Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Commodity carriers such as State Farm, Geico, Progressive, are pretty rigid and formula driven. ?Not surprising that they are unprepared to issue a rider that would cover things like machinery transport. ?The higher-end carriers like Chubb, Ace, Travelers are more expensive for sure, but they are accustomed to such requests, and offer broader coverages in general when faced with some kind of catastrophic loss. ?I have several friends who suffered major losses in the fires in California, and the difference in settlement times and payout litigation among various carriers has been eye opening. ?IMO, a reputable independent agent is invaluable in navigating carrier choice and opening your eyes to the cost/benefit tradeoffs. ?Just my two cents - no affiliation. ?
As for rigging costs, they generally work on a fixed rate for X number of men, a truck and a forklift, with a minimum number of hours. ?My Kappa 400 xMotion arrived on an 8x8 foot pallet, and could not be delivered by the local carriers. ?This was all a surprize at the time since Felder had shipped it specifying ¡°lift gate¡± delivery. ?I had no choice but to hire a rigging company to pick up the machine at the local freight terminal, deliver it to my home, transport it into my basement and take away all the shipping debris. ?That was in 2016 and the cost was about $1,800. ?
David Best
DBestWorkshop@...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidpbest/collections/
https://www.youtube.com/@David_Best
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On Dec 9, 2022, at 10:38 AM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
Aaron,
That is a shame. Both of my examples were from the time we were with Liberty Mutual. LB almost doubled our homeowners so we switched to State Farm last year ? On Dec 9, 2022, at 1:07 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?I have talked in depth with my own insurance company (State Farm) as well as my friend's insurance company.? The problem here is that the incident would be described as a "covered peril" during a moving vehicle incident.? State Farm does not have any coverage for this under my current policy.? Unfortunately, they do not have any type of additional insurance offering for this type of coverage that I could buy.? If a vehicle crashes into us and it is not a "hit-and-run", then I could pursue coverage from the other driver as a liability.? However, if I/we crash into something or if the machinery shifts and damage occurs from this, then there is no coverage.? If something happens during transit, I'm basically flushing $16k down the toilet.
I spoke briefly with Felder and they only offer truck freight, but it means I need a forklift at my destination to lift it off the truck.? They won't do lift-gate for this item because it's too big/heavy.? A rigging company may have a flatbed/fork combination but it's likely going to be around $2,000 (that was what I was told by Felder).
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Re: Need advice re door construction
Thanks so much for all the pictures. Those are really helpful. We have a few inches of snow here today so I¡¯m spending the day experimenting. I think you¡¯ve all saved me from making a big error.
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If you want to go triple use aluminium clad, two on the timber one on the aluminium.? With 3 seals. I've had clients in flood areas, outside water rose up 300mm on the? doors, and nothing came in. Kindest regards?
Jonathan Samways?
?
Makes perfect sense, you charge more for a triple ? ?Sorry to confuse its a double that I¡¯ve always called a triple I¡¯m bad!? Designing and building for 50 years ?Bird, I¡¯m confused also. In my mind I was thinking triple but when I see a picture I believe it would be considered double?
This is a sample we made for a Alpine attendee last year. He wanted to build a 4¡± thick front door. We made these mock-ups using 92mm thick scantlings. The one on the right was made to use a Tectus type hinge but also what the meeting stiles might look like. We did this using the Multiuse cutter with a 4mm groover for the gasket. It was easy with only two passages on the shaper. To avoid buying dedicated tools.
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
I get it that many may have a forklift...but a dumpster? Dave Davies
On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 1:12 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
I have three.? I'm compensating.? Dave
and a forklift to empty?that bin into a dumpster
Dave Davies
On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 1:08 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
That is a good deal if you have the amps and the need.? Dave
I spoke with Preston Machinery and they provided a good price on the Nederman out of the gate. Here is a very good deal on Nederman 10hp unit with the dust bin that alone costs $4k and they are asking $4k for the whole unit. No affiliation to the seller.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
I have three.? I'm compensating.? Dave
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and a forklift to empty?that bin into a dumpster
Dave Davies
On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 1:08 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
That is a good deal if you have the amps and the need.? Dave
I spoke with Preston Machinery and they provided a good price on the Nederman out of the gate. Here is a very good deal on Nederman 10hp unit with the dust bin that alone costs $4k and they are asking $4k for the whole unit. No affiliation to the seller.
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
--
Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
and a forklift to empty?that bin into a dumpster Dave Davies
On Fri, Dec 9, 2022 at 1:08 PM David Kumm < davekumm@...> wrote:
That is a good deal if you have the amps and the need.? Dave
I spoke with Preston Machinery and they provided a good price on the Nederman out of the gate. Here is a very good deal on Nederman 10hp unit with the dust bin that alone costs $4k and they are asking $4k for the whole unit. No affiliation to the seller. 
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
That is a good deal if you have the amps and the need.? Dave
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I spoke with Preston Machinery and they provided a good price on the Nederman out of the gate. Here is a very good deal on Nederman 10hp unit with the dust bin that alone costs $4k and they are asking $4k for the whole unit. No affiliation to the seller. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1086844058656642/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A1d8aad6e-918e-4c40-85bd-c87c81ade2da 
Jay Bowen
Cleveland
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Re: Suggested video - Thos. Moser of Maine
Cherry supply and quality is increasing, not vice versa.
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You don't often get email from tomruth@....
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Mark Thomas,?
?????? Yes, I'm with you about the marketing aspects and the mumbo jumbo. Years ago I visited Taylor Guitars outside of San Diego.? They have a great tour and I would say they are even more reliant on CNC technology with only the edgebanding around the outside
of the guitars done by a person with glue and masking tape. I have a Taylor guitar myself and I would say the craftsmanship is amazing.? So I guess the bottom line for me is that it's all about the quality, if it's there then you have a product that will last
and increase in value. I do however think the amount of fine lumber that Moser uses is a bit scary.? I can only think it contributes to the decline in the quality of cherry and other species over time, but that's a whole other subject.
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
I spoke with Preston Machinery and they provided a good price on the Nederman out of the gate. Here is a very good deal on Nederman 10hp unit with the dust bin that alone costs $4k and they are asking $4k for the whole unit. No affiliation to the seller. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1086844058656642/?hoisted=false&ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A1d8aad6e-918e-4c40-85bd-c87c81ade2da  Jay Bowen Cleveland
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
seems like a high price if new is $9,925
Dave Davies
Nederman "S-750" Dust collector
?David,
I will check them out. Thanks.
Joe
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Aaron,
That is a shame. Both of my examples were from the time we were with Liberty Mutual. LB almost doubled our homeowners so we switched to State Farm last year ?
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On Dec 9, 2022, at 1:07 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?I have talked in depth with my own insurance company (State Farm) as well as my friend's insurance company.? The problem here is that the incident would be described as a "covered peril" during a moving vehicle incident.? State Farm does not have any coverage for this under my current policy.? Unfortunately, they do not have any type of additional insurance offering for this type of coverage that I could buy.? If a vehicle crashes into us and it is not a "hit-and-run", then I could pursue coverage from the other driver as a liability.? However, if I/we crash into something or if the machinery shifts and damage occurs from this, then there is no coverage.? If something happens during transit, I'm basically flushing $16k down the toilet.
I spoke briefly with Felder and they only offer truck freight, but it means I need a forklift at my destination to lift it off the truck.? They won't do lift-gate for this item because it's too big/heavy.? A rigging company may have a flatbed/fork combination but it's likely going to be around $2,000 (that was what I was told by Felder).
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Interesting..., though, I'm reading this thread late in the discussion.
3 years ago, Felder shipped an AD951 (jointer/planer) and a K700S to my residence... to my garage. The freight company called me prior to the shipment, as I had specified to Felder that I did not have either a forklift or a loading dock - I needed both machines to be handled via lift gate and pallet jack. The freight company placed a surcharge on the fees, to provide a lift gate truck; when the machinery arrived, the driver off-loaded with motorized pallet jack (I gave him a $100 to place the equipment in the shop). My guess is the AD951 is much heavier than the K7000S, and the freight company did both.
I'm not sure that this helps...
Take Care.
Mike D.
On Friday, December 9, 2022 at 01:07:38 PM EST, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote:
I have talked in depth with my own insurance company (State Farm) as well as my friend's insurance company.? The problem here is that the incident would be described as a "covered peril" during a moving vehicle incident.? State Farm does not have any coverage for this under my current policy.? Unfortunately, they do not have any type of additional insurance offering for this type of coverage that I could buy.? If a vehicle crashes into us and it is not a "hit-and-run", then I could pursue coverage from the other driver as a liability.? However, if I/we crash into something or if the machinery shifts and damage occurs from this, then there is no coverage.? If something happens during transit, I'm basically flushing $16k down the toilet.
I spoke briefly with Felder and they only offer truck freight, but it means I need a forklift at my destination to lift it off the truck.? They won't do lift-gate for this item because it's too big/heavy.? A rigging company may have a flatbed/fork combination but it's likely going to be around $2,000 (that was what I was told by Felder).
-- Mike D. Annapolis, MD AD951; K700S; N4400
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
I have talked in depth with my own insurance company (State Farm) as well as my friend's insurance company.? The problem here is that the incident would be described as a "covered peril" during a moving vehicle incident.? State Farm does not have any coverage for this under my current policy.? Unfortunately, they do not have any type of additional insurance offering for this type of coverage that I could buy.? If a vehicle crashes into us and it is not a "hit-and-run", then I could pursue coverage from the other driver as a liability.? However, if I/we crash into something or if the machinery shifts and damage occurs from this, then there is no coverage.? If something happens during transit, I'm basically flushing $16k down the toilet.
I spoke briefly with Felder and they only offer truck freight, but it means I need a forklift at my destination to lift it off the truck.? They won't do lift-gate for this item because it's too big/heavy.? A rigging company may have a flatbed/fork combination but it's likely going to be around $2,000 (that was what I was told by Felder).
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Re: Suggested video - Thos. Moser of Maine
Thomas Moser has a ¡°Customer in Residence¡± program, which I
have attended twice. The customer picks out a couple of pieces of standard
catalog furniture and spends a week in their shop, working alongside / under the
guidance of the craftspeople. The customer ¡°builds¡± those items, which are
later shipped to the customer ¨C and by the by, shipped by an exclusive carrier
who only carries Moser items across the country and with very impressive care.
Oddly, the most valuable things I have learned there were
building jigs and tips and tricks on how to correct mistakes! They take even
novices, who aren¡¯t allowed near the machines ¨C but when the craftspeople are
working with someone who has experience, you¡¯re allowed to work with everything
but the CNC, and they share a lot of knowledge and stories. (There are a couple
of CNC specialists who only run the CNC.) But as Joe said, overall, it¡¯s
remarkably low- tech. I finished my pieces early and spent the rest of the time
looking over the shoulder of the machinery true- up guy, who loved a bit of
attention.
RE the role of CNC in ¡°crafted¡± furniture, IMHO it¡¯s just
another tool ¨C sensors and microprocessors added to power to enable newer
levels of results. My first project, in 1974, was a Queen-sized oak bed made
with interlocking slats, all hand- sawn and hand- planed. That much hand- planning
from rough wood forced me to hone my sharpening skills, as it were, but I will gladly
never do so much hand work again.
The pic is 1/3 of Moser¡¯s Cumberland Stool seat, totally
done on the CNC. The slots take splines, and the hole for the leg is precisely
angled; the three pieces fit together like magic. If I were producing these, I
would probably invest in CNC, too. The result is beautiful and incredibly
strong, and I think that the soul of this thing is in its design. I don¡¯t think
there would be many customers for the price that only hand labor would require,
even though the slight variances from piece to piece would be attractive. Sadly,
we¡¯ve all had customers who want uniformity and consider variations as a ¡°defect.¡±
Takes all kinds, I guess.
They
discard an incredible amount of nice wood. Perhaps partly because the workers
are allowed to take home the scrap? The cherry topping the ice cream, I guess,
nice work perk.
Mark Thomas,?
?????? Yes, I'm with you about the marketing aspects and the mumbo jumbo. Years ago I visited Taylor Guitars outside of San Diego.? They have a great tour and I would say they are even more reliant on CNC technology with only the edgebanding around the outside of the guitars done by a person with glue and masking tape. I have a Taylor guitar myself and I would say the craftsmanship is amazing.? So I guess the bottom line for me is that it's all about the quality, if it's there then you have a product that will last and increase in value. I do however think the amount of fine lumber that Moser uses is a bit scary.? I can only think it contributes to the decline in the quality of cherry and other species over time, but that's a whole other subject.
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Aaron,
Check with your auto insurance. In my case, items on the rented trailer were covered.
On another occasion, I borrowed a longer trailer from my friend and we were able to add it to our policy to ensure if I had an accident, it would be covered. It was cheap.
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On Dec 9, 2022, at 12:06 PM, Aaron Inami <ainami@...> wrote: ?KRP,
It sounds like Felder arranged for the Flatbed / Forklift delivery.? Can you tell me what the cost was for this?? I'm trying to figure out how to transport a K700S for about 90 miles and the best recommendation I have received is to rent a drop-deck trailer.? At this point, the machine would not be insured during transit (which makes it somewhat of a $$$ risk).
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Kamal
Looks like you have a well considered and complete complement of machinery.? Congratulations.
I met and was chatting with a professional (furniture maker) yesterday at my local specialty lumberyard.? He was telling me about a stint he did in Germany early in his career and commented on how it was common (and realistic) to start with a full shop of fine woodworking tools (and matching loan) after apprenticing there.? We found ourselves comparing (at least our) North American paths of iterating and gradually arriving at something similar later in our careers.? I never formally schooled (or even apprenticed) in the craft and instead sorta evolved to what I do today and had neither the means nor the vision to assemble a perfect setup early in my career.? While it didn't come up in this conversation, I do commonly hear "formal instruction" as advice from accomplished woodworkers.? I recently met with a young aspiring furniture maker and gave him the advice of buying a shop (building) early in one's career (with enough space to either share or, better, to rent a portion to offset costs, collaborate, share machinery and ultimately have an asset at the end of one's professional career).? That and, asap, come up with a dining chair design (easily repeatable and to adapt to stools, sitting chairs) to drive sales of tables and create a predictable income (orders typically are multiple chairs).? I've done neither but wish I had.
All of which to say I'm curious what the professionals among us might suggest to that same newcomer and, for the amateurs, what might be suggested to someone intrigued by the pastime.? I'm both btw, I do this for a living but am also preparing for a retirement with the ambition of building by hand (that is with as little use of electricity as possible).? FWIW, while maybe in some future generation there'll be an heir apparent but my children don't seem likely candidates.
Again, bravo.? You've got a good looking bit of kit.
Mike ??
Greetings all...been a while since I have posted but between a myriad of items during the past year (moving out of a house and into a new home, very extensive remodel of that new home done mostly by me, and to top it all off an unexpected upper back surgery that knocked me out of commission / doing any physical work for the better part of the past 6 months) I have been fairly sidetracked and not able to focus at all on the new equipment still sitting on pallets in the garage/new shop.?
I ordered the following in April 2021 and took delivery in mid-May 2022 - the bandsaw caused significant delays by a few months - the other pieces were in Felder's DE warehouse a few months before but elected to have everything delivered at once.? The communication from Felder was frankly terrible throughout the entire process and exacerbated by my salesperson quitting somewhere in there.
?
AD741
F700Z
FB510
HS950
K700s
FAT300
I got lucky with having every piece delivered by a full flatbed truck with some type of fork lift (see attached videos and images) in spite of being told by Felder and the shipping terminal that the K700s would not be delivered and would require me to arrange pickup, of which I knew and was fully prepared to do so. When the equipment arrived at the terminal I received a call from them to arrange a delivery date and them wanting to know when the K700S would be picked up by me.? I told them to please allow me to a few days to arrange a rigging company and would get back to them quickly.? I called three equipment moving companies that I had been in previous contact with...only 1 of them got back to me and asked about weights and dimensions of which I provided.? He got back to me after a few days via email and requested a deposit so he could book that day about a week out.? ?Exactly an hour after that email the terminal called to let me know my delivery was loaded onto a truck and would be delivered the next day!? I asked if ALL the pieces were loaded ;) and the very kind lady on the phone said yes as the driver had a pickup to make after my delivery and needed to be driving a full 18 wheel flatbed with a forklift so he decided to just load everything including the K700S and the sliding arm.? So no equipment moving company expense ;)...the delivery driver was tipped very well as he had a long drive back and forth on our driveway on that forklift.
No issues with delivery and I inspected each crate thoroughly after cutting away the green outer wrapper - each pallet arrived in pristine condition, surprisingly...many thanks to all of you who suggested inspecting each pallet before accepting delivery.? Unpacking took a while with all of the screws and 2x4s used and that PITA yellow plastic that was am sure installed by someone out in Austria paid by each staple used.? BUT, had enough screws and 2x4s to build several temporary workbenches and plastic to cover things during painting and sanding ;).?
During the downtown time I read the manuals and am in touch with Dave to get my hands on the Survival Guide...planning on moving the equipment off the pallets after the Holidays.
Best,
KRP
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Aaron, you may have some insurance coverage from the tow vehicle policy. Your insurance agent might clarify that for you.?
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
K700S and A941
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
KRP,?
Looks like an exciting delivery! Congrats on all of the new machinery, I hope it serves you well.?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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Re: One dust collector to rule them all?
Nederman "S-750" Dust collector
https://machinerymax.com/Event/LotDetails/43251024
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On Dec 8, 2022, at 4:26 PM, Joe Calhoon via groups.io <joecalhoon@...> wrote: ?David,
I will check them out. Thanks.
Joe
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Re: Felder Delivery, Finally
Aaron,?
I had my KF700SP delivered via flatbed/forklift two years ago, but I suspect pricing would not be representative of today's environment. My upcoming shipment is too heavy/large for lift gate again, and this time Felder is telling me the flatbed/forklift option is not available, so it's looking like I'll have to go the dropdeck trailer path. Fortunately I'm ~20 miles from the terminal, so not too bad. If you end of going with a drogpdeck trailer, be sure to tell Felder that you need the pallets modified so they can be lifted from the skinny end, as drop-deck trailers cannot be side-loaded....?
--
Tom Gensmer
Heritage Home Renewals, LLC
Minneapolis, MN
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MachineryMax.Com - Jet "JMD-18PF" Milling / drilling machine
There has been a discussion on better milling options. Don¡¯t know this machine but it is suppose to have powered down feed.
Jet "JMD-18PF" Milling / drilling machine
https://machinerymax.com/Event/LotDetails/43259421
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David P. Best
imran
Tom Gensmer