Re: Bandsaws: Felder vs ACM
Interesting that the Summa appears to have the Xroll sliding table
Dave
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 2:40 PM David Kumm via Groups.Io <davekumm= [email protected]> wrote:
FB saws are not sourced from ACM.? The Felder 740 industrial line is ACM.? Dave
Someone recently made a comment that the Felder FBs were/are rebranded ACMs but not as good as the bandsaws directly from ACM.? So now I’m looking at the BS 740 and even the Summa 740 2” but have no idea how they compare to Felder in
quality much less price.? Obviously the Summa has got to be significantly more expensive.
Any general or specific feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gerald
-- Dave & Marie Davies
318-219-7868
|
Re: Bandsaws: Felder vs ACM
FB saws are not sourced from ACM.? The Felder 740 industrial line is ACM.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Someone recently made a comment that the Felder FBs were/are rebranded ACMs but not as good as the bandsaws directly from ACM.? So now I’m looking at the BS 740 and even the Summa 740 2” but have no idea how they compare to Felder in
quality much less price.? Obviously the Summa has got to be significantly more expensive.
Any general or specific feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gerald
|
Someone recently made a comment that the Felder FBs were/are rebranded ACMs but not as good as the bandsaws directly from ACM. So now I’m looking at the BS 740 and even the Summa 740 2” but have no idea how they compare to Felder in quality much less price. Obviously the Summa has got to be significantly more expensive.
Any general or specific feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Gerald
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Humm, been a while since I took mechanics and am in software development now so go figure.? Wouldn’t the definition below of strong be that it is strong and stiff and not just strong? Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:37 PM, mark thomas via Groups.Io <murkyd@...> wrote:
?In material science, generally:
Stiff — resists deformation
Strong — resists both deformation and failure
But I suspect everyone knows what "strong" meant in the context of a bandsaw.
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
In material science, generally:
Stiff — resists deformation
Strong — resists both deformation and failure
But I suspect everyone knows what "strong" meant in the context of a bandsaw.
|
Hi Sang,
Great, I am sure you will come up with a great plan.? Could using the ceiling as the support surface simplify the mounting issue?? I believe some have shown concepts that appear workable.
-Bob
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Oops, hit send... Strong would be more like how much it can bend before it will yield but stiffness is more like how much it will resist yielding/deformation to a load. Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:19 PM, Mark Kessler via Groups.Io <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? I think it’s stiffness we are looking for here. Regards, Mark On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:05 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 08:54 AM, "jmkserv@... wrote:
The hardest part is getting a strong column design with little flex.?
Strong is easy, it's strong and cheap that's harder ;-) The crown on my FB610 wheel works out to about 7" radius.
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
I think it’s stiffness we are looking for here. Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:05 PM, mark thomas <murkyd@...> wrote:
?On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 08:54 AM, "jmkserv@... wrote:
The hardest part is getting a strong column design with little flex.?
Strong is easy, it's strong and cheap that's harder ;-) The crown on my FB610 wheel works out to about 7" radius.
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 08:54 AM, "jmkserv@... wrote:
The hardest part is getting a strong column design with little flex.?
Strong is easy, it's strong and cheap that's harder ;-) The crown on my FB610 wheel works out to about 7" radius.
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
?Felder offers segmented infeed rollers on some models. I do not have my Dual51 manual so I cannot look up the spec (not sure if it exists) but I can feed boards with slight variation in thickness with steel serrated infeed roller.
I am not doing production and I usually process boards of similar thickness for a project.
So?as a hobby woodworker I am not?sure how much a segmented infeed roller costs and how reliable it is but likely I would not pay a lot for it.
Imran On Feb 20, 2020, at 9:34 PM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
? Thats what I had on my scm, miss that planer... Regards, Mark On Feb 20, 2020, at 11:23 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Here is a pic of segmented infeed roller?
<hof_gliedereinzugswalze_2014.jpg>
Imran
On Feb 20, 2020, at 8:51 PM, Justin Tocci <justin@...> wrote:
?I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
|
Mac I seem to remember you also documented parts of your build process or is that one of my delusional memories.
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 9:48 AM Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression < airtightclamps@...> wrote: Overhead saw guard? It really annoys when overhead saw guard moves so many years back I replaced the ?funky SCMI with my own design. I used the Felder saw hood and inside of the telescopic arm. This slides in and out on humw slide pads with one lever so it can move laterally as my saw moves laterally 6” . It also slides quickly out of the way for access and out of way for shaper fence. I can also quickly pull the whole arm out.? The saw guard hood has 4 quick release bolts to take off and put back on. The rest of the affair is based of a 6” tube steel post of set for cross cuts. The whole thing bolts together in a few sub assemblies. Pretty much all made from scrap bin. View from behind saw.
Mac,,, ? Designing and building for 47 years On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
? I will try to remember to post some photos of the older design tomorrow.? I had taken photos showing the droop and sent them to Felder some time ago.? I just no longer have them on my iPad.A.On Feb 19, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?Right, will double check tonight but mine definitely does not for at least 5-8” of swing. I can set the bottom of the clear polycarbonate to a hair above the top of the blade and can swing it past the blade without the guard touching the blade for example
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Alex noted that the drooping occurs when the arm is swung (I assume 90 degrees) out of the way.
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Well I would think it's a pretty good connection considering the upper end bandsaws were and maybe still are Italian. It would be nothing for? company like Felder to dissect one. Most of the parts in the units Laguna and Felder I've seen are pretty universal. The hardest part is getting a strong column design with little flex.??
With regards to crowning tires there are many references saying this was done to make up for sloppy setups. The bottom line is setup your band where the manufacturer designed your machine to run. Also take into consideration the type of band you are using. An 1 1/4" band with low tooth count and a wide kerf will need to be setup differently then 3/8" flat kerf or a 1/4" fine tooth. This is true whether the band is flat or crowned. I have yet to find a definitive answer on what a proper crown should be. I seen anything from being based on a 5" to 7" radius to a 12 angle degree. They also say there are varied references somewhere on the Old machinery groups site. Dave you might know more about that.? So far I haven't read here what the manual for the various Hammer / Felder machines actually says for blade setting.?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
-------- Original message -------- From: David Kumm <davekumm@...> Date: 2020-02-20 9:57 a.m. (GMT-05:00) Subject: Re: [FOG] FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
I think a disconnect here is an assumption that the FB series are copies of Italian machines.? Dave
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of mark thomas <murkyd@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 12:47 AM
To: Felder Owner Group <[email protected]>; habacomike@... <habacomike@...>
Cc: anil00@... <anil00@...>
Subject: Re: [FOG] FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
?
What's the definition of “flat” that people are using here?? My FB610 has a very obvious center ~.015" higher than edges.? What's the curvature of a typical crowned wheel??
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 8:20 PM habacomike via Groups.Io <habacomike= [email protected]> wrote:
European saws, of which the Felder saws are examples, have flat wheels and, as a result, are positioned with the teeth off of the front of the wheels.
On Feb 18, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Anil < anil00@...> wrote:
Thanks John, I actually spent a few hours reading many posts about the bandsaws (searched for variations of? "FB" and "610"), but do not remember specific discussion around the proper position on the wheel.? It's entirely possible I missed such a discussion;
if so, I'm sorry about adding to the group churn in that case.? Hopefully this thread will still be of use for a future searcher :-)
Anil
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Thats what I had on my scm, miss that planer... Regards, Mark
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Feb 20, 2020, at 11:23 AM, imranindiana via Groups.Io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Here is a pic of segmented infeed roller?
Imran
On Feb 20, 2020, at 8:51 PM, Justin Tocci <justin@...> wrote:
?I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 06:57 AM, David Kumm wrote:
I think a disconnect here is an assumption that the FB series are copies of Italian machines.??
OK, though the last poster said European saws, including Felder, have flat wheels.? I guess he's just mistaken.
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Here is a pic of segmented infeed roller?
Imran
On Feb 20, 2020, at 8:51 PM, Justin Tocci <justin@...> wrote:
?I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
I have never seen a segmented corrugated steel feed roller, but I suspect I would like it!
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
Justin, a planer with segmented chipbreakers ( PB ) will also have a segmented infeed roller.? Mine are either rubber or corrugated steel but the segments match the width of the chipbreakers and are spring loaded as well.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I am confused by this thread.
I have had a couple planers now, the segmented pressure beam only holds things down. If you want the ability to feed more than one board in any situation, you need the rubber feed roller. That is the only part that moves the wood through the planer. Non-rubber
rollers will not feed more than one piece of wood at the same time in most situations.
Sometimes you can just tape several pieces together to force it. Sometimes you can put one piece on the extreme left and another on the extreme right if they are close enough in dimension.?
I've even had uneven boards cock sideways just a bit due to the metal roller only grabbing the left or right of the board. This causes a small snipe in the middle of the pass.
My metal infeed roller is the bane of my existence and as soon as I can get a better machine I'm going to sell it at a terrible loss. For me, it is a feature that can't be understated.
|
Re: segmented pressure beam for AD 951?
I am confused by this thread.
I have had a couple planers now, the segmented pressure beam only holds things down. If you want the ability to feed more than one board in any situation, you need the rubber feed roller. That is the only part that moves the wood through the planer. Non-rubber rollers will not feed more than one piece of wood at the same time in most situations.
Sometimes you can just tape several pieces together to force it. Sometimes you can put one piece on the extreme left and another on the extreme right if they are close enough in dimension.?
I've even had uneven boards cock sideways just a bit due to the metal roller only grabbing the left or right of the board. This causes a small snipe in the middle of the pass.
My metal infeed roller is the bane of my existence and as soon as I can get a better machine I'm going to sell it at a terrible loss. For me, it is a feature that can't be understated.
|
I've seen Mac's guard and even more impressive in person.? Dave
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Overhead saw guard?
It really annoys when overhead saw guard moves so many years back I replaced the ?funky SCMI with my own design. I used the Felder saw hood and inside of the telescopic arm. This slides in and out on humw slide pads with one lever so it can move laterally
as my saw moves laterally 6” . It also slides quickly out of the way for access and out of way for shaper fence. I can also quickly pull the whole arm out. ?The saw guard hood has 4 quick release bolts to take off and put back on.
The rest of the affair is based of a 6” tube steel post of set for cross cuts. The whole thing bolts together in a few sub assemblies. Pretty much all made from scrap bin.
View from behind saw.
Mac,,,
?
Designing and building for 47 years
On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Alex Bowlds <aabj@...> wrote:
? I will try to remember to post some photos of the older design tomorrow. ?I had taken photos showing the droop and sent them to Felder some time ago. ?I just no longer have them on my iPad.
A.
On Feb 19, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Mark Kessler <mkessler10@...> wrote:
?Right, will double check tonight but mine definitely does not for at least 5-8” of swing. I can set the bottom of the clear polycarbonate to a hair above the top of the blade and can swing it past the blade without the guard touching
the blade for example
Regards, Mark
On Feb 19, 2020, at 1:53 PM, Sang Luu <sangluu@...> wrote:
?Alex noted that the drooping occurs when the arm is swung (I assume 90 degrees) out of the way.
|
Re: FB610 bandsaw blade position on the wheels: in the middle or near the edge?
Well I'm not going call the FB610 wheel flat as it has a crown. When I tried running blades with the teeth off the wheel I got drift and a terrible cut. When I follow Alex's method to create even tension across the blade I get no drift and a nice cut. If you wheels are flat and you get good cuts and no drift with the teeth hanging of the front then by all means that is the method you should use. As far as I concerned the tires are a consumable item and will eventually wear out and need replacement. Not real that had a task.
|
Gerald Yungling
imran
David