Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Gary,
On the original vacuum advance units you adjust the amount of total vacuum advance the unit will provide by unscrewing the vacuum port (nipple) from the advance unit housing and changing the shim washers inside.? There is also a spring and a spacer sleeve inside.? If you go with the new style DD190 replacement that does not have the removeable vacuum port you adjust the total vacuum advance by inserting an allen/hex wrench inside the port and adjusting a stop screw inside the vacuum housing.
Our FE engines usually like between 40 and 44 degrees total advance which includes the 16 degrees initial you are running, the mechanical and full vacuum advance.? It would be nice to have your original unit in the car to see what the total advance was set to, but the vacuum leak may skew the true number.? ?The vacuum advance is more for drivability so adjust the replacement, be it by allen wrench or shims relative to the style of vacuum advance, until you are in that 40 to 44 degree total, all in, then listen for spark knock.? If it pulls nice without knocking you are good.? if you get some detonation, readjust the vacuum advance to reduce your total by a couple degrees at a time until the detonation is gone.
Regarding your previous post where you observed the timing retarding when you initially accelerated that usually indicates that the end play in the distributor shaft relative to the housing is a little loose.? When you accelerate the pressure on the distributor gear wants to lift the distributor shaft which causes the timing to retard.? You do need some end play.? I suggest shooting for .010 to .015 inches of end play.? To adjust that you to have to remove the roll pin through the drive gear of the distributor then pull the gear off the bottom of the shaft, install an appropriate shim the reinstall gear and roll pin.? Be sure to mark the orientation of the gear to the shaft relative to one side of the pin in case the hole through the gear is not drilled dead center, otherwise the hole for the pin may not be properly aligned and give you a fight as you reinstall the pin.
Good luck!
LLLLLoooooydddd? ??
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...>
To: [email protected] < [email protected]>
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2022 4:08 pm
Subject: Re: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Dave, I would like to answer your questions about the tune on my Cobra, but I decided to work on the timing a little more.? While doing that I discovered some things that did not seem right.? I decided to take the distributor apart to make sure everything is working correctly.? The mechanical advance mechanism looked good and I lubed it lightly to make sure it moves freely.? Upon reassembly, I checked the vacuum advance and it would move, but has a small leak.? It needs to be replaced.
My distributor is an Autolite C8OF-12127-J which appears to be equivalent to a Motorcraft C8OF-J.? ?The C8OF-J is listed as the stock distributor for my Cobra.? The Motorcraft distributor takes a C5AZ-12370-A? (DD-190) vacuum advance.? Photos show it looks the same as mine.? Do you or anyone know if this vacuum advance will work on my Autolite distributor or where I can get one for mine?
I am concerned that it may fit but will not be tuned for my engine.?
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 22, 2022, 01:22:11 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390@...> wrote:
Gary, To try and rule out detonationas a? possible heasitation cause, you could either dump a bottle of Octaine Boost in OR Add in some of that 110 Octaine Race gas IF you have it on hand and see what happens/IF any change or imovement. What is full timing advance at and at what? RPM does that happen? With the car in park do you get any of that hesitation with similar gas petal movement on the low end? Did you have this same hesitation issue before the timing and carb adjustments? You may need to revisit carb adjustment where the throttle plates are at in relation to the idle circuit outlet and when it transitions to the next circuit. As for your cam, from the looks of it, it looks quite a bit hotter than stock. From what I understand the 428 CJ/SCJ used the same cam as the S Code 390 GT. The cam I put in my 68 S code 390 GT is at least a level hotter than stock (Comp Xtreme Energy XE262H) and your cam is about a couple levels or so hotter than that. David from Western NY On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, 01:39:13 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Wow, this groups.io email system gets very confusing as it gets longer.? It is hard to find the latest messages.? At least it is on my computer. Dave, this in in reply to your message.? I have the timing set at 16 BTDC at 750 rpm with the vacuum disconnected.? That is?advanced?10 degrees more than factory spec.? Both vacuum and mechanical advance seem to be working well.? ?I don't have the vacuum retard, only advance. One thing I notice though is the timing drops a little when stepping on the accelerator pedal from idle with the vacuum hooked up. My gas is fresh 91 octane with about 10% of 110 octane race fuel (with lead).? It is stock compression ratio and I think it is spec'd at 10.6:1.? I don't hear any detonation but the exhaust is pretty noisy so it could be hidden. My cam is a Crower 280HDP.? I understand it just a little better performing than the stock CJ cam.? The transmission is a stock C6 automatic with the R code servo.? I am pretty sure the torque converter is stock.? I know it is pretty tight because it pulls the rpm down a lot with a jump when I put it in gear. Pete,? I went through all that when I rebuilt the carb in 2006.? I have those nice blue gasket and a set of vacuum secondary springs as well as a few sizes of primary jets.? I don't have the book but I communicated with a guy in San Diego that was a Holley guru.? I can't find him any more though. I think he retired.? One thing I never did get into was the different options for the accelerator pump.? The carb worked well without changing anything there, so I just left the accelerator pump as it was.? I may take a look at that now. Gary in SoCal On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 09:21:33 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390= [email protected]> wrote: Good to hear it is running better. What is the timing set to right now? (FEs like their timing) Is the vacuum advance working correctly and is the distributer advance plate and weights working smoothly and without sticking or binding? How fresh is the gas in the tank and how much is left over from last season/year? What Octane gas are you running and what is the current compression ratio? Are you getting any detonation? What cam are you running? Is this an auto or manual trans car? David from WNY On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that. The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it. Gary in SoCal On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman < gary.wittman@...> wrote: I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted. I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well. Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive. Wish me luck.? I miss driving it. Gary in SoCal On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer < torinoman1@...> wrote: Let us know if you find the problem On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level. My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed.. I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent. I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly. Gary in SoCal On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W < fords65273@...> wrote: When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace the power valve. Steve From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be. Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that. I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is. Gary in SoCal
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Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
A C8OF-J distributor is a C8OF-J distributor, whether it is labeled Autolite or Motorcraft. (The 12127 part says "This is a distributor".) Autolite/Motorcraft went through a rebranding exercise in the early 70s. It is not unusual to get a NOS Motorcraft box from this period and find an Autolite part inside. The Autolite labeling would be correct for the C8OF-J distributor that came with the car. A couple of years later, the over the counter replacement might be labeled Motorcraft. (Or maybe still Autolite, depending on what was available.) At 04:08 PM 5/23/2022, Gary Wittman via groups.io wrote: Dave, I would like to answer your questions about the tune on my Cobra, but I decided to work on the timing a little more. While doing that I discovered some things that did not seem right. I decided to take the distributor apart to make sure everything is working correctly. The mechanical advance mechanism looked good and I lubed it lightly to make sure it moves freely. Upon reassembly, I checked the vacuum advance and it would move, but has a small leak. It needs to be replaced.
My distributor is an Autolite C8OF-12127-J which appears to be equivalent to a Motorcraft C8OF-J. The C8OF-J is listed as the stock distributor for my Cobra. The Motorcraft distributor takes a C5AZ-12370-A (DD-190) vacuum advance. Photos show it looks the same as mine. Do you or anyone know if this vacuum advance will work on my Autolite distributor or where I can get one for mine?
I am concerned that it may fit but will not be tuned for my engine.
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 22, 2022, 01:22:11 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390@...> wrote:
Gary,
To try and rule out detonationas a possible heasitation cause, you could either dump a bottle of Octaine Boost in OR Add in some of that 110 Octaine Race gas IF you have it on hand and see what happens/IF any change or imovement.
What is full timing advance at and at what RPM does that happen?
With the car in park do you get any of that hesitation with similar gas petal movement on the low end?
Did you have this same hesitation issue before the timing and carb adjustments?
You may need to revisit carb adjustment where the throttle plates are at in relation to the idle circuit outlet and when it transitions to the next circuit.
As for your cam, from the looks of it, it looks quite a bit hotter than stock. From what I understand the 428 CJ/SCJ used the same cam as the S Code 390 GT. The cam I put in my 68 S code 390 GT is at least a level hotter than stock (Comp Xtreme Energy XE262H) and your cam is about a couple levels or so hotter than that.
David from Western NY
On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, 01:39:13 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman=<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Wow, this groups.io email system gets very confusing as it gets longer. It is hard to find the latest messages. At least it is on my computer.
Dave, this in in reply to your message. I have the timing set at 16 BTDC at 750 rpm with the vacuum disconnected. That is advanced 10 degrees more than factory spec. Both vacuum and mechanical advance seem to be working well. `?? I don't have the vacuum retard, only advance. One thing I notice though is the timing drops a little when stepping on the accelerator pedal from idle with the vacuum hooked up.
My gas is fresh 91 octane with about 10% of 110 octane race fuel (with lead). It is stock compression ratio and I think it is spec'd at 10.6:1. I don't hear any detonation but the exhaust is pretty noisy so it could be hidden.
My cam is a Crower 280HDP. I understand it just a little better performing than the stock CJ cam. The transmission is a stock C6 automatic with the R code servo. I am pretty sure the torque converter is stock. I know it is pretty tight because it pulls the rpm down a lot with a jump when I put it in gear.
Pete, I went through all that when I rebuilt the carb in 2006. I have those nice blue gasket and a set of vacuum secondary springs as well as a few sizes of primary jets. I don't have the book but I communicated with a guy in San Diego that was a Holley guru. I can't find him any more though. I think he retired. One thing I never did get into was the different options for the accelerator pump. The carb worked well without changing anything there, so I just left the accelerator pump as it was. I may take a look at that now.
Gary in SoCal
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 09:21:33 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390=<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Good to hear it is running better.
What is the timing set to right now? (FEs like their timing)
Is the vacuum advance working correctly and is the distributer advance plate and weights working smoothly and without sticking or binding?
How fresh is the gas in the tank and how much is left over from last season/year?
What Octane gas are you running and what is the current compression ratio?
Are you getting any detonation?
What cam are you running?
Is this an auto or manual trans car?
David from WNY
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman=<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Well my drive went great. It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005. It is pulling strong too. I may have advanced the timing a little too much. When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating. I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that.
The engine did like the extra timing on WOT. The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it.
Gary in SoCal
On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <<mailto:gary.wittman@...>gary.wittman@...> wrote:
I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block. I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly. Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right. I set the exposed portion of the`?? slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width). I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct. I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again. It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal. It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little. It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much. When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew. It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle. The idle adjustment is done with the secondary. That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off. The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position. That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench. It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach. I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive.
Wish me luck. I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <<mailto:torinoman1@...>torinoman1@...> wrote:
Let us know if you find the problem
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman=<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions. I already checked the fuel level in the bowl. Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle. I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit. Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent. Then blow out all the passages. I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <<mailto:fords65273@...>fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.
Steve
From: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman=<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected] <<mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]>
Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well. When I start it cold, it fires up fine. When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly. It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it. This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running. This tells me it is running lean. I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none. I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher. It sounds healthy when I do that. If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies. There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary hor`?? n and other is behind the the secondary horn. They are both angled at the top. I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before. There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it. I can even feel some small droplets coming out. I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog. I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
----------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Scheers, Applied Synergy, Inc. Voice: 817-237-3360 Internet: chris@... Fax: 817-237-3074
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Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Dave, I would like to answer your questions about the tune on my Cobra, but I decided to work on the timing a little more.? While doing that I discovered some things that did not seem right.? I decided to take the distributor apart to make sure everything is working correctly.? The mechanical advance mechanism looked good and I lubed it lightly to make sure it moves freely.? Upon reassembly, I checked the vacuum advance and it would move, but has a small leak.? It needs to be replaced.
My distributor is an Autolite C8OF-12127-J which appears to be equivalent to a Motorcraft C8OF-J.? ?The C8OF-J is listed as the stock distributor for my Cobra.? The Motorcraft distributor takes a C5AZ-12370-A? (DD-190) vacuum advance.? Photos show it looks the same as mine.? Do you or anyone know if this vacuum advance will work on my Autolite distributor or where I can get one for mine?
I am concerned that it may fit but will not be tuned for my engine.? Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 22, 2022, 01:22:11 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390@...> wrote:
Gary, To try and rule out detonationas a? possible heasitation cause, you could either dump a bottle of Octaine Boost in OR Add in some of that 110 Octaine Race gas IF you have it on hand and see what happens/IF any change or imovement. What is full timing advance at and at what? RPM does that happen? With the car in park do you get any of that hesitation with similar gas petal movement on the low end? Did you have this same hesitation issue before the timing and carb adjustments? You may need to revisit carb adjustment where the throttle plates are at in relation to the idle circuit outlet and when it transitions to the next circuit. As for your cam, from the looks of it, it looks quite a bit hotter than stock. From what I understand the 428 CJ/SCJ used the same cam as the S Code 390 GT. The cam I put in my 68 S code 390 GT is at least a level hotter than stock (Comp Xtreme Energy XE262H) and your cam is about a couple levels or so hotter than that. David from Western NY On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, 01:39:13 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Wow, this groups.io email system gets very confusing as it gets longer.? It is hard to find the latest messages.? At least it is on my computer. Dave, this in in reply to your message.? I have the timing set at 16 BTDC at 750 rpm with the vacuum disconnected.? That is?advanced?10 degrees more than factory spec.? Both vacuum and mechanical advance seem to be working well.? ?I don't have the vacuum retard, only advance. One thing I notice though is the timing drops a little when stepping on the accelerator pedal from idle with the vacuum hooked up. My gas is fresh 91 octane with about 10% of 110 octane race fuel (with lead).? It is stock compression ratio and I think it is spec'd at 10.6:1.? I don't hear any detonation but the exhaust is pretty noisy so it could be hidden. My cam is a Crower 280HDP.? I understand it just a little better performing than the stock CJ cam.? The transmission is a stock C6 automatic with the R code servo.? I am pretty sure the torque converter is stock.? I know it is pretty tight because it pulls the rpm down a lot with a jump when I put it in gear. Pete,? I went through all that when I rebuilt the carb in 2006.? I have those nice blue gasket and a set of vacuum secondary springs as well as a few sizes of primary jets.? I don't have the book but I communicated with a guy in San Diego that was a Holley guru.? I can't find him any more though. I think he retired.? One thing I never did get into was the different options for the accelerator pump.? The carb worked well without changing anything there, so I just left the accelerator pump as it was.? I may take a look at that now. Gary in SoCal On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 09:21:33 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390= [email protected]> wrote: Good to hear it is running better. What is the timing set to right now? (FEs like their timing) Is the vacuum advance working correctly and is the distributer advance plate and weights working smoothly and without sticking or binding? How fresh is the gas in the tank and how much is left over from last season/year? What Octane gas are you running and what is the current compression ratio? Are you getting any detonation? What cam are you running? Is this an auto or manual trans car? David from WNY On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that. The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it. Gary in SoCal On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman < gary.wittman@...> wrote: I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted. I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well. Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive. Wish me luck.? I miss driving it. Gary in SoCal On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer < torinoman1@...> wrote: Let us know if you find the problem
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level. My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed.. I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent. I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly. Gary in SoCal On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W < fords65273@...> wrote: When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace the power valve. Steve From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be. Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that. I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is. Gary in SoCal
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Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Gary,
To try and rule out detonationas a possible heasitation cause, you could either dump a bottle of Octaine Boost in OR Add in some of that 110 Octaine Race gas IF you have it on hand and see what happens/IF any change or imovement.
What is full timing advance at and at what RPM does that happen?
With the car in park do you get any of that hesitation with similar gas petal movement on the low end?
Did you have this same hesitation issue before the timing and carb adjustments?
You may need to revisit carb adjustment where the throttle plates are at in relation to the idle circuit outlet and when it transitions to the next circuit.
As for your cam, from the looks of it, it looks quite a bit hotter than stock. From what I understand the 428 CJ/SCJ used the same cam as the S Code 390 GT. The cam I put in my 68 S code 390 GT is at least a level hotter than stock (Comp Xtreme Energy XE262H) and your cam is about a couple levels or so hotter than that.
David from Western NY
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On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, 01:39:13 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Wow, this groups.io email system gets very confusing as it gets longer.? It is hard to find the latest messages.? At least it is on my computer. Dave, this in in reply to your message.? I have the timing set at 16 BTDC at 750 rpm with the vacuum disconnected.? That is?advanced?10 degrees more than factory spec.? Both vacuum and mechanical advance seem to be working well.? ?I don't have the vacuum retard, only advance. One thing I notice though is the timing drops a little when stepping on the accelerator pedal from idle with the vacuum hooked up. My gas is fresh 91 octane with about 10% of 110 octane race fuel (with lead).? It is stock compression ratio and I think it is spec'd at 10.6:1.? I don't hear any detonation but the exhaust is pretty noisy so it could be hidden. My cam is a Crower 280HDP.? I understand it just a little better performing than the stock CJ cam.? The transmission is a stock C6 automatic with the R code servo.? I am pretty sure the torque converter is stock.? I know it is pretty tight because it pulls the rpm down a lot with a jump when I put it in gear. Pete,? I went through all that when I rebuilt the carb in 2006.? I have those nice blue gasket and a set of vacuum secondary springs as well as a few sizes of primary jets.? I don't have the book but I communicated with a guy in San Diego that was a Holley guru.? I can't find him any more though. I think he retired.? One thing I never did get into was the different options for the accelerator pump.? The carb worked well without changing anything there, so I just left the accelerator pump as it was.? I may take a look at that now. Gary in SoCal On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 09:21:33 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390@...> wrote: Good to hear it is running better. What is the timing set to right now? (FEs like their timing) Is the vacuum advance working correctly and is the distributer advance plate and weights working smoothly and without sticking or binding? How fresh is the gas in the tank and how much is left over from last season/year? What Octane gas are you running and what is the current compression ratio? Are you getting any detonation? What cam are you running? Is this an auto or manual trans car? David from WNY On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that. The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it. Gary in SoCal On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote: I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted. I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well. Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive. Wish me luck.? I miss driving it. Gary in SoCal On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote: Let us know if you find the problem On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level. My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed.. I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent. I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly. Gary in SoCal On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote: When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace the power valve. Steve From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be. Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that. I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is. Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Wow, this groups.io email system gets very confusing as it gets longer.? It is hard to find the latest messages.? At least it is on my computer.
Dave, this in in reply to your message.? I have the timing set at 16 BTDC at 750 rpm with the vacuum disconnected.? That is?advanced?10 degrees more than factory spec.? Both vacuum and mechanical advance seem to be working well.? ?I don't have the vacuum retard, only advance. One thing I notice though is the timing drops a little when stepping on the accelerator pedal from idle with the vacuum hooked up.
My gas is fresh 91 octane with about 10% of 110 octane race fuel (with lead).? It is stock compression ratio and I think it is spec'd at 10.6:1.? I don't hear any detonation but the exhaust is pretty noisy so it could be hidden.
My cam is a Crower 280HDP.? I understand it just a little better performing than the stock CJ cam.? The transmission is a stock C6 automatic with the R code servo.? I am pretty sure the torque converter is stock.? I know it is pretty tight because it pulls the rpm down a lot with a jump when I put it in gear.
Pete,? I went through all that when I rebuilt the carb in 2006.? I have those nice blue gasket and a set of vacuum secondary springs as well as a few sizes of primary jets.? I don't have the book but I communicated with a guy in San Diego that was a Holley guru.? I can't find him any more though. I think he retired.? One thing I never did get into was the different options for the accelerator pump.? The carb worked well without changing anything there, so I just left the accelerator pump as it was.? I may take a look at that now.
Gary in SoCal
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 09:21:33 PM PDT, D. Hadley via groups.io <dhadley390@...> wrote:
Good to hear it is running better. What is the timing set to right now? (FEs like their timing) Is the vacuum advance working correctly and is the distributer advance plate and weights working smoothly and without sticking or binding? How fresh is the gas in the tank and how much is left over from last season/year? What Octane gas are you running and what is the current compression ratio? Are you getting any detonation? What cam are you running? Is this an auto or manual trans car? David from WNY On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that. The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it. Gary in SoCal On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman < gary.wittman@...> wrote: I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted. I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well. Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive. Wish me luck.? I miss driving it. Gary in SoCal On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer < torinoman1@...> wrote: Let us know if you find the problem
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> wrote: Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level. My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed.. I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent. I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly. Gary in SoCal On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W < fords65273@...> wrote: When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace the power valve. Steve From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman= [email protected]> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be. Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that. I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is. Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Dave,
Yes we did.
Pete
.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2022-05-17 9:38 p.m., D. Hadley via groups.io wrote: Thanks Peter, should be seeing a full reply before you get this. The problem was yahoo forcing crap fantacyfootball/sports cookies slowing down my tablet and in my constantly rejecting them my last screen press ended up being read by the send button before I was able to even type anything.
David from WNY
On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, 12:13:41 AM EDT, Peter Mahaits <astro@...> wrote:
Dave,
Your reply was empty.
Pete from the Loops
.
On 2022-05-17 9:08 p.m., D. Hadley via groups.io wrote:
? On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
? Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that.
The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it.
Gary in SoCal
? On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
? I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive.
Wish me luck.? I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
? On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote:
? Let us know if you find the problem
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
? Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal
? On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
? the power valve.
Steve
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
? power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
? it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
? on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
? coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Thanks Peter, should be seeing a full reply before you get this. The problem was yahoo forcing crap fantacyfootball/sports cookies slowing down my tablet and in my constantly rejecting them my last screen press ended up being read by the send button before I was able to even type anything.
David from WNY
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Wednesday, May 18, 2022, 12:13:41 AM EDT, Peter Mahaits <astro@...> wrote: Dave, Your reply was empty. Pete from the Loops . On 2022-05-17 9:08 p.m., D. Hadley via groups.io wrote:
? On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
? Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that.
The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it.
Gary in SoCal
? On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
? I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive.
Wish me luck.? I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
? On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote:
? Let us know if you find the problem
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
? Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal
? On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
? the power valve.
Steve
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
? power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
? it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
? on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
? coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Gary,
I'm glad things are working out for you.
I highly recommend the Holley book. Peterson Publishing?
It covers carbs of all types as a general educational background.
When I did the 735 of my CJ, I found the info in that book to be
most educational.
I really was interested in the effect(s), of different air cleaner
bases.
To that end I had a tach hooked up, CJ up to operating temperature,
check revs,
put huge air cleaner base on the carb, no filter, just the base, the
idle revs went UP.
It's all about air flow.
I took the list number from the front of the air horn on the carb
and ordered a Holley
kit for it. Well, wow, what nice gaskets, you could use them 2 or 3
times during a
tweeking process. I also got the set of vacuum secondary springs.
They are color
coded and go from soft to hard.
A soft spring will have your secondaries activating early after you
have floored it.
A harder spring will wail a while before the secondaries are allowed
to start opening.
What fun dialing it in. The vacuum pot will come off the carb while
leaving the carb, "in situ".
The 1969 Shop Manual also covers the carb, but, the Holley book is
almost a must INMHO.
Cheerio,
Pete from the Loops
.
On 2022-05-17 4:36 p.m., Gary Wittman
via groups.io wrote:
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Well my drive went great.? It
is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.?
It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a
little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves
but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I
will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe
that.??
The engine did like the extra
timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all
the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to
about 20 mph before flooring it.
Gary in SoCal
I took the carb off and disassemble the
front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle
for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I
checked out the primary transition slot and found it
was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the
slot with the butterflies in idle position to what
is called square (height = width).? I then blew out
all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then
reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle
was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of
the secondary carb to compensate for closing down
the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the
bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was
right were it should be. I then set the choke with a
couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired
right up and I waited to see what happened as it
warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed
up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the
timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow
because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too
much.? When I was doing some research on the
Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I
never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary
throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the
transition slot and not to use it for adjusting
idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the
secondary.? That is very difficult because that
adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb
off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had
to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the
secondary idle position.? That requires removing
that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works
but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should
get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out
for a drive.
Wish me luck.? I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT,
William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...>
wrote:
Let us know if you find the problem?
?
Thanks Linc and Steve
for your suggestions.? I already
checked the fuel level in the bowl.?
Replacing the power valve was the
first thing I did after checking the
fuel level.
My problem is not
excessive fuel, it is too lean at
idle.? I can get it to near idle if
I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has
something to do with the idle
circuit.? Possibly, partially
clogged, but I don't know how that
would cause the fog coming out of
the vent.?
I think I will go ahead
a take the carb off and try to
figure out what would cause the fog
in the vent.? Then blow out all the
passages.? I will also make sure the
idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal?
When I have signs of
excessive fuel in a Holley
carb, I always check two
things. First is the float
level. If the needle and
seat are stuck open, or the
float is sunken, fuel will
flow out the sight plug
(with the engine running).
The second thing I do is
replace the power valve.?
Steve
I am dealing with a
Holley carburetor that won't
idle after more than 15
years of working very well.?
When I start it cold, it
fires up fine.? When the
choke starts to open up the
engine begins to run
poorly.? It has an electric
choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the
choke partially closed and
the engine keeps running.?
This tells me it is running
lean.? I have checked for
vacuum leaks and have found
none.? I have some ideas of
what it could be but before
I take the carburetor off
and take it apart, I wanted
to see if any of you have an
idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can
de-choke it and it will run
well if I keep the rpm at
1300 or higher.? It sounds
healthy when I do that.? If
I try to lower the rpm, the
rpm begins to drop and
engine slowly dies.? There
are two vent tubes that
stick straight up on top of
the carb. One is in front of
the primary horn and other
is behind the the secondary
horn.? They are both angled
at the top.? ?I don't know
their function but the front
one is doing something I
have never seen before.?
There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can
even feel some small
droplets coming out.? I am
pretty sure that has
something to do with the
problem, but I don't know
what would cause it to do
that.
I plan to take the carb
apart and try to trace the
galley to see if I can
figure out what is casing
the fog.? I am hoping
somebody already knows what
it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Good to hear it is running better.
What is the timing set to right now? (FEs like their timing)
Is the vacuum advance working correctly and is the distributer advance plate and weights working smoothly and without sticking or binding?
How fresh is the gas in the tank and how much is left over from last season/year?
What Octane gas are you running and what is the current compression ratio?
Are you getting any detonation?
What cam are you running?
Is this an auto or manual trans car?
David from WNY
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that. The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it. Gary in SoCal On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote: I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted. I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well. Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive. Wish me luck.? I miss driving it. Gary in SoCal On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote: Let us know if you find the problem On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level. My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed.. I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent. I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly. Gary in SoCal On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote: When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace the power valve. Steve From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be. Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that. I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is. Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Dave,
Your reply was empty.
Pete from the Loops
.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On 2022-05-17 9:08 p.m., D. Hadley via groups.io wrote:
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that.
The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it.
Gary in SoCal
On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive.
Wish me luck.? I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote:
Let us know if you find the problem
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.
Steve
From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM
To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
On Tuesday, May 17, 2022, 07:36:32 PM EDT, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that. The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it. Gary in SoCal On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote: I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted. I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well. Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive. Wish me luck.? I miss driving it. Gary in SoCal On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote: Let us know if you find the problem On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote: Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level. My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed.. I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent. I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly. Gary in SoCal On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote: When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace the power valve. Steve From: [email protected] < [email protected]> on behalf of Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 4:39 PM To: [email protected] < [email protected]> Subject: [fairlaneregistry] 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be. Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that. I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is. Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Well my drive went great.? It is idling better than it ever has since I bought it in 2005.? It is pulling strong too.? I may have advanced the timing a little too much.? When I take off easy from a stop. it moves but feels like it hesitates a little before accelerating.? I will play with the timing a little to see if I can fixe that.??
The engine did like the extra timing on WOT.? The rear tires were trying to break loose all the way through first gear, and that was after I got up to about 20 mph before flooring it.
Gary in SoCal
On Monday, May 16, 2022, 09:18:54 AM PDT, Gary Wittman <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive.
Wish me luck.? I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote:
Let us know if you find the problem?
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.?
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal?
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.?
Steve
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
I took the carb off and disassemble the front bowl and metering block.? I found the baffle for the vent was not installed properly.? Then I checked out the primary transition slot and found it was not set right.? I set the exposed portion of the slot with the butterflies in idle position to what is called square (height = width).? I then blew out all the passages with carb cleaner and air. Then reassemble everything making sure the vent baffle was correct.? I had to adjust the idle position of the secondary carb to compensate for closing down the primary to get the transition slot adjusted.
I cranked the starter to fill up the bowls and checked the fuel level again.? It was right were it should be. I then set the choke with a couple pumps of the accelerator pedal.? It fired right up and I waited to see what happened as it warmed up..It did start to get rough as it warmed up, but I adjusted the idle needles and advanced the timing a little.? It now idles at 800 rpm very well.
Unfortunately, 800 rpm idle is too slow because when I put it in gear the rpm drops too much.? When I was doing some research on the Internet I discovered something about Holley carbs I never knew.? It is advised to adjust the primary throttle stop screw to set the adjustment for the transition slot and not to use it for adjusting idle.? The idle adjustment is done with the secondary.? That is very difficult because that adjustment screw is only accessible with the carb off.? The set screw on mine is also frozen so I had to bend the secondary stop lever to adjust the secondary idle position.? That requires removing that lever then using a vice and wrench.? It works but is a kind of hit and miss approach.? I should get it right today and finally get it my Cobra out for a drive.
Wish me luck.? I miss driving it.
Gary in SoCal
On Sunday, May 15, 2022, 06:57:11 PM PDT, William Sweitzer <torinoman1@...> wrote:
Let us know if you find the problem?
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.?
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal?
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.?
Steve
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Let us know if you find the problem?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.?
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal?
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.?
Steve
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Sort of sounds like the float might be bad.
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On May 14, 2022, at 10:48 PM, Gary Wittman via groups.io <gary.wittman@...> wrote:
?
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.?
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal?
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.?
Steve
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
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Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Thanks Linc and Steve for your suggestions.? I already checked the fuel level in the bowl.? Replacing the power valve was the first thing I did after checking the fuel level.
My problem is not excessive fuel, it is too lean at idle.? I can get it to near idle if I hold the choke partially closed..
I think it has something to do with the idle circuit.? Possibly, partially clogged, but I don't know how that would cause the fog coming out of the vent.?
I think I will go ahead a take the carb off and try to figure out what would cause the fog in the vent.? Then blow out all the passages.? I will also make sure the idle slots are exposed properly.
Gary in SoCal?
On Saturday, May 14, 2022, 06:50:00 PM PDT, Steve W <fords65273@...> wrote:
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.?
Steve
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
When I have signs of excessive fuel in a Holley carb, I always check two things. First is the float level. If the needle and seat are stuck open, or the float is sunken, fuel will flow out the sight plug (with the engine running). The second thing I do is replace
the power valve.?
Steve
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I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off
power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take
it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up
on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist
coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Re: 428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
Hey there Cary,
Look down the throat and see if you see dripping down the venturies. I think that you need to look at your air bleeds, and then check your float levels and then your float fuel seats.
When it gets really bad, I have seen fuel come out the vent tubes. --
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I am Linc..... What more could you possibly need to know?
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On Sat, 2022-05-14 at 16:39 -0700, Gary Wittman via groups.io wrote: I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
428 CJ 735 cfm carburetor
I am dealing with a Holley carburetor that won't idle after more than 15 years of working very well.? When I start it cold, it fires up fine.? When the choke starts to open up the engine begins to run poorly.? It has an electric choke and I can turn off power to it.? This keeps the choke partially closed and the engine keeps running.? This tells me it is running lean.? I have checked for vacuum leaks and have found none.? I have some ideas of what it could be but before I take the carburetor off and take it apart, I wanted to see if any of you have an idea of what it can be.?
Once it is warned up, I can de-choke it and it will run well if I keep the rpm at 1300 or higher.? It sounds healthy when I do that.? If I try to lower the rpm, the rpm begins to drop and engine slowly dies.? There are two vent tubes that stick straight up on top of the carb. One is in front of the primary horn and other is behind the the secondary horn.? They are both angled at the top.? ?I don't know their function but the front one is doing something I have never seen before.? There is kind of a fog/mist coming out of it.? I can even feel some small droplets coming out.? I am pretty sure that has something to do with the problem, but I don't know what would cause it to do that.
I plan to take the carb apart and try to trace the galley to see if I can figure out what is casing the fog.? I am hoping somebody already knows what it is.
Gary in SoCal
|
Hey there Jay,
Did you ever talk to Marty Burke about what you are doing? Even if it was to just get an opinion on it. He did run the fastest NA 428 in the Country for several years. He also does Cryogenics on blocks to improve structural integrity.
If my facts about Marty are off, it is because he just about walks on water for me. lulz
Just a thought --
============================================================
I am Linc..... What more could you possibly need to know?
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On Fri, 2022-05-13 at 07:56 -0400, jay Rush wrote: Dave, we have not discussed ultra sonic testing yet, but this is a top quality shop and I told him to do what should be done that I am not pinching pennies. We are doing all cylinders with same brand pistons that were in it but also reducing compression, crank boring I think they call it, stock cam. Basically he is blue printing the short block.?
Jay,
That is a bummer about the delay & damage. Unless there is bad core shift you should be able to go next full size over, 0.040". This provided the cylinder will clean up at that point.
Has the shop done any Ultrasonic testing on the block? Or will they be doing so? Can they even do it? This will tell them and you how much IF any core shift there is and how much/thick the cylinder? walls are on that damaged cylinder AND the rest of the block. This way they and you know how far the block/each cylinder can safely bored to BEFORE having to be sleeved now and in the future. This would be an added cost but give both peace of mind AND know how many rebuilds/how far over bore can be done in the future. This report you can keep with all the rebuild and re-rebuild paperwork to be kept with all the car's? (even the restoration )..documentation
Are your pistons off the shelf parts OR are they custom made ones?
Next, see IF you can get 0.040" over pistons in the same type as your current 0.030" over ones (IF off the shelf parts) and check with the machine shop to see IF they think that cylinder will clean up at 0.040" over. IF the 0.030"over pistons that are? in it are custom ones, then there should be no issues getting a one off piston 0.035", 0.040", 0.045" and so on, to what ever size would get it to where it JUST cleans up the damage in that cylinder wall.
So you now have a few more things to ask the machine shop before they start on machining it.
Are you having them just repair that one cylinder OR is it going through another full blueprinting and full rebuild? IF it were me I would try for just fixing that one damaged cylinder and do as little reworking and boring as possible. This would hopefully stave off very expensive sleeving of the? block as long as possible. I don't know how much sleeving costs have? gone up, but the last time I checked into it (at least maybe 10 to 15 years ago) it was $100 a hole plus parts.
David from WNY
On Friday, April 29, 2022, 06:56:07 AM EDT, jay Rush <jrush69gt@...> wrote:
?Nothing new, just backlog, and maybe I am not pushing hard enough.? He says it's in the process now and he knows I want to take it to York in July. He is only doing the short block, but one of cylinders that had the broken rings may need sleeved as the block was already 30 over.
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 7:39 PM LLLLllllloooyyydd via <heintz58=[email protected]> wrote:
Jay,What's the latest hold up with the machine shop?
Lllloooyydd
-------- Original message --------From: jay Rush <jrush69gt@...> Date: 4/28/22 3:58 PM (GMT-06:00) To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [fairlaneregistry] 428
Yeah, mine would be a lot happier if I could get it out of the machine shop.Jay
On Thu, Apr 28, 2022, 12:30 PM kampenout1 via <kampenout1=[email protected]> wrote:
Happy Cobra Jet day(s) everybody.
Greg in beautiful N.O.
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LLLLllllloooyyydd
Linc