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You're right. And Westfalia continues to be make and sell Eurovan
campers in Europe.


Ron

Ron-

There was a westfalia camper as well. It was the Eurovan CV

and

was not a US model. It is a short wheelbase van and had the same

pop-

top as the Weekender, but did have the cabinetry and cooking stuff,

as

well as a furnace.

NED
93 Weekender

Hi David,
Glad it is working out for you. We seriously considered buying one of
the Hermans. My concern was storing it, backing it (although it
handles very nicely and, most importantly, the addition of an extra
axle. Ann and I travel a lot in Mexico and the toll roads, while
delightful to drive on, are horrendously expensive. The second axle
doubles them. As far as volume, I suspect the triple play will carry
1/4 to 1/3 as much as the Herman.
John

David Palmerston wrote:

Item #: 595567454
Title: Volkswagen:EUROVAN EUROVAN GL !! EUROVAN GL !! EXCELENT SHAPE !!
Price: $3,500.00
Bids: 0
Starts: Sep-17-01 21:12:00 PDT
URL:


Peace, Love and Serenity,
Madeleine

Went in for the 10k service yesterday. For some strange reason, the van has
developed some small cracks in the plastic lens over the gauges. There's
been a slight problem with the floor in the rear passenger compartment
bowing up slightly, so I pointed that out as well. They told me they'd look
at it.

I get the van back, and the service writer tells me that they've ordered a
new plastic lens and they'll call me when it's in. The floor, I was told,
does that when the rear facing seat on the passenger side is removed. Well,
this is obviously bullshit, as you other MV owners know. The seat rests on
two pins in the metal under the carpeting. It rests none of it's weight on
the carpeted part of the floor at all. But hey, give the mechanic a break,
he's probably never even seen that seat in a van since most people take them
out and rarely use them. So I went home to install the seat, so I could go
back and show them and I notice that my front wheels have a lot more brake
dust than the rear wheels. Well, that's typical, but the 10k mile service is
supposed to include a tire rotation! I call the mechanic back up and I'm
prepared to give him hell for trying to sneak one past me, (and oddly
enough, looking forward to being angry... I think it may have to do with the
stress of recent events) and he completely catches me off guard by admitting
that he made a mistake and forgot to do it. Not only that, he dropped what
he was doing and did it right then. Now, I know he should have done it right
to begin with, but you gotta give him a couple points for fessing up to his
mistake and fixing it as fast as possible. He was also very apologetic, so I
went easy on him.

I forgot all about the floor thing too... I guess I'll bring it up to them
next time.

I hope all you folks had fun at BBTB!

Az
--
AH#56

--- In ev_update@y..., rkbowman@u... wrote:

Winnebago makes the Camper, Westfalia makes the Weekender.

I think you are referring to the MV Weekender. It is an option
package provided by Westfalia for the MV which includes a Pop-up roof
with a 2-person bed, window screens, a small electric refrigerator,
sliding window curtains and a screen for the rear hatch. Sold in
1993, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002.

I have seen no published safety information for the Eurovan more
recent than the crash test data for the 1993 model.

Ron
`97 EVC

Ron-

There was a westfalia camper as well. It was the Eurovan CV and
was not a US model. It is a short wheelbase van and had the same pop-
top as the Weekender, but did have the cabinetry and cooking stuff, as
well as a furnace.

NED
93 Weekender

That scoop directs air over the exhaust header, which has no water jacket
cooled by a fan. In that case, aerodynamics matter, and the scoop is
critical. If you were arguing that removing the belly pan reduces airflow
through that scoop, you might have a point, but that's not the argument you
are making.

Rather, you are arguing that the belly pan is aerodynamically designed to
better evacuate air from behind the radiator itself, thereby increasing the
efficiency of the cooling system. OK, say that's true. What's the effect
of not having the pan? Only one thing......the FANS would have to run
longer to compensate for the missing aerodynamic benefit of the pans.
Again, unless the fans alone were not up to the job of cooling the radiator
sans the aero effects, the pan is irrelevant to anything but fan motor life.

You bring up a good point about the exhaust header scoop because there's an
example of a device that helps directly cools a part itself -- ie, the
header -- by directing cooling airflow RIGHT AT the part. Similarly, with
later model EV's, there are scoops that direct air at brakes and directly
cool them too. Don't mess with that stuff. But the engine itself is cooled
by a water jacket, not airflow. The engine doesn't care about airflow like
brakes and headers care. The engine only cares that its water jacket get
cooled. The water jacket is cooled by big electric fans that are either
adequate by themselves or require ram effects induced by grill design and
belly pans. An EV's fans are plenty adequate to cool the water jacket, and
the direct evidence of that is they cycle off without the pan installed, and
of course my engine's operating temperatures are normal.



----------
From: sanae@...
To: ev_update@...
Subject: [ev_update] Re: Belly pan
Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 9:26 PM


Mike,

I think Joseph is "correct" in that the pan plays an integral part in
managing the air flow.

If you look closely at the underside of the hood (at least for the 93
model) you will note a scope in the middle of the hood that directs
air past the top of engine so it can run down the backside of the
head/block to carry away heat from the exhaust manifold out the
bottom of the EV.

In a similar fashion, the belly pan seals large portions of space
below so as to direct air flow in a specific manner. The air that
runs through the radiator has to have a place to go, or you lose
cooling efficiency because there is reduced air flow through the
radiator. It would not surprise me if they tweaked the pan design
to; 1. help cooling (by having the flow below create a vacuum under
the engine to "suck" the cooler air from the scoop down the
backside), and/or better manage air flow under the EV for better
aerodynamics...

My 2 cents
Jerry

--- In ev_update@y..., "Michael G. McCarthy" <mgmccarthy@c...> wrote:

The EV pan does not direct air toward cooling and as such is not

like the

Renault in this regard. The radiators are entirely in front and

above the

bumper, where their air supply is controlled by the motion of the

vehicle

and by thermostatic fans. Even if the "efficiency" of the system

suffered

(and it doesn't) at worst all that would happen is the fans would

run more

often, and potentially wear out sooner. There would be no long

term damage

to the engine in any case.

Why bother with a pan? It makes a lot of things easier to engineer

because

those things don't then have to be tucked out of harm's way.

Hoses, wiring

harnesses, fittings, bolt-on components, etc can all be placed

wherever they

are placed without any regard to exposure to the elements, and

that's a much

cheaper/easier thing to engineer. Also, the pan contributes to

noise

control so it has its own inherent little benefit. On the

downside, the pan

clearly makes maintenance more difficult as it must often be

removed for

many different procedures.

----------
From: joseph O Becker <geeko6@j...>
To: ev_update@y...
Subject: Re: [ev_update] Belly pan
Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 11:30 AM


The pan has everything to do with colling. Ask a trained

technician for

VW. I use to work on Renault vehicles and was factory trained. We

were

told the pan on Renault vehicles directs the air through the

radiator and

across the engine for more efficiant cooling. Removing it could

cause

long term harm. If it was not necessary, why would the factory add

the

expense?
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Hi Mike -

That's exactly what the button does. I replaced my heater hose last
month along with a couple others. After eight years it, too, was
leaking. FYI - a decent temporary fix, until you can arrange a new
one, is good old duct or electrician's tape. Just wrap it up tight.
Steve

Scott
93 GL

But is this really going to make a difference? Maybe.

And if it does "make a difference" then that difference will simply be that
the electric fans will run more often. It's not going to "make a
difference" in terms of operating temperatures, and the implicit affect on
engine life.

If it were true that the fans on our EVs were marginal (and they surely are
not), and engine cooling therefore required the added ram effects of a belly
pan designed to assist the fans, then your speculation that temps would be
higher without the pan would be true. In that case, absent the pan, the
fans would be running at top speed, the thermostat fully open, and the
engine suffering at higher temps absent the ram effects of the pan, but that
is not the case. I don't have a pan, and my fans cycle on and off just as
they did with the pan installed. My A/C blows very cold, and my fans very
rarely hit the highest speed. My engine operating temperature -- which is
the only thing that matters to the engine -- is no different.

Heat dissipation in our EV is controlled by sensors and fans, and if there
is any collateral effect from aerodynamics it's very marginal, and its only
effect would be to reduce the frequency/duration of the cycling of the
electric fans. At this point we are discussing potential relative fan motor
life, not engine life, which is oblivious to how often the fans cycle.

----------
From: "Donald " <gibbonsnc@...>
To: ev_update@...
Subject: [ev_update] Re: Belly pan
Date: Mon, Sep 17, 2001, 9:24 PM


Its not so much the air flow it low or idle speeds, its air flow at
high speeds that the belly pan does its job.

Any car that moves thru the air will develope an high pressure
directly in front of it. If you stick the raditor right there at the
high pressure area you have only done 1/2 the job. In order for there
to air flow there has to be a high pressure and a low pressure area.
The air will rush from high to low. And thats what the belly pan
does, creates a low pressure area in the engine compartment. By not
allowing the air flow to shoot up right at the area just under the
bumper and by delaying the exit of the air till around where the
front axle center line is you maintain low pressure in the engine
compartment.

But is this really going to make a difference? Maybe. When the
thermostat gets fully open any additional air flow will make lower
coolant temps. With the belly pan in place there will be better air
flow.

I was going to try an experiment to prove this with 2 belly pans, one
is intact and the other has a hole that someone added to try and get
better cooling. But one pan is from an automatic and the other is
from a manual... They will not fit interchangably...


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$39.50 for a 2000 EVC pollen filter in SC. You would think they could design
the housing to use a stock filter.

Well, in that case I'll be doing the more time-consuming option. The hose was
$68, and I don't plan on buying another one soon. It would seem to me that
they would sell the screw separate, but they don't.

Mike Hahn
1993 MV5
Mediterranean Blue
130,000 Miles



In a message dated 9/18/2001 9:07:39 AM Central Daylight Time,
mgmccarthy@... writes:

You bleed the system as the very last step in any procedure involving
replacing cooling system components. You can use the little screw on the
high firewall hose -- careful, it's delicate -- or you can run-the
engine-then-top-off-the-overflow-tank numerous times. Either way you need
to get air OUT of the system to prevent air pockets forming

So do I need to bleed it then I replace the hose? I've had a multitude of
coolant problems in the last year, and I don't want to make things any worse.

Mike


In a message dated 9/18/2001 6:56:11 AM Central Daylight Time,
bleggis4@... writes:

That's exactly what the button does. I replaced my heater hose last
month along with a couple others

We returned two weeks before our trip was scheduled to end trip
because it did not feel appropriate to continue. We may go on
another short 1 or 2-week trip early next month.

OVERHEAD STORAGE UNIT
The overhead storage unit worked wonderfully. The concern that it
might block rear visibility was not a problem. We could see the hood
and grill of cars as they approached but you could not see the road-
rage in their driver's eyes [that may be a blessing]. The soft sides
work better than expected. We packed items we used more often toward
the front that were accessible by pulling down the front edge cloth
without tilting the unit. The unit road smoothly and did not sway
from side-to-side even on rough and winding roads. It also did not
get in the way of us using the lower bunk.

The weight of the unit fully loaded was 25 pounds consisting of 6
pairs of Levis, 10 T-shirts, 2 pairs of shorts, 2 sets of sweats and
several other items. We did not take a suitcase on this trip so
going from driving mode to camping mode was as simple as popping the
top and turning the front seats.

It would be nice to only have to undo only one snap to tilt open the
unit instead of the two that currently hold the prototype in the
closed position.

MAP STORAGE
The map storage was a blessing. Not only did it hold our maps and
travel guides but also the cell phone, sunglasses, pens, and several
other items. I think this was the first trip where we did not step
on maps and guides. I guess it will have to set up a vacuum mold to
make a "real" unit sometime this winter.

CLOSET STRAPS AND FALSE BOTTOM
The closet straps should be mounted slightly higher. Some of the
shorter cloths would migrate out from behind the strap. I may place
another strap about 18-inchs higher to retain the cloths both at the
middle and the bottom of their length. We stored bottles of water in
the closet's false bottom along with a few other items. Only once
did we retriever them so they remained out of our way.

UNDER REAR-SEAT STORAGE BOXES
The trapezoidal side box worked will since it's contents were
accessible by raising the rear seat. The rectangular box was not as
convenient because the front cover had to be removed to access its
contents. It was not the removal of the cover that was the problem
but trying to get the darn thing back on. With a new mounting method
for this cover, this problem may resolve itself. We shuffled a few
items the first day out so only items rarely needed remained in this
box.


OUR NEXT PROJECTS
-Closet Doors
I am going to make a 4-panel door for the closet. This will
provide better access to the closet and shelves. Once the closet
door can be opened fully, the shelves can be extended fully toward
the front.

-Norcold 12-volt thermostat.
We managed to freeze several items on our "long-drive" days. I
think it's time I installed the 12-volt thermostat modification.
Also, a refrigerator thermometer may be in order.

Does anybody know whether my 2000 VW GLS can be rigged up to be towed by my
motorhome? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated............

Cheryl Rose
alakay@...

tolerance (n) - Acceptance and open-mindedness to different practices,
attitudes, and cultures; does not necessarily mean agreement with the
differences.

Someone decided to redesign the new WTC. Look at it closely....LOL

Peace, Love and Serenity,
Madeleine

The coach battery doesn't produce 110 AC power, only 12v DC power. In order to get 110 while you aren't plugged into power at a campground or such you need to buy an inverter which converts 12v DC to 110 AC. The size inverter depends on what you will be using and how much current you will be needing.

Peace, Love and Serenity,
Madeleine

Me too....
Peace, Love and Serenity,
Madeleine

Winnebago makes the Camper, Westfalia makes the Weekender.

I think you are referring to the MV Weekender. It is an option
package provided by Westfalia for the MV which includes a Pop-up roof
with a 2-person bed, window screens, a small electric refrigerator,
sliding window curtains and a screen for the rear hatch. Sold in
1993, 1999, 2000, 2001 and 2002.

I have seen no published safety information for the Eurovan more
recent than the crash test data for the 1993 model.

Ron
`97 EVC

--- In ev_update@y..., rvdalton@y... wrote:

My information indicated that Westfalia EVCs (non-Eurobagos) were
made in 93 (a long model year), then not until 1999, and are not

made

today. I called the non-technical people at VW (Customer Service 1-
800-822-8987) and they said the pop top camper was made every year
including 1993, and still made today. Can anyone confirm which

years

the MV Westfalia camper was made? Also, I believe VW used CFC free
refrigerant (R134a) earlier than US manufacturers. Were the 1993

EVs

CFC free?
Also, no air bag EVs were crash tested, does anyone have any safety
information on them? Thanks in advance.

I have been losing water through the heater hose, I bought a replacement, but
I am wondering what is the purpose of the plastic screw in it. This screw was
the source of my leak in the first place. The parts guy at the local VW
dealer said it might be to bleed the air...but he wasn't sure.

Mike Hahn
1993 MV5
Mediterranean Blue
130,000 Miles

Sorry to hear your experience. Good luck with the fix. We had the
same problem going up a steep hill with the AC on. THe plastic T
broke and we lost all coolant and our Memorial day weekend, all shops
were closed. Fortunately, once the T fixed, everything seems fine.
Advice to all Eurovan owners, think about replacing those plastic T.
There are 2 of them, its a $4 part at the dealer. They don't seem to
age well.


Paul,

Where are these T fittings?

Steve Z

Noise control?
If it was not necessary, why would the factory add the
expense?