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Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Your 160mm is 6.3" and if you went 7" it's only .700 bigger. Open the inlet sheet metal of the dust collector to match your pipe. Then you don't have any restriction to worry about... that's if your collector is set up for 160mm, you said you haven't decided what collector you are using, you might end up with something closer to 200mm, or at least larger than 7".
Brian Lamb blamb11@... lambtoolworks.com
On Sunday, December 22, 2024 at 12:24:30 AM MST, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote:
On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 06:10 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Hi Michael,
?
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
?
?
?
I'm fairly comfortable making the calculations.? But I don't know of a resource to guestimate the static pressure impact of reducing the ductwork diameter as you enter the collector.? I know of a few resources for ductwork fitting equivalent lengths, but everyone seems to assume that you're sucking air from the narrow side to the wide side, not the reverse.? My guess is that the static pressure impact of reducing the diameter is pretty high, depending only slightly on how quickly the transition is made.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
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Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Michael,
That is a fair point. I could have ventured an answer 20 yrs ago when I was researching but my memory is terrible and don¡¯t recall much of it at this time ?
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On Dec 22, 2024, at 2:24?AM, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote: ? On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 06:10 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Hi Michael,
?
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
?
?
?
I'm fairly comfortable making the calculations.? But I don't know of a resource to guestimate the static pressure impact of reducing the ductwork diameter as you enter the collector.? I know of a few resources for ductwork fitting equivalent lengths, but everyone seems to assume that you're sucking air from the narrow side to the wide side, not the reverse.? My guess is that the static pressure impact of reducing the diameter is pretty high, depending only slightly on how quickly the transition is made.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
|
If you are working with solid wood and are going to cut thick woods, it would be beneficial to get a blade of at least 350 mm. Remember that when you attach a 350 mm blade, it does not go down completely. It stays about 20 mm up. However, the 300 mm blade goes down completely. In this way, you can work at heights of approximately 0-95 mm in jobs such as opening channels (90?). (I will check this in the workshop and write it again.)
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Great to get responses from around the world.
Amazing how such distance people can share experiences.? I think I got close to what you have Michael, without the power lift/tilt.
I also liked the beefier fence and stops of the digital fence.? Would love to hear more about blades sizes.? I got the K740S rather than the K700S because that was available with the options I wanted.? I need to order a few saws and am debating the size to get.
I was leaning to 350mm so I can leave the scoring blade on.? I don't have much need for the depth of cut the 400mm provides.
?
Was unable to do a direct comparison of the saw units of the 700 vs 740 and no clear answer for the supplier.? Did they just move the scorer out a bit for the larger saw or make a new saw unit.
?
Glen S.
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Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
On Sat, Dec 21, 2024 at 06:10 PM, imranindiana wrote:
Hi Michael,
?
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
?
?
?
I'm fairly comfortable making the calculations.? But I don't know of a resource to guestimate the static pressure impact of reducing the ductwork diameter as you enter the collector.? I know of a few resources for ductwork fitting equivalent lengths, but everyone seems to assume that you're sucking air from the narrow side to the wide side, not the reverse.? My guess is that the static pressure impact of reducing the diameter is pretty high, depending only slightly on how quickly the transition is made.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
|
Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
 Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 21, 2024, at 9:46?PM, mac campshure via groups.io <mac512002@...> wrote:
? If you wanna make it very economical by tap on branches? They attach to the ?main screw it on or pop rivet. Designing and building for 50 years On Dec 21, 2024, at 8:10?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Michael,
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
| |
On Dec 21, 2024, at 8:25?PM, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote:
?
[Edited Message Follows]
Sounds like no one is using metric sized main ducts, which is sort of what I expected to hear.? I'm a little concerned about going from a 160mm inlet to a 7" duct (~175mm), as I don't know how to estimate what the impact of the constriction at the collector would be.? But perhaps that just means I should pay a professional company to do the math for me.? Going from a 160mm inlet to a 6" main duct is easier to wrap my head around, but the increase in static pressure, combined with my altitude, is a bit problematic.
?
I definitely don't want to run 8" main ducting, as I'm a one man operation, and all of my tools will constrict airflow enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain the right velocity in the main 8" duct without having extra gates open.
?
You didn¡¯t identify the extractor you are using, but if it¡¯s a Felder RL-series on 3-phase, the extractor impeller is running 20 percent faster than the design target due to the difference in 50 versus 60 hertz. ?Have you factored that into your thinking?
?
I did get a fan-curve for the RL-160 from Fergus Cooke at Felder Sacramento, but I guess I need to double check as to whether that's for 50 Hz or 60 Hz power.? I haven't yet settled on a specific collector.? I'm biased towards a euro-style negative pressure unit, and I'm looking at Felder, Al-Ko, Spaenex, and Hocker Polytechnic units.? Unfortunately, none of them sell high pressure dust collectors until you get into physically larger units than I need for my shop, so I may have to fall back to a American cyclone unit.? The Oneida folks sell a 5HP high vacuum SMART Boost system that is rated for 1000 CFM at ~18" WC, which would more than meet my needs.? The price is attractive compared to the Europeans, but the downside is a much higher noise level.? I'm pretty noise sensitive, so going that route will probably force me to think about building a containment closet for the collector, and baffled or duct silencers for the exhaust.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
If you wanna make it very economical by tap on branches? They attach to the ?main screw it on or pop rivet. Designing and building for 50 years
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 21, 2024, at 8:10?PM, imranindiana via groups.io <imranindiana@...> wrote:
? Hi Michael,
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
| |
On Dec 21, 2024, at 8:25?PM, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote:
?
[Edited Message Follows]
Sounds like no one is using metric sized main ducts, which is sort of what I expected to hear.? I'm a little concerned about going from a 160mm inlet to a 7" duct (~175mm), as I don't know how to estimate what the impact of the constriction at the collector would be.? But perhaps that just means I should pay a professional company to do the math for me.? Going from a 160mm inlet to a 6" main duct is easier to wrap my head around, but the increase in static pressure, combined with my altitude, is a bit problematic.
?
I definitely don't want to run 8" main ducting, as I'm a one man operation, and all of my tools will constrict airflow enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain the right velocity in the main 8" duct without having extra gates open.
?
You didn¡¯t identify the extractor you are using, but if it¡¯s a Felder RL-series on 3-phase, the extractor impeller is running 20 percent faster than the design target due to the difference in 50 versus 60 hertz. ?Have you factored that into your thinking?
?
I did get a fan-curve for the RL-160 from Fergus Cooke at Felder Sacramento, but I guess I need to double check as to whether that's for 50 Hz or 60 Hz power.? I haven't yet settled on a specific collector.? I'm biased towards a euro-style negative pressure unit, and I'm looking at Felder, Al-Ko, Spaenex, and Hocker Polytechnic units.? Unfortunately, none of them sell high pressure dust collectors until you get into physically larger units than I need for my shop, so I may have to fall back to a American cyclone unit.? The Oneida folks sell a 5HP high vacuum SMART Boost system that is rated for 1000 CFM at ~18" WC, which would more than meet my needs.? The price is attractive compared to the Europeans, but the downside is a much higher noise level.? I'm pretty noise sensitive, so going that route will probably force me to think about building a containment closet for the collector, and baffled or duct silencers for the exhaust.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Hi Michael,
Calculations for dust collector setup are not that complicated. Here is one place I looked at 20 yrs ago and they still have the info:
| |
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Dec 21, 2024, at 8:25?PM, Michael Wolf via groups.io <missingeggacct@...> wrote:
?
[Edited Message Follows]
Sounds like no one is using metric sized main ducts, which is sort of what I expected to hear.? I'm a little concerned about going from a 160mm inlet to a 7" duct (~175mm), as I don't know how to estimate what the impact of the constriction at the collector would be.? But perhaps that just means I should pay a professional company to do the math for me.? Going from a 160mm inlet to a 6" main duct is easier to wrap my head around, but the increase in static pressure, combined with my altitude, is a bit problematic.
?
I definitely don't want to run 8" main ducting, as I'm a one man operation, and all of my tools will constrict airflow enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain the right velocity in the main 8" duct without having extra gates open.
?
You didn¡¯t identify the extractor you are using, but if it¡¯s a Felder RL-series on 3-phase, the extractor impeller is running 20 percent faster than the design target due to the difference in 50 versus 60 hertz. ?Have you factored that into your thinking?
?
I did get a fan-curve for the RL-160 from Fergus Cooke at Felder Sacramento, but I guess I need to double check as to whether that's for 50 Hz or 60 Hz power.? I haven't yet settled on a specific collector.? I'm biased towards a euro-style negative pressure unit, and I'm looking at Felder, Al-Ko, Spaenex, and Hocker Polytechnic units.? Unfortunately, none of them sell high pressure dust collectors until you get into physically larger units than I need for my shop, so I may have to fall back to a American cyclone unit.? The Oneida folks sell a 5HP high vacuum SMART Boost system that is rated for 1000 CFM at ~18" WC, which would more than meet my needs.? The price is attractive compared to the Europeans, but the downside is a much higher noise level.? I'm pretty noise sensitive, so going that route will probably force me to think about building a containment closet for the collector, and baffled or duct silencers for the exhaust.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
Re: Phase Perfect Price Increase
I'm in a similar position, shopping for a workshop where the construction won't be done until ~May next year.? At least the Phase Perfect units aren't all that big, so getting a delivery now and throwing it in the back of a closet of a few months isn't that bad.? Not like trying to figure out where to stash a 10' slider...
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
|
Re: 160 mm dust collection ducting in the USA
Sounds like no one is using metric sized main ducts, which is sort of what I expected to hear.? I'm a little concerned about going from a 160mm inlet to a 7" duct (~175mm), as I don't know how to estimate what the impact of the constriction at the collector would be.? But perhaps that just means I should pay a professional company to do the math for me.? Going from a 160mm inlet to a 6" main duct is easier to wrap my head around, but the increase in static pressure, combined with my altitude, is a bit problematic.
?
I definitely don't want to run 8" main ducting, as I'm a one man operation, and all of my tools will constrict airflow enough that I wouldn't be able to maintain the right velocity in the main 8" duct without having extra gates open.
?
You didn¡¯t identify the extractor you are using, but if it¡¯s a Felder RL-series on 3-phase, the extractor impeller is running 20 percent faster than the design target due to the difference in 50 versus 60 hertz. ?Have you factored that into your thinking?
?
I did get a fan-curve for the RL-160 from Fergus Cooke at Felder Sacramento, but I guess I need to double check as to whether that's for 50 Hz or 60 Hz power.? I haven't yet settled on a specific collector.? I'm biased towards a euro-style negative pressure unit, and I'm looking at Felder, Al-Ko, Spaenex, and Hocker Polytechnic units.? Unfortunately, none of them sell high pressure dust collectors until you get into physically larger units than I need for my shop, so I may have to fall back to a American cyclone unit.? The Oneida folks sell a 5HP high vacuum SMART Boost system that is rated for 1000 CFM at ~18" WC, which would more than meet my needs.? The price is attractive compared to the Europeans, but the downside is a much higher noise level.? I'm pretty noise sensitive, so going that route will probably force me to think about building a containment closet for the collector, and baffled or duct silencers for the exhaust.
?
-Michael Wolf
Tahoe City, CA
|
Hello. I have a k 740 s for 1 year and we really have fun with it. Congratulations on a good choice. Especially the sliding table "X Roll" does a very good job. It is a great advantage to be able to fit a 400 mm blade. Precise cuts and enjoyable times await you. Enjoy. Greetings from Turkey.
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Phase Perfect Price Increase
The rumor is true that come the new year Phase Technologies are raising their prices and no they won't let you buy one now for delivery in six months when your shop is completed.? I figured how hard could it be?? I give them $13,000 now for a PT040 to be delivered in June.? But no they're having nothing to do with that idea.
Dave Davies
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Re: How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
Sounds correct. I have to remove mine as well for the full-size blades.?
--
-- Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with a Hammer
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Re: How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
On my C3, I always removed the ZCI before changing blades or scoring unit.
If you get a T-handle hex wrench, the T-handle mass spins the ZCI screws out pretty quickly; it doesn't take that long.
cheers, happy solstice...
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Re: How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
Jonny,
?
My B3 is a 2021 unit. I can only guess/suppose that the available space for installing the blade is similar to that of your K3.?
?
Even after rotating the scoring saw shield in the proper position, I cannot install my 315mm blade without removing the insert.?
?
Although it is slightly annoying, removing the four screws that hold the insert in place is a better solution for me than testing my very limited patience. ?
?
Regards,
?
Jacques
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How low does your hammer K3 blade go?
My k3 is new to me, but it¡¯s a 2005 model that is in reasonable shape.?
A 315mm blade does go below the table height, just, but only by a few millimetres.?
Why is this a problem? If I have a Zero clearance insert on (the kind that closes up on both sides of blade), then I can¡¯t get the blade under the insert and onto the arbour. It¡¯s all just too tight.?
I can solve it a number of ways, but it helps a lot if I know what normal range is.
Cheers, -JS
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Congratulations Glen,?
?
I just received my K740S a few weeks ago. I pretty much spec'd mined out as far as you can: DRO crosscut, DRO rip (although not motorised) and power drive height and tilt. I also chose the crosscut indexed angle adjustment with length comp and although some have mentioned that it can be cumbersome to move the heavier digital crosscut fence around to use this system, I don't find it too bad at all.?
?
One of the main reasons for getting the DRO crosscut stops was actually not for the digital nature of the stop (although that's obviously great) but for the micro adjust that these stops have. I find this infinitely useful (almost necessary) so often.?
?
I couldn't find a lot of feed back on the ?740 specifically. I spoke to another owner here in AU who recently got one and he seems happy with it. I haven't run a 400mm blade in mine yet. I guess they're largely the same as the K700s but it might be the same saw unit as the K540.?
?
Looking forward to hearing how you go with yours.?
?
Cheers
Michael?
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Hi,
?
New to this group, but have been reading a lot of messages.
Mostly around Felder K700S and K740S.
?
Just put down a deposit on a K740S today.
Kind of excited about it!
It is physically close by at the dealer but likely will not schedule until early Jan.?
?
Will be benefiting from all your experiences - thank you - and will be reading thru a lot of the threads.
?
Glen S.
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Jason, I know you have a KF the tilting spindle on it so if you have an analog reader for the tilting spindle then I¡¯d take the diameter divided by how many segments you wanna make and set the angle for that and then I think it¡¯s really important to use the beveled tongue and groove cutter so everything locates easily and you don¡¯t have to screw around with biscuits or festival 10 pieces. I have 2 1/2 inch wide with a small with a small bevel 1/4 by 1/4on it in the middle that would be more than happy to loan you. Get a couple chunks of high speed steel 60¡ã corrugation and grind up scallop. Quite easy to do and make a jig to hold each individual piece at a right angle to the spindle and with the appropriate angle on the guide to give you the taper you need some of that taper can be developed in the actual pieces also i.e. white at the bottom on then the top. If you¡¯d like, I can take a picture of the cutters. Mac,, Designing and building for 50 years
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On Dec 20, 2024, at 5:27?PM, John Hinman via groups.io <jhinman1911@...> wrote:
? Jason, you have certainly piqued our interest with this project. I hope you share progress and solutions as you go!
?
I would guess that the fins between each flute add considerable complexity and require even more accuracy in milling and aligning pieces. Getting all of those bits and pieces to line up and stay lined up during glue-up - oh my!
?
Imran brought up the issue of accuracy of the bevels. I have never built a staved piece, but the issue of accurate bevels comes up for segmented bowls. The inner and the outer surfaces of a bowl blank are removed as the piece is turned, so the joints must be tight all through the thickness. We resolve this with a wedgie jig that lets us easily cut complementary angles on each end of each segment. The exact angle is not significant as long as mating ends are complementary. I have no idea if that is practical for staves.
?
Good luck, and I hope your client appreciates you!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
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Jason, you have certainly piqued our interest with this project. I hope you share progress and solutions as you go!
?
I would guess that the fins between each flute add considerable complexity and require even more accuracy in milling and aligning pieces. Getting all of those bits and pieces to line up and stay lined up during glue-up - oh my!
?
Imran brought up the issue of accuracy of the bevels. I have never built a staved piece, but the issue of accurate bevels comes up for segmented bowls. The inner and the outer surfaces of a bowl blank are removed as the piece is turned, so the joints must be tight all through the thickness. We resolve this with a wedgie jig that lets us easily cut complementary angles on each end of each segment. The exact angle is not significant as long as mating ends are complementary. I have no idea if that is practical for staves.
?
Good luck, and I hope your client appreciates you!
--
John Hinman
Boise ID
Kappa 450X and A941
|
imran
³Ò¨¹°ù±ð°ù
Bill Hope