Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
This is good information. Keep in mind that it is generic and oversimplified. Mostly true for batteries in general, but not so true for specific cases. It's a bit like describing "cars" in general; but not specifically Fords, Toyotas, or VW vans. Lee -- There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Bernie Johnsen wrote: I'm planning to use two identical group 27 12v marine batteries I already own. These obviously work, and you already have them (so $0). You can expect 3-5 years life unless something goes wrong (run dead, or a bad charger). Marine/RV batteries aren't the best performers, but they're relatively cheap and easy to find. When it comes to the design and installation of the second second battery box and venting, should I be looking for a sealed battery box, and then a hose and flange to connect the second battery box to the stock battery box so that all venting?goes through the?existing battery vent?? I intend to drill holes for the connecting cables and then seal around them. I'd put them in a plastic box with a lid, and run a vent hose from inside the box to the outside. The vent hose can be small; 1/4" is plenty. If they're AGMs, venting is much less critical. But I'd still put them in a box with a vent, just in case something goes wrong someday. These are the parts I'm now considering for the box and venting:
These will work. 1-3/4" hose is overkill, but it won't hurt. Remember that hydrogen is lighter than air, so it goes UP. If you route your hose down and out through the floor, the hydrogen will look for some higher-up way out -- like a loose lid on the box or hole for the wires. But if your vent hose runs up and out, the hydrogen will take that route. Even if the lid is loose, air will go *into* it, instead of hydrogen out. Here are some guidelines that might help on lead-acid batteries. <> Lee -- There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Steve via groups.io wrote: There are pros and cons with any battery chemistry but both sides of the equation can be overstated or misapplied/misrepresented, so you really do want to check multiple sources and be well informed. Do some research on the new options and check out experiences of real world users who can show you working rigs with the chemistry that they are discussing before you make any purchase and you will not have to regret an uninformed decision - whichever direction turns out to be the best fit for you. I agree; this is good advice. Check out Will Prouse on youtube. Thanks for the youtube video links. I took a look. I'm afraid these fall into the "advertising" and "popular science" category. Entertainment and opinions, with selective use of the facts to bolster it. For instance, they use words like "very dangerous" and "very safe" with no data to back it up. This is equivalent to saying "gasoline is very dangerous, very flammable, and a lot more likely to explode". That's true; but the NUMBERS tell us that a billion cars use gasoline every day; yet poisonings, fires, and explosions are still so rare that we hardly give it any thought. It only makes the news in the rare event that it *does* happen. Then they steer into a commercial for Battleborn batteries. Now, I don't know of Battleborn batteries are any good or not. All I have is their OPINION on the matter. What you want to find is actual hard data. I know, I know... who has time for that? So people generally look for the most "popular" answer, without regard to where it comes from. I have been using these Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries, (NOT the lithium polymer type found in portable devices!)? for several years in my van's house system and they work very very well. I could not return to lead/acid without a significant loss in functionality in several directions. I agree; the data shows that Lithium Iron Phosphate is safer than Lithium Cobalt or Lithium Manganese. But "safer" means they burn like kindling wood, instead of like matches. If either type catches on fire, they burn ferociously and can't easily be put out. To be clear, I'm not prejudiced against lithium batteries. I use Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries myself in my electric car. (Mine are CALB brand). They are indeed lighter, and store about twice the energy of the lead-acid AGMs I previously had in it. But I have tested them myself, and though they are good, they do NOT meet the manufacturer's claims. I can also tell that their life isn't as good as claimed. I measure about a 30% loss of capacity after 5 years -- good, but not great. Lead-acids have their disadvantages, but they don't burn. They're full of water, after all. And as for lead-acids "exploding", that's a loaded word, chosen to inspire emotion and fear. A pop can will "explode" if you shake it up and drop it; but that's not really an "explosion". Serious abuse can blow the top off a lead-acid battery, but that's not really an "explosion", either. Lee Hart -- There is a computer disease that anybody who works with computers knows about. It's very serious, and interferes completely with your work. The trouble with computers is that you 'play' with them! (Richard Feynman) -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
From: Helge Pedersen Lots of good information here and I am still trying to understand what is
going on with the needs to vent a AGM battery or not. If a AGM battery
really needs to be vented does it have to have outside ventilation or are
the gases emitted harmless enough to have airflow to the inside of the
van? Here are a 2 pictures of a AGM battery that was in the 1999 Eurovan camper
I bought last summer and the 3rd picture is what I replaced this battery
with. The blue AGM looked like it could explode any minute, rather impressed
that it kept it all together. Wow; that battery got SERIOUSLY hot! My guess is that your charger severely overcharged and overheated it, causing it to swell up like a balloon. An AGM is nominally "sealed". It's kind of like a bottle of pop before you open it; you can turn it any which way, and even put something on top of it, and it won't leak. There are two ways to make a battery swell up like yours. One is to run it *completely dead* and then freeze it. The electrolyte in a dead battery is plain water, so it can freeze. When it freezes, it swells up slightly. (I don't think this happened in your case; the swelling is too severe.) The other way is to SERIOUSLY overcharge and overheat the battery. Overcharging breaks down the water inside into gas (hydrogen and oxygen). If this continues long enough, the gas pressure builds up inside, and "pops open" the safety vents. You can overcharge any battery by simply leaving a cheap or defective charger on it indefinitely. The battery will eventually vent, so you want to mount it in such a way that there is SOME way for the gases to escape. All it takes is a little hose from the vent to the outside. Or, put the battery in a plastic box, and vent this box outside with a little hose. Your battery swelled up as well. This happens when the charger runs WILD, and mindlessly charges at high current indefinitely. Or, it happens when the battery is defective, and has a shorted cell (which converts a 12v battery into a 10v battery). A stupid charger won't notice, and will blindly charge what it thinks is a dead battery forever. This not only build up pressure inside, but also HEAT. It can literally boil the electrolyte inside. The vents can't handle the amount of gas and steam, and the hot plastic case becomes so soft that the battery swells up like a balloon. This is what I think happened to your battery. Since this van was already set up for use with AGM battery with a custom
install of a AC to DC charger that is also a inverter and a solar charger... I would check the charger. Measure its voltage with a good meter. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... DON'T TRUST the advertising to tell you what a charger is doing! Measure it yourself. A MAJORITY of chargers I've tested do not do what they claim to do! changing to Lithium would add on the extra cost of updating to be compatible
with Lithium charging from AC and solar. Thanks for all links and info, still
confused, but that is part of the process. Helge Pedersen Not necessarily. Some replacement lithiums have internal BMS (Battery Management Systems) that make them behave like lead-acids. By rights, ALL lithiums should have a BMS. Going without one is like eliminating all the fuses and circuit breakers in your house. Everything works fine when there are no problems. But if something ever goes wrong (and it will, sooner or later), then your HOUSE BURNS DOWN! What worries me is that many lithiums being sold either have NO BMS, or have a fake BMS that doesn't really work. Everything is fine, until the day that something goes wrong. Then, like the house with no fuses, you have a FIRE on your hands! Lee Hart -- Excellence does not require perfection. -- Henry James -- Lee A. Hart
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Lots of good information here and I am still trying to understand what is going on with the needs to vent a AGM battery or not. If a AGM battery really needs to be vented does it have to have outside ventilation or are the gases emitted harmless enough to have airflow to the inside of the van? Here are a 2 pictures of a AGM battery that was in the 1999 Eurovan camper I bought last summer and the 3rd picture is what I replaced this battery with. The blue AGM looked like it could explode any minute, rather impressed that it kept it all together. As far as I could see either of these batteries have any vent. ? Since this van was already set up for use with AGM battery with a custom install of a AC to DC charger that is also a inverter and a solar charger changing to Lithium would add on the extra cost of updating to be compatible with Lithium charging from AC and solar. ? Thanks for all links and info, still confused, but that is part of the process. ? Helge Pedersen
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
I suggest that you some research yourself on the newer types of batteries.? Check out Will Prouse on youtube.? ?He's thorough and has extensive experience with the various panels, batteries and assorted related devices used in RV/van systems.? ?There are also many other RV'ers who now have years of field experience with the Lithium Iron Phospate batteries.? While there are a few reliable sources (Victron comes to mind) most RVers in the US are now working with one reliable brand??-?Dragonfly/Battleborn -?built out by a Reno based company.? ?Their product is very well made, has a great deal of built in"headroom" (100% of rated amps available to use) and comes with a long guarantee that they honor.? ?They are also just good folks.
?I have been using these Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries,? ?(NOT the lithium polymer type found in portable devices !)? for several years in my van's house system and they work very very well.? I could not return to lead/acid without a significant loss in functionality in several directions.? ? ?
There are pros and cons with any battery chemistry but both sides of the equation can be overstated or misapplied/misrepresented,? so you really do want to check multiple sources and be well informed.? ?Do some research on the new options and check out experiences of real world users who can show you working rigs with the chemistry that they are discussing?before you make any purchase?and you will not have to regret an uninformed decision - whichever direction turns out to be the best fit for you.
cheers, Steve?
Due to my own research and experienced, I'm biased.? That said, here's some links.??
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Give this idea a try. I was able to place a second auxiliary battery behind the existing battery. No need to relocate original battery holder box.
You will need to rotate the 2nd battery sideways to get it to fit. I was able to put a group 31 battery in that position then wire it parallel the other. Get one of those black plastic battery boxes with a lid. Place the black box in first. Then drop in the new battery.
It is kind of a tight fit, you will need to angle it a little to get it in.
Andrew
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
On Mar 1, 2021, at 11:38 AM, Helge Pedersen <helge@...> wrote:
Why not just use AGM battery and forget all about venting plus they can lay on the side as I have done with mine. Perhaps I am missing something here, but all of the venting issues seems like a dealbreaker to me. AGMs are an interesting option: * same size & weight of a Flooded Lead Acid battery * better venting requirements (but not zero, depending on your risk tolerance, see below) * price and longevity somewhere between FLA and LFP batteries See "Electrical Myths, Part 4: AGM Batteries Don¡¯t Need Venting"
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Helge,
If I was starting from?scratch I'd probably go with two AGMs.? However I already own the two lead acid batteries so I intend to use them for now.? I'd still need a box (I think) and cables to run any second battery.? So, the only thing extra here is a hose and flange and how to run the vent.? Seems pretty easy to do, I just want to make sure the existing venting with two batteries is sufficient.??
On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 12:38 PM Helge Pedersen < helge@...> wrote: Why not just use AGM battery and forget all about venting plus they can lay on the side as I have done with mine. Perhaps I am missing something here, but all of the venting issues seems like a dealbreaker to me. ? Thanks Lee.? I was hoping you'd chime in.? I am probably just as ill informed as the average consumer and look to people, like yourself and others here, to help distill down all the information.? Your answer was very?helpful regarding the?batteries themselves.
In this case I'm planning to use two identical group 27 12v marine batteries I already own.? One in the existing stock coach battery box, the other in a new second box mounted directly behind the back seat and directly next to the existing coach battery.? It will just be separated by the plastic cabinet wall and the plastic battery box before I make the venting and cable hole modifications.
When it comes to the design and installation of the second second battery box and venting, should I be looking for a sealed battery box, and then a hose and flange to connect the second battery box to the stock battery box so that all venting?goes through the?existing battery vent?? I intend to drill holes for the connecting cables and then seal around them.?
These are the parts I'm now considering for the box and venting:
? ? On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 11:41 AM Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote: Michael Diehr wrote:
> Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric
> acid vapor (toxic, corrosive).? Ventilation is required.
>
> Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more
> expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures
> below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly
> superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One
> Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require
> any ventilation, etc.
Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly,
that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids.
But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy
storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium
or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more.
Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can
easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very
difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery
until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire!
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they
won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're
worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid.
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade
lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter
what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone;
they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years.
If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting,
marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v
golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big
commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I
have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and
still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid
replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle
battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10
years, so the quality is far better.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence
and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good
"bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart
attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery
salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they
fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a
battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's
tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is
"equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're
starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That
amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type
of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an
car engine... once.
Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start
the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern
cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless
entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have
even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to
handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle
is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long
time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged
this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." --
Elon Musk
"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery,
it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
I was hoping Lee would chime in. :-) See my anti-rant replies below: On Mar 1, 2021, at 10:41 AM, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
Michael Diehr wrote:
Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric acid vapor (toxic, corrosive). Ventilation is required.
Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? They are much more expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. One Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require any ventilation, etc. Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly, that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids. But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more. Disagree. Lithiums are advertised and rated on their true capacity (e.g. a 100AH lithium battery delivers an honest 100AH, at a 1C rate). Lead Acids are rated on some voodoo number (typically a 1/20th C rate of very low current) *and* every time you discharge a lead acid battery below 50% (or allow it to sit below 100% charge) you are killing it. Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire! There are multiple Lithium battery chemistries, and this burning issue is really not a problem with LFP (Lithium Ferrous Phosphate chemistry, aka "LiFePo" or sometimes "Iron Phosphate"). LFP batteries are some of the safest around and (in my opinion) safer than Lead Acids by far. Example: LFPs all come with BMS (battery management systems) which will cut off the charge (or discharge) current if the battery SOC (state of charge) is too high or low. Lead acid batteries do not, and will overcharge (venting hydrogen and sulfuric acid) or undercharge (causing self damage).
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios.
They can explode. Hydrogen gas is no joke. If you're worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid. True, AGM are better, but I believe these can also vent when seriously abused (e.g. if you have a malfunctioning charger)
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter what the ads claim).
Agree, that paying bottom dollar is not wise, for any technology. Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone; they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years. Again, different kind of "lithium" - laptop batteries are "Lithium Ion" not LFP. Lithium Ion batteries are used because they are energy dense (great for lightweight laptops) not because they are safe. They aren't very safe. LFP are different - not as energy dense, but much much safer. Also, they have some of the best longevity around. One major brand has a 3000-5000 cycle estimated life - and at that point, they say the battery still has 75% capacity! They could be lying, of course, but the sorts of stats are not unheard of for LFP batteries. If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting, marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I managed to go through 3 sets of 6V golf cart batteries in 10 years, and I'm not a dummy when it comes to this stuff. Keeping Lead Acids happy is not easy. I have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10 years, so the quality is far better. This was true a few years ago, but LFP drop-in 12V batteries are quite good now.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good "bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
True, but note: this *only* applies to lead acid batteries.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is "equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an car engine... once.
Not true - LFP batteries are *not* rated for use as starting batteries. They can deliver 100A to 200A easily, but that's not enough for a starting battery. Use LFP for house, and lead acid for starting battery. Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads. This is true, but misleading. If I leave my Eurovan Camper off shore power, the LFP battery will discharge and stop powering the house electronics. True. But when I come back to it and plug it in, the LFP battery will charge quickly back up to 100% and be 100% healthy. Do this with your lead acid house battery and you've damaged it quite severely.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." -- Elon Musk
Did you know model 3s are now being built with LFP batteries? Almost like he knows his stuff ;-) "The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery, it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Why not just use AGM battery and forget all about venting plus they can lay on the side as I have done with mine. Perhaps I am missing something here, but all of the venting issues seems like a dealbreaker to me. ? Thanks Lee.? I was hoping you'd chime in.? I am probably just as ill informed as the average consumer and look to people, like yourself and others here, to help distill down all the information.? Your answer was very?helpful regarding the?batteries themselves.
In this case I'm planning to use two identical group 27 12v marine batteries I already own.? One in the existing stock coach battery box, the other in a new second box mounted directly behind the back seat and directly next to the existing coach battery.? It will just be separated by the plastic cabinet wall and the plastic battery box before I make the venting and cable hole modifications.
When it comes to the design and installation of the second second battery box and venting, should I be looking for a sealed battery box, and then a hose and flange to connect the second battery box to the stock battery box so that all venting?goes through the?existing battery vent?? I intend to drill holes for the connecting cables and then seal around them.?
These are the parts I'm now considering for the box and venting:
? ?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 11:41 AM Lee Hart < leeahart@...> wrote: Michael Diehr wrote:
> Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric
> acid vapor (toxic, corrosive).? Ventilation is required.
>
> Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more
> expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures
> below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly
> superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One
> Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require
> any ventilation, etc.
Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly,
that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids.
But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy
storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium
or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more.
Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can
easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very
difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery
until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire!
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they
won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're
worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid.
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade
lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter
what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone;
they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years.
If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting,
marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v
golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big
commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I
have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and
still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid
replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle
battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10
years, so the quality is far better.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence
and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good
"bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart
attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery
salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they
fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a
battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's
tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is
"equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're
starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That
amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type
of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an
car engine... once.
Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start
the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern
cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless
entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have
even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to
handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle
is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long
time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged
this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." --
Elon Musk
"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery,
it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
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Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 12:32 PM coastielfs < lfsiegle@...> wrote:
Lee Hart,
Great rant.
How might I get educated on batteries?
Grumpy Old Fred
On Monday, March 1, 2021, 10:41:58 AM PST, Lee Hart < leeahart@...> wrote:
Michael Diehr wrote:
> Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric
> acid vapor (toxic, corrosive).? Ventilation is required.
>
> Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more
> expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures
> below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly
> superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One
> Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require
> any ventilation, etc.
Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly,
that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids.
But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy
storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium
or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more.
Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can
easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very
difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery
until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire!
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they
won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're
worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid.
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade
lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter
what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone;
they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years.
If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting,
marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v
golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big
commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I
have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and
still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid
replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle
battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10
years, so the quality is far better.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence
and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good
"bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart
attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery
salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they
fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a
battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's
tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is
"equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're
starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That
amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type
of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an
car engine... once.
Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start
the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern
cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless
entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have
even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to
handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle
is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long
time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged
this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." --
Elon Musk
"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery,
it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Lee Hart,
Great rant.
How might I get educated on batteries?
Grumpy Old Fred
On Monday, March 1, 2021, 10:41:58 AM PST, Lee Hart < leeahart@...> wrote:
Michael Diehr wrote:
> Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric
> acid vapor (toxic, corrosive).? Ventilation is required.
>
> Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more
> expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures
> below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly
> superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One
> Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require
> any ventilation, etc.
Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly,
that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids.
But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy
storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium
or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more.
Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can
easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very
difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery
until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire!
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they
won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're
worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid.
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade
lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter
what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone;
they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years.
If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting,
marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v
golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big
commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I
have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and
still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid
replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle
battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10
years, so the quality is far better.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence
and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good
"bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart
attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery
salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they
fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a
battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's
tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is
"equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're
starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That
amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type
of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an
car engine... once.
Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start
the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern
cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless
entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have
even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to
handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle
is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long
time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged
this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." --
Elon Musk
"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery,
it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Thanks Lee.? I was hoping you'd chime in.? I am probably just as ill informed as the average consumer and look to people, like yourself and others here, to help distill down all the information.? Your answer was very?helpful regarding the?batteries themselves. In this case I'm planning to use two identical group 27 12v marine batteries I already own.? One in the existing stock coach battery box, the other in a new second box mounted directly behind the back seat and directly next to the existing coach battery.? It will just be separated by the plastic cabinet wall and the plastic battery box before I make the venting and cable hole modifications. When it comes to the design and installation of the second second battery box and venting, should I be looking for a sealed battery box, and then a hose and flange to connect the second battery box to the stock battery box so that all venting?goes through the?existing battery vent?? I intend to drill holes for the connecting cables and then seal around them.? These are the parts I'm now considering for the box and venting: ?
Thanks!
On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 11:41 AM Lee Hart < leeahart@...> wrote: Michael Diehr wrote:
> Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric
> acid vapor (toxic, corrosive).? Ventilation is required.
>
> Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more
> expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures
> below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly
> superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One
> Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require
> any ventilation, etc.
Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly,
that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids.
But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy
storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium
or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more.
Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can
easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very
difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery
until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire!
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they
won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're
worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid.
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade
lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter
what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone;
they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years.
If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting,
marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v
golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big
commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I
have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and
still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid
replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle
battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10
years, so the quality is far better.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence
and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good
"bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart
attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery
salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they
fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a
battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's
tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is
"equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're
starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That
amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type
of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an
car engine... once.
Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start
the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern
cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless
entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have
even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to
handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle
is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long
time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged
this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." --
Elon Musk
"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery,
it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Lee Hart,
Great rant.
How might I get educated on batteries?
Grumpy Old Fred
On Monday, March 1, 2021, 10:41:58 AM PST, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
Michael Diehr wrote:
> Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric
> acid vapor (toxic, corrosive). ?Ventilation is required.
>
> Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more
> expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures
> below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly
> superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One
> Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require
> any ventilation, etc.
Time for my battery rant. :-)
In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly,
that's true for lead-acids as well.
Energy storage:
Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids.
But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy
storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium
or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more.
Safety:
Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can
easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very
difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery
until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire!
Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they
won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're
worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid.
Life:
The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade
lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter
what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone;
they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years.
If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting,
marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v
golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big
commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I
have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and
still have more than half their original capacity.
If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid
replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle
battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10
years, so the quality is far better.
Abuse:
Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence
and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good
"bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart
attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged.
Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery
salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they
fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a
battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's
tales say.
It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is
"equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're
starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That
amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type
of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an
car engine... once.
Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start
the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern
cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless
entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have
even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to
handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle
is not driven.
Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long
time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged
this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads.
"There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." --
Elon Musk
"The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to
the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock
swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery,
it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison
Grumpy old Lee Hart
--
Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Michael Diehr wrote: Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric acid vapor (toxic, corrosive). ?Ventilation is required.
Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require any ventilation, etc. Time for my battery rant. :-) In the best-case scenario, lithiums can be pretty good. But frankly, that's true for lead-acids as well. Energy storage: Lithiums have about twice the energy storage per pound as lead-acids. But they occupy about the same physical space for the same energy storage. So a 12v 100ah battery is about the same size, whether lithium or lead-acid... the lead-acid just weighs more. Safety: Lithium batteries BURN! The failure modes in lithium batteries can easily start a fire; and it's the type of fire that can be very difficult to extinguish. Keep in mind; you are going to use the battery until it fails. And one of a lithium's failure modes is a fire! Lead-acids don't burn. They might leak acid or vent hydrogen; but they won't start a fire except in the most extreme scenarios. If you're worried about venting or hydrogen, use a sealed AGM type lead-acid. Life: The main problem is that people buy mostly on price. Consumer-grade lead-acids *and* lithiums are only likely to last 3-6 years (no matter what the ads claim). Think about the batteries in your laptop or phone; they are lithium, and most of them get weak and fail within 3-6 years. If you want a lead-acid battery to last, don't buy a 12v starting, marine, or RV battery. They are short-life batteries. Buy a pair of 6v golf cart batteries, or an industrial EV battery, or one for big commercial UPS backup power supplies. These can last 10 years or more. I have Deka gels and Enersys AGM batteries that are over 20 years old and still have more than half their original capacity. If you want a lithium to last, forget the mass-market "lead-acid replacements" and Chinese ebay specials. Get a used electric vehicle battery -- the EPA *requires* the manufacturers to warranty them for 10 years, so the quality is far better. Abuse: Most batteries don't die of old age -- they are *murdered* by negligence and abuse. Bad chargers are everywhere (the Magnetek in the EV is a good "bad" example). Running any battery dead is like giving it a heart attack. Even if it survives, it's been damaged. Marketing: It's said that there are liars, damned liars, and battery salesman. Most people's understanding of batteries is so poor that they fall victim to every kind of puffery and exaggeration. They don't test a battery; they just blindly believe what the salesman and old wive's tales say. It's currently fashionable to claim that a lithium battery is "equivalent" to a lead-acid. This is mostly a marketing lie. If you're starting an ICE, all you need is a few seconds of high current. That amounts to less than 1 amphour. Lithiums tend to be better for this type of high-current pulse. So a tiny cheap low-capacity lithium can start an car engine... once. Car batteries have far higher amphour capacities -- not just to start the engine; but also to maintain power for long periods of time. Modern cars have dozens of always-on loads (clocks, radio presets, keyless entry, security systems, electronic odometers, etc). Our Eurovans have even more (CO detectors, etc.) So the batteries are sized to be able to handle all these "vampire" loads for weeks on end, in case the vehicle is not driven. Lead-acids are *good* at providing small amounts of power for a long time -- you get *more* than the rated amphour capacity when discharged this way. A lead-acid "equvalent" battery can't power these loads. "There are few industries with more BS than the battery industry." -- Elon Musk "The storage battery is one of those peculiar things which appeals to the imagination, and no more perfect thing could be desired by stock swindlers. Just as soon as a man gets working on the secondary battery, it brings out his latent capacity for lying." -- Thomas A. Edison Grumpy old Lee Hart -- Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
I believe AGM batteries don't need ventilation while charging either. Still quite heavy, but less expensive than Lithium. Can be turn on it's side too.
On Mon, Mar 1, 2021 at 8:50 AM Michael Diehr < md03@...> wrote: Bernie,?
Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric acid vapor (toxic, corrosive).? Ventilation is required.?
Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require any ventilation, etc.
Mike
I've purchased a battery box, cables and second identical coach battery in order to add the battery in parallel.? I was planning on installing the battery box direclty next to the existing coach battery on the floor of the van in the rear storage? area, and then running the cables through holes I'll drill through the passenger rear enclosed storage area and the existing battery box.
I've read that lead acid batteries can produce explosive gasses and ventilation is needed to prevent a dangerous situation.? The existing coach battery box has a vent hose to the exterior of the? van and seems to be sealed otherwise.? I purchased this box for my setup:??.? That box has fairly large openings under the lid to allow cables into the battery and is therefore not sealed.? Once the box is in place it will be surrounded with stuff in the cargo area and will not have much air movement around it.
Question is...? Is ventilation truly important and what amount is needed?? Could I just run a vent hose, similar is size to the existing coach battery vent hose, from the new box into the old box, and would that be enough?? Even with a connecting vent hose in place, is the fact that this box is not sealed a problem and? should I be looking a buying a different battery box? ?
Thanks!
|
Re: Adding a Second Coach Battery
Bernie,?
Lead acids do vent nasty stuff - hydrogen gas (explosive) and sulfuric acid vapor (toxic, corrosive). ?Ventilation is required.?
Have you considered upgrading to a Lithium battery? ? They are much more expensive in initial purchase, and can't be charged at temperatures below freezing, but on pretty much every other metric they are vastly superior to lead acid batteries and will probably outlive the van. ? One Lithium battery will outperform two lead acids, and they don't require any ventilation, etc.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
I've purchased a battery box, cables and second identical coach battery in order to add the battery in parallel.? I was planning on installing the battery box direclty next to the existing coach battery on the floor of the van in the rear storage? area, and then running the cables through holes I'll drill through the passenger rear enclosed storage area and the existing battery box.
I've read that lead acid batteries can produce explosive gasses and ventilation is needed to prevent a dangerous situation.? The existing coach battery box has a vent hose to the exterior of the? van and seems to be sealed otherwise.? I purchased this box for my setup:??.? That box has fairly large openings under the lid to allow cables into the battery and is therefore not sealed.? Once the box is in place it will be surrounded with stuff in the cargo area and will not have much air movement around it.
Question is...? Is ventilation truly important and what amount is needed?? Could I just run a vent hose, similar is size to the existing coach battery vent hose, from the new box into the old box, and would that be enough?? Even with a connecting vent hose in place, is the fact that this box is not sealed a problem and? should I be looking a buying a different battery box? ?
Thanks!
|
Adding a Second Coach Battery
I've purchased a battery box, cables and second identical coach battery in order to add the battery in parallel.? I was planning on installing the battery box direclty next to the existing coach battery on the floor of the van in the rear storage? area, and then running the cables through holes I'll drill through the passenger rear enclosed storage area and the existing battery box.
I've read that lead acid batteries can produce explosive gasses and ventilation is needed to prevent a dangerous situation.? The existing coach battery box has a vent hose to the exterior of the? van and seems to be sealed otherwise.? I purchased this box for my setup:??.? That box has fairly large openings under the lid to allow cables into the battery and is therefore not sealed.? Once the box is in place it will be surrounded with stuff in the cargo area and will not have much air movement around it.
Question is...? Is ventilation truly important and what amount is needed?? Could I just run a vent hose, similar is size to the existing coach battery vent hose, from the new box into the old box, and would that be enough?? Even with a connecting vent hose in place, is the fact that this box is not sealed a problem and? should I be looking a buying a different battery box?
?
Thanks!
|
Re: Looking for Neutral Safety Switch for 93 Eurovan
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021, 15:29 sam letzring < sletz@...> wrote: I just found one on Amazon- probably available elsewhere too!
Sam
02 EVC
On 2/26/2021 4:42 PM, Maitland Kelly wrote:
> 095 919 823 B
|
Lee Hart
