on my band saw and it made smoke instead of sound. Are you getting breaking function? Usually the buzzing is associated with breaking. Every machine is different but Felder recently advised (when I replaced only a 16 month old break board) to never restart the machine until the saw of cutterhead has completely stopped. I would imagine it would also be good to not switch functions until the motor has come to a complete stopped. ? I am not familiar with your machine but the caps may be shared and if so they are in the electrical section of the machine. As is often stated here, call Felder before accessing the electrical area, if your machine is under warranty. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Trevor Lusty Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2021 4:59 PM To: [email protected]Subject: [FOG] C3 31 Electrical problem ? We moved home last September. My machine went into storage and the store got very damp over the winter. Enough to cover the tables with a light coating of red rust.
I cleaned the tables and planned some timber this week. I noticed that I didn't hear the buzzing sound that occurs ?when you stop the machine or switch between functions.
After running the planner for a couple of hours, I was clearing up the mess and cross cutting some really light kindling when I heard a sharp crack and that was the power gone.
Any ideas or help as to what to do next to trace the problem would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Trevor Lusty
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Re: C3 31 Electrical problem
Most likely a capacitor blew up.
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On Feb 28, 2021, at 4:59 PM, Trevor Lusty <trevlusty@...> wrote:
?We moved home last September. My machine went into storage and the store got very damp over the winter. Enough to cover the tables with a light coating of red rust.
I cleaned the tables and planned some timber this week. I noticed that I didn't hear the buzzing sound that occurs ?when you stop the machine or switch between functions.
After running the planner for a couple of hours, I was clearing up the mess and cross cutting some really light kindling when I heard a sharp crack and that was the power gone.
Any ideas or help as to what to do next to trace the problem would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Trevor Lusty
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We moved home last September. My machine went into storage and the store got very damp over the winter. Enough to cover the tables with a light coating of red rust.
I cleaned the tables and planned some timber this week. I noticed that I didn't hear the buzzing sound that occurs ?when you stop the machine or switch between functions.
After running the planner for a couple of hours, I was clearing up the mess and cross cutting some really light kindling when I heard a sharp crack and that was the power gone.
Any ideas or help as to what to do next to trace the problem would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
Trevor Lusty
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imran
Joe Jensen
Jonathan Martens