Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Leveling the flat bars all the way around was the first thing I did
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Regards, Ron
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Re: Version 2.0 Fritz & Franz jig
Very nice JP.
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I built something similar with Lee Valley stops, the black knob threads into a flat washer in the sliding table T slot to keep the rear F&F jig piece in place.
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The aluminium tracks are held in with T bolts and nylock nuts which allows side to side length calibration.
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Regards, Rod.
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Jason, no I was referring to making sure that the fence mounting rails are parallel to the table surface.
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Since the fence is out of square in opposite directions on either side of the blade, it indicated to me that the mounting rails are cocked in opposite directions.
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Regards, Rod.
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Ron,? When you are talking about adjusting toe in-out, are you referring to drift?
Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765 -- Jason J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Ron, try adjusting the flat bars bolted to the sides of the table.
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I bet if you check they aren't parallel to the top of the table.
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Regards, Rod.
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
OK, the nylon nuts adjust so it rests level to the table, also, you can jack up/down the far end to get your fence level to the table. If those set screws go into the slot and hit the steel bar, that's to prevent over tightening of the center bolt causing the clamping pressure to bow the fence, front to back.
You might want to add some shims to the knuckle where it contacts the f-channel and see how much out of square it is. It could be re-machined, or add a set screw to be able to jack up the low side.
Do they have an exploded diagram in the parts list, or post pictures of the whole thing.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, December 12, 2024 at 12:09:59 PM MST, Ron Pomeroy via groups.io <rpomeroy@...> wrote:
The set screws protrude through alright - but they go through the slot in the fence and hit nut (long metal bar) that holds the fence to the knuckle. A Felder tech was in the Seattle area and stopped by. ?I challenged him to explain how this setup could actually adjust toe-out. ?In the end he had to agree with me (or maybe he was just being nice?). ?As the set screws move outward they just push on the nut and that just stops the nut before it touches the inside of the t-slot - preventing the nut from pinning the fence to the milled surfaces of the knuckle - leaving the fence loose. ?It¡¯s not theory - I found this out by adjusting the set screws across their entire range. ?I think the design is flawed - or the factory is not producing to the actual design - or I¡¯m just missing something. ?If the set screws somehow pressed on the fence itself it would deflect the fence. ?I¡¯ll post some pics later.
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As for Toms comments about the offering the square to the knuckle face: I did put a smaller square against the face and it¡¯s consistent with everything else I¡¯m seeing. ?I checked the aluminum fence extrusion separately for both sides (t-slot and face) being parallel to each other. ?The holes for the long bolt and knob combo to fasten the fence to the knuckle a not tapped or precise. ?There¡¯s lots of extra room to make getting the fence on the knuckle. ?This doesn¡¯t play a role in the squareness problem. ?the milled surfaces on the knuckle have a raised bit that rides in the opening in the t-slot allowing the fence to lay flat against the reference milled surfaces. ?These are the only thing determining geometry between the fence and the knuckle.
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I¡¯m in ongoing discussions with Felder tech support to run down both the manufacturing and (potential) design problem. ?Note that the flat bar that the knuckle rides on connects to the table via three adjustable nuts. These can (and I think are intended) be adjusted to change toe out of the entire fence assembly. I think this is the intended way to change toe out. ?It leaves open the question of the how the set screws (not the nylon ones) function. ???
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
The set screws protrude through alright - but they go through the slot in the fence and hit nut (long metal bar) that holds the fence to the knuckle. A Felder tech was in the Seattle area and stopped by. ?I challenged him to explain how this setup could actually adjust toe-out. ?In the end he had to agree with me (or maybe he was just being nice?). ?As the set screws move outward they just push on the nut and that just stops the nut before it touches the inside of the t-slot - preventing the nut from pinning the fence to the milled surfaces of the knuckle - leaving the fence loose. ?It¡¯s not theory - I found this out by adjusting the set screws across their entire range. ?I think the design is flawed - or the factory is not producing to the actual design - or I¡¯m just missing something. ?If the set screws somehow pressed on the fence itself it would deflect the fence. ?I¡¯ll post some pics later.
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As for Toms comments about the offering the square to the knuckle face: I did put a smaller square against the face and it¡¯s consistent with everything else I¡¯m seeing. ?I checked the aluminum fence extrusion separately for both sides (t-slot and face) being parallel to each other. ?The holes for the long bolt and knob combo to fasten the fence to the knuckle a not tapped or precise. ?There¡¯s lots of extra room to make getting the fence on the knuckle. ?This doesn¡¯t play a role in the squareness problem. ?the milled surfaces on the knuckle have a raised bit that rides in the opening in the t-slot allowing the fence to lay flat against the reference milled surfaces. ?These are the only thing determining geometry between the fence and the knuckle.
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I¡¯m in ongoing discussions with Felder tech support to run down both the manufacturing and (potential) design problem. ?Note that the flat bar that the knuckle rides on connects to the table via three adjustable nuts. These can (and I think are intended) be adjusted to change toe out of the entire fence assembly. I think this is the intended way to change toe out. ?It leaves open the question of the how the set screws (not the nylon ones) function. ???
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
I've had a FB610 for over a year and noticed the same issue with the fence being out of square with the table. Adjusting the white colored hex bolts that Brian has pointed out corrected most of the issue. However, the alum fence is still bowed in the center (top to bottom). The gap due to the bow is ~0.003" (see attached photo) but it varies over the length of the fence. At least for how I use the saw, this gap is insignificant.?
Regards,
Darrell Miller
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Re: Christmas in November
Michael and Imran,
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Thanks for the suggestions. I will clean the rails, and also see if moving the slider clears the issue. I will also pay attention to the saw cover to see if there is a correlation there.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Christmas in November
Hi John, ? I recently commissioned a KF700 and it had the intermittent start issue. It went away with cleaning the slider parts used to send the electrical signal to/from switches on the slider. You may be past this point but just thought I share. ? Imran ?
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From: [email protected] On Behalf Of John Hinman via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, December 11, 2024 7:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Christmas in November? David, my wife calls me a ¡°gadget guy¡± because I love gadgets and gizmos. I will be happy to share experiences with this system as I figure it out. The PCS is ¡°only¡± $7,500, not $10,000, by the way. The PCS is now working with my 300mm Tenryu and Amana blades, with no issues or hiccups. ?When the technician and I tried a Tenryu yesterday the system would not give us a signal that it worked, but apparently that was because the PCS was not set up correctly and not because the blade was not compatible. The only issue I am still trying to resolve is an intermittent failure to start. I have not identified the conditions that cause it, but the saw simply does not respond to the ¡°start¡± button. Turning the main power switch off and on, which re-boots the computer, gets me going again. I have a call in to the technician, as that is not acceptable behavior. John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
The picture posted shows the adjustment for square. The circled hex nuts are to make sure there is no rock or twist in the knuckle when it is clamped to the bar and resting on the table surface. Then the four set screws and lock nuts on the inside are to protrude thru the housing and rest against the fence extrusion and adjust for square to the table. You just need to adjust those to solve your problem.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Thursday, December 12, 2024 at 04:34:19 AM MST, Tom Trees via groups.io <tomgwoodworks@...> wrote:
It wouldn't be surprised if there were say, one or two degrees intentionally biased, regarding the face of the knuckle casting,
in order to keep the extrusion flat on the table, when it's cinched down.
Perhaps that might partially explain why there is such a error... and should this be the design,
it could well be that the holes drilled for the profile connector should have been done before said milling procedure,
instead of after, and those holes infact should be parallel with the fence rail/table, but aren't.
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I'm sure the folks at Felder, or indeed prospective buyers of such, would appreciate seeing some more pics.
and if you had some suitable threaded rod or long bolts, it might show this up, should such a systematic error be evident.
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Such may be worth noting, should you have only offered a square to the knuckle face, (without the extrusion attached)
Likely wishful thinking, but worth a shot.
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All the best
Tom
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
It wouldn't be surprised if there were say, one or two degrees intentionally biased, regarding the face of the knuckle casting,
in order to keep the extrusion flat on the table, when it's cinched down.
Perhaps that might partially explain why there is such a error... and should this be the design,
it could well be that the holes drilled for the profile connector should have been done before said milling procedure,
instead of after, and those holes infact should be parallel with the fence rail/table, but aren't.
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I'm sure the folks at Felder, or indeed prospective buyers of such, would appreciate seeing some more pics.
and if you had some suitable threaded rod or long bolts, it might show this up, should such a systematic error be evident.
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Such may be worth noting, should you have only offered a square to the knuckle face, (without the extrusion attached)
Likely wishful thinking, but worth a shot.
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All the best
Tom
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Re: Christmas in November
Hi John,?
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Congrats on the new machine. I was in line to get the Kappa 450 x after initially ordering a Kappa 400. But due to pricing changes and complications in my time line I've actually ended up with a K740.
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Anyway, re your experience of intermittent functioning of the start button - I've discovered on mine that if I've opened the door to access the blade the saw will not start again until I switch the main power off and on again. It appears that opening the blade compartment initiates a full isolation of the saw that requires a full restart - a safety feature I guess (it might be in the manual but I haven't read it all yet). I've never experienced this on other panels saws that I've used at work including SCM's, Martins and Altendorfs.?
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Enjoy the amazing machine!?
Michael?
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Hi Ron,
I have a FB610 and had a look at my fence.? The set screws only seem to allow alignment of the fence to be parallel to the blade (or adjust the fence for drift).?
However, I believe that the leveling feet on the bottom may cause the angle you are seeing (circled in attached photo). If only one is higher than the other,? the fence might tilt.?
Apart from that I was wondering if you have another fence to check with your knuckle? My K945S saw has the same extrusion and slides on happily.? Check if maybe there is something wrong with the extrusion before you get a third knuckle.?
Hope any of this?helps.
Cornelius? Cyprus
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Re: Christmas in November
David, my wife calls me a ¡°gadget guy¡± because I love gadgets and gizmos. I will be happy to share experiences with this system as I figure it out.
?
The PCS is ¡°only¡± $7,500, not $10,000, by the way.
?
The PCS is now working with my 300mm Tenryu and Amana blades, with no issues or hiccups. ?When the technician and I tried a Tenryu yesterday the system would not give us a signal that it worked, but apparently that was because the PCS was not set up correctly and not because the blade was not compatible.
?
The only issue I am still trying to resolve is an intermittent failure to start. I have not identified the conditions that cause it, but the saw simply does not respond to the ¡°start¡± button. Turning the main power switch off and on, which re-boots the computer, gets me going again. I have a call in to the technician, as that is not acceptable behavior.
?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Re: Fitting Aigner fence to F900z
You may need different backing plates. I have Aigner fence plates ordered with my 2009 KF700SP and I had to get different backing plates to fit the plates to a 2017 700 series shaper.
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Fitting Aigner fence to F900z
Well, this should be easy. REALLY easy. Release the 230 hood clamps, slide old fences off, slide on new fences, smile and get back to work.?
Wrong.?
I can get the fences to the point of sitting flat on the table and flush to the mounting wings of the guard, but only at the remove/replace point, where it is oversized to accept that plunger/clamp disc. When sliding past to lock into proper position, it won't allow me to slide past that enlarged opening. With a bit more force, it simply ramps up onto the shoulder of the plunger/clamp. The evidence is clear, as the paint is peeling on the back steel plate the clamp grips where this is riding on that stepped portion of the plunger/clamp.?
End result? Fence hangs above the shaper table, teetering about 4-6mm off the table.?
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Tried flipping the back plates, as they're easily removed/replaced. Cannot do this, as it limits the fence opening around the hood. Factory orientation was correct.?
Tried working the set-screw/nut combination on the back side of the clamp plunger from inside the fence. I've managed to get the right side to go on, but the left just won't do it. I do not feel this is the right method of getting a fit, as what's happening is the plate is only being gripped by about .5mm of that stepped portion of the plunger clamp. That is not a very secure setup.? Or is that just how these fit the Felders?
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Tempted to file that stepped portion down, just a pinch for clearance, but I consider that an absolute last resort.?
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Seems I could be missing something rather simple, and hoping someone else has some suggestions.
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Thanks,?
Jeff
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Re: Need planer blades-Can you help?
Analog Felder DIO all but one steel case $55 each shipping included contact off the fog Mac,,?  Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 11, 2024, at 1:29?PM, mac campshure <mac512002@...> wrote:
? ? I have 10 high speed steel 310 6-2 ?hole 310 Older style 4 - carbon steel all in nice shape looks like 1 edge new ?2 hole new? 130.00 takes all shipping us included in USA Pay Pal only? Contact off fog Mac
Designing and building for 50 years On Dec 11, 2024, at 8:57?AM, David Cameron via groups.io <woodtales@...> wrote:
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Re: Need planer blades-Can you help?
? I have 10 high speed steel 310 6-2 ?hole 310 Older style 4 - carbon steel all in nice shape looks like 1 edge new ?2 hole new? 130.00 takes all shipping us included in USA Pay Pal only? Contact off fog Mac
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 11, 2024, at 8:57?AM, David Cameron via groups.io <woodtales@...> wrote:
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Re: Felder FB610 Fence Support problems
Post some picture of this knuckle. I don't know where the four set screws you mention are located, but on my rip fence for the saw which has a similar casting, you can adjust two set screws on the face that the Aluminum section rides against to adjust for 90 degrees.
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Wednesday, December 11, 2024 at 10:44:20 AM MST, Ron Pomeroy via groups.io <rpomeroy@...> wrote:
The milled surfaces that the fence gets fixed to is not milled square relative to the surface that rests on the flat bar. I contend that this is the critical relationship that is not being maintained in the manufacturing process - at least not on all cases.?
i¡¯m open to being proved wrong - but I have yet to hear an alternative explanation.
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Another mystery: There are 4 set screws in the knuckle. At first blush they would appear to be there to adjust toe-out on the fence. But more you study the placement of the screws and how securing the fence works - the more you come to the conclusion the design is fundamentally flawed. I¡¯m definitely revisiting the assembly diagram as this one is a real head-scratcher.?
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Ron Pomeroy
rodsheridan
Jason Holtz
imran
Tom Trees
Joe Jensen