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Selecting a dust collector

 

I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.
 

Pierre,
? ? ? ? ? I considered the same thing for my C3-31 combination machine, N440 bandsaw and a Hammer belt sander. Previously I had a Felder AF14 which I truly hated for the reasons that you describe.
I was fairly set on a Laguna, but I couldn't get one locally here in Ireland, so it was hard to get an actual shipped price including taxes,etc.
I had read on here that the RL 160 was a better bet than a 125 or 140 as it moved around 3000 cu/ft/min. I had no clue to what any of this meant.
I happened to mention this to the local Felder dealer who is always keen to make a deal, and in the end I went for the FL160 in single phase ,as much as anything, I reckoned I would always get most of my cash back if it didn't work out.
There is no way to justify the size or the ?price in my case, but when you're heading to seventy, and no kids - what the hell.
As a hobbyist, it is the most serious bit of over kill that you could imagine, I don't like it, I love it. The shop is much cleaner, no more hassle with bags, but most of all I can't believe how quiet it is. No complaints from neighbours about noise. There was another additional 1k Euros for duct work.
Good luck.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland
 

I¡¯ve been eyeing that cf741, as an upgrade from my C3-41. Let us know how you get on with it!

As for dust collectors I went with Oneida V 3000 and I looked hard at the Harvey Gyro Air and the Felder 140. I avoided the Harvey because it¡¯s basically drop shipped from China, and I was worried about support.?

The Felder 140 was super interesting but I ultimately selected Oneida as they are made in the US and have a stellar reputation.?

I¡¯m glad I did.? Just a month in one of the engine mount bolts came loose and flew into the cyclone fan damaging the housing.?

A few calls into Oneida and they shipped me a brand new engine and housing. They explained that they¡¯ve had a few problematic bolts sourced from China.? As a result they¡¯ve done away with any outsourcing of bolts and gone with a domestic supplier.?

I found the footprint of the Oneida to be more to my liking over the Felder offering. Either unit should be adequate for your combo machine. ?


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 5:40?PM pierre.bourassa via <pierre.bourassa=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.

 

Salut Pierre, I have an Oneida cyclone at home, I¡¯ve had if for twenty years, works very well.

Felder also have an AF22 with a cartridge filter wit 13 square metres of filter material.

It¡¯s reasonably priced compared to the Oneida cyclones or Felder RL series.

Regards, Rod
 

I looked at all the options available. ?The Harvey G-700 is a very cool machine, but it wouldn¡¯t work in my shop space because the dust inlet is on the floor. ?In my situation, it¡¯s better to have the duct inlet up high. ? It came down to the 5HP cyclones from either Oneida or Clearvue. ?I ultimately went with the Clearvue Pentz EF-5 because of the inlet location. ? If you put both machines against the wall and run the main duct against the wall as well, the inlet on the Clearvue is on the left side, where the inlet on the Oneida is on the right side. ?In my limited space shop, the Clearvue was the only one I could fit in based on locations of machines, doors, electrical, etc. ?Of course, that part of the cyclone can be rotated for any direction, but then you have to deal with duct angles. ?Both are excellent products. ?

The other thing I did was to select a 3-phase motor not the cyclone and then drive it with a 5HP VFD. ?This allows me to turn down the motor speed to reduce noise when I use machines that don¡¯t need the max CFM. ?

The Felder dust extractors are very nice, but the inlet is also down low (though not as low as the G700). ?In my situation, I would not have space to run duct from low to high. ?Attached is a pic of the blue Clearvue in my shop that shows how the duct/machine arrangement is setup. ?Next is a pic of my friend¡¯s shop with the Oneida and a minimax combo machine.





-Aaron
 

Happy customer here of Clearvue. I have one of the older clear systems, the metal systems look very nice, but I kinda like watching the chips swirl. :-)


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:40?PM pierre.bourassa via <pierre.bourassa=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.

 

If you haven¡¯t already read Bill Pentz¡¯s information on dust collection, I would highly recommend it.? It¡¯s a wealth of information and should help guide you along?the way to proper dust collection.
?


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 8:42?PM Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
Happy customer here of Clearvue. I have one of the older clear systems, the metal systems look very nice, but I kinda like watching the chips swirl. :-)

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:40?PM pierre.bourassa via <pierre.bourassa=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

I have RL125 and a cyclone. The only feature I like about the RL125 is the bin with rollers. If a cyclone can be had with similar setup that would be my choice.

RL125 takes a lot of floor space compared to my cyclone that is mounted as high as possible in shop with 12¡¯ high ceiling. I have a 8¡± clear tube ~4¡¯ long between cyclone and the bin. I try to empty the bin before I see chips in the tube but that is my fail safe.

Imran Malik

On Dec 26, 2023, at 10:20 PM, John WI <jnadank@...> wrote:

?
If you haven¡¯t already read Bill Pentz¡¯s information on dust collection, I would highly recommend it.? It¡¯s a wealth of information and should help guide you along?the way to proper dust collection.
?


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 8:42?PM Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
Happy customer here of Clearvue. I have one of the older clear systems, the metal systems look very nice, but I kinda like watching the chips swirl. :-)

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:40?PM pierre.bourassa via <pierre.bourassa=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.

 

Salut Pierre,

I have a Clearvue in my hobbyist shop and I like its performance. As Aaron described below, the configuration works well for my work space (14x20) with 10 feet ceiling.

Please let me know if you wish to come have a look; I am located in the Ottawa/Gatineau area.

Regards,

Jacques
 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Oneida sells a 10¡± rotary airlock that fits some of their larger cyclone models. It drops collected dust and shavings into a bin of your choice. The bin can be a large trash can or rolling bin that can be dumped easily like a wheelbarrow.?

The rotary airlock sells for about $3200.?


Gil
Nashville?

On Dec 26, 2023, at 7:52?PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?I have RL125 and a cyclone. The only feature I like about the RL125 is the bin with rollers. If a cyclone can be had with similar setup that would be my choice.

RL125 takes a lot of floor space compared to my cyclone that is mounted as high as possible in shop with 12¡¯ high ceiling. I have a 8¡± clear tube ~4¡¯ long between cyclone and the bin. I try to empty the bin before I see chips in the tube but that is my fail safe.

Imran Malik

On Dec 26, 2023, at 10:20 PM, John WI <jnadank@...> wrote:

?
If you haven¡¯t already read Bill Pentz¡¯s information on dust collection, I would highly recommend it.? It¡¯s a wealth of information and should help guide you along?the way to proper dust collection.
?


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 8:42?PM Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
Happy customer here of Clearvue. I have one of the older clear systems, the metal systems look very nice, but I kinda like watching the chips swirl. :-)

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:40?PM pierre.bourassa via <pierre.bourassa=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.

 

I just made a rolling cart for the bin and put it under the cyclone. I have a magnetic coupler I made on the cnc to attach the hose from the bottom of the cyclone to the bin. When it¡¯s time to empty it, I just lift the magnet off the lid and wheel it outside. ?

On Wed, Dec 27, 2023 at 11:41?AM G Fuqua <gilfuqua@...> wrote:
Oneida sells a 10¡± rotary airlock that fits some of their larger cyclone models. It drops collected dust and shavings into a bin of your choice. The bin can be a large trash can or rolling bin that can be dumped easily like a wheelbarrow.?

The rotary airlock sells for about $3200.?


Gil
Nashville?

On Dec 26, 2023, at 7:52?PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:

?I have RL125 and a cyclone. The only feature I like about the RL125 is the bin with rollers. If a cyclone can be had with similar setup that would be my choice.

RL125 takes a lot of floor space compared to my cyclone that is mounted as high as possible in shop with 12¡¯ high ceiling. I have a 8¡± clear tube ~4¡¯ long between cyclone and the bin. I try to empty the bin before I see chips in the tube but that is my fail safe.

Imran Malik

On Dec 26, 2023, at 10:20 PM, John WI <jnadank@...> wrote:

?
If you haven¡¯t already read Bill Pentz¡¯s information on dust collection, I would highly recommend it.? It¡¯s a wealth of information and should help guide you along?the way to proper dust collection.
?


On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 8:42?PM Bob Wise <bob@...> wrote:
Happy customer here of Clearvue. I have one of the older clear systems, the metal systems look very nice, but I kinda like watching the chips swirl. :-)

On Tue, Dec 26, 2023 at 2:40?PM pierre.bourassa via <pierre.bourassa=[email protected]> wrote:
I'm just setting up my new workshop and after waiting almost a year, I finally got my CF741 delivered a month ago and installed last week. I have not done much with it, but I think I am overgrowing my old Delta 1HP dust collector - I filled the bag twice in a couple of days and it is a real pain to reinstall the bag after emptying it, it just drives me nuts trying to align the bag and install the clamp...

I have been eying the GyroAir 700 for quite a while now and I saw great reviews on YouTube. Out of curiosity, I started looking at the Felder dust collectors and the RL125 or RL140 seem like interesting options, but for almost double the price.?

Has anyone contemplated the same options and decided one way or the other, or should I look at something else. I live in Canada so my options are more aligned to what is offered in North America.

 

I also have the Oneida V-System 3000 cyclone and have been quite pleased with it. Included with it was a "Dust Sentry" which alerts you when the bin is full.

Similar to Andy above, there were issues with the fan coming loose which Oneida addressed quickly and without hesitation. They sent out a brand new fan wheel and steel housing (the original was plastic) for free with a return label to ship the old parts back for inspection. I would assume all new units will ship with the metal housing, but best to check with them. In either case, it has worked extremely well in my shop and doesn't take up too much footprint.

Steve

 

Another vote for Clearview.? I had a RL125 and sold it.? The footprint was large, it didn't pull enough suction and the ducting port was low.? I installed the clearview in an insulated enclosure because it's noisy (95db).? The noise level is around 65db now.? Run as big of a main line as you can to reduce drag.? I ran 7" ducting to the drops but probably should have ran 8".? A lot of noise comes from the outlet.? Insulated ducting on the outlet side helped to reduce noise.?

 

I have had an Oneida 3hp Super Dust Gorilla for the past 15 plus years.? It has been awesome and completely trouble free.? The suction is great and I added a dust bin sensor and a pressure gauge to monitor it.??

I am selling that too!? Not because I do not love it, but because the shop got bigger and I wanted to only do it once.

I highly recommend Oneida, great customer service and great products.? Now having said that, I would not buy ducting from them, they are not the best price out there.

PK

 

Hi Jacques. I am in Shefford QC, a bit far to come take a look, but maybe we could setup a quick facetime call if/when you have time.

 

Wow, super extensive. The more i read his stuff the more it convinces me that my setup need a big upgrade!

 

Thanks Aaron. How high yur ceiling need to be to accommodate it? My shop ceiling goes from 8 to 12 ft, but I planned to install the dust collector towards the back which is 8ft.

 

I got the clearvue max, I run 8" mains, 6" drops , 4" gates off the 6" drops. Works great.

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On Dec 28, 2023, at 6:38?AM, marty shultz <azmartys@...> wrote:

Another vote for Clearview.? I had a RL125 and sold it.? The footprint was large, it didn't pull enough suction and the ducting port was low.? I installed the clearview in an insulated enclosure because it's noisy (95db).? The noise level is around 65db now.? Run as big of a main line as you can to reduce drag.? I ran 7" ducting to the drops but probably should have ran 8".? A lot of noise comes from the outlet.? Insulated ducting on the outlet side helped to reduce noise.?

 

¿ªÔÆÌåÓý

Yes, Bill Pentz has done a tremendous amount of research in the field of dust collection and the Clearview cyclone design was based off of Bills Specs. Most of the dust collectors sold do not capture the small micron dust that is hazardous to your health. ?Some of Bills cyclone designs and ideas have been copied by other companies like Oneida. ?I¡¯ve spoken to him several times and he¡¯s been approached by several of the common dust collector manufacturers for advice but when it comes to paying any royalties or other money for his ideas, they¡¯re usually not interested in paying him. ?We mostly assume, as did I, that what¡¯s out on the market for dust collection, is designed correctly and the specs are accurate but I think Bill has proven this not to be the case with some manufacturers. ?I believe he¡¯s still reachable by telephone or email for advice. ?I usually make a small donation to his website for his time and advice.

On Dec 28, 2023, at 10:01?AM, pierre.bourassa via groups.io <pierre.bourassa@...> wrote:

?Wow, super extensive. The more i read his stuff the more it convinces me that my setup need a big upgrade!

 

The science of dust collection falls into the mechanical engineering field called fluid dynamics. As an engineer I studied fluid dynamics in college and sadly much of the ¡°wisdom¡± on the internet is incorrect. I have a white paper I wrote that I¡¯m happy to share with anyone who asks. The short version is this. The smallest opening the air much flow through and the suction pressure of the collector determine for the most part the actual CFM. ?Big mains connected to a saw with a small opening inside under the blade will do little to increase the CFM. The way to increase CFM to McRae¡¯s suction pressure at the machine. Bigger duct does this but only to a point as low cfm in a big duct has effectively no resistance.?


I have an Oneida 5HP variable speed dust collector. ?It automatically increases the suction when the cfm is low to maximize. I tested the cfm at each machine before and after the variable speed controller and I approximately doubled the CFM at each machine. My Felder KF700SP has a port on the side that is about 5¡±. But inside the machine the flex hose is about 4¡± and the cast iron part under the blade has an opening that¡¯s equivalent to about a 3¡± duct. ?I can run 5¡± mains or 10¡± mains to the machine and get almost exactly the same CFM. The way to increase cfm is more suction pressure. The 5HP Oneida I use can go up to 25¡± water gauge suction. Non variable speed 5HP collectors are more like 14-15¡±.?

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