Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 08:05 AM, imranindiana wrote:
can profile 12¡¯ length
12' is really long, do you have some examples for which you needed or would need 12' that you cannot split in two. I can see a quadruple barn door system, but you can always split your top plate in two pieces like people do for crown over very long span as this is not structural. I can see 9ft like for a huge 9ft table top. I never plan above 9 ft, interested to see some example beside the huge garage door in an another thread. Bill
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Anthony
Thanks for the tip. Mike¡¯s video is what got me tuned into the torsion box idea. And his materials and level of finish are about what I need.
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On Dec 8, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Anthony Petty < alpnmp56@...> wrote:
First time posting but longtime reader . Check out Mike Farrington on you tube?
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Re: 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade
freud oshlun and cmt? all have? exactly that
?and they are on amazon
12/9/20 8:11 AM, john adank wrote:
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Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that makes a 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade? I may just have to go with a 10¡± blade bored with a 30mm hole from Ridge carbide or somewhere else.
John
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
My shop is a two car garage with a 16' garage door and a side door.? I have my jointer parallel to and about 18" from the garage door and inline with the side door.? If I need to joint something long I open the side door as needed.? My bandsaw is just inside the outfeed end of the jointer and perpendicular to the garage door and if I need to rip something long I open the garage door.? My shaper sits right behind?the jointer.? My saw is on the wall opposite?the garage door and faces the shaper.? I have the saw up on wood spacers so that if I need to cross cut something really long the cross cut extension?fence rides above the sliding table of my shaper.? I built two lean two structures just outside my garage.? One holds my RL160 and I cut a hole in the side of my garage for the duct work for the dust collector.? That freed up some space.? The other lean to holds my Quincy air compressor and is plumbed into the shop, again freeing up floor space.? Super cramped but at least I only have to live with it for another three years or so until I retire. Dave Davies
On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 8:05 AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Bill,
it may look like unused space but literally there is none to speak off. the 6¡¯ xcut fence & outrigger sweeps the space as far as the slider reaches on outfeed. xcut fence scrapes by the drill press. on the infeed side i use short xcut fence and some room is needed to load/unload the slider. certainly i can roll something in to use the space like FD250 and spindle sander but it cannot stay there.
the other free space is along dual 51 but i keep 12¡¯ free space on infeed and outfeed. same is true with KF i can profile 12¡¯ length if needed. one disadvantage of J/P is that planer is low, although felder separate is likely not much diff. my woodmaster table was high enough to clear a low bench when milling 1x or 2x stuff.
the loss of the corner to stairs is huge.
Imran ?Thanks Imran,
I agree that it is cramped :) and you have a lot of unused spaces.
I just have rough ideas now, but the center of the room has to be free in my mind to allow for passage or for your assembly table/cart on casters. Tools should only be located on the perimeters and one corner used for storage. Like 4 walls should allow for 4 big machines at least and if you stack your separate jointer planer you can push up to 5, assuming your room is wide enough to stack them and still have space in the middle. You should still have some free corner for DC and other stuff. I know that many shop put their table saw in the middle, but I do not see that as an advantage with a 10 ft slider.
In my current garage I have the RL140 in line with the slider (2500) on one single wall and it is really good in term of space usage. The jointer/planner combo is on the adjacent wall. Like RL located after the outfeed table for slider -? slider - combo located on the infeed side of the slider but at 90 degree. I measured recently and I can still put a 10 slider with RL140 and combo planer/jointer for at least 9ft long stock in the same position as my current tools.
Bill
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Hi Drew: I'd be grateful for the Fusion CAD file for your torsion box. I need to replace my assembly table top and this looks like a much better solution than the Home Depot countertops I'm currently using.
Thanks,
Kerry
kerry@...
--
Kerry Smith
Gotham Woodworks
www.gothamwoodworks.com
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
Bill,
it may look like unused space but literally there is none to speak off. the 6¡¯ xcut fence & outrigger sweeps the space as far as the slider reaches on outfeed. xcut fence scrapes by the drill press. on the infeed side i use short xcut fence and some room is needed to load/unload the slider. certainly i can roll something in to use the space like FD250 and spindle sander but it cannot stay there.
the other free space is along dual 51 but i keep 12¡¯ free space on infeed and outfeed. same is true with KF i can profile 12¡¯ length if needed. one disadvantage of J/P is that planer is low, although felder separate is likely not much diff. my woodmaster table was high enough to clear a low bench when milling 1x or 2x stuff.
the loss of the corner to stairs is huge.
Imran
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On Dec 9, 2020, at 8:42 AM, Bill James via groups.io <xxrb2010@...> wrote: ?Thanks Imran,
I agree that it is cramped :) and you have a lot of unused spaces.
I just have rough ideas now, but the center of the room has to be free in my mind to allow for passage or for your assembly table/cart on casters. Tools should only be located on the perimeters and one corner used for storage. Like 4 walls should allow for 4 big machines at least and if you stack your separate jointer planer you can push up to 5, assuming your room is wide enough to stack them and still have space in the middle. You should still have some free corner for DC and other stuff. I know that many shop put their table saw in the middle, but I do not see that as an advantage with a 10 ft slider.
In my current garage I have the RL140 in line with the slider (2500) on one single wall and it is really good in term of space usage. The jointer/planner combo is on the adjacent wall. Like RL located after the outfeed table for slider -? slider - combo located on the infeed side of the slider but at 90 degree. I measured recently and I can still put a 10 slider with RL140 and combo planer/jointer for at least 9ft long stock in the same position as my current tools.
Bill
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Re: 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade
Buy a 48t ATB or TCG and have it reground?
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On Dec 9, 2020, at 8:48 AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? John,
would ATBR grind work? no bat ears.
in above they call it ATAFR.
if this does not work you can call them. they have been very helpful to me in past.
imran
On Dec 9, 2020, at 8:11 AM, john adank <lseap107@...> wrote:
?Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that makes a 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade? ?I may just have to go with a 10¡± blade bored with a 30mm hole from Ridge carbide or somewhere else.
John
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Re: 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade
John,
would ATBR grind work? no bat ears.
in above they call it ATAFR.
if this does not work you can call them. they have been very helpful to me in past.
imran
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On Dec 9, 2020, at 8:11 AM, john adank <lseap107@...> wrote: ?Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that makes a 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade? ?I may just have to go with a 10¡± blade bored with a 30mm hole from Ridge carbide or somewhere else.
John
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
Thanks Imran,
I agree that it is cramped :) and you have a lot of unused spaces.
I just have rough ideas now, but the center of the room has to be free in my mind to allow for passage or for your assembly table/cart on casters. Tools should only be located on the perimeters and one corner used for storage. Like 4 walls should allow for 4 big machines at least and if you stack your separate jointer planer you can push up to 5, assuming your room is wide enough to stack them and still have space in the middle. You should still have some free corner for DC and other stuff. I know that many shop put their table saw in the middle, but I do not see that as an advantage with a 10 ft slider.
In my current garage I have the RL140 in line with the slider (2500) on one single wall and it is really good in term of space usage. The jointer/planner combo is on the adjacent wall. Like RL located after the outfeed table for slider -? slider - combo located on the infeed side of the slider but at 90 degree. I measured recently and I can still put a 10 slider with RL140 and combo planer/jointer for at least 9ft long stock in the same position as my current tools.
Bill
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12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade
Is anyone aware of a manufacturer that makes a 12¡± Flat Top Box Joint blade? I may just have to go with a 10¡± blade bored with a 30mm hole from Ridge carbide or somewhere else.
John
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Re: Recommendations for replacement Universal saw blade for Hammer C3-31?
Any recommendations for a Tenryn supplier in Europe...... when I've looked the postage from US to Europe is crazy.
Jonathan
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, 12:40 Bill Hope, < hope.we@...> wrote: I have a Tenryu cross-cut blade that I'm impressed with.
--
-- Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a Hammer
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
Brett,?
Been running several business for +20 years and helping many others I've seriously doubt that equipment investments in the range 50 - 150k would challenge a serious business. You can lease that quite cheaply these days and it can be a great timesaver for production to have proper equipment (fx. CNC). Compared to?salaries (including your own) that's would then be a small percentage of your recurring costs.?
For example a business expense could look something like:
Salaries: 65%
Rent: 10%
Equipment 10%
Other cost: 10%
Insurance: 5%
A succesful business often depends on finding recurring revenue streams that are profitable (or being able to charge accordingly), to be able to manage a production that delivers expected quality within budget and timeframe. A management that have the skills to run and expand a business.?
--
Regards,
Mikkel
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Re: Recommendations for replacement Universal saw blade for Hammer C3-31?
I have a Tenryu cross-cut blade that I'm impressed with.
--
-- Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a Hammer
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Re: Recommendations for replacement Universal saw blade for Hammer C3-31?
Rodger I would have a look at what CMT have, I use there rip blades and there ok, Scott and Sargent's stock CMT
Jonathan?
On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, 10:18 Roger S, < rsinden@...> wrote: Ordered one from Felder UK with the expectation given of it arriving within 5-6 days.
Now told out of stock¡should be at Felder in 10 days or so¡.which takes us to Christmas and shutdown etc so it won¡¯t be with me until 2021.
So please does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable replacement ?
TIA
Roger
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Recommendations for replacement Universal saw blade for Hammer C3-31?
Ordered one from Felder UK with the expectation given of it arriving within 5-6 days.
Now told out of stock¡should be at Felder in 10 days or so¡.which takes us to Christmas and shutdown etc so it won¡¯t be with me until 2021.
So please does anyone have any recommendations for a suitable replacement ?
TIA
Roger
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Re: Langzauner LZK-3-NCV Edge Sander - new to me
Congratulations! ?What is the deal with that accessory table top that appears to be shop made? ?
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
There is a local cabinet shop that does a surprising bit of work, is decades?old and it's like this: 1. table saw with large plywood extensions to handle sheets. Sheets get stacked vertical on floor against a wall. Almost all jobs start with prefinished plywood even if they end up veneered over or painted on showing faces. 2. Router table with bit sets to make profiles/counterprofiles. Customers can choose from about 12 different options, but that's it. 3. CMS and extension legs 4. Pocket Screw Machine. All face frame construction and boxes are pocket?screwed and yellow glued. 5. Blum hinge boring machine 6. cheap auction find edgebander that cost?more to get running right than it did to buy. 7. Contact Cement spray guns for veneers and a "backstop" wall to spray against 8. Finish room in the back with an exhaust fan that passes inspection 9. No dust collection systems? 10. No fancy anything else. 11. Prints $$$.
My best guess is there's $10,000 total in equipment there, it's astonishing how much more money it takes to pull off anything more than these basics - every specialty step is seemingly exponential in cost escalation. I almost bought a large cabinet shop that was fully optimized, turned the corner and boom! - there was an?entire mirror image wing doubling the size of the shop. I presumed it was to expand production, but no - that was just to accommodate curved pieces and arched panels.? $$$$. I see all these shops closing up and auctioning?off assets and can't help but wonder how much their equipment assets really turned to liabilities pushing?their overhead so high they had to pump out the work at unreal productivity or go bankrupt. I never wanted to be like those shops.
On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:34 PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Bill, ? Your original list included separate jointer and planer (I have combo), edge sander and desire for finishing space. Even though I got machines crammed in my 24x30 space but I do not consider it efficient. I have no significant storage for sheet goods. I cannot move a parts cart easily from machine to machine. As I mentioned, if I was building now I could use same sqft more efficiently but I would still build bigger. Attached is a crude layout since adding K975 earlier this year. ? Imran ? From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Bill James via
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Tools needed for custom kitchen building ? On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:51 PM, imranindiana wrote: 2 machines with single aisle or 3 machines with 2 aisles
Interesting, I already plan to have the option to put a jointer and a planer later in the same aisle on the long side and the sliding table saw on the other side. I guess a dedicated planer does not need any side access. I am surprise you find it too small. It looks like your shop if you exclude the stair part and way less machines :). I tried to get some shop floor plan idea over google, but there is not a lot of plan outside a standard 2 car garages and even less with a sliding table saw. If you already have a floor plan of your shop I would be glad to have a look, if not, do not make one just for this thread.
Bill
-- Brett Wissel Saint Louis Restoration 1831 S Kingshighway Blvd (at Shaw Blvd) St Louis, MO 63110 314.772.2167 brett@...
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
Bill, ? Your original list included separate jointer and planer (I have combo), edge sander and desire for finishing space. Even though I got machines crammed in my 24x30 space but I do not consider it efficient. I have no significant storage for sheet goods. I cannot move a parts cart easily from machine to machine. As I mentioned, if I was building now I could use same sqft more efficiently but I would still build bigger. Attached is a crude layout since adding K975 earlier this year. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of Bill James via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2020 6:12 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Tools needed for custom kitchen building ? On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 12:51 PM, imranindiana wrote: 2 machines with single aisle or 3 machines with 2 aisles
Interesting, I already plan to have the option to put a jointer and a planer later in the same aisle on the long side and the sliding table saw on the other side. I guess a dedicated planer does not need any side access. I am surprise you find it too small. It looks like your shop if you exclude the stair part and way less machines :). I tried to get some shop floor plan idea over google, but there is not a lot of plan outside a standard 2 car garages and even less with a sliding table saw. If you already have a floor plan of your shop I would be glad to have a look, if not, do not make one just for this thread.
Bill
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First time posting but longtime reader . Check out Mike Farrington on you tube?
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Re: Tools needed for custom kitchen building
I agree that Whitehill tools are a better value especially for hobbyists. ?I¡¯ve had excellent support working with them on custom knives for my combi head.? I have multiple adjustable groovers from them which are excellent to use. ????? ?
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From: [email protected] < [email protected]> On Behalf Of david@... via groups.io Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 4:53 PM To: [email protected]Subject: Re: [FOG] Tools needed for custom kitchen building ? Rangate is terrific for production shops that need support. ?You will find better value from Whitehill Tools. ?
? If I was to do it just once, I¡¯d investigate Rangate¡¯s cuttershare and get the zuani /twt tooling temporarily. If you have it planned well you could probably run all your doors in a day for a kitchen and for a very reasonable price. I¡¯d hang on to it until I got the doors assembled just in case though.? Rangate Cabinet set is awesome, expensive, and way out of range of necessity for a single kitchen. But if you do either production or don¡¯t want to make sacrifices and do custom profiles like myself it pays off.? If you want to collect amana and cmt have done well for me on less essential profile projects. I have not much experience with Freud shaper cutters. Lots of good feedback on freeborn too, although they are also somewhat pricey.?
Bill, Rangate shaper cutters are nice, but very expensive. Good for production work. For the shake door you plan to make, this Amana cutter () is absolutely?fine. For the cabinet door panel, MDF is definitely?better than the wood panel.? Lots of high end furnitures?are made of MDF torsion box with beautiful veneers. ? On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 02:31 PM, jontathan samways wrote: is an MDF door kitchen
Nice, it looks like they use the same sort of cutter I saw from Rangate with the slight bevel added from a basic groove cutter. I also see a huge column door, I would have gone with MDF in this condition too but without that huge panel on the right of that column that even protrude the baseplate :)
I despise cutting MDF, I might definitively go with someone else doing if it end up with MDF.
Bill
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Kerryj_smith
imran
Bill Hope