Mark,
That looks great. BTW, plastic is safer than metal to have around the blade. Are you having the parts milled (i think you mentioned AL) because some portions of the design are too thin to be robust in plastic?
Imran?
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:00 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Welp looks like I am ready to have metal cut.?
- The scoring section was to long to fit on the 3d print bed so I made it in 2 pieces and connected it with a half lap dovetail. - I modified the pockets for the dust shield to allow a little more adjustment, could have just made them go through the top except it would have left a corner that houses the LED unsupported and somewhat floating in space, probably ok but not as clean (of course would be hidden by the wood insert but...) - I tapped the holes for the insert, I don’t like the m8 flat heads so close to the blade, probably ok but may just use some low head cap screws which are narrower and low because the insert is only 8mm thick but they are expensive and I can be cheap - out of the bazillion bolts we have at work in the assembly areas and the tool crib I can’t find any... could bling it up and use brass but then I would just be show boating ? - The wood insert shown I just banged out tonight so not so refined, still need to cut the slot for the riving knife and will probably use it as is until the completed parts arrive - ?I also 3d printed a fixture to do the cutout with a 3/8” flush trim bit which should be done tomorrow?
<image0.jpeg> <image1.jpeg> <image2.jpeg> <image3.jpeg>
On Jan 20, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote:
?Mark,?
Sorry that you weren't able to purchase a ZCI, but selfishly I'm very much enjoying watching you work though this design. ?Very impressive! ?
|
Mark,
Unfortunately it is true that the blade tilt axis is not fixed, you use the term zero tilt. The saw unit is hung at the edge of the cast iron from 2 pins (one in front and the other in rear). Not sure if this arrangement is incompatible with zero tilt or not. Sometime ago it occurred to me that I should check with blade fully elevated, may be in that position it is zero tilt but I have not checked.
Imran
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 9:37 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote: ? Imran, missed your question below about measurement when blade tilted. Haven't checked but it should as it is zero tilt, you sure the k975 isn’t a zero tilt? On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:47 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Mark,
That is so cool, thanks for sharing. BTW, does your K940 maintain rip fence measurement when blade is tilted? My KF does but it was a surprised to learn that it did not on K975 - only found out after purchase.
I plan to get into modeling once this pandemic is over. Last summer I tumbled onto a little known detail that, in Ohio, residents over 60 (IIRC the exact age) can attend/audit classes in state institutions for free. I checked and Indiana has the same policy. So i called our vocational school, Ivy Tech, and they confirmed. Tuition is waved but there could still be other costs like computer/lab use. I plan to take 3D modeling and welding.
Imran
On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:19 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Hey Imran, looks like I left out some key details, there are so many for such a simple thing really.?
The white blob is silicone, looks like they filled most of the internal pockets of the factory section with silicone, to hold it in place and to diffuse the light. The LED’s don’t even line up with the holes. The gray parts are the factory supplied parts.
Yes the first step was to redraw/ model the exact parts that felder supplied to their dimensions, i then extruded down about 8mm for the wood insert and add the tap locations for the bolts to hole the wood insert. At that point i had to extrude pockets on the backside for the LED wiring and there is a little metal dust shield that required space relived, there are some other minor tweaks that were required to make it work.?
When I bolted on the 3d printed part it actually lined up dead flush with the cast, I would prefer a little adjustment so I had to drill out the washer of the bolt that holds the part onto the cast by .5 mm and that dust shield, had to file a flat on the washer so the part could have a little room to drop below the table if needed.?
I was resisting and really wanted to just buy it so I could get back to building furniture but couldn’t take the random flying pieces of wood anymore, One of the big drawbacks of a zci for me is that you have to remove it for angle cuts but yet in another plus of moving up to the k940 over the k700 is that you don’t have to remove it to change the angle, at least with a 300mm blade which is what I use.?
Felder should offer it but I think it would be pretty costly, they could recut the mold for the Injection molded parts but the parts they are getting out now (at least the ones on my machine) are pretty low quality, lots of shrinkage probably due to injecting too fast, cooling to fast I doubt they did a a flow analysis- could probably improve the part with scientific molding but even then plastic isn’t really the right material to base a ZCI off of for this machine config, could be done but metal as the base would be better.?
Here are some additional screen shots for clarification.
Here is the dust shield with the clipped washers? <image6.jpeg> <image7.jpeg> <image8.jpeg>
On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:29 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Looks Awesome. What is the white blob looking thing at the end of LED strip?
So looks like you are recreating what felder supplies. Is this 1st step to make ZCI?
I need one terribly for K975. I bought 2 for KF700 and never installed them. It was not bad because I do not have scoring. I think scoring just exacerbates the situation and cutoffs are violent. IMHO, OEM should consider ZCI implementation when designing the saw.
Imran
On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:27 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? So I decided I needed a zci for the new k940, thought I would get away without one but here I am... I reached out to David Best as I knew he had made one for the kappa. The k940 saw unit, top casting and 3 plastic segments appear to be the same however I have the LED lights so wasn’t sure if David would be willing to modify his design and if it would be worth the time/cost to do so. After a few back and forth emails David decided to not take it on, a few key dimensions were slightly different and could require a few iterations to get it right which I agreed.?
David was so kind in allowing me to use his drawings, however after I started to model it and compared it to my parts in hand it wasn’t adding up so I had to abandon the drawings given and just start from scratch from my actual parts.
So the first task was to model the LED section first as it is the most difficult to work out, then 3d print, check fit and make adjustments (done) After that 3d print all the parts to confirm (tomorrow) and finally have machined in aluminum (tbd)
The other unknown was how was the LED installed, the only way to find out was to remove it which would obviously void the warranty but after studying the elect schematic and looking at the parts drawings I convinced myself that it was no big deal and easy to fix if I screwed up the LED strip.?
So here are some progress pics... note, the 3d printed LED section is short due the the 3D printer bed not being long enough, a bolt hole is missing so it is not tight against the cast...
??
Below is the auto score feature in action with the as delivered LED section? <image0.png> <image1.png> <image2.png> <image3.jpeg> <image4.jpeg> <image5.jpeg> <image6.jpeg> <Video.MOV>
|
Welp looks like I am ready to have metal cut.?
- The scoring section was to long to fit on the 3d print bed so I made it in 2 pieces and connected it with a half lap dovetail. - I modified the pockets for the dust shield to allow a little more adjustment, could have just made them go through the top except it would have left a corner that houses the LED unsupported and somewhat floating in space, probably ok but not as clean (of course would be hidden by the wood insert but...) - I tapped the holes for the insert, I don’t like the m8 flat heads so close to the blade, probably ok but may just use some low head cap screws which are narrower and low because the insert is only 8mm thick but they are expensive and I can be cheap - out of the bazillion bolts we have at work in the assembly areas and the tool crib I can’t find any... could bling it up and use brass but then I would just be show boating ? - The wood insert shown I just banged out tonight so not so refined, still need to cut the slot for the riving knife and will probably use it as is until the completed parts arrive - ?I also 3d printed a fixture to do the cutout with a 3/8” flush trim bit which should be done tomorrow?
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote:
?Mark,?
Sorry that you weren't able to purchase a ZCI, but selfishly I'm very much enjoying watching you work though this design. ?Very impressive! ?
|
Imran, missed your question below about measurement when blade tilted. Haven't checked but it should as it is zero tilt, you sure the k975 isn’t a zero tilt?
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Show quoted text
On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:47 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Mark,
That is so cool, thanks for sharing. BTW, does your K940 maintain rip fence measurement when blade is tilted? My KF does but it was a surprised to learn that it did not on K975 - only found out after purchase.
I plan to get into modeling once this pandemic is over. Last summer I tumbled onto a little known detail that, in Ohio, residents over 60 (IIRC the exact age) can attend/audit classes in state institutions for free. I checked and Indiana has the same policy. So i called our vocational school, Ivy Tech, and they confirmed. Tuition is waved but there could still be other costs like computer/lab use. I plan to take 3D modeling and welding.
Imran
On Jan 20, 2021, at 10:19 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Hey Imran, looks like I left out some key details, there are so many for such a simple thing really.?
The white blob is silicone, looks like they filled most of the internal pockets of the factory section with silicone, to hold it in place and to diffuse the light. The LED’s don’t even line up with the holes. The gray parts are the factory supplied parts.
Yes the first step was to redraw/ model the exact parts that felder supplied to their dimensions, i then extruded down about 8mm for the wood insert and add the tap locations for the bolts to hole the wood insert. At that point i had to extrude pockets on the backside for the LED wiring and there is a little metal dust shield that required space relived, there are some other minor tweaks that were required to make it work.?
When I bolted on the 3d printed part it actually lined up dead flush with the cast, I would prefer a little adjustment so I had to drill out the washer of the bolt that holds the part onto the cast by .5 mm and that dust shield, had to file a flat on the washer so the part could have a little room to drop below the table if needed.?
I was resisting and really wanted to just buy it so I could get back to building furniture but couldn’t take the random flying pieces of wood anymore, One of the big drawbacks of a zci for me is that you have to remove it for angle cuts but yet in another plus of moving up to the k940 over the k700 is that you don’t have to remove it to change the angle, at least with a 300mm blade which is what I use.?
Felder should offer it but I think it would be pretty costly, they could recut the mold for the Injection molded parts but the parts they are getting out now (at least the ones on my machine) are pretty low quality, lots of shrinkage probably due to injecting too fast, cooling to fast I doubt they did a a flow analysis- could probably improve the part with scientific molding but even then plastic isn’t really the right material to base a ZCI off of for this machine config, could be done but metal as the base would be better.?
Here are some additional screen shots for clarification.
Here is the dust shield with the clipped washers? <image6.jpeg> <image7.jpeg> <image8.jpeg>
On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:29 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Looks Awesome. What is the white blob looking thing at the end of LED strip?
So looks like you are recreating what felder supplies. Is this 1st step to make ZCI?
I need one terribly for K975. I bought 2 for KF700 and never installed them. It was not bad because I do not have scoring. I think scoring just exacerbates the situation and cutoffs are violent. IMHO, OEM should consider ZCI implementation when designing the saw.
Imran
On Jan 19, 2021, at 11:27 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? So I decided I needed a zci for the new k940, thought I would get away without one but here I am... I reached out to David Best as I knew he had made one for the kappa. The k940 saw unit, top casting and 3 plastic segments appear to be the same however I have the LED lights so wasn’t sure if David would be willing to modify his design and if it would be worth the time/cost to do so. After a few back and forth emails David decided to not take it on, a few key dimensions were slightly different and could require a few iterations to get it right which I agreed.?
David was so kind in allowing me to use his drawings, however after I started to model it and compared it to my parts in hand it wasn’t adding up so I had to abandon the drawings given and just start from scratch from my actual parts.
So the first task was to model the LED section first as it is the most difficult to work out, then 3d print, check fit and make adjustments (done) After that 3d print all the parts to confirm (tomorrow) and finally have machined in aluminum (tbd)
The other unknown was how was the LED installed, the only way to find out was to remove it which would obviously void the warranty but after studying the elect schematic and looking at the parts drawings I convinced myself that it was no big deal and easy to fix if I screwed up the LED strip.?
So here are some progress pics... note, the 3d printed LED section is short due the the 3D printer bed not being long enough, a bolt hole is missing so it is not tight against the cast...
??
Below is the auto score feature in action with the as delivered LED section? <image0.png> <image1.png> <image2.png> <image3.jpeg> <image4.jpeg> <image5.jpeg> <image6.jpeg> <Video.MOV>
|
Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Anthony ,,,,Erica takes 30 mm bore as does Elu flip saw! Designing and building for 50 years
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 6:15 PM, Michael Marsico <michael.marsico1@...> wrote:
? I had a Bosch for a number of years and used it for everything until i bought my first felder in 2018. ? I liked it and it worked well -
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 7:13 PM Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote: Jim,?
thanks for the recommendation!? I will certainly add the Bosch to the list.? I have had been pleased with the Bosch tools in my shop and it is great to hear about your experience as an everyday saw in the field.? Thanks again for taking the time to share! Best,? Anthony? On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Jim Gaynor via < jgaynor57@...> wrote:
Anthony
I would check out Bosch's latest offering. I have used two different generations of their jobsite saws, and it exceeded expectations as we do house trim and kitchen installation for Habitat. The fence, riving knife, and extension table just seem to reflect a quality that we come to expect on a cabinet saw. I assume several brands are made at the same factory these days, but I have found myself throwing yellow power tools away in the last five years. The reliability has been disappointing, but they have been primarily battery tools so it may not be relevant to your search for a jobsite saw.
Jim On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 12:17:01 PM EST, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote:
As mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.? Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and until I move into the bigger space where I will get another slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own tools, but I will be helping out and will want to be making things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ? ?
Any recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive rips and cross cuts (with sled). ? ?
I believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the Erika be at the top of the list? ? ?
I also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an addition I want to give him a little thank you and upgrade his 40 year old “job site saw.” ?
thanks so much,? Anthony?
--
|
Re: Calibration of power drive angle
My understanding is the hard stops are set within a certain distance from/near the limit switches if the hard stops are set to far the motor actually has enough power to pull the brackets off at the welds - or...something like this.? Thanks for the info on that Dave.?
Lucky, maybe I should have included the procedure, I am only familiar with this a little as I run a software validation team for control software which includes encoder motors, basically you show the software different points (sometimes specific points) on the encoder typically the more the better so it can resolve itself. The display is totally passive and is just showing what the motor sees
Attached is the procedure?
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:16 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Mark, if you use the hard stops, then force the trunion to go beyond the limits, the system will disable. ?I did this a few months ago, forcing the trunion to minus 1 degree, and it hit the stop and refused to tilt in any direction from there. ? Once the system faults like that, you have to manually apply 24V power to the positioning motor to drive it off the hard stop. ?Once that’s done and the machine power cycled, ?it’s fine again. ?I was able to do this using a 18V battery from one of my cordless drills, but it was certainly a PITA. ?You might ask why I got in this situation to begin with, and it was a simple keying error when I was calibrating the 0° stop. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
Thanks guys, what about the other angles 11,2°; 22,5°; 33,7°? I know about checking the 0 and 90. They Also told me not to adjust the hard stops which makes no sense to me, the encoder motors we use at work utilize hard stops, we don’t like to rely on the software for that ? Thanks David,
Like you and Lucky described, I do the cut test to confirm calibration. I calibrate with precision 90 & 45 squares.
I am just curious what my wixey angle gauge does. If memory serves me right if I zero it on the table it shows 0 or 90 depending upon which side I use on the blade.
I do not like using digital angle gauge for calibration because, well it is digital; you do not know when it is going to flip plus it does have repeatability error.
Imran ? Imran,?
For the 90° stop, I cross cut a 1x3 on edge with the blade fully up, flip the off-cut over, put the two pieces back together on the bench and check with a straight edge. ?Same method with a 1 x 3 at 45 and check for square.
David
I guess i will need to check my angle gauge now. I did not use it to calibrate 90 & 45 stops on the saw though.
Imran ? I’m with Lucky on this one. ?I have not found that the digital angle indicators produce very accurate results when used the set the angle stops on the saw trunion.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Mark:
When calibrating my Kappa, I tried the tilt box method and was surprised how inaccurate it was for me. Maybe the fact that the tilt box is not accurate enough, or maybe the fact that a saw blade body is not necessary ground flat, or a combo?
For me, making test cuts in timber and measuring the results yielded the best calibration. 90 degree cuts in two thickish pieces, butt together and check with a straight edge. 45 degree cuts and then check for square.?
I’d be interested in whether the tilt box works for you. Cheers.? ? I have the procedure, is a digital tilt box accurate enough or am I better of using a vernier scale protractor like the Mitutoyo 187-201. Looks like the tilt boxes are accurate within .2deg.
|
Re: Calibration of power drive angle
Mark, if you use the hard stops, then force the trunion to go beyond the limits, the system will disable. ?I did this a few months ago, forcing the trunion to minus 1 degree, and it hit the stop and refused to tilt in any direction from there. ? Once the system faults like that, you have to manually apply 24V power to the positioning motor to drive it off the hard stop. ?Once that’s done and the machine power cycled, ?it’s fine again. ?I was able to do this using a 18V battery from one of my cordless drills, but it was certainly a PITA. ?You might ask why I got in this situation to begin with, and it was a simple keying error when I was calibrating the 0° stop. ?
David Best
https://www.instagram.com/davidpbest/
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Show quoted text
Thanks guys, what about the other angles 11,2°; 22,5°; 33,7°? I know about checking the 0 and 90. They Also told me not to adjust the hard stops which makes no sense to me, the encoder motors we use at work utilize hard stops, we don’t like to rely on the software for that ? Thanks David,
Like you and Lucky described, I do the cut test to confirm calibration. I calibrate with precision 90 & 45 squares.
I am just curious what my wixey angle gauge does. If memory serves me right if I zero it on the table it shows 0 or 90 depending upon which side I use on the blade.
I do not like using digital angle gauge for calibration because, well it is digital; you do not know when it is going to flip plus it does have repeatability error.
Imran ? Imran,?
For the 90° stop, I cross cut a 1x3 on edge with the blade fully up, flip the off-cut over, put the two pieces back together on the bench and check with a straight edge. ?Same method with a 1 x 3 at 45 and check for square.
David
I guess i will need to check my angle gauge now. I did not use it to calibrate 90 & 45 stops on the saw though.
Imran ? I’m with Lucky on this one. ?I have not found that the digital angle indicators produce very accurate results when used the set the angle stops on the saw trunion.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Mark:
When calibrating my Kappa, I tried the tilt box method and was surprised how inaccurate it was for me. Maybe the fact that the tilt box is not accurate enough, or maybe the fact that a saw blade body is not necessary ground flat, or a combo?
For me, making test cuts in timber and measuring the results yielded the best calibration. 90 degree cuts in two thickish pieces, butt together and check with a straight edge. 45 degree cuts and then check for square.?
I’d be interested in whether the tilt box works for you. Cheers.? ? I have the procedure, is a digital tilt box accurate enough or am I better of using a vernier scale protractor like the Mitutoyo 187-201. Looks like the tilt boxes are accurate within .2deg.
|
Re: Job site saw recommendation?
I had a Bosch for a number of years and used it for everything until i bought my first felder in 2018. ? I liked it and it worked well -
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 7:13 PM Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote: Jim,?
thanks for the recommendation!? I will certainly add the Bosch to the list.? I have had been pleased with the Bosch tools in my shop and it is great to hear about your experience as an everyday saw in the field.? Thanks again for taking the time to share! Best,? Anthony? On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Jim Gaynor via < jgaynor57@...> wrote:
Anthony
I would check out Bosch's latest offering. I have used two different generations of their jobsite saws, and it exceeded expectations as we do house trim and kitchen installation for Habitat. The fence, riving knife, and extension table just seem to reflect a quality that we come to expect on a cabinet saw. I assume several brands are made at the same factory these days, but I have found myself throwing yellow power tools away in the last five years. The reliability has been disappointing, but they have been primarily battery tools so it may not be relevant to your search for a jobsite saw.
Jim On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 12:17:01 PM EST, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote:
As mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.? Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and until I move into the bigger space where I will get another slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own tools, but I will be helping out and will want to be making things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ? ?
Any recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive rips and cross cuts (with sled). ? ?
I believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the Erika be at the top of the list? ? ?
I also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an addition I want to give him a little thank you and upgrade his 40 year old “job site saw.” ?
thanks so much,? Anthony?
|
Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Jim,?
thanks for the recommendation! ?I will certainly add the Bosch to the list. ?I have had been pleased with the Bosch tools in my shop and it is great to hear about your experience as an everyday saw in the field. ?Thanks again for taking the time to share! Best,?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 20, 2021, at 7:02 PM, Jim Gaynor via < jgaynor57@...> wrote:
Anthony
I would check out Bosch's latest offering. I have used two different generations of their jobsite saws, and it exceeded expectations as we do house trim and kitchen installation for Habitat. The fence, riving knife, and extension table just seem to reflect a quality that we come to expect on a cabinet saw. I assume several brands are made at the same factory these days, but I have found myself throwing yellow power tools away in the last five years. The reliability has been disappointing, but they have been primarily battery tools so it may not be relevant to your search for a jobsite saw.
Jim On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 12:17:01 PM EST, Anthony Quesada < tonymiga2@...> wrote:
As mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.? Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and until I move into the bigger space where I will get another slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own tools, but I will be helping out and will want to be making things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ? ?
Any recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive rips and cross cuts (with sled). ? ?
I believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the Erika be at the top of the list? ? ?
I also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an addition I want to give him a little thank you and upgrade his 40 year old “job site saw.” ?
thanks so much,? Anthony?
|
Re: Calibration of power drive angle
Hi Mark:
My assumption is that if 90 and 45 degrees are good, the software ought to be accurate enough to get all the angles in between. Maybe I’m being naive?
Your hard stop question is beyond me.
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On 21 Jan 2021, at 9:55 am, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Thanks guys, what about the other angles 11,2°; 22,5°; 33,7°? I know about checking the 0 and 90. They Also told me not to adjust the hard stops which makes no sense to me, the encoder motors we use at work utilize hard stops, we don’t like to rely on the software for that On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:30 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thanks David,
Like you and Lucky described, I do the cut test to confirm calibration. I calibrate with precision 90 & 45 squares.
I am just curious what my wixey angle gauge does. If memory serves me right if I zero it on the table it shows 0 or 90 depending upon which side I use on the blade.
I do not like using digital angle gauge for calibration because, well it is digital; you do not know when it is going to flip plus it does have repeatability error.
Imran
On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:19 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran,?
For the 90° stop, I cross cut a 1x3 on edge with the blade fully up, flip the off-cut over, put the two pieces back together on the bench and check with a straight edge. ?Same method with a 1 x 3 at 45 and check for square.
David
I guess i will need to check my angle gauge now. I did not use it to calibrate 90 & 45 stops on the saw though.
Imran ? I’m with Lucky on this one. ?I have not found that the digital angle indicators produce very accurate results when used the set the angle stops on the saw trunion.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Mark:
When calibrating my Kappa, I tried the tilt box method and was surprised how inaccurate it was for me. Maybe the fact that the tilt box is not accurate enough, or maybe the fact that a saw blade body is not necessary ground flat, or a combo?
For me, making test cuts in timber and measuring the results yielded the best calibration. 90 degree cuts in two thickish pieces, butt together and check with a straight edge. 45 degree cuts and then check for square.?
I’d be interested in whether the tilt box works for you. Cheers.? ? I have the procedure, is a digital tilt box accurate enough or am I better of using a vernier scale protractor like the Mitutoyo 187-201. Looks like the tilt boxes are accurate within .2deg.
|
Re: Job site saw recommendation?
Anthony
I would check out Bosch's latest offering. I have used two different generations of their jobsite saws, and it exceeded expectations as we do house trim and kitchen installation for Habitat. The fence, riving knife, and extension table just seem to reflect a quality that we come to expect on a cabinet saw. I assume several brands are made at the same factory these days, but I have found myself throwing yellow power tools away in the last five years. The reliability has been disappointing, but they have been primarily battery tools so it may not be relevant to your search for a jobsite saw.
Jim On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 12:17:01 PM EST, Anthony Quesada <tonymiga2@...> wrote:
As mentioned previously, we are about to start the new workshop.? Looking for a stop-gap saw to help with the construction and until I move into the bigger space where I will get another slider.? There will be a full time contractor with his own tools, but I will be helping out and will want to be making things on nights and weekends too over the next year +. ? ? Any recommendations for "job site" saw I’ll be able to use for the barn construction and for occasional site work down the road?? I have a track saw so I will be using this TS more for repetitive rips and cross cuts (with sled). ? ? I believe that Mac has an Erika and seems to like it?? From what I have seen and heard at the mafell forums, it looks like a fantastic saw.? Any other brand or model recommendations from those that may have a smaller saw in their arsenal or should the Erika be at the top of the list? ? ? I also plan on gifting this saw to my dad (we share the shop space) once I get a slider.? He doesn’t have any interest in learning how to use the sliding saw, but since he has so graciously allowed me to move into his shop and now add an addition I want to give him a little thank you and upgrade his 40 year old “job site saw.” ? thanks so much,? Anthony?
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Re: Calibration of power drive angle
Thanks guys, what about the other angles 11,2°; 22,5°; 33,7°? I know about checking the 0 and 90. They Also told me not to adjust the hard stops which makes no sense to me, the encoder motors we use at work utilize hard stops, we don’t like to rely on the software for that
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:30 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Thanks David,
Like you and Lucky described, I do the cut test to confirm calibration. I calibrate with precision 90 & 45 squares.
I am just curious what my wixey angle gauge does. If memory serves me right if I zero it on the table it shows 0 or 90 depending upon which side I use on the blade.
I do not like using digital angle gauge for calibration because, well it is digital; you do not know when it is going to flip plus it does have repeatability error.
Imran
On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:19 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote:
? Imran,?
For the 90° stop, I cross cut a 1x3 on edge with the blade fully up, flip the off-cut over, put the two pieces back together on the bench and check with a straight edge. ?Same method with a 1 x 3 at 45 and check for square.
David
I guess i will need to check my angle gauge now. I did not use it to calibrate 90 & 45 stops on the saw though.
Imran ? I’m with Lucky on this one. ?I have not found that the digital angle indicators produce very accurate results when used the set the angle stops on the saw trunion.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Mark:
When calibrating my Kappa, I tried the tilt box method and was surprised how inaccurate it was for me. Maybe the fact that the tilt box is not accurate enough, or maybe the fact that a saw blade body is not necessary ground flat, or a combo?
For me, making test cuts in timber and measuring the results yielded the best calibration. 90 degree cuts in two thickish pieces, butt together and check with a straight edge. 45 degree cuts and then check for square.?
I’d be interested in whether the tilt box works for you. Cheers.? ? I have the procedure, is a digital tilt box accurate enough or am I better of using a vernier scale protractor like the Mitutoyo 187-201. Looks like the tilt boxes are accurate within .2deg.
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Re: Tannewitz Blade Guide choices
I was able to reach Tannewitz by phone as the set of hardened steel blocks for the upper guide was $140 so I ordered them.? A pair of regular steel
blocks for the Carter was only $22 so I am going to try it for a while to see if I like it…joe
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of David Kumm
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 10:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Tannewitz Blade Guide choices
?
I think WWTW sells parts too.? There might be some prices on the website for comparison.? Dave
I decided to try the guides that came with the saw, the Tannewitz on the upper and the Carter on the lower.? I have ordered new wear blocks for the
two guides and I have new rear bearings for both.
?
?
Did you try Woodworkerstoolworks?? I have Wright guides on my 217 and Y20 and like them a lot.? They do support the blades well although I have resawed without any guides.? Dave
The parts guy at Tannewitz expressed a strong preference for the old style blade guides.? He said the steel block style support the blade in two places
and they contact the width of the blade.? The bearing supports in one place and the bearing face is narrower.
?
The machine I bought has the Tannewitz for the upper guide and a Carter CP10 for the lower guide.
?
From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Joe Jensen
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2021 3:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [FOG] Tannewitz Blade Guide choices
?
My Tannewitz came with their old style blade guides with steel wear strips.? Tannewitz now uses ball bearing type guides. I've emailed asking for pricing replacement wear strips and on new guides.? I did see one place selling replacement
wear strips and the set for upper and lower were like $700 !? To put things in perspective, the rear bearing on the original guides in 3" across. I found one new rear bearing assembly on ebay for like $70.? But I will need a second and all new wear strips.
I've been using Laguna ceramic guides for 20 years. I intend to primarily use the Tanny for resawing and plan to mount a resaw feeder to the table.
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I made the simple mod to the hood. I may drill and tap additional holes to get the fence over even further.? I have always hated routers and always
had a shaper so my view is skewed ?
?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]>
On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 11:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Shaper as Router
?
Thanks Joe. Luckily David Best suggested that I keep the stock fence plates when I upgraded, so I still have them.
Since I have a router table, I'm wondering if all the switching time is really worth it. I think not, for most?jobs...
?
Bill, if you don’t modify the hood as other described you need to use the Felder plates.?
I ordered my machine with the Aigner option and they shipped with the Felder plates too.
?
From:
[email protected] <[email protected]>
On Behalf Of Bill Belanger
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2021 8:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Shaper as Router
?
Thanks Imran. I have the router belt, it only aligns with the third pulley on the motor.
The router spindle is unlike the shaper spindle and has only one pulley built into?it.
I’ll check the threads for John’s mod.
?
On Wed, Jan 20, 2021 at 07:54 imranindiana via
<imranindiana=[email protected]> wrote:
On KF700 router spindle requires it’s own belt.
On KF700 hood a modification is needed that John Kee shared for full or better use of router bits.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 9:49 AM, Bill Bélanger <Bllblngr@...> wrote:
?So yesterday I needed a roundover on a 1/2 piece of oak so I figured this is great time to try my new F700Z as a router.
First thing I noticed is that the belt will not fit on the lower motor pulley as shown on the placard on the front of the machine where it looks like you'd get 15,000 RPMs.
It will only go on the 3rd one down.
Second is that with the aigner fence, It will not go back far enough to get to the bearing on the top of the roundover bit.
You cannot use the full bit.
I'm wondering if the original Felder fence will facilitate that last 5mm of travel?
Thanks in advance
Bill Bélanger
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Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Greg, Check the connector too.
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On Jan 20, 2021, at 6:28 PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote: ? Greg,
To me, in way of prioritizing the trouble shooting, I would work on the table saw motor cabling. To be precise, the part between selector switch and the disconnect where you isolated the different motors.
Your trouble shooting points to this section of wiring having the problem and it moves from table saw motor to shaper motor and both motors are fine otherwise.
Imran?
On Jan 20, 2021, at 6:11 PM, Greg Goldin <goldinarch@...> wrote:
?Hi Imran,
First, thanks again for thinking about this crazy situation.
Yes!? Same exact outcome:? Shaper motor attached to Table Saw selector terminals fails to start, and moving the selector off that to either J/P or Shaper (now Table Saw) and neither will start.? Must first be sure selector is not on the TDC selection, and then power off, power on.? Then either of the two motors will work so long as I do not move the selector again through the TDC selection.
Any thoughts?
Was just now about to remove the Table Saw stop button from the equation, in two ways.? First, entirely disconnected so the wires are dangling free; second connect the two wires to mimic N/C which is the regular condition of the stop switch(es).? I will report back shortly.
Greg
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switching time and then the setup time on the shaper drives most people away from using it...?
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Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Greg,
To me, in way of prioritizing the trouble shooting, I would work on the table saw motor cabling. To be precise, the part between selector switch and the disconnect where you isolated the different motors.
Your trouble shooting points to this section of wiring having the problem and it moves from table saw motor to shaper motor and both motors are fine otherwise.
Imran?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 20, 2021, at 6:11 PM, Greg Goldin <goldinarch@...> wrote: ?Hi Imran,
First, thanks again for thinking about this crazy situation.
Yes!? Same exact outcome:? Shaper motor attached to Table Saw selector terminals fails to start, and moving the selector off that to either J/P or Shaper (now Table Saw) and neither will start.? Must first be sure selector is not on the TDC selection, and then power off, power on.? Then either of the two motors will work so long as I do not move the selector again through the TDC selection.
Any thoughts?
Was just now about to remove the Table Saw stop button from the equation, in two ways.? First, entirely disconnected so the wires are dangling free; second connect the two wires to mimic N/C which is the regular condition of the stop switch(es).? I will report back shortly.
Greg
|
Re: Electrical Problem with CF731 Pro
Hi Imran,
First, thanks again for thinking about this crazy situation.
Yes!? Same exact outcome:? Shaper motor attached to Table Saw selector terminals fails to start, and moving the selector off that to either J/P or Shaper (now Table Saw) and neither will start.? Must first be sure selector is not on the TDC selection, and then power off, power on.? Then either of the two motors will work so long as I do not move the selector again through the TDC selection.
Any thoughts?
Was just now about to remove the Table Saw stop button from the equation, in two ways.? First, entirely disconnected so the wires are dangling free; second connect the two wires to mimic N/C which is the regular condition of the stop switch(es).? I will report back shortly.
Greg
|
Re: Calibration of power drive angle
Thanks David,
Like you and Lucky described, I do the cut test to confirm calibration. I calibrate with precision 90 & 45 squares.
I am just curious what my wixey angle gauge does. If memory serves me right if I zero it on the table it shows 0 or 90 depending upon which side I use on the blade.
I do not like using digital angle gauge for calibration because, well it is digital; you do not know when it is going to flip plus it does have repeatability error.
Imran
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Jan 20, 2021, at 5:19 PM, david@... via groups.io <david@...> wrote: ? Imran,?
For the 90° stop, I cross cut a 1x3 on edge with the blade fully up, flip the off-cut over, put the two pieces back together on the bench and check with a straight edge. ?Same method with a 1 x 3 at 45 and check for square.
David
I guess i will need to check my angle gauge now. I did not use it to calibrate 90 & 45 stops on the saw though.
Imran ? I’m with Lucky on this one. ?I have not found that the digital angle indicators produce very accurate results when used the set the angle stops on the saw trunion.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Mark:
When calibrating my Kappa, I tried the tilt box method and was surprised how inaccurate it was for me. Maybe the fact that the tilt box is not accurate enough, or maybe the fact that a saw blade body is not necessary ground flat, or a combo?
For me, making test cuts in timber and measuring the results yielded the best calibration. 90 degree cuts in two thickish pieces, butt together and check with a straight edge. 45 degree cuts and then check for square.?
I’d be interested in whether the tilt box works for you. Cheers.? ? I have the procedure, is a digital tilt box accurate enough or am I better of using a vernier scale protractor like the Mitutoyo 187-201. Looks like the tilt boxes are accurate within .2deg.
|
Re: Calibration of power drive angle
Imran,?
For the 90° stop, I cross cut a 1x3 on edge with the blade fully up, flip the off-cut over, put the two pieces back together on the bench and check with a straight edge. ?Same method with a 1 x 3 at 45 and check for square.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I guess i will need to check my angle gauge now. I did not use it to calibrate 90 & 45 stops on the saw though.
Imran ? I’m with Lucky on this one. ?I have not found that the digital angle indicators produce very accurate results when used the set the angle stops on the saw trunion.
On Jan 20, 2021, at 12:26 PM, David Luckensmeyer < dhluckens@...> wrote:
Hi Mark:
When calibrating my Kappa, I tried the tilt box method and was surprised how inaccurate it was for me. Maybe the fact that the tilt box is not accurate enough, or maybe the fact that a saw blade body is not necessary ground flat, or a combo?
For me, making test cuts in timber and measuring the results yielded the best calibration. 90 degree cuts in two thickish pieces, butt together and check with a straight edge. 45 degree cuts and then check for square.?
I’d be interested in whether the tilt box works for you. Cheers.? ? I have the procedure, is a digital tilt box accurate enough or am I better of using a vernier scale protractor like the Mitutoyo 187-201. Looks like the tilt boxes are accurate within .2deg.
|
imran
David P. Best
David Luckensmeyer
Joe Jensen
Albert Lee