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Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Hi Michael,
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
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On Dec 21, 2024, at 8:25?PM, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote:
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[Edited Message Follows]
Sounds like no one is using metric sized main ducts, which is sort of what I expected to hear.? I'm a little concerned about going from a 160mm inlet to a 7" duct (~175mm), as I don't know how to estimate what the impact of the constriction at the collector would be.? But perhaps that just means I should pay a professional company to do the math for me.? Going from a 160mm inlet to a 6" main duct is easier to wrap my head around, but the increase in static pressure, combined with my altitude, is a bit problematic.
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I definitely don't want to run 8" main ducting, as I'm a one man operation, and all of my tools will constrict airflow enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain the right velocity in the main 8" duct without having extra gates open.
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You didn¡¯t identify the extractor you are using, but if it¡¯s a Felder RL-series on 3-phase, the extractor impeller is running 20 percent faster than the design target due to the difference in 50 versus 60 hertz. ?Have you factored that into your thinking?
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I did get a fan-curve for the RL-160 from Fergus Cooke at Felder Sacramento, but I guess I need to double check as to whether that's for 50 Hz or 60 Hz power.? I haven't yet settled on a specific collector.? I'm biased towards a euro-style negative pressure unit, and I'm looking at Felder, Al-Ko, Spaenex, and Hocker Polytechnic units.? Unfortunately, none of them sell high pressure dust collectors until you get into physically larger units than I need for my shop, so I may have to fall back to a American cyclone unit.? The Oneida folks sell a 5HP high vacuum SMART Boost system that is rated for 1000 CFM at ~18" WC, which would more than meet my needs.? The price is attractive compared to the Europeans, but the downside is a much higher noise level.? I'm pretty noise sensitive, so going that route will probably force me to think about building a containment closet for the collector, and baffled or duct silencers for the exhaust.
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-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
Re: Phase Perfect Price Increase
I'm in a similar position, shopping for a workshop where the construction won't be done until ~May next year.? At least the Phase Perfect units aren't all that big, so getting a delivery now and throwing it in the back of a closet of a few months isn't that bad.? Not like trying to figure out where to stash a 10' slider...
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-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
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Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Sounds like no one is using metric sized main ducts, which is sort of what I expected to hear.? I'm a little concerned about going from a 160mm inlet to a 7" duct (~175mm), as I don't know how to estimate what the impact of the constriction at the collector would be.? But perhaps that just means I should pay a professional company to do the math for me.? Going from a 160mm inlet to a 6" main duct is easier to wrap my head around, but the increase in static pressure, combined with my altitude, is a bit problematic.
?
I definitely don't want to run 8" main ducting, as I'm a one man operation, and all of my tools will constrict airflow enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain the right velocity in the main 8" duct without having extra gates open.
?
You didn¡¯t identify the extractor you are using, but if it¡¯s a Felder RL-series on 3-phase, the extractor impeller is running 20 percent faster than the design target due to the difference in 50 versus 60 hertz. ?Have you factored that into your thinking?
?
I did get a fan-curve for the RL-160 from Fergus Cooke at Felder Sacramento, but I guess I need to double check as to whether that's for 50 Hz or 60 Hz power.? I haven't yet settled on a specific collector.? I'm biased towards a euro-style negative pressure unit, and I'm looking at Felder, Al-Ko, Spaenex, and Hocker Polytechnic units.? Unfortunately, none of them sell high pressure dust collectors until you get into physically larger units than I need for my shop, so I may have to fall back to a American cyclone unit.? The Oneida folks sell a 5HP high vacuum SMART Boost system that is rated for 1000 CFM at ~18" WC, which would more than meet my needs.? The price is attractive compared to the Europeans, but the downside is a much higher noise level.? I'm pretty noise sensitive, so going that route will probably force me to think about building a containment closet for the collector, and baffled or duct silencers for the exhaust.
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-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
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Hello. I have a k 740 s for 1 year and we really have fun with it. Congratulations on a good choice. Especially the sliding table "X Roll" does a very good job. It is a great advantage to be able to fit a 400 mm blade. Precise cuts and enjoyable times await you. Enjoy. Greetings from Turkey.
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Phase Perfect Price Increase
The rumor is true that come the new year Phase Technologies are raising their prices and no they won't let you buy one now for delivery in six months when your shop is completed.? I figured how hard could it be?? I give them $13,000 now for a PT040 to be delivered in June.? But no they're having nothing to do with that idea.
Dave Davies
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Re: How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
Sounds correct. I have to remove mine as well for the full-size blades.?
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-- Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a Hammer
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Re: How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
On my C3, I always removed the ZCI before changing blades or scoring unit.
If you get a T-handle hex wrench, the T-handle mass spins the ZCI screws out pretty quickly; it doesn't take that long.
cheers, happy solstice...
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Re: How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
Jonny,
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My B3 is a 2021 unit. I can only guess/suppose that the available space for installing the blade is similar to that of your K3.?
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Even after rotating the scoring saw shield in the proper position, I cannot install my 315mm blade without removing the insert.?
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Although it is slightly annoying, removing the four screws that hold the insert in place is a better solution for me than testing my very limited patience. ?
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Regards,
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Jacques
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How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
My k3 is new to me, but it¡¯s a 2005 model that is in reasonable shape.?
A 315mm blade does go below the table height, just, but only by a few millimetres.?
Why is this a problem? If I have a Zero clearance insert on (the kind that closes up on both sides of blade), then I can¡¯t get the blade under the insert and onto the arbour. It¡¯s all just too tight.?
I can solve it a number of ways, but it helps a lot if I know what normal range is.
Cheers, -JS
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Congratulations Glen,?
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I just received my K740S a few weeks ago. I pretty much spec'd mined out as far as you can: DRO crosscut, DRO rip (although not motorised) and power drive height and tilt. I also chose the crosscut indexed angle adjustment with length comp and although some have mentioned that it can be cumbersome to move the heavier digital crosscut fence around to use this system, I don't find it too bad at all.?
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One of the main reasons for getting the DRO crosscut stops was actually not for the digital nature of the stop (although that's obviously great) but for the micro adjust that these stops have. I find this infinitely useful (almost necessary) so often.?
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I couldn't find a lot of feed back on the ?740 specifically. I spoke to another owner here in AU who recently got one and he seems happy with it. I haven't run a 400mm blade in mine yet. I guess they're largely the same as the K700s but it might be the same saw unit as the K540.?
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Looking forward to hearing how you go with yours.?
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Cheers
Michael?
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Hi,
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New to this group, but have been reading a lot of messages.
Mostly around Felder K700S and K740S.
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Just put down a deposit on a K740S today.
Kind of excited about it!
It is physically close by at the dealer but likely will not schedule until early Jan.?
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Will be benefiting from all your experiences - thank you - and will be reading thru a lot of the threads.
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Glen S.
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Jason, I know you have a KF the tilting spindle on it so if you have an analog reader for the tilting spindle then I¡¯d take the diameter divided by how many segments you wanna make and set the angle for that and then I think it¡¯s really important to use the beveled tongue and groove cutter so everything locates easily and you don¡¯t have to screw around with biscuits or festival 10 pieces. I have 2 1/2 inch wide with a small with a small bevel 1/4 by 1/4on it in the middle that would be more than happy to loan you. Get a couple chunks of high speed steel 60¡ã corrugation and grind up scallop. Quite easy to do and make a jig to hold each individual piece at a right angle to the spindle and with the appropriate angle on the guide to give you the taper you need some of that taper can be developed in the actual pieces also i.e. white at the bottom on then the top. If you¡¯d like, I can take a picture of the cutters. Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 20, 2024, at 5:27?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
? Jason, you have certainly piqued our interest with this project. I hope you share progress and solutions as you go!
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I would guess that the fins between each flute add considerable complexity and require even more accuracy in milling and aligning pieces. Getting all of those bits and pieces to line up and stay lined up during glue-up - oh my!
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Imran brought up the issue of accuracy of the bevels. I have never built a staved piece, but the issue of accurate bevels comes up for segmented bowls. The inner and the outer surfaces of a bowl blank are removed as the piece is turned, so the joints must be tight all through the thickness. We resolve this with a wedgie jig that lets us easily cut complementary angles on each end of each segment. The exact angle is not significant as long as mating ends are complementary. I have no idea if that is practical for staves.
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Good luck, and I hope your client appreciates you!
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Jason, you have certainly piqued our interest with this project. I hope you share progress and solutions as you go!
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I would guess that the fins between each flute add considerable complexity and require even more accuracy in milling and aligning pieces. Getting all of those bits and pieces to line up and stay lined up during glue-up - oh my!
?
Imran brought up the issue of accuracy of the bevels. I have never built a staved piece, but the issue of accurate bevels comes up for segmented bowls. The inner and the outer surfaces of a bowl blank are removed as the piece is turned, so the joints must be tight all through the thickness. We resolve this with a wedgie jig that lets us easily cut complementary angles on each end of each segment. The exact angle is not significant as long as mating ends are complementary. I have no idea if that is practical for staves.
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Good luck, and I hope your client appreciates you!
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John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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?Hi Jason,
I have tried gluing multiple segments several times and can¡¯t say that I have achieved perfect alignment ever. If all segments are perfectly aligned the last one always has a slight gap. This gap can be divided among all segments and glue does the rest. The gap is so small that it is impossible to make such slight adjustment. I have no ability to confirm any angle on the saw, other than 90 and 45, better than +/- 0.1 deg - assuming that I can trust the inclinometer specification.
For this reason, when I saw your project, I thought of how I could achieve perfect alignment. Since the bevel angle is not visible, the 90 deg cuts can be done without affecting the design.
I am sharing this more for my own knowledge. How do others achieve better results when working with many segments?
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On Dec 20, 2024, at 2:21?PM, Jason Holtz via groups.io <jholtzy@...> wrote: ? Thanks Imran,
When I have done staved construction for coopered things in the past, I always glue up whatever number of segments can easily be done with bar clamps before it gets squirrly and wants to collapse on itself. I then use dominos to index those assemblies and use a band clamp. Never had the occasion to go all the way around though.
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Apologies to the group
Great to hear from you all,?
I'm really glad you have found the video helpful. There are definitely things that could be improved upon with the design of this accessory, but i find this a workaround that gives me good results.?
Regards,
Bryce
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https://www.brycecomerwoodworks.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHdrRaAZd_pOa7wwbdNPUEw
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Michael Fortune used biscuits, stretch film, and clamps to glue the pedestal base in steps. I think Lamello Zeta P2 will absolutely shine in this glue-up.?  James On Fri, Dec 20, 2024 at 2:27?PM Airtight: Clamps by Air Compression via <airtightclamps= [email protected]> wrote:
I lay down on inside and use filament packing tape ?, flip over and glue ?tapered t g glue joints work best after glueing use band clamps to hold? Designing and building for 50 years ? Thanks Imran,
When I have done staved construction for coopered things in the past, I always glue up whatever number of segments can easily be done with bar clamps before it gets squirrly and wants to collapse on itself. I then use dominos to index those assemblies and use a band clamp. Never had the occasion to go all the way around though.
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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I lay down on inside and use filament packing tape ?, flip over and glue ?tapered t g glue joints work best after glueing use band clamps to hold? Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 20, 2024, at 1:21?PM, Jason Holtz via groups.io <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Thanks Imran,
When I have done staved construction for coopered things in the past, I always glue up whatever number of segments can easily be done with bar clamps before it gets squirrly and wants to collapse on itself. I then use dominos to index those assemblies and use a band clamp. Never had the occasion to go all the way around though.
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Thanks Imran,
When I have done staved construction for coopered things in the past, I always glue up whatever number of segments can easily be done with bar clamps before it gets squirrly and wants to collapse on itself. I then use dominos to index those assemblies and use a band clamp. Never had the occasion to go all the way around though.
--
Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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Re: Apologies to the group
I enjoyed the video and thought it was honest from someone who uses it to make a living. I'm thinking about adding that part to mine in the future and found it very helpful! Thanks for all the videos you post! I've watched them all several times.
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Hi Jason, funny you should ask no not a spoon maker in the early days. I did make a hell of a lot of cutting boards out of out of yellow birch shotgun blanks used to buy for $.10 apiece from a fish pole factory that made handle out of them , beautiful stuff. I still have the cutting boards we use today. My my sweetheart, Nancy was the spoon maker back in the early days in the 70s. She used to do the Renaissance fairs in the north and the south of California and her sister was a seamstress so some of the spoons picture are of her work and I think the balance of them are from a spoon maker in the lower Peloponnesus on the outside border of the small village in Ladagia Greece my wife¡¯s ancestral Village. Mac,,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 20, 2024, at 7:20?AM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Jason,
This would be a fun project. KRP described the basic plan. The only thought I have is whether it would help align things better if you glued the staves in qtr circles before gluing them together. This assumes that the number of total staves are a multiple of 4.
The 4 qtr should have 90 deg edges which can be trued with a simple jig given your dimensions. This should allow minor adjustments and should make the final glueup less stressful.
Just my $0.02
On Dec 20, 2024, at 8:01?AM, Jason Holtz via groups.io <jholtzy@...> wrote:
? Nice work Mac,
Did you carve all the spoons too? I enjoy making spoons, but my wrists and elbows do not like me doing so. Small doses it's okay.
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Saw a video on IG yesterday of guy doing bent laminations of veneers over a PVC pipe. That would be another potential way? to make scalloped staves and not have the coving operation. I could just make a slider jig to hold them for taper/beveling. Probably even more work that way though...
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Jason
J. Holtz Furniture
3307 Snelling Ave. South
Minneapolis, MN 55406
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imran
³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù
Bill Hope
Bryce Comer
Jason Holtz
Leemstradamus