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Re: Selecting a dust collector


 

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Hi to a fellow engineer ?

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My saw has the riving knife hood which I heavily modified to increase airflow but it still doesn¡¯t get all the dust, especially if cutting a small amount off so the teeth are not fully buried in the wood.? I suspect the overarm guard would help as you can get more airflow.? I have a 6¡± duct to the saw which splits off to a 4¡± hard duct over the saw which connects to a 3¡± flex hose connected to my modified dust shroud.? The overhead duct branches off to a 5¡± duct to the saw which connects to the 120mm port on the side of the machine.

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I strongly recommend the Oneida Smart collectors but I am biased as this innovation was my idea and I worked with the founder of Oneida to commercialize it. ?I just shared the idea at a woodworking show and we communicated back and forth for about a year.? I don¡¯t have any financial interest in it but they did upgrade my system with a new fan motor and control system.

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Basically the more air a fan moves the higher the load on the motor.? Run a collector with no pipe and most motors will overheat in less than a minute.? When the inlet is clogged the motor spins faster and the sound pitch rises but the motor current is at it¡¯s lowest.? The idea was to use a VFD to automatically adjust the motor rpm to keep the current at like 95% of full load rated amps.? There is a max speed cap to keep the fan rpm under max rated current.? So when my collector which has a 7¡± inlet is connected to my wide belt sander with 7¡± duct it runs at 60hz and rated rpm.? When connected to a machine with a small actual machine port at the cutting location it speeds up until I hit 95% of FLA.? This resulted in about 2X more cfm on all machines with small ports.

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The first free step is to modify any machine you can to maximize the passage air flows through.

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Biil Pentz¡¯s stuff is accurate but sadly most people take too simple of conclusions away.? Bill started with 4¡± duct and found that cfm was much higher if you use 6¡±? So now people thing you should run 8¡± or larger mains and 6¡± drops to machines with tiny air passages.? The reality is that you need to maximize the port.? Then use Bill¡¯s spreadsheet to estimate the pressure you will have at that port, and then optimize the duct run to keep velocity over 3500 ft per min.? I¡¯ve used Bill¡¯ sheet to model my last shop and measured at every machine and his model is really good.

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From: [email protected] <[email protected]> On Behalf Of sjglaser1
Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2023 12:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [FOG] Selecting a dust collector

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Hi Joe,

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I am new to the forum and so appreciate the technical input. I am a severe asthmatic and? good/great? dust collection?is? of?paramount importance to me.? Also my wife hates the dust if it migrates from the shop to the house.

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Regarding your Felder KF700SP, does your 5 HP Oneida variable speed collector capture all the dust/fine particles from your Overarm and cabinet?

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I have a Felder K700S ordered with an ETA of April, 24 and had the same concern regarding the cabinet restriction? ~4" section.??

I may sell my 3 hp Laguna HEPA DC and upgrade to the Oneida.

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Any other recommendations?

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(I don't tell folks this but I too am a mechanical engineer- retired with? a PE license?in Alaska. Many engineers give us a bad?rep because some can behave like they know it all!? As you know the PE just means we "know stuff" and I learned long ago that you never know it all. Good engineers continually learn and help others to grow.)

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I value your input thanks.

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Scott Glaser

6627 Dolan Falls

Flower Mound, TX 76226

945-444-8066

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On Thu, Dec 28, 2023 at 10:33?AM Joe Jensen <joe@...> wrote:

The science of dust collection falls into the mechanical engineering field called fluid dynamics. As an engineer I studied fluid dynamics in college and sadly much of the ¡°wisdom¡± on the internet is incorrect. I have a white paper I wrote that I¡¯m happy to share with anyone who asks. The short version is this. The smallest opening the air much flow through and the suction pressure of the collector determine for the most part the actual CFM.? Big mains connected to a saw with a small opening inside under the blade will do little to increase the CFM. The way to increase CFM to McRae¡¯s suction pressure at the machine. Bigger duct does this but only to a point as low cfm in a big duct has effectively no resistance.?


I have an Oneida 5HP variable speed dust collector.? It automatically increases the suction when the cfm is low to maximize. I tested the cfm at each machine before and after the variable speed controller and I approximately doubled the CFM at each machine. My Felder KF700SP has a port on the side that is about 5¡±. But inside the machine the flex hose is about 4¡± and the cast iron part under the blade has an opening that¡¯s equivalent to about a 3¡± duct.? I can run 5¡± mains or 10¡± mains to the machine and get almost exactly the same CFM. The way to increase cfm is more suction pressure. The 5HP Oneida I use can go up to 25¡± water gauge suction. Non variable speed 5HP collectors are more like 14-15¡±.?

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