Hi Chris,
Normally, the schematic shows exactly which 2 lines are connected to the transformer. However, this is not useful because we have heard of machines that were not wired according to the print (schematic). So to be sure, one has to confirm.
In your case, none of this info is shown in the schematic because the transformer, along with other critical parts, is located on the PCB. So we know that L1, L2, L3 are on the X1 connector of the PCB but no info is provided regarding the connections that are made on the PCB.
Rod¡¯s method is the least amount of effort to identify lines connected to the transformer. Alternatively, one will need to beep out the transformer connections to find out which pins of the electrical plug they are currently connected to.
If you want to go continuity check route, first take a good look at the transformer. It is soldered on the PCB. Likely, you will need to access the back side of the PCB and then you will need to distinguish input winding from output winding. Only input winding will beep to the line on the X1 connector.
I have tried to help other owners privately and some do not know how to use a multimeter. If you want to go this route it may be best to talk live. I am off next 3 days so should be able to make time. Just send me a private msg.
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On Jul 1, 2023, at 8:53 PM, chris connolly <connollyack@...> wrote:
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Thanks for the feedback guys. Imran, I¡¯m curious if you are able to determine the appropriate high leg position from looking at the schematic and if so, how.?
On Jul 1, 2023, at 3:10 PM, Joshua Tolve <joshuatolve@...> wrote:
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I can confirm the 2nd leg, I just completed the commissioning form for my saw shaper.?
Tolve construction
On Jul 1, 2023, at 12:19 PM, imranindiana <imranindiana@...> wrote:
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Hi Chris,
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I have an odd interest in Felder electrical schematics. The one you shared is very intriguing. I do not have exposure to older Felder schematics, so this one is new to me. More on this later, but I would follow Rod¡¯s direction to identify the 2 lines connected to the transformer. I checked Rod¡¯s suggestion against one schematic and it looks good. Basically, the way machine is wired only one pair will measure resistance, which is the resistance of the transformer input winding. A measurement on the 2 other pairings should be high resistance as you are measuring an open. If you measure resistance on more than 1 pair then I would not use this method. In that case, there are slightly more involved methods that could be utilized. BTW, I did not follow Rod¡¯s step 6, I think there is a word missing but I understand the concept, hopefully you do too.
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Now back to your schematic. Your machine uses a PCB mounted solution. I have seen pictures of a larger PCB in an older KF700 but this one is rather small. It is from Siemens and PN is C98 451-D6094-A1. It is obsolete but I found a German site that apparently offers repaired units.
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Read on if further details are of interest to you. There are 3 images on the site but one below is good for illustration. I have attached a marked up drawing of this board, identifying few components and transferring signal types to the connectors for ease in locating them.
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<image001.jpg>
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The 24 VAC transformer is on bottom left. Based upon other Felder schematics that I have looked at, here is what I believe are some key components. K1 and K4 (tall black blocks with white covers) are relays. Typically one is start relay that turns on momentarily and then drops off, the 2nd one is latched and drops off with red button or any interlock. 3 brick red coils (with a wire going thru the middle) are for current sensing, assuming for braking function. Two white blocks, identified on mark up as S1 & S2, are likely for adjusting brake force and duration.
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Imran Malik
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Thanks for that Rod. The Felder tech I spoke with yesterday told me that 99% of the time the manufactured leg will go to Line 2 on the machine (usually brown wire). I will try you method to verify. ?I have attached the wiring diagram from my F700 shaper, any chance you could explain how one might decipher where the manufactured ?leg should go based on the diagram? Thank you ?
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Hi, the issue is to determine which 2 phases the control power supplies for the machine are connected to, you want those two lines connected to the non manufactured line of the phase converter.
If you have a true digital phase converter (rectifier/inverter) then it doesn?€?t matter, if you have a rotary converter it does matter.
You can check the drawing for your machine however I normally use a DVM to verify it.
1) unplug the machine, or open the breaker in the distribution panel
2) using AC Volts on the meter verify that you have no power in the machine
3) close (Turn on) the disconnect switch for the machine
4) using Ohms function on the DVM measure Phase A to Phase B, Phase A to phase C, and Phase B to Phase C
5) only one of those pairs will have continuity, maybe 10 to 100 ohms, this pair is the one with the control power supplies, it must be fed from the non manufactured line
6) you now need to either one of the control power leads in the machine to the non manufactured phase or reverse one pair of phases in the machine plug (doesn?€?t matter which pair)
7) If your machine motor goes backwards after changing the plug above, interchange one pair of wires going to the motor to reverse rotation, it doesn?€?t matter which pair.
Regards, Rod
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<Siemens C98 451-D6094-A1 Mark up.JPG>
imran