Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Jason, me too. (As in I¡¯ve admired the work on your website too!) (And as in I would like to know your sanding regime!)
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Jason I've been admiring your work on your website and of course in fww a while back. I aspire to be doing something similar when I get established.?
I'd be interested in what kind of regime you have for sanding/ finishing in terms of working through the grits and if you have any positive experiences with festool sanders (obviously you were less than happy with the 125)
Stephen ?
I'm dumping it directly into the hose of my 5 HP dust collector, so not much is getting by. Jason Holtz J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406 612.432.2765
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Jason
I've been admiring your work on your website and of course in fww a while back. I aspire to be doing something similar when I get established.
I'd be interested in what kind of regime you have for sanding/ finishing in terms of working through the grits and if you have any positive experiences with festool sanders (obviously you were less than happy with the 125)
Stephen
?
I'm dumping it directly into the hose of my 5 HP dust collector, so not much is getting by. Jason Holtz J. Holtz Furniture 3307 Snelling Ave. South Minneapolis, MN 55406 612.432.2765
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
I'm dumping it directly into the hose of my 5 HP dust collector, so not much is getting by. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
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Re: Morso guillotine question
We use a low voltage relay with doorbell wire running to each gate, and a micro switch that is activated by opening the blast gate. Pretty simple system. Jason Holtz
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
612.432.2765
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
So that's not a banana in your pocket?? Dave
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From: felder-woodworking@... on behalf of mac campshure mac512002@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 8:23 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
?
?
I do that when my pockets ware out.?
Designing and building for 47 years
?
On 2/8/2017 8:23 PM, murkyd@... [felder-woodworking] wrote:
> then I fold the cut end and staple it.
Hot glue might offer a more secure closure
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
If is fair to say that it is no longer meeting HEPA standard when the bag has been cut and stapled. Also dumping wood dust causes small particles to be suspended in the air and potentially cause harm.
I thought one of the reason to buy these is to have clean breathable air.
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
On 2/8/2017 8:23 PM, murkyd@... [felder-woodworking] wrote: then I fold the cut end and staple it. Hot glue might offer a more secure closure
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Thank you for all your advice and help on this forum but my Felder days are up. I'm selling my shop. I have the following for sale RL125, B3 winner comfort package, A3-31 for sale I'm in Toronto Canada. My parents selling house!!!
Jonathon
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Thanks all for the responses!
I'll have to revisit the dealers and see if there are alternate filters and bags which won't clog so easily with fine dust, so my other vacs can be put back into use. Meanwhile, the Makita is brilliant and can be purchased for a bit over $500, delivered in the US most any day of the week. An optional hose, in addition to the stock unit, fits all of my sanders, planers and saws, including the Festo stuff.
The VC4710 is a rebadged Nilfisk/Alto/WAP Attix 50 AS/E Xtremeclean model made in Hungary. I bought the first one, but with the Hepa filter setup (also available through Makita) back in 05 for my drywall finisher, who had the Porter Cable drywall sanding setup. We did 105 houses in two years, he was there every day, and just covered in dust. The PC vac had a manual brush style filter cleaner but much of the dust got by into the
room. I couldn't stand seeing him work in those conditions, so bought the Attix (then, close to $1,200). After using it one week he paid me for the Vac..., his health was already improving. Once Makita began selling them I kept an eye out on pricing and jumped on one of ZORO's periodic 30% off..., today only deals, paid $432, delivered.
Unfortunately for some..., it match the Festool colors or systainer system...
Be well,
Lance |
From:
John jmkserv@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
FOG ;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Sent:
Wed, Feb 8, 2017 10:24:51 PM
?
Lance if you use the bags as recommended no need for autoclean. We have one of the autoclean units but it is used mainly with the drywall sander. Most vacs with the autoclean features don't use bags. The newer fabric bags work well but many have trouble with the cost. I use CT 36 almost daily and I only notice a bit of reduction when it's being constantly used for sanding, takes about 3 months to fill a bag. The CT 26 I use for vacuuming the shop and it usually lasts a 1 1/2 to 2 months. I ?got a deal on a long life bag and it's in there.?
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-------- Original message -------- From: "Lance Clifford offaces@... [felder-woodworking]"
Date: 2017-02-08 4:23 PM (GMT-05:00) To: yahoogroups Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
?
Question for you folks with Festool vacuums...,
Do they have some way of cleaning the filters of dust? I see the 36 model has an upgraded option, Autoclean, but no mention of filter cleaning on the rest of the line. There IS mention of their "new self cleaning bag".
I bought a Fein decades ago, and the thing was quiet, but the filters would have to be cleaned numerous times per day when connected to a sander, in order to regain suction. Also years ago, I bought an Italian sourced, larger vacuum..., very nice, quiet, but the same issue of rapidly losing suction when sanding.
For a bit over a year I've used a 12 gallon, Makita VC4710, which has an auto cleaning function where every 15 seconds or so it shuts down one of the two
filters and blows it clean..., 15 seconds later it does the same to the other. Full suction is continuously maintained
throughout use, bags can be filled to the brim before emptying and I'm a happy camper.
I figure that as happy as folks seem with their Festool vacs, there must be at least a manual method of periodically cleaning filters, but I'm just not finding it in the literature...
Thanks,
Lance |
From:
Marlowe McGraw marlomcgraw@... [felder-woodworking] ;
To:
felder-woodworking ;
Subject:
Re: [felder-woodworking] Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Sent:
Wed, Feb 8, 2017 7:38:28 PM
?
I've had a CT26 for years and like it.? I have an Oneida cyclone to ?catch the big stuff, so that my bags last longer. ? I am not a fan of the tool receptacle. ? Doesn't work consistently with festool cords so I have a work around tri plug. Hope that they have improved that, but otherwise a great vacuum.? Marlowe McGraw?
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
David,
I bought it from woodcraft 3 or 4 years ago, less than $200.?
The old model had static issue which might damage the tool, that is probably why John said Festool will not honor the warranty if the tool is damaged because of the static charge by the cyclone. The new one has no such issue.
I have CT26 with Oneida cyclone plus boom arm, it works well, no complain :)
James
?
James those Oneida add-ons are ugly as shit
And now ?THIS ?- from the Window¡¯s guy. ? ? :-)
David Best
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Re: Morso guillotine question
I dont?know why i have such aversion to everything electrical. All this seems so complicated and in reality i know it is very simple.
Being a residental carpenter jack of all trades type you would think by now i would have a little more than a basic understandimg of electricity and or electronic devices.
I cant tell you how many time i habe had electrician friends give me the rundown with regard to what is something very simole and basic only to for the fog and glazed over look to set in instantly.
I know im not dumb. And yes it is a proven theory even though i know i cant spell. One of my electrician buddies tells me that many poeple that are otherwise very capable just cant get the most basic electrical priciples.?
So does anyone use the Felder micro chip and wire harness thingy..
On Wednesday, February 8, 2017, brian@... [felder-woodworking] < felder-woodworking@...> wrote:
?
Yet another way to remotely control a DC: Buy (~$20 ea.) a Lutron Pico remote??for each machine. It has a french cleat VHB tape mount, put it next to the ON/OFF station. Also buy a plug-in remote dimmer??and use it to turn a 120v relay on and off. Set up the dimmer as on/off only (easy). Slave the Picos to the remote (up to 49 of them). Then it's just an extra button push. These are completely reliable devices. ?
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Of course. I knew that! Thanks Stephen.
Regarding the new wide belt. Yes, I¡¯ll certainly let everyone know how it goes. Cheers.
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Lucky
It's Stephen. ..(tried to update my account to show that) Your finishing regime does sound maybe a little excessive but what do I know. ..you have a lot more furniture under your belt that? me. I've never went above 400 grit.?
I'd be interested to hear how others approach sanding prior to finishing...? Fair play to you for getting a resolution on the wide belt. Hope the new one meets your expectations. Even if it does cost the price of a ...large...European car!?? On 9 Feb 2017 00:40, "David Luckensmeyer ?dhluckens@...?[felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@...> wrote: ?Sorry, forgotten the name that goes with ayesurely.
I kind of fell into the second Rotex 150, which I agree is a bit luxurious. My brother-in-law was selling his Festool collection for a good discount and I couldn¡¯t resist. I must say I now often use both Rotex 150s, one with foam and one with lambswool. It is a killer combo when waxing a lot of timber¡ :-)
Ok, this is how I do my sanding ¡ª and I¡¯m not saying it is right or proper or correct ¡ª but here goes: Rotex 150 on aggressive with 120 grit. (I rarely need to go down to 80 grit because I get a pretty good finish off the thicknesser.) Then move straight to the EC 150/5, through 150, 180, and 240 grits. If I am putting on a hand-rubbed oil finish, I continue to 400, but lately my friends have been persuading me that this is excessive. (Cough, sputter. I¡¯m starting to agree. Who likes sanding, right?)
I use the EC 150/3 for dry- and wet-sanding between coats. Dry sanding at 240 grit for water-based finishes which really need smoothing out after application. As for the wet-sanding, I love using the Festool paper at 1500 or even 3000 grit for wet-sanding with oil for a final coat. That combination ¡ª the EC 150/3 and wet-sanding with 1500/3000 ?¡ª makes for a glass-smooth finish. I just love it.
Over the last six months I¡¯ve had access to the FW950 Classic wide belt sander. When it works, I finish with 180 grit on the wide belt, and go straight to finishing for large-scale interior fit out where the ¡°smoothness¡± is not so critical, or I use the EC 150/5 at 240/320/400 for really fine smaller pieces, and then proceed to finishing.
I do not like the Classic for many reasons, and Felder have kindly offered me full credit on the machine and I¡¯m planning to upgrade to one of the Format-4 models ¡ª maybe the FW1102 Finish, which is a beautifully built EMC machine. Unfortunately, once having tasted the luxury of having a wide belt, I just can¡¯t go back ¡ª even if it is costing me the price of a small European car.
Lucky
Lucky
You have quite the collection there!
When you say general sanding and finish sanding...what's your work flow say for table tops...is it using ETS EC 150/3 from 80 grit up or are you staring with the /5 and then switching to the /3.?
I presume you've got your fair share of hard hardwoods in Oz. (I have a little offcut of jarrah burr stashed away somewhere myself)? On 8 Feb 2017 21:37, "Luckensmeyer David ?dhluckens@...?[ felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?
This is an interesting thread. I have the midi, a CT33, CT36 and CT48, plus multiple sanders including a vintage Rotex 150 (year: 1996), ETS EC150/5, ETS EC150/3 and new Rotex 150. I love all the sanders and regard the new brushless sanders to be worth the money if used constantly. I can hardly tell the difference between the /5 and /3. However, I use one for general sanding and the other for finish sanding.?
My old CT33 has a manual filter cleaning system. But all the newer CTs have nothing I can find? I do not "appear" to experience any loss of suction until the bag is so full the dust/chips start backing up the hose. LOL!! I have long life bags fitted.
?
Question for you folks with Festool vacuums...,
Do they have some way of cleaning the filters of dust? I see the 36 model has an upgraded option, Autoclean, but no mention of filter cleaning on the rest of the line. There IS mention of their "new self cleaning bag".
I bought a Fein decades ago, and the thing was quiet, but the filters would have to be cleaned numerous times per day when connected to a sander, in order to regain suction. Also years ago, I bought an Italian sourced, larger vacuum..., very nice, quiet, but the same issue of rapidly losing suction when sanding.
For a bit over a year I've used a 12 gallon, Makita VC4710, which has an auto cleaning function where every 15 seconds or so it shuts down one of the two filters and blows it clean..., 15 seconds later it does the same to the other. Full suction is continuously maintained throughout use, bags can be filled to the brim before emptying and I'm a happy camper.
I figure that as happy as folks seem with their Festool vacs, there must be at least a manual method of periodically cleaning filters, but I'm just not finding it in the literature...
Thanks,
Lance |
?
I've had a CT26 for years and like it.? I have an Oneida cyclone to ?catch the big stuff, so that my bags last longer. ? I am not a fan of the tool receptacle. ? Doesn't work consistently with festool cords so I have a work around tri plug. Hope that they have improved that, but otherwise a great vacuum.? Marlowe McGraw? |
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Dave,
Good to know. ?I think your observations coincide with mine. ?My main point in this thread is that if you can only have one, get the 5mm or 3/16¡± equivalent unless you like spending more time sanding. ? It will do it all just like you said. ?I think the 2.5-3mm orbit sanders get recommended a bit too often. ?The tighter orbit is slightly more fool proof but slower which is not the right choice for a production environment.
Do you notice any difference in vibration between the 3 & 5?
I prefer the 3mm for between coat sanding as I feel it doesn¡¯t load the paper up as quickly. ?I also use it with a softer pad compared to the 5. ?I tend to switch at 150 grit between the two, but mostly just due to laziness. ?I rarely sand beyond 150-180, waterborne finishes raise the grain too much to go beyond that. ?The 5mm can leave visible swirls if I¡¯m being aggressive or not paying attention, particularly on the harder woods I like to use. ?Rare, but happens. ?The 3mm is more forgiving, so I switch to the 3mm a few grits earlier than necessary just to be safe and skip hand sanding with the grain.
I don¡¯t own an 8mm. ?If I need to be that aggressive I go for a scraper or a plane, which helps keep things more or less straight & true.
Regards, -Denis
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Denis, not totally relevant but I have Dynabrades with 3/8,3/16, and 3/32 orbit patterns.? The 3/8 is aggressive and beats me to death on wood but I like it for sanding cast iron if you do any of that.? The 3/32 is more of a polisher and gets used with fine grit or certain wood that seems to need the finer scratch pattern- or almost never.? The 3/16 gets 90% of everything up to 320 grit.? It is usually just right.? Kind of Goldilocks.? Dave
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Re: Morso guillotine question
Yet another way to remotely control a DC: Buy (~$20 ea.) a Lutron Pico remote??for each machine. It has a french cleat VHB tape mount, put it next to the ON/OFF station. Also buy a plug-in remote dimmer??and use it to turn a 120v relay on and off. Set up the dimmer as on/off only (easy). Slave the Picos to the remote (up to 49 of them). Then it's just an extra button push. These are completely reliable devices. ?
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Re: Bandsaw for Resaw with Co-Matic Feeder
I just uploaded a few new
pictures. ?Got the ?"Laguna" 24-24 and also the Co-Matic 110. ?The feeder
electric tied in with the electrical box of the saw so 1 power cord.
?Pneumatic not hooked up yet.
?
I had an idea on bandsaw outfeed.
?I put the bandsaw behind the outfeed table of the jointer on the
jointer-planer. ?I will add an extension table to the bandsaw similar to
what I saw on another forum (picture of that posted). ?I will add a
smaller extension to the back of the jointer outfeed and adjust to that when the
jointer table lifts there is clearance. ?Right now the bandsaw table is
3/4 inch lower than the jointer table but I can adjust that to make sure it is the same
height. ?Seems to really best utilize space and really opened up my shop when I arranged things this way compared to having the bandsaw against a wall!!!!! ?I will never need
to move the resaw bandsaw or jointer-planer to have room for larger boards.
?
On the infeed side of the
resaw bandsaw, I think it would be nice to have a removable infeed extension
table like the Felder (in the picture) as opposed to the Aigner as there is no
support piece needed to the ground and I do not want the infeed table as long
as what Aigner offers. ?Also I like the idea of a standard fence clipping
on to that same rail that can be removed without sliding off (as the rollers of
the feeder fence will be in the way. ?This way I can use a regular fence
for ripping shorter pieces with a scale, and remove it when doing resaw.
?The 20 inch Agazzani is next to the resaw bandsaw and can be rolled
out a bit if needed, but that table is higher and not a conflict with the resaw
table. ?Grouping these machines together seems to really work out well.
?
With this configuration, I
save an awful lot of space and maintain excellent clearances. ?Need to now
re-do the dust collection.
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Re: Morso guillotine question
I use a current sensing relay but it helps that it's a combo machine.? If you have, say, 5 machines you could run the A phase of each (5 wires) through the CT 'doughnut hole' and the machine would just start automatically. It make a surprising difference not to have to make that extra motion every time you turn on a machine.
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
I have three Festool vacs. ? Depending on what's in them, I sometimes re-use the bags. ?I just cut the end off with scissors, dump the contents in the trash, then I fold the cut end and staple it.
Mark?
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Denis, not totally relevant but I have Dynabrades with 3/8,3/16, and 3/32 orbit patterns.? The 3/8 is aggressive and beats me to death on wood but I like it for sanding cast iron if you do any of that.? The 3/32 is more of a polisher and gets used with fine
grit or certain wood that seems to need the finer scratch pattern- or almost never.? The 3/16 gets 90% of everything up to 320 grit.? It is usually just right.? Kind of Goldilocks.? Dave
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Show quoted text
From: felder-woodworking@... on behalf of Denis Kenzior denkenz@... [felder-woodworking]
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 7:49 PM
To: felder-woodworking@...
Subject: Re: [felder-woodworking] Festool shop vac and sanders
?
?
> I'm hoping to be able to put most stuff through the drum sander at 120
> grit and then use the ETS EC From there so maybe I can get away with the
> /3 mm ?
>
If you can rely on the drum sander most of the time, then you might be
able to get away with the 3mm. I feel like the 3mm is better for
sanding between coats as well, though something like an rts400 can do
the job. Still, the 3 is really a finishing sander. The 5 is a bit
more aggressive with few downsides.
Regards,
-Denis
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Re: Festool shop vac and sanders
Lucky
It's Stephen. ..(tried to update my account to show that)
Your finishing regime does sound maybe a little excessive but what do I know. ..you have a lot more furniture under your belt that? me. I've never went above 400 grit.
I'd be interested to hear how others approach sanding prior to finishing...?
Fair play to you for getting a resolution on the wide belt. Hope the new one meets your expectations. Even if it does cost the price of a ...large...European car!?
?
Sorry, forgotten the name that goes with ayesurely.
I kind of fell into the second Rotex 150, which I agree is a bit luxurious. My brother-in-law was selling his Festool collection for a good discount and I couldn¡¯t resist. I must say I now often use both Rotex 150s, one with foam and one with lambswool. It is a killer combo when waxing a lot of timber¡ :-)
Ok, this is how I do my sanding ¡ª and I¡¯m not saying it is right or proper or correct ¡ª but here goes: Rotex 150 on aggressive with 120 grit. (I rarely need to go down to 80 grit because I get a pretty good finish off the thicknesser.) Then move straight to the EC 150/5, through 150, 180, and 240 grits. If I am putting on a hand-rubbed oil finish, I continue to 400, but lately my friends have been persuading me that this is excessive. (Cough, sputter. I¡¯m starting to agree. Who likes sanding, right?)
I use the EC 150/3 for dry- and wet-sanding between coats. Dry sanding at 240 grit for water-based finishes which really need smoothing out after application. As for the wet-sanding, I love using the Festool paper at 1500 or even 3000 grit for wet-sanding with oil for a final coat. That combination ¡ª the EC 150/3 and wet-sanding with 1500/3000 ?¡ª makes for a glass-smooth finish. I just love it.
Over the last six months I¡¯ve had access to the FW950 Classic wide belt sander. When it works, I finish with 180 grit on the wide belt, and go straight to finishing for large-scale interior fit out where the ¡°smoothness¡± is not so critical, or I use the EC 150/5 at 240/320/400 for really fine smaller pieces, and then proceed to finishing.
I do not like the Classic for many reasons, and Felder have kindly offered me full credit on the machine and I¡¯m planning to upgrade to one of the Format-4 models ¡ª maybe the FW1102 Finish, which is a beautifully built EMC machine. Unfortunately, once having tasted the luxury of having a wide belt, I just can¡¯t go back ¡ª even if it is costing me the price of a small European car.
Lucky
Lucky
You have quite the collection there!
When you say general sanding and finish sanding...what's your work flow say for table tops...is it using ETS EC 150/3 from 80 grit up or are you staring with the /5 and then switching to the /3.?
I presume you've got your fair share of hard hardwoods in Oz. (I have a little offcut of jarrah burr stashed away somewhere myself)? On 8 Feb 2017 21:37, "Luckensmeyer David ?dhluckens@...?[ felder-woodworking]" < felder-woodworking@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ?
This is an interesting thread. I have the midi, a CT33, CT36 and CT48, plus multiple sanders including a vintage Rotex 150 (year: 1996), ETS EC150/5, ETS EC150/3 and new Rotex 150. I love all the sanders and regard the new brushless sanders to be worth the money if used constantly. I can hardly tell the difference between the /5 and /3. However, I use one for general sanding and the other for finish sanding.?
My old CT33 has a manual filter cleaning system. But all the newer CTs have nothing I can find? I do not "appear" to experience any loss of suction until the bag is so full the dust/chips start backing up the hose. LOL!! I have long life bags fitted.
?
Question for you folks with Festool vacuums...,
Do they have some way of cleaning the filters of dust? I see the 36 model has an upgraded option, Autoclean, but no mention of filter cleaning on the rest of the line. There IS mention of their "new self cleaning bag".
I bought a Fein decades ago, and the thing was quiet, but the filters would have to be cleaned numerous times per day when connected to a sander, in order to regain suction. Also years ago, I bought an Italian sourced, larger vacuum..., very nice, quiet, but the same issue of rapidly losing suction when sanding.
For a bit over a year I've used a 12 gallon, Makita VC4710, which has an auto cleaning function where every 15 seconds or so it shuts down one of the two filters and blows it clean..., 15 seconds later it does the same to the other. Full suction is continuously maintained throughout use, bags can be filled to the brim before emptying and I'm a happy camper.
I figure that as happy as folks seem with their Festool vacs, there must be at least a manual method of periodically cleaning filters, but I'm just not finding it in the literature...
Thanks,
Lance |
?
I've had a CT26 for years and like it.? I have an Oneida cyclone to ?catch the big stuff, so that my bags last longer. ? I am not a fan of the tool receptacle. ? Doesn't work consistently with festool cords so I have a work around tri plug. Hope that they have improved that, but otherwise a great vacuum.? Marlowe McGraw? |
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David Luckensmeyer
Jason Holtz
imran