On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:28 AM, 'Jensen, Joe' joe.jensen@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I too use Ecogate and I’ve been very satisfied.? I started with a that base 8 gate system in 2005 and I’ve since upgraded to a greenbox 12.? I have mostly 6” gates and a few 5” gates.? The small plastic “Consumer” 4” gates are pretty much junk.

?

But...., are you willing to wait for the "usually ships within the 1-2 months" that ad is showing? Or, are you a prime member and clicked on the used-like new offer linked to that page.... $870.16. That's a deal, though I doubt it comes with warranty...

On Feb 7, 2017, at 7:28 AM, 'Jensen, Joe' joe.jensen@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I too use Ecogate and I’ve been very satisfied.? I started with a that base 8 gate system in 2005 and I’ve since upgraded to a greenbox 12.? I have mostly 6” gates and a few 5” gates.? The small plastic “Consumer” 4” gates are pretty much junk.

?

?

Hello John, I've got the barrel grip version of the same saw, the PS 300. No way was I buying the, then newly out Carvex after reading of the disappointment of early adopter Festool fanboys... The PS 300 isn't a bad saw, for "normal" jigsaw tasks. I set it up to cut square, with lower guides adjusted to thicknesses of each of half a dozen blades I tried. Each blade would cross cut square and most would cut squarely into end grain. However, once endlessly cutting radius plates and sill they would be deflected by the changing grain. Tried various Bosche and Festool blades. Wish Freud/ Diablo made jigsaw blades in the same stout manner as their diablo carbide tipped recip saw blades... those things are amazing... Perhaps I've just yet to find a thick enough/stiff enough blade. Recomendations? Apprciate your input, Lance

---

From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>;
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com>;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 2:47:56 PM

? Lance I use the old PB 300 with the Festool 6" blade which is still I believe around $300.00. If the jaws are adjusted properly and jigsaw supported properly it gives an accurate 90 degree cut through 4" hard maple. A lot of people don't like this model because it actually take a little skill and sensitive touch to adjust for highly accurate cuts but that's their problem not the jigsaw. I don't do enough jigsaw work to justify the Mafel which is really in the stupid zone for pricing that along with limited support in NA. Its also my understanding that you have to use Mafel's special blades to obtain that accurate cut through thick wood and materials.If I used a jigsaw everyday it would be worth trying but I'm lucky to use mine once a month. The only other consideration would be the recently released Bosch high end jigsaw but I have no experience with it as its been unobtainium this side of the border until recently. On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroup s.com> wrote: ? Thanks for that, John. After going on six months since ordering the Pro 5, I'm once again looking forward to working with the tool once it arrives. As for the jigsaw..., owner reviews had me interested once again in getting one of the Mafell P1's. The projects I do often require radius and elliptical plates out of 2x and 3x, and I've yet to find a jigsaw whose blade stays pointed where it was when entering the cut. The Mafell seemed closest to being able to do so but I couldn't get beyond that the US dollar had gained 30% against the Euro and yet the importer, rather than reflecting what should have been a price drop, had instead jacked up the price over $100. Be well, Lance From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:26 PM ? Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business. As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year. John On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote: ? John, I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th. I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines..., eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent. But a current project had challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when connected to the Makita VC4710 vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise. Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces. The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander. ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction. Best, Lance From: John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:05 AM ? Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money.? I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.? John JMK Services? -------- Original message -------- From: "ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit ? mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better? -- John Kee JMK Services -- John Kee JMK Services

?

Lance I've found that the Festool blades are typically thicker then the comparable Bosch or others which seems to aid when do curves in thicker hardwood. Now not all the cut are absolutely perfect and there can be some minor deflection but they are easily cleaned up with sanding. I bought a multipac years ago that has served me well, I think it was a special for $35.00 and gave me a chance to try various blades. Checkout the blade guide.

On Tue, Feb 7, 2017 at 12:09 AM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

?

Hello John, I've got the barrel grip version of the same saw, the PS 300. No way was I buying the, then newly out Carvex after reading of the disappointment of early adopter Festool fanboys... The PS 300 isn't a bad saw, for "normal" jigsaw tasks. I set it up to cut square, with lower guides adjusted to thicknesses of each of half a dozen blades I tried. Each blade would cross cut square and most would cut squarely into end grain. However, once endlessly cutting radius plates and sill they would be deflected by the changing grain. Tried various Bosche and Festool blades. Wish Freud/ Diablo made jigsaw blades in the same stout manner as their diablo carbide tipped recip saw blades... those things are amazing... Perhaps I've just yet to find a thick enough/stiff enough blade. Recomendations? Apprciate your input, Lance

---

From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>;
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 2:47:56 PM

? Lance I use the old PB 300 with the Festool 6" blade which is still I believe around $300.00. If the jaws are adjusted properly and jigsaw supported properly it gives an accurate 90 degree cut through 4" hard maple. A lot of people don't like this model because it actually take a little skill and sensitive touch to adjust for highly accurate cuts but that's their problem not the jigsaw. I don't do enough jigsaw work to justify the Mafel which is really in the stupid zone for pricing that along with limited support in NA. Its also my understanding that you have to use Mafel's special blades to obtain that accurate cut through thick wood and materials.If I used a jigsaw everyday it would be worth trying but I'm lucky to use mine once a month. The only other consideration would be the recently released Bosch high end jigsaw but I have no experience with it as its been unobtainium this side of the border until recently. On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ? Thanks for that, John. After going on six months since ordering the Pro 5, I'm once again looking forward to working with the tool once it arrives. As for the jigsaw..., owner reviews had me interested once again in getting one of the Mafell P1's. The projects I do often require radius and elliptical plates out of 2x and 3x, and I've yet to find a jigsaw whose blade stays pointed where it was when entering the cut. The Mafell seemed closest to being able to do so but I couldn't get beyond that the US dollar had gained 30% against the Euro and yet the importer, rather than reflecting what should have been a price drop, had instead jacked up the price over $100. Be well, Lance From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:26 PM ? Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business. As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year. John On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote: ? John, I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th. I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines..., eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent. But a current project had challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when connected to the Makita VC4710 vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise. Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces. The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander. ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction. Best, Lance From: John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:05 AM ? Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money.? I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.? John JMK Services? -------- Original message -------- From: "ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit ? mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better? -- John Kee JMK Services -- John Kee JMK Services

--

John Kee

JMK Services

?

Hello John, I've got the barrel grip version of the same saw, the PS 300. No way was I buying the, then newly out Carvex after reading of the disappointment of early adopter Festool fanboys... The PS 300 isn't a bad saw, for "normal" jigsaw tasks. I set it up to cut square, with lower guides adjusted to thicknesses of each of half a dozen blades I tried. Each blade would cross cut square and most would cut squarely into end grain. However, once endlessly cutting radius plates and sill they would be deflected by the changing grain. Tried various Bosche and Festool blades. Wish Freud/ Diablo made jigsaw blades in the same stout manner as their diablo carbide tipped recip saw blades... those things are amazing... Perhaps I've just yet to find a thick enough/stiff enough blade. Recomendations? Apprciate your input, Lance

---

From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>;
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 2:47:56 PM

? Lance I use the old PB 300 with the Festool 6" blade which is still I believe around $300.00. If the jaws are adjusted properly and jigsaw supported properly it gives an accurate 90 degree cut through 4" hard maple. A lot of people don't like this model because it actually take a little skill and sensitive touch to adjust for highly accurate cuts but that's their problem not the jigsaw. I don't do enough jigsaw work to justify the Mafel which is really in the stupid zone for pricing that along with limited support in NA. Its also my understanding that you have to use Mafel's special blades to obtain that accurate cut through thick wood and materials.If I used a jigsaw everyday it would be worth trying but I'm lucky to use mine once a month. The only other consideration would be the recently released Bosch high end jigsaw but I have no experience with it as its been unobtainium this side of the border until recently. On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ? Thanks for that, John. After going on six months since ordering the Pro 5, I'm once again looking forward to working with the tool once it arrives. As for the jigsaw..., owner reviews had me interested once again in getting one of the Mafell P1's. The projects I do often require radius and elliptical plates out of 2x and 3x, and I've yet to find a jigsaw whose blade stays pointed where it was when entering the cut. The Mafell seemed closest to being able to do so but I couldn't get beyond that the US dollar had gained 30% against the Euro and yet the importer, rather than reflecting what should have been a price drop, had instead jacked up the price over $100. Be well, Lance From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:26 PM ? Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business. As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year. John On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote: ? John, I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th. I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines..., eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent. But a current project had challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when connected to the Makita VC4710 vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise. Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces. The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander. ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction. Best, Lance From: John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:05 AM ? Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money.? I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.? John JMK Services? -------- Original message -------- From: "ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit ? mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better? -- John Kee JMK Services -- John Kee JMK Services

?

Thanks for that, John. After going on six months since ordering the Pro 5, I'm once again looking forward to working with the tool once it arrives. As for the jigsaw..., owner reviews had me interested once again in getting one of the Mafell P1's. The projects I do often require radius and elliptical plates out of 2x and 3x, and I've yet to find a jigsaw whose blade stays pointed where it was when entering the cut. The Mafell seemed closest to being able to do so but I couldn't get beyond that the US dollar had gained 30% against the Euro and yet the importer, rather than reflecting what should have been a price drop, had instead jacked up the price over $100. Be well, Lance

---

From: John Kee jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>;
To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:26 PM

? Lance, I got 2 of the Festool Pro 5 sanders when they first came out and have used one of them on various projects. The first test was taking a rough sawn board cutoff about 20" long and 10" wide to a 4000 grit polish. The process started with 60 grit and worked up to 4000 grit. Now some would big deal that have no previous knowledge of Festool sanders. In this instance the original ETS 125 was a terrible sander that you could actually stall with heavier grits, it was strictly a fine finish sander. The new Pro5 is very difficult to stall. The brushless line of 5" and 6" ETS EC that came out a couple of years ago are low profile. lightweight extremely powerful sanders that if you ever have the chance might be worth looking into. I was actually considering the Deros before I got Festool ETS EC 150/5 and that's when dealer/friend suggested it was better to stick with Festool. He sells both so the sale was his either way. They were basically the same price and his exact words were, if you really want to go with Mirka, buy 2, then you will have one to use when the other is being repaired. Since that time I have talked to others that I deal with and basically got the same response, with both guys telling me that they check every unit before they send it out because one in four doesn't even work, brand new. They have the sanders, don't promote them because of the issues but wants the Mirka sand paper business. As far as Festool goes not all the tools are a cut above, especially for the amount they cost, the Kapex being one of the most overpriced units on the planet with a far amount of issues. The early Carvex jigsaws were terrible and some of the drills not so good. The integrated system approach is hard to beat with many others trying to catchup. The main issue I see being a longtime Festool user is people comparing the latest and greatest tools from their favourite manufacturer whether it Makita, Dewalt or Bosch to something that has been part of Festool for a very longtime. The list of accessories that Festool makes for their tools is unmatched with crossover use very handy. The vac setups and accessories are second to none IMHO which include a boom arm and workstation attachment. Lots of room in this discussion for the Festool haters to jump in but if you haven't tried them you really can't discuss them. I too at one time thought they were overpriced for what you got and many of them still are and getting worse every year. John On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 11:30 PM, Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> wrote: ? John, I've used a Festo track saw since the early 90's and love the tool.... best non-saw-guard ever with the saw body retracting up above the table..., bought the top Festool Jig saw (very unimpressed) in 2015 when doing a job on the road because the new Bosche wasn't available locally, but have yet to use a Festool sander. You, Brian and many others on the forum speak highly of them, and I've had a Pro 5 LTD ETS 125 on order since paying the Tool Nut $99 last Oct. 7th. I would agree that the Makita and Dewalt sanders aren't in the same league as the Festool, Mirka and perhaps other higher end tools, and the integrated vacuum hose/cords both Mirka and Festool came out with are clever and especially handy if one stays with the respective tool lines..., eapecially so in a shop where the sanding tasks are consistent. But a current project had challenges where no single sander line was the best choice. Along with "traditional" sanding tasks, on this project the 1/2" exterior wood bevel siding needed serious prep for paint on a 1925 Bungalow. I've known pro painters have preferred the Makita GV5000 (now replaced by the slightly more powerful GV5010) sanders mated to the 5" 3M Coating Removal Discs, which are 5/8" or so thick and so agressively sand both face and bottom edge of the siding course above simultaneously. Very handy and time saving. Because the GV5000's have no provision for dust collection, I drilled out the M8-1.25 threads and tapped them 5/16-24 to adapt the Mirka hook and loop pads on both of mine, using a leftover thin pocket door wrench to tighten to shaft, then bought and installed the very clever retrofit dust collection shields from Paintshaver, which surround the disc with a circular wall of brushes and do a fair job of capturing dust when connected to the Makita VC4710 vacuum. To my knowledge, no other sander would collect dust better when using the 3M CD pads than what was used here, but I'm open to learning otherwise. Paintshaver also makes a clever device which works like a plane but which has rotary carbide blades. Too rich for my blood, so I bought the comparable Metabo LF 724S for about half the price. Depth of cut is adjustable and tool is great for first pass of paint prep on challenging surfaces. The Mirka Deros follows the 3M CRD treatment and works great feathering edges while erasing marks left from the more aggressive tools. Corners, tight spots and trim edges are finshed off using the Fein multimaster sander. ALL of these tools connect to the VC4710 for dust collection. Neither the Festool nor the Mirka hoses with integrated cord would have helped in adapting all of these devices. With the knowledge I process, I thought each of these tools, from various manufacturers and with some adaptation best served challenges we faced in this applicaction. Best, Lance From: John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; To: FOG <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com>; Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 12:31:05 AM ? Unfortunately in my world Makita and Dewalt aren't even a consideration for sanders. I use alot of Makita but won't own Dewalt for love nor money.? I've been using Festool sanders for 9 years now without issue and currently have 6 I use regularly. I ?tried many including Mirka and Bosch. Taking the Mirka warning or don't I really don't care but when 3 different dealers I ?know tell me the same thing I have a tendency to take their advice.? John JMK Services? -------- Original message -------- From: "ianparkesy@... [felder-woodworking]" <felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com> Date: 2017-02-05 7:04 PM (GMT-05:00) To: felder-woodworking@ yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit ? mirka deros is great , mine works hard every day and is 2 years old now . so much lighter and easier to use than anything else out there . I had 2 makita random orbit before , they lasted well but were too heavy for anything but flat sanding on the bench . as for festool i can not see the value your just paying for the name as far as i can see. have had a few festool tools but dewalt and makita was better? -- John Kee JMK Services

On 7 Feb 2017, at 1:56 PM, Jason Holtz jholtzy@... [felder-woodworking] <felder-woodworking@...> wrote:

I recently got one of the Festool ETS 125 EC brushless sanders. I used it about two weeks and sent it back. I have to say, I really wanted to like it. I like the lower profile than my old 125, it's lighter, love how fast it stopped. It sanded really nicely. BUT the damn thing was so tippy it was no good for big flat surfaces. With the handle more behind the pad than on top of it I found it a struggle to keep it flat one handed. The vac hose does not help this either.?

Have to say my 3M pneumatic ro is my favorite. If I only had a screw compressor...Then I'd have no complaints about running it for hours on end.

Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765

Also, there is the Mirka Smart Cart which holds all your sanding gear, including extractor: $698.75 here: Or perhaps use some 1/4" rod bent as shown on the smart cart holding sanding heads and attached to the extractor?

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From: Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To: yahoogroups ;
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit
Sent: Mon, Feb 6, 2017 6:13:35 AM

? So Cliff, Do you have the power supply mounting bracket to attach to the extractor with your Ceros setup? From: Cliff rohrabacher@... [felder-woodworking] ; To: ; Subject: [felder-woodworking] Mirka Ceros the whole kit Sent: Sun, Feb 5, 2017 6:01:46 PM ? I got a Mirka a while back when I restored my large living room. It was great. I've used it a lot since. I did the gorilla hose thing to make the power cord and vacuum hose all one unit and that is a real improvement. Too bad they didn't make them unified at design. But it's still a bear to put away The hose has to be coiled and there's nothing on the vacuum unit that is designed to accommodate the hose and sander head. I never liked the transformer location because of the on off switch location. It's as if these parts were all brought together from different suppliers with nary a thought about integration. YA gotta reach around back and fiddle with the transformer switch, then to the front for the main switch. Any one figured out how to bring it all together into a smoother unit with the switches all facing the front side a place to coil the hose and a rest for the power head? I know, it'll be crickets.