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Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Brent,
What is the difference between the following two 125x55 whitehill cutter heads? Based on the photos, they look the same to me.
James
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the 4mm thick, 55mm knives they call the "B" series knives.
?
The "C"? series are also 55mm but are 6mm thick and not suitable for the euroblocks.
?
B
|
Patrick, My favorite drilling and mortising is? |
Favorite sq chisel mortiser was a FAy and Egan at and simi auto lightning series with manual ability but only good for punching one sq hole .
Great Britain or Rapid for chain mortiser ?and?
Centauro for oscillating chisel. have know?
Do love festo 500 and WANT 700 Dominos and Gota love Lamilo top .
Felder FD 250 is very versatile tool for manual machine made lots of mortises with those . Hate bird mouth bits.
fasted mortise CHAIN!!
Mac,,,
Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 7, 2024, at 9:13?PM, Patrick Kane via groups.io <pwk5017@...> wrote:
?
Nice, Andy, I¡¯ve seen a few of his videos. He has a decent bit of kit. His projects are eclectic.?
That square mortise demo looked like a fair amount of work. An upper body workout. Sort of what I want to avoid, and the reason I bought the Greenlee. I had a floor standing Powermatic mortiser a few years ago and operating it was a little arduous. I would not want to operate that type of machine for 30-60 mins straight. Maybe the Felder isn¡¯t as much work as it looked? Atleast it is both levers that are lower down so it engages more larger muscle groups than the vertical arm lever of most vertical mortisers.?
Patrick
In this video the user demonstrates many aspects of this unit. Including square (rectangular) mortises.?
Hijacking this thread slightly, but I¡¯m also curious in the horizontal mortiser discussion. I picked up a larger automatic hollow chisel mortiser a couple weeks ago, and haven¡¯t used it yet, but I¡¯m curious if I made the right choice. One concern I have is the automatic mortisers almost have to use vintage tooling¡ªgreenlee, Forrest city, etc¡ª-that will eventually become hard/impossible to source. Second, it¡¯s my understanding the greenlee 227 and wysong miles 284 eat up tooling less than 1/2¡±. Just too aggressive for smaller tooling. Lastly, I¡¯m in a basement and space is a little tight. The greenlee takes up a big footprint compared to a euro horizontal mortiser.?
Is there a video or instructional set of photos for the Felder unit making square holes? I see the option on the website, but I am not following how that accessory actually works.?
Is the hollow chisel mortiser antiquated and obsolete? Will a decent slot mortiser like a griggio etc. outperform the greenlee 227? Is setup easy and fast on a horizontal mortiser??
Patrick?
On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 9:54?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana=
[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I can confirm that you can add?chisel mortising and dowel boring because I did that on my 2nd hand FD250. It is 2011, 2.2KW, 3Ph single speed machine so not sure if things have changed over the years.
Surprisingly, I received a set of pictures from the Felder technician (not official Felder documentation) that made the install easy. It had been a few yrs now but don¡¯t recall any issues.
?
Hi Andy,?
?
Yes, the mechanical DRO I mentioned is the counter for the system hand wheel. Once I got it calibrated it's been very precise.?
?
For single phase, yes there is a variable speed option. I try to go three phase whenever possible, and am skeptical about variable speed anything, but yes there is definitely an option.?
?
As David Best points out, the MultiRouter is a great machine for furniture work, but you're limited to smaller pieces (the motor is fixed, table moves), and you're limited to 1/2" and smaller shank tooling, whereas the FD-250 (and other horizontal mortisers) will accept up to 20mm diameter shanks.?
?
As Joe points out, the Rangate dowel bits are awesome. Carbide-tipped and oversized by 0.1mm, they are a perfect complement to their Rot-Resist dowels. Now that I've calibrated the 16mm dowel boring template to the cast iron table, it's a pretty simple task to use the cast iron block and the dowel bar to bore properly indexed dowel holes, so assembly is a breeze.?
?
It's important to note that the "chisel mortising" and "dowel boring" options are ostensibly "Factory-only" options. I've been told that you can order the parts after the fact, but I wouldn't want to spend the time trying to retrofit them. My thought process was that I was better off just ordering a fully tricked-out machine, that way I wouldn't find myself wanting for features at a later time, and this way the machine would have broader appeal if/when I were to eventually sell it.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Just to be clear, I'm referring to the 4mm thick, 55mm knives they call the "B" series knives.
?
The "C"? series are also 55mm but are 6mm thick and not suitable for the euroblocks.
?
B
|
Nice, Andy, I¡¯ve seen a few of his videos. He has a decent bit of kit. His projects are eclectic.?
That square mortise demo looked like a fair amount of work. An upper body workout. Sort of what I want to avoid, and the reason I bought the Greenlee. I had a floor standing Powermatic mortiser a few years ago and operating it was a little arduous. I would not want to operate that type of machine for 30-60 mins straight. Maybe the Felder isn¡¯t as much work as it looked? Atleast it is both levers that are lower down so it engages more larger muscle groups than the vertical arm lever of most vertical mortisers.?
Patrick
In this video the user demonstrates many aspects of this unit. Including square (rectangular) mortises.?
Hijacking this thread slightly, but I¡¯m also curious in the horizontal mortiser discussion. I picked up a larger automatic hollow chisel mortiser a couple weeks ago, and haven¡¯t used it yet, but I¡¯m curious if I made the right choice. One concern I have is the automatic mortisers almost have to use vintage tooling¡ªgreenlee, Forrest city, etc¡ª-that will eventually become hard/impossible to source. Second, it¡¯s my understanding the greenlee 227 and wysong miles 284 eat up tooling less than 1/2¡±. Just too aggressive for smaller tooling. Lastly, I¡¯m in a basement and space is a little tight. The greenlee takes up a big footprint compared to a euro horizontal mortiser.?
Is there a video or instructional set of photos for the Felder unit making square holes? I see the option on the website, but I am not following how that accessory actually works.?
Is the hollow chisel mortiser antiquated and obsolete? Will a decent slot mortiser like a griggio etc. outperform the greenlee 227? Is setup easy and fast on a horizontal mortiser??
Patrick? On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 9:54?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Tom,
I can confirm that you can add?chisel mortising and dowel boring because I did that on my 2nd hand FD250. It is 2011, 2.2KW, 3Ph single speed machine so not sure if things have changed over the years.
Surprisingly, I received a set of pictures from the Felder technician (not official Felder documentation) that made the install easy. It had been a few yrs now but don¡¯t recall any issues.
? Hi Andy,?
?
Yes, the mechanical DRO I mentioned is the counter for the system hand wheel. Once I got it calibrated it's been very precise.?
?
For single phase, yes there is a variable speed option. I try to go three phase whenever possible, and am skeptical about variable speed anything, but yes there is definitely an option.?
?
As David Best points out, the MultiRouter is a great machine for furniture work, but you're limited to smaller pieces (the motor is fixed, table moves), and you're limited to 1/2" and smaller shank tooling, whereas the FD-250 (and other horizontal mortisers) will accept up to 20mm diameter shanks.?
?
As Joe points out, the Rangate dowel bits are awesome. Carbide-tipped and oversized by 0.1mm, they are a perfect complement to their Rot-Resist dowels. Now that I've calibrated the 16mm dowel boring template to the cast iron table, it's a pretty simple task to use the cast iron block and the dowel bar to bore properly indexed dowel holes, so assembly is a breeze.?
?
It's important to note that the "chisel mortising" and "dowel boring" options are ostensibly "Factory-only" options. I've been told that you can order the parts after the fact, but I wouldn't want to spend the time trying to retrofit them. My thought process was that I was better off just ordering a fully tricked-out machine, that way I wouldn't find myself wanting for features at a later time, and this way the machine would have broader appeal if/when I were to eventually sell it.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
?
What's neat about the 55mm knives is you can often fit both cope and stick on one set of knives for cost savings.??
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Imran, my last delivery of 4 sets of knives and limiters was 2 days to arrive from date of shipping and $80usd.? They don't ship regular mail anymore, only courier as there were too many problems.
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Imran,
I think they do not say you can use 50 or 55 mm knives on 40 cutter heads because of the liability issue, because the knives are not fully backed by the cutter head.
James
Imran,
Felder does not make the cutter head. They just rebranded the cutter head from other German or Swiss companies.
I am 100% sure the 50mm cutter can be used in the 40 mm cutter head because they have the same pin patterns.
I have the following 50 mm cutter head accepting both 40mm and 50mm knives. And will accept whitehill's 55mm knives too.
James On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 8:29?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: This is very interesting. I kicked myself for buying Felder 40 mm block because I learned later that Felder 50 mm block can accommodate both 40 mm and 50 mm knives. The website still says, ¡°Universal milling cutter made of steel for 40 mm and 50 mm profile knives¡±
Felder site does not say 50 mm knives can¡¯t be used in 40 mm block, rather it says ¡°suitable for 40 mm knives¡±. Somehow I made the conclusion that I can¡¯t use 50 mm knives in my 40 mm block.
|
I understand that I am talking about 50 mm not 55 mm, maybe that makes a difference.
Any how, good to know that I can use 55 mm knives from Whitehill in my 40 mm Felder block and now wonder if it will also take Felder 50 mm knives.
?
Yes, now I understand why 40mm euro?knives?do not work on whitehill's 125 x 55 cutter heads.
James
The pin spacing and diameter are the same, and the knife will?technically fit in the heads, but too much is buried inside the head.? Those 40mm "three holers" are designed for the smaller "euroblocks".
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Imran,
Felder does not make the cutter head. They just rebranded the cutter head from other German or Swiss companies.
I am 100% sure the 50mm cutter can be used in the 40 mm cutter head because they have the same pin patterns.
I have the following 50 mm cutter head accepting both 40mm and 50mm knives. And will accept whitehill's 55mm knives too.
James
On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 8:29?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: This is very interesting. I kicked myself for buying Felder 40 mm block because I learned later that Felder 50 mm block can accommodate both 40 mm and 50 mm knives. The website still says, ¡°Universal milling cutter made of steel for 40 mm and 50 mm profile knives¡±
Felder site does not say 50 mm knives can¡¯t be used in 40 mm block, rather it says ¡°suitable for 40 mm knives¡±. Somehow I made the conclusion that I can¡¯t use 50 mm knives in my 40 mm block.
|
I understand that I am talking about 50 mm not 55 mm, maybe that makes a difference.
Any how, good to know that I can use 55 mm knives from Whitehill in my 40 mm Felder block and now wonder if it will also take Felder 50 mm knives.
?
Yes, now I understand why 40mm euro?knives?do not work on whitehill's 125 x 55 cutter heads.
James
The pin spacing and diameter are the same, and the knife will?technically fit in the heads, but too much is buried inside the head.? Those 40mm "three holers" are designed for the smaller "euroblocks".
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
James,
I have ordered at least 2 times from Scott and Sargent and the shipping was around USD 75. On par with your domestic Felder shipping charge ?
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On Dec 7, 2024, at 8:28?PM, James Zhu via groups.io <james.zhu2@...> wrote: ? Imran,
I understand your concern. Hopefully?the shipping fees?from?Whitehill are not as outrageous as Felder's.?
I was told by Felder that the shipping fee is C$75 for the capacitor for my bandsaw from Mississauga to my home, 90 KM away.
James On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 8:13?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Brent. Looks like I will be ordering from UK, if I use this link. ? Yes, that's correct.? You can order through here, this is the tongue and groove section of their web site:
?
You will have to set up a free account your first time, and then it's all pretty seamless.??
?
Brent
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
This is very interesting. I kicked myself for buying Felder 40 mm block because I learned later that Felder 50 mm block can accommodate both 40 mm and 50 mm knives. The website still says, ¡°Universal milling cutter made of steel for 40 mm and 50 mm profile knives¡±
Felder site does not say 50 mm knives can¡¯t be used in 40 mm block, rather it says ¡°suitable for 40 mm knives¡±. Somehow I made the conclusion that I can¡¯t use 50 mm knives in my 40 mm block.
|
I understand that I am talking about 50 mm not 55 mm, maybe that makes a difference.
Any how, good to know that I can use 55 mm knives from Whitehill in my 40 mm Felder block and now wonder if it will also take Felder 50 mm knives.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2024, at 8:05?PM, James Zhu via groups.io <james.zhu2@...> wrote:
?
Yes, now I understand why 40mm euro?knives?do not work on whitehill's 125 x 55 cutter heads.
James
The pin spacing and diameter are the same, and the knife will?technically fit in the heads, but too much is buried inside the head.? Those 40mm "three holers" are designed for the smaller "euroblocks".
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Imran,
I understand your concern. Hopefully?the shipping fees?from?Whitehill are not as outrageous as Felder's.?
I was told by Felder that the shipping fee is C$75 for the capacitor for my bandsaw from Mississauga to my home, 90 KM away.
James
On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 8:13?PM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Brent. Looks like I will be ordering from UK, if I use this link. ? Yes, that's correct.? You can order through here, this is the tongue and groove section of their web site:
?
You will have to set up a free account your first time, and then it's all pretty seamless.??
?
Brent
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Thanks Brent. Looks like I will be ordering from UK, if I use this link.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 7, 2024, at 6:53?PM, Brent via groups.io <dovetailtimber@...> wrote: ? Yes, that's correct.? You can order through here, this is the tongue and groove section of their web site:
?
You will have to set up a free account your first time, and then it's all pretty seamless.??
?
Brent
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Yes, now I understand why 40mm euro?knives?do not work on whitehill's 125 x 55 cutter heads.
James
The pin spacing and diameter are the same, and the knife will?technically fit in the heads, but too much is buried inside the head.? Those 40mm "three holers" are designed for the smaller "euroblocks".
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Thanks for the confirmation. This could be a good selling point for whitehill's 55 mm knives. Whitehill never mentioned that on their?website
James
?
That's correct, the 55mm knives will work in the Euroblocks (that term is technically reserved for the 40mm limiter blocks) as well as other blocks including the 125x55 limiter/combi heads but the 40mm "euroknives"? knives will not work in the 125x55 blocks as the projection is typically insufficient.
?
B
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
The pin spacing and diameter are the same, and the knife will?technically fit in the heads, but too much is buried inside the head.? Those 40mm "three holers" are designed for the smaller "euroblocks".
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
?
That's correct, the 55mm knives will work in the Euroblocks (that term is technically reserved for the 40mm limiter blocks) as well as other blocks including the 125x55 limiter/combi heads but the 40mm "euroknives"? knives will not work in the 125x55 blocks as the projection is typically insufficient.
?
B
|
Re: Source for custom knives for 40 mm Felder safety cutter
Brent,
Are you saying whitehill's 55mm knives can be used on the cutter head for the standard 40mm Euro knives? Like this one?
Just want to clalifty, because you said the standard 40mm Euro knives does not work on whitehill's 125 x 55 mm cutter head? in the following video?
James
?
?
You can run whitehill's 55mm knives in those heads too.? Hundreds of profile options in M2 steel and somehow delivered to my place in southern Ontatio in 2-3 days fairly often if in stock.??
|
In this video the user demonstrates many aspects of this unit. Including square (rectangular) mortises.?
Hijacking this thread slightly, but I¡¯m also curious in the horizontal mortiser discussion. I picked up a larger automatic hollow chisel mortiser a couple weeks ago, and haven¡¯t used it yet, but I¡¯m curious if I made the right choice. One concern I have is the automatic mortisers almost have to use vintage tooling¡ªgreenlee, Forrest city, etc¡ª-that will eventually become hard/impossible to source. Second, it¡¯s my understanding the greenlee 227 and wysong miles 284 eat up tooling less than 1/2¡±. Just too aggressive for smaller tooling. Lastly, I¡¯m in a basement and space is a little tight. The greenlee takes up a big footprint compared to a euro horizontal mortiser.?
Is there a video or instructional set of photos for the Felder unit making square holes? I see the option on the website, but I am not following how that accessory actually works.?
Is the hollow chisel mortiser antiquated and obsolete? Will a decent slot mortiser like a griggio etc. outperform the greenlee 227? Is setup easy and fast on a horizontal mortiser??
Patrick? On Thu, Dec 5, 2024 at 9:54?AM imranindiana via <imranindiana= [email protected]> wrote: Hi Tom,
I can confirm that you can add?chisel mortising and dowel boring because I did that on my 2nd hand FD250. It is 2011, 2.2KW, 3Ph single speed machine so not sure if things have changed over the years.
Surprisingly, I received a set of pictures from the Felder technician (not official Felder documentation) that made the install easy. It had been a few yrs now but don¡¯t recall any issues.
? Hi Andy,?
?
Yes, the mechanical DRO I mentioned is the counter for the system hand wheel. Once I got it calibrated it's been very precise.?
?
For single phase, yes there is a variable speed option. I try to go three phase whenever possible, and am skeptical about variable speed anything, but yes there is definitely an option.?
?
As David Best points out, the MultiRouter is a great machine for furniture work, but you're limited to smaller pieces (the motor is fixed, table moves), and you're limited to 1/2" and smaller shank tooling, whereas the FD-250 (and other horizontal mortisers) will accept up to 20mm diameter shanks.?
?
As Joe points out, the Rangate dowel bits are awesome. Carbide-tipped and oversized by 0.1mm, they are a perfect complement to their Rot-Resist dowels. Now that I've calibrated the 16mm dowel boring template to the cast iron table, it's a pretty simple task to use the cast iron block and the dowel bar to bore properly indexed dowel holes, so assembly is a breeze.?
?
It's important to note that the "chisel mortising" and "dowel boring" options are ostensibly "Factory-only" options. I've been told that you can order the parts after the fact, but I wouldn't want to spend the time trying to retrofit them. My thought process was that I was better off just ordering a fully tricked-out machine, that way I wouldn't find myself wanting for features at a later time, and this way the machine would have broader appeal if/when I were to eventually sell it.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
|
Thanks for that feedback, Patrick.
?
I used my PM for my shop doors, and for workbench legs. It is hard to handle large pieces on the vertical machine, and hard to get the mortices square and located consistently. It works, but I mix up a thick filled epoxy to account for irregularities in the mortices.
?
This is somewhat off-topic, of course. I am just whining about one my less satisfactory purchases.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
Hey John,
I have the domino 700, which is a great tool, but the 14mm tenon is still a little dainty for larger projects. For example, I just did an exterior door for my parents house, and I used the domino for the joinery. It¡¯s fine, and I¡¯m sure 4+ 14x75 dominos per joint is strong enough plus the haunch, but I would have done longer and thicker tenons if I had a mortiser. Similarly, the domino isn¡¯t too helpful for through joinery. However, in every other M&T instance, I think the domino is incredible. I use it constantly for large glue up alignment. Finished a 12/4 walnut island for someone two weeks ago and the domino made perfect work of the final glue up.?
Patrick
On Sat, Dec 7, 2024 at 7:18?PM John Hinman via <jhinman1911= [email protected]> wrote: I have watched video of the Felder 250, and it seems like quite a useful mortiser. I have a Powermatic vertical mortiser, and it is quite limited. Not well built, either.
?
I¡¯ve tried a Domino, and think I¡¯d choose that over either my Powermatic or the Felder. I do not produce things commercially, and understand that a commercial facility doing production runs may have different needs.
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
imran