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Re: AF-22 Dust Collector

Charlie Norton
 

I cannot respond regarding three phase vs single phase in the Felder AF-22,
but my BF7-41 originally shipped with single phase motors which were (in my
opinion) noisy and caused the machine base to vibrate. Felder graciously
swapped out the motors for three phase which were quieter and produced
dramatically lower vibration.

Felder hinted that the single phase motor supplier was providing motors that
had a wide range of these characteristics...that is some were as quiet as a
three phase and some were much, much noisier. I don't know if the same
supplier is used for the dust collector.

Single and three phase motors should produce roughly the same rotation speed
when powered from the same line frequency. The synch speed is obviously the
same and the slip is within a couple percent.

I use a single phase 3HP Leeson powered blower exhausting a cyclone and it
sounds like an F-16! I have mounted the unit in the attic above my garage
to keep the noise out of the working area. I have yet to complete the air
ducting, so I hope this works out.

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: Sunday, February 13, 2000 6:16 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] AF-22 Dust Collector


John,

Is your AF-22 dust collector single phase? I gather it is based on your
comments of using a standard X-10 compatible wireless 220v switch. At the
other Felder owner's shop in Seattle that I visited yesterday, he told me
about his experience with his AF-22 being too noisy. That unit was also
single-phase. According to the Felder rep who visited, the problem on the
older versions of the AF-22 was that the single-phase motor was rated for
50
Hz, but on 60 Hz it ran 20% faster which threw a big wrench into their
careful system design. They tried to subsitute a smaller impeller, but
couldn't pull the existing one off the shaft. That particular unit went
back
to Felder and was replaced with an Oneida 2hp cyclone system.

As you know, I couldn't believe how quietly the used AF-22 I bought with my
BF6-31 ran when I tried it out before buying. That unit is a three-phase
model, and may not be affected by the same issue of running too fast. Not
sure why that would be, but it was something we wondered about while
discussing it yesterday.

Any thoughts, John or anyone else? Does anyone else have an relatively
quiet
running AF-22? Single phase or three phase? Anyone have the new redesigned
AF-22LN? How quiet is it? With my preoccupation with power tool noise,
maybe
I should buy a sound level meter one of these days!

--
Geoff Shepherd
(felder-woodworking group manager)
mailto:Geoff@...
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 (not wired in yet!)



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Re: AF-22 Dust Collector

Richard McComas
 

Geoff, I bought the AF-22 LN at the IFW show in Anaheim last July.
John Renzetti clued me in on the LN version other wise I may have ended
up the other as none of the sale people made a reverence to either
one. Anyway the AF-22 LN is my first dust collection system other than
the old Sears ShopVac I have so I don't really have anything to compare
to. I will say that I find the noise level of the LN to be quite
acceptable. The pitch of the noise is more of a low sound rather than
the high pitch of my shop vac, when using my AD-471 Jointer/planer I
hardly hear it over the noise generated my the AD-741. Presently I
have the AF-22 LN connected to the AD-741 with a 24' piece of flexible
hose so this put the unit fairly close to the work area. Rich


"geoff shepherd" <geof-@...> wrote:
original article:
=52
John,

Is your AF-22 dust collector single phase? I gather it is based on
your
comments of using a standard X-10 compatible wireless 220v switch. At
the
other Felder owner's shop in Seattle that I visited yesterday, he
told me
about his experience with his AF-22 being too noisy. That unit was
also
single-phase. According to the Felder rep who visited, the problem on
the
older versions of the AF-22 was that the single-phase motor was rated
for 50
Hz, but on 60 Hz it ran 20% faster which threw a big wrench into their
careful system design. They tried to subsitute a smaller impeller, but
couldn't pull the existing one off the shaft. That particular unit
went back
to Felder and was replaced with an Oneida 2hp cyclone system.

As you know, I couldn't believe how quietly the used AF-22 I bought
with my
BF6-31 ran when I tried it out before buying. That unit is a
three-phase
model, and may not be affected by the same issue of running too fast.
Not
sure why that would be, but it was something we wondered about while
discussing it yesterday.

Any thoughts, John or anyone else? Does anyone else have an
relatively quiet
running AF-22? Single phase or three phase? Anyone have the new
redesigned
AF-22LN? How quiet is it? With my preoccupation with power tool
noise, maybe
I should buy a sound level meter one of these days!

--
Geoff Shepherd
(felder-woodworking group manager)
mailto:Geoff@...
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 (not wired in yet!)
new link, adding links

John Renzetti
 

With David's permission I just added a link to Felder owner/member
David DeCristoforo's web site. IF you like chess and the related
equipment you'll enjoy this site plus see some of the things that David
makes. If any other member has a personal website or another favorite
let us know. I'm not sure right now if Geoff or myself have to add it
or you can do it if you know the secret handshake,etc. I'm new to the
website thing and Geoff has been guiding me along.
Now I'm off on a couple day trip out west.
Take care,
John
PS I also added txt files along side the doc files over in the vault.
AF22 dust collector

John Renzetti
 

My AF22 is single phase. And it is one of the noisey ones. I use the
x10 remote on it and that works fine. When Geoff visited the shop about
six months ago he noted that the motorfan may be slightly out of
balance which may account for the noise. I'm going to check with John
Hartshorne to see what recommendations there could be to check for
balance. One thing I'd like to see Felder offer is a larger pleated
drum filter. The regular is great but when you use a drum sander or cut
mdf or other sheet goods, you have to be careful it doesn't clog too
quickly. More frequent cleanouts of the pleats are necessary to get out
the superfine particles. Still it is compact and very powerful. I
wonder if I could retrofit the new LN motor and fan.
Take care,
John Renzetti
Chadds Ford PA
KF7F,AD7-41
Emails from the FELDER E Group

Tom Van Alstyne
 

Geoff-

Please tell me how to remove my name from automaticaly getting
all of the postings from the FELDER eGroup list.

Thanks - Tom
Re: AF-22 Dust Collector

Philip Tamarkin
 

...after looking around, I'm having a (single phase) Oneida 1.5 hp. system shipped to me this week - will post after I've had it hooked up - they claim 75-80 db (Leeson 3450 rpm motor) and also offer a silencer to further reduce noise.? I've also built a simple relay system that allows control of my dust collector from any machine location - control wires @ 24 volt, so any small 2-wire jacketed wire works great (phone wire, thermostat cable, etc.) simple off-the-shelf Grainger parts, about $35 in parts.? Email me off list if you want specifics.

It's been my experience that noise in fan systems is almost always a fan balance problem - cheap collectors are notorious for out-of-balance fans - Oneida offers a balanced refit for the 2hp Taiwanese fans that's supposed to cut noise and vibration tremendously.? I'm surprised that fan noise would be much affected by the speed difference between a 50hz and 60hz motor - suspect that Felder's fan source has some QC issues...
?
Hearing protection is critical!!!? Those who know about these things claim that 5 minutes exposure to levels exceeded in woodworking can cause permanent and irreparable damage - I've got 30 years in the trades, and, like a fool, worked without hearing protection during the first part (as we were all too macho to wear headphones), causing significant hearing loss.? My solution, after trying every headphone available, is to go with the cheapie foam plugs (connected with an orange plastic cord - Grainger again...) AT ALL TIMES!? They're comfortable enough to wear all day, and you can converse while wearing them when the machinery is off.? I've got a set of Peltor phones for short -term realy noisy stuff like planing - they'll knock off a couple more db than the plugs.? Like everything else, hearing protection becomes a habit -
?

Nibs1@... wrote:

I have a 3 phase AF-22 and it's very noisy so I definitely wear ear
protection every time I turn any of my machines on.

Larry J

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Re: new link, adding links

John Hartshorne
 

Hi Group,
David's chess tables are candy for the eyes. But most importantly he
makes them on a Felder BF6-31. the joinery is a two flute glue joint
cutter also a Felder product. It works very well.
Enjoy the site,
JH


"john renzetti" <j.renzett-@...> wrote:
original article:
=58
With David's permission I just added a link to Felder owner/member
David DeCristoforo's web site. IF you like chess and the related
equipment you'll enjoy this site plus see some of the things that
David
makes. If any other member has a personal website or another favorite
let us know. I'm not sure right now if Geoff or myself have to add it
or you can do it if you know the secret handshake,etc. I'm new to the
website thing and Geoff has been guiding me along.
Now I'm off on a couple day trip out west.
Take care,
John
PS I also added txt files along side the doc files over in the vault.

Re: AF22 dust collector

John Hartshorne
 

Dear John,

The AF-22 you have is quite noisey due to the fact it is running a 50Hz
impeller(Fan)with the 60Hz moto it is running almost 20% faster. The on
thing we can say is it really sucks! Reguarding fan balance it is
static balanced
and there for you see a little wobble at the end of the shut down
cycle( after the power has been turned off)this is normal. However a
quality motor shop could balance it as an assembly. I don't know the
cost it could vary depending where you have it done.
Thanks,
JH




"john renzetti" <j.renzett-@...> wrote:
original article:
=59
My AF22 is single phase. And it is one of the noisey ones. I use the
x10 remote on it and that works fine. When Geoff visited the shop
about
six months ago he noted that the motorfan may be slightly out of
balance which may account for the noise. I'm going to check with John
Hartshorne to see what recommendations there could be to check for
balance. One thing I'd like to see Felder offer is a larger pleated
drum filter. The regular is great but when you use a drum sander or
cut
mdf or other sheet goods, you have to be careful it doesn't clog too
quickly. More frequent cleanouts of the pleats are necessary to get
out
the superfine particles. Still it is compact and very powerful. I
wonder if I could retrofit the new LN motor and fan.
Take care,
John Renzetti
Chadds Ford PA
KF7F,AD7-41
Re: AF-22 Dust Collector

John Hartshorne
 

Dear Richard,

You do have a LN or lower noise unit as we stopped bring in the 50Hz
fan models right after John received his. We new he was a sucker, so we
gave him a unit that really sucks. All kidding aside both work very
well, but the earlier models were louder.

JH





"richard mccomas" <rmccoma-@...> wrote:
original article:
=55
Geoff, I bought the AF-22 LN at the IFW show in Anaheim last July.
John Renzetti clued me in on the LN version other wise I may have
ended
up the other as none of the sale people made a reverence to either
one. Anyway the AF-22 LN is my first dust collection system other
than
the old Sears ShopVac I have so I don't really have anything to
compare
to. I will say that I find the noise level of the LN to be quite
acceptable. The pitch of the noise is more of a low sound rather than
the high pitch of my shop vac, when using my AD-471 Jointer/planer I
hardly hear it over the noise generated my the AD-741. Presently I
have the AF-22 LN connected to the AD-741 with a 24' piece of flexible
hose so this put the unit fairly close to the work area. Rich


"geoff shepherd" <geof-@...> wrote:
original article:
rt
=52
John,

Is your AF-22 dust collector single phase? I gather it is based on
your
comments of using a standard X-10 compatible wireless 220v switch.
At
the
other Felder owner's shop in Seattle that I visited yesterday, he
told me
about his experience with his AF-22 being too noisy. That unit was
also
single-phase. According to the Felder rep who visited, the problem
on
the
older versions of the AF-22 was that the single-phase motor was
rated
for 50
Hz, but on 60 Hz it ran 20% faster which threw a big wrench into
their
careful system design. They tried to subsitute a smaller impeller,
but
couldn't pull the existing one off the shaft. That particular unit
went back
to Felder and was replaced with an Oneida 2hp cyclone system.

As you know, I couldn't believe how quietly the used AF-22 I bought
with my
BF6-31 ran when I tried it out before buying. That unit is a
three-phase
model, and may not be affected by the same issue of running too
fast.
Not
sure why that would be, but it was something we wondered about while
discussing it yesterday.

Any thoughts, John or anyone else? Does anyone else have an
relatively quiet
running AF-22? Single phase or three phase? Anyone have the new
redesigned
AF-22LN? How quiet is it? With my preoccupation with power tool
noise, maybe
I should buy a sound level meter one of these days!

--
Geoff Shepherd
(felder-woodworking group manager)
mailto:Geoff@...
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 (not wired in yet!)
Responces to Tech questions or comments

John Hartshorne
 

Dear group,

I will try to respond to questions or comments and new ideas as soon as
I can. However, if you have problem that needs urgent attention please
email me directly at: john@... or call me at: 1800-572-0061
toll free.
New ideas or product quality remarks will be forwarded to our factory.
There the R&D department will consider the info as they have for years.
Some times changes come quickly and sometimes they come slowly.

I look forward to hearing from you,

John Hartshorne
Re: Emails from the FELDER E Group

Geoff Shepherd
 

Tom,

If you want to remove yourself from the group entirely, just send a blank
e-mail to felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@... (these instructions are
also at the bottom of every message from the group).

If you want to stay a member of the group, but not have the e-mails sent to
you, visit and
click on the "Members" tab. You may be asked to establish an eGroups account
to use some of the web site features, and that is easy to do if you follow
their instructions. Once you get to the members tab, you can find your own
name and click on it. There you can view and set your membership options,
including whether you want messages delivered to you via e-mail, or if you
prefer to read them from the web site at your convenience.

Hope that makes sense! I can also make these changes for you should you have
difficulty getting it to work - just send me an e-mail and tell me how you
want it.

--
Geoff Shepherd
(felder-woodworking list manager)
mailto:Geoff@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Van Alstyne <tom@...>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 5:35 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Emails from the FELDER E Group


Geoff-

Please tell me how to remove my name from automaticaly getting
all of the postings from the FELDER eGroup list.

Thanks - Tom
Re: AF22 dust collector

Geoff Shepherd
 

What was changed on the AF-22 LN to make it Low Noise?

..Geoff
Man, that sucks! (AF-22)

Geoff Shepherd
 

I just got my AF-22 wired up last night... after getting the motor running
in the right direction (it's 3-phase), I connected the hoses, double-checked
the bags and pleated drum filter, then hit the Start button. Wooosh! It was
up to speed and moving a LOT of air... then something caused it to labor for
a half-second and I couldn't find the cat anymore... (just kidding). This DC
has an amazing amount of suction and air flow... the noise it makes is
mostly moving air and isn't loud enough to warrant hearing protection in my
estimation... in fact, it is barely audible outside of the shop (uninsulated
as of now). Well, it looks like since this thing really sucks, it'll
probably just sit in the corner and collect dust.. (OK, I'll stop now.. it
must be terribly annoying by now).

The two Felder-brand plastic collection bags that came with the machine were
full of holes (and liberally duct taped).. oh - I should mention here that I
bought the machine used, so no, I'm sure it didn't come from the factory
like that!! Anyway, I didn't want to risk a big dust cloud in the shop, and
I haven't received my package of new bags yet (probably today)... however, I
found bags that will work perfectly well anyway, only they are not clear:
42-gallon Ruffies-brand "Contractor Clean-up Bags." They are 3-mil thick and
resist puncture since they are intended for cleaning up remodeling messes
like nails and drywall scraps - I use them all the time when working on the
house. They happen to fit the machine perfectly and are just the right
height so they are supported from below. The only problem is they are
opaque-black so you cannot visually monitor how full they are getting, and
they don't have the cool FELDER logo on them... but at $6 for a roll of 10,
they are cost effective if they aren't being reused (unlike a lot of you, I
don't have a place to compost piles of sawdust, so it must go to the dump or
be picked up curbside... unless I added that $42,000 hydraulic-ram pellet
making machine to my shop... hmm! naw...).

Well, now I know why my AF-22 is relatively quiet... I finally discovered
the plate that lists the model number, serial number, etc... it's under the
"deck" near the motor tucked away in the corner. Aha! -- "AF-22 LN"... so it
is the new Low Noise version after all - good! Wonder how I missed that
before. It also sports a 3kW/3ph motor rather than the 2.2kW/3ph motors in
my BF6-31... what does that equate to in horsepower? I thought my BF6-31 was
effectively 4HP, but if 1HP = 740W (more or less), then my BF6-31 is more
like 3HP and the AF-22 would be 4HP. Is it calculated differently for
3-phase motors? Am I all screwed up on this??! Also, in a dust collector
such as the AF-22, is the motor under full load all the time?

On a related question... I read in my residential wiring text book (vintage
1990) that given the same horsepower and supply voltage, a 3-phase motor
will draw about 55% of the full-load current (amps) as a single-phase motor
(this is listed in tables from the NEC, and the exact ratio varies depending
on horsepower). Does this take into account three hot legs vs. two hot legs?
In other words, is it like comparing apples to oranges? I was thus far under
the impression that three-phase motors were significantly more effecient
than single-phase. Maybe this ties in with computing horsepower from Watts
as above.

Have a great day...
--
Geoff Shepherd
(forum manager)
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 LN
Voting Results: Tooling Discount for the forum

eGroups.com Poll Results
 

Here are the results of the vote:

1. Great Idea. 11
Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

Geoff Shepherd
 

Who uploaded the file 2-PIC00008.jpg in the main folder of the Vault?
It looks like a good picture, but I'd like to move it to an appropriate
sub-folder within the Member Shop & Project Pictures.

Now that we've hashed out some guidelines on using the vault, I've
uploaded an HTML document everyone should take a look through before
uploading. They are just guidelines, open for modification and
bending...

Although I think we should discourage uploading files in MS-Word (DOC)
format, that doesn't change the fact that there are already many DOC
files in the Vault. For those who don't own a copy of Microsoft Word,
there is a free Word Viewer available from Microsoft - see the Links
section on our member site. Unfortunately, it is a Windows only
version, so Mac users may still be out of luck unless they own a word
processor that can import MS-Word files or can run the Word Viewer in a
Windows Emulator.

--
Geoff Shepherd
(group manager)
Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

Joel Cohen
 

Geoff,

It was I. I did not known what I was doing . You can delete it as I have
duplicated the pic I my vault.

Thanks,

Joel Cohen
BF7-41F,

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 4:22 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??

Who uploaded the file 2-PIC00008.jpg in the main folder of the
Vault?
It looks like a good picture, but I'd like to move it to an
appropriate
sub-folder within the Member Shop & Project Pictures.

Now that we've hashed out some guidelines on using the vault, I've
uploaded an HTML document everyone should take a look through before
uploading. They are just guidelines, open for modification and
bending...

Although I think we should discourage uploading files in MS-Word
(DOC)
format, that doesn't change the fact that there are already many DOC
files in the Vault. For those who don't own a copy of Microsoft
Word,
there is a free Word Viewer available from Microsoft - see the Links
section on our member site. Unfortunately, it is a Windows only
version, so Mac users may still be out of luck unless they own a
word
processor that can import MS-Word files or can run the Word Viewer
in a
Windows Emulator.

--
Geoff Shepherd
(group manager)




------------------------------------------------------------------------
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To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
felder-woodworking-unsubscribe@...


------------------------------------------------------------------------
eLerts!
It's easy. It's fun. Best of all, it's free.


-- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault
--

Joel's pics

Geoff Shepherd
 

Joel,

Don't worry about it - I think we're inventing this thing as we go along...
I deleted the picture for you.

I like your shop photos, and I even recognized most of the tools you have...
but... what are the miniature tools on your desk there? It looks like a tiny
table saw and a miniature planer... did I guess right?

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??


Geoff,

It was I. I did not known what I was doing . You can delete it as I have
duplicated the pic I my vault.
Re: Man, that sucks! (AF-22)

Charlie Norton
 

A 3kW output motor is indeed 4HP.

A dust collector motor, if properly designed, will be a full load at all
times.

A 3-phase motor is generally much more efficient than a single phase motor.
The RMS current in each phase of a 3-phase transmission line is 57.8 percent
(1 over the square root of 3) of the RMS current in a single phase line, for
the same power transmitted at the same RMS line voltage. This of course, is
for phases of equal amplitude separated by 120 degrees. I'm not sure what
happens to these currents when the machine is powered from a rotary phase
converter.

What does Felder advertise for airflow?

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd <geoff@...>
To: felder-woodworking@... <felder-woodworking@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 11:19 AM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Man, that sucks! (AF-22)


I just got my AF-22 wired up last night... after getting the motor running
in the right direction (it's 3-phase), I connected the hoses,
double-checked
the bags and pleated drum filter, then hit the Start button. Wooosh! It was
up to speed and moving a LOT of air... then something caused it to labor
for
a half-second and I couldn't find the cat anymore... (just kidding). This
DC
has an amazing amount of suction and air flow... the noise it makes is
mostly moving air and isn't loud enough to warrant hearing protection in my
estimation... in fact, it is barely audible outside of the shop
(uninsulated
as of now). Well, it looks like since this thing really sucks, it'll
probably just sit in the corner and collect dust.. (OK, I'll stop now.. it
must be terribly annoying by now).

The two Felder-brand plastic collection bags that came with the machine
were
full of holes (and liberally duct taped).. oh - I should mention here that
I
bought the machine used, so no, I'm sure it didn't come from the factory
like that!! Anyway, I didn't want to risk a big dust cloud in the shop, and
I haven't received my package of new bags yet (probably today)... however,
I
found bags that will work perfectly well anyway, only they are not clear:
42-gallon Ruffies-brand "Contractor Clean-up Bags." They are 3-mil thick
and
resist puncture since they are intended for cleaning up remodeling messes
like nails and drywall scraps - I use them all the time when working on the
house. They happen to fit the machine perfectly and are just the right
height so they are supported from below. The only problem is they are
opaque-black so you cannot visually monitor how full they are getting, and
they don't have the cool FELDER logo on them... but at $6 for a roll of 10,
they are cost effective if they aren't being reused (unlike a lot of you, I
don't have a place to compost piles of sawdust, so it must go to the dump
or
be picked up curbside... unless I added that $42,000 hydraulic-ram pellet
making machine to my shop... hmm! naw...).

Well, now I know why my AF-22 is relatively quiet... I finally discovered
the plate that lists the model number, serial number, etc... it's under the
"deck" near the motor tucked away in the corner. Aha! -- "AF-22 LN"... so
it
is the new Low Noise version after all - good! Wonder how I missed that
before. It also sports a 3kW/3ph motor rather than the 2.2kW/3ph motors in
my BF6-31... what does that equate to in horsepower? I thought my BF6-31
was
effectively 4HP, but if 1HP = 740W (more or less), then my BF6-31 is more
like 3HP and the AF-22 would be 4HP. Is it calculated differently for
3-phase motors? Am I all screwed up on this??! Also, in a dust collector
such as the AF-22, is the motor under full load all the time?

On a related question... I read in my residential wiring text book (vintage
1990) that given the same horsepower and supply voltage, a 3-phase motor
will draw about 55% of the full-load current (amps) as a single-phase motor
(this is listed in tables from the NEC, and the exact ratio varies
depending
on horsepower). Does this take into account three hot legs vs. two hot
legs?
In other words, is it like comparing apples to oranges? I was thus far
under
the impression that three-phase motors were significantly more effecient
than single-phase. Maybe this ties in with computing horsepower from Watts
as above.

Have a great day...
--
Geoff Shepherd
(forum manager)
Everett, WA
BF6-31, AF-22 LN



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Re: Man, that sucks! (AF-22)

Geoff Shepherd
 

Charlie,

The only air-flow specs I have for the AF-22 are the ones in the manual, and
it makes reference to a 2.2kW motor. If you don't already have those specs,
it's hard to describe in a few words since they show it as three fan curves
depending on inlet/hose size. The most airflow shown is 3000 m3/h at 250 Pa
via a 160mm connector directly at the intake of the blower. Following that
curve, we hit 2500 m3/h at around 1250 Pa, and 1500 m3/h at 2300 Pa.

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Norton <cnorton@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 7:02 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Man, that sucks! (AF-22)


What does Felder advertise for airflow?
Re: Joel's pics

Joel Cohen
 

Geoff,

? right , they are a table saw and thickness sander. I got them after I got
the Felder and found out that I could not cut the miniature pieces I needed
for the small boxes I make. They are from Preac and are precision tools,
much like the Felder on a smaller scale.

Joel

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Shepherd [SMTP:geoff@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 6:31 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Joel's pics

Joel,

Don't worry about it - I think we're inventing this thing as we go
along...
I deleted the picture for you.

I like your shop photos, and I even recognized most of the tools you
have...
but... what are the miniature tools on your desk there? It looks
like a tiny
table saw and a miniature planer... did I guess right?

..Geoff

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Cohen <Jcohen@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 1:30 PM
Subject: [felder-woodworking] Re: Who uploaded 2-PIC00008.jpg ??


> Geoff,
>
> It was I. I did not known what I was doing . You can delete it as
I have
> duplicated the pic I my vault.




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